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  2. Dabura

    2020 Draft Thread

    If we're going to call all the skater options elite, why not also call the goaltender option elite? https://www.tsn.ca/yaroslav-askarov-goaltender-1.1470370 Admittedly, I'm not a goalie person; I don't know goalies, it's all Greek to me. (@chaps80 is probably the resident authority at the moment.) However, virtually everyone seems to agree that Askarov is arguably the best first-year draft-eligible goalie we've seen in a number of years. To me, that puts Askarov in the conversation re: who we ought to take with our first pick. I don't think it's unreasonable to say Askarov is as good a goalie prospect as each of the realistic skater options is a defenseman/centerman/winger prospect. Goalies are voodoo, so, yeah, choosing one of the skaters would be safer. But a wise man once said safe is death.
  3. krsmith17

    2020 Draft Thread

    Schooled? How so? I'm well aware of our goalie history... I'm making the point that it's more important to have elite players (forwards / defense) and good goaltending, than it is to have an elite goaltender behind good, not great players. Your counter to that was the stacked Wings teams of the early to mid 90's that came up short. The problem with that theory is that while Cheveldae and Essensa may have been bad, Vernon and Osgood weren't that much better. If anything, you're proving my point. The elite, power-house Red Wings teams of the late 90's won, despite good, not great goaltending.
  4. The 91 of Ryans

    2020 Draft Thread

    How does it feel to be schooled in Wings goalie history by Chaps? Smartass.
  5. chaps80

    2020 Offseason

    If the team is gonna spend money on a goalie, may as well get one who can stop pucks. Howard is the equivalent of an empty net at this point.
  6. mackel

    2020 Draft Thread

    Thank god we have that rigged draft lotto to prevent teams from tanking... https://www.nhl.com/news/blackhawks-crawford-ruled-unfit-to-play/c-317401792
  7. Yesterday
  8. krsmith17

    2020 Draft Thread

    This is what I don't get though... Why take such a risk with such a pivotal decision for the organization? This will be our highest pick since Keith Primeau, back in the 1990 draft. We can't afford to mess this up. Askarov has a ton of potential. No one is arguing that. But in my opinion, he's also more likely to bust than Stutzle or Raymond. And even if all three hit their max ceiling, I think either of the forwards would be more valuable to this organization, than the goaltender. Again though, that's just my opinion on the impact of each position in general.
  9. chaps80

    2020 Draft Thread

    Yes, I recall that there were a few of us who said the Mrazek move was stupid. Cause it was. Now Carolina has a solid 28 y/o starting goalie and Detroit has Howard coming off a 2 win season at 36 y/o and will either hang em up or try to ride the pine back to the playoffs elsewhere. But we still have Bernier!! I see your point regarding Askarov. It would be a risk, but I think it's one worth taking. He's not going to fall that far. I think McKenzie had him going 11th the latest. If Yzerman wants him, he has to use the 4th pick. In the end, whatever Yzerman does with the 4th will piss somebody off somewhere. I think Seider was the first high pick since the decline that pretty much everyone is happy with. People are coming around on Zadina now though. Rasmussen is still a toss up. Some think he won't amount to much.
  10. chaps80

    2020 Draft Thread

    Pre-Vernon/Osgood they had the great Bobblin' Bob Essensa and Tim Cheveldae. lol
  11. krsmith17

    2020 Offseason

    I doubt we're getting rid of much dead weight. We're likely not getting a buyout, which could be a good thing, if Yzerman can weaponize his cap space. Nielsen or Abdelkader might get demoted to GR, but probably not. And honestly, contract aside, I doubt Brome or Suter would be *much* of an upgrade over either. They're younger, so they have that going for them, but I'd say at best they're bottom six wingers, which we have more than enough of. If any player wants to come here on a two-way, league minimum contract, sure, but I doubt any of these players will make any meaningful impact on the team. In short... Sure, why not...
  12. krsmith17

    2020 Draft Thread

    Again, nevermind hindsight. Nevermind the players I mentioned. Whoever we draft, we're hoping will be the best player on our team. Better than Larkin. Better than Mantha. Better than Zadina. Better than Seider. If you had to choose, would you want that player to be a player or a goalie? For me, and this just comes down to personal preference, I'd pick the player every time. I would never build a team around a goaltender, no matter how highly touted. Yeah, obviously we have to pick the right player, but again, in my opinion, there will be at least a couple players available at 4, that will end up being more valuable to their team than Askarov will be to his. I just don't value goaltending as much as some I guess... It's obviously much harder to find elite players (non-goalies) outside of the top 5-10 of any draft. Logic says we should use those picks on players... There are almost always number one calibre goaltenders available beyond the first couple rounds. Again, logic... And like I said, I just hope Yzerman doesn't...
  13. LeftWinger

    2020 Draft Thread

    Yes, I would be pretty upset if he drafted Askarov with our #4. Too many NHL caliber skaters to choose from. I am sticking with Byfield dropping! Aim high! If he does drop, then losing the #1 and having to pick 4th won't hurt so bad....except when we find out who gets the #1...
  14. nyqvististhefuture

    2020 Draft Thread

    Yes obviously its kopitar but like i said hindsight helps everything .... could easily been price or pouliot? Price or brule? Price or skille? Price or setoguchi? Etc... its nice now cause we all know how kopiar turned out but all those guys were picked before him and turned into busts while the “sure” goalie prospect was a star Again not saying raymond etc.. will suck maybe only one or raymond holtz rossi etc.... will be the true #1 line guy while askarov stays the “sure” #1 goalie ppl are projecting ...its up to us to pick the right forward though to make it worthwhile or we might end up looking back thinking what if Like you said not many goalies been picked high since price , ppl were going nuts over knight and he looks to be the real deal as well ... obviously we have to wait and see what happens when they get to the nhl but theres only a handful of guys people have talked about being a top 5 goalie pick . Askarov has been at the top pretty much everywhere hes played minus that tournament anyways like i said it just wouldnt shock me to see us taking him but im all for lucas raymond https://hockeybuzz.com/blog/Jeremy--Laura/Advantage---Europe-Yzerman-talks-pre-draft-scouting/275/106413 Nice to see he acknowledged raymond and holtz, best thing for us might be raymond and holtz going nuts in those 6 shl games prior to the draft .... and nice to see him mention germany and finland where stevie scouted hopefully he likes jarventie’s upside
  15. krsmith17

    2020 Draft Thread

    Like I said, never mind what the players have done, because in hindsight, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that would rather Price. Kopitar or Price in a vacuum, who would you rather build your team around? For me it's Kopitar, even if he were a winger. What makes you so confident that Askarov will be a stud number one goaltender, but anyone else available tops out as a 2nd line center / winger? Stutzle could fall. He absolutely has 1C potential. Raymond will likely be available. He absolutely has 1W potential. I'd even say that Perfetti, Rossi and Holtz could have top line potential. Drysdale definitely has top pair potential. I think all of those players becoming top line talents is no less likely than Askarov becoming a stud number one goalie that you build your team around...
  16. nyqvististhefuture

    2020 Offseason

    Maybe ,but considering how s*** we are he might be a decent option especially if he still hs chemistry with bertuzzi and fabbri . We just need to get rid of some deadweight
  17. nyqvististhefuture

    2020 Draft Thread

    Alot of people gave the habs s*** at the time for picking price at 5 though, you only know the right moves years later . Obviously picking a #1 center is huge but if the rest of your team is crap then it makes no difference . kings also had quick who was a stud #1 goalie for many years and a #1 dman in doughty etc... price literally has had f*** all to deal with and a bunch of smurfs on the team We can end up with a good 2nd winger or 2 c or a stud #1 goalie , who would you rather have? As much as i want raymond and want him right now if someone told me he’d end up being a 2nd line player popping 50 pts and askarov is competing for vezina’s yearly id change my mind and take askarov at 4 but we dont have that knowledge till later on again , stevie’s picking so nothing that happens on draft day should shock anyone (ill still smash s*** if i hear perfetti’s name)
  18. krsmith17

    2020 Offseason

    It's never a bad thing to take a chance on a free agent, but chances are, like Brome, he's probably another minor league acquisition for some team.
  19. krsmith17

    2020 Draft Thread

    Yeah, without Vernon / Osgood, the Wings may have never won those back-to-back Cups... Again, it's not because I don't think Askarov is the real deal, it's because I don't believe that's the smart way to build a team. Build around a core of elite players, not an elite goalie. 2005 was a pretty weak draft, outside of Crosby, Price and Kopitar. Crosby obviously went 1st, Price went 5th, and Kopitar went 11th. Who would you rather have on your team, likely as your best player for over a decade, Price or Kopitar? For me it's Kopitar, and it's not even close. And not just because Kopitar has two Cups and Price has zero. I'd take the top center (or winger, or defenseman) in a draft, over the top goalie, ever. single. time... Even if Askarov becomes a goalie of prime Price calibre (odds are, he won't), I'd still say at least one or two of the forwards available at 4, will be more valuable to their team, than Askarov will be to his team.
  20. nyqvististhefuture

    2020 Offseason

    Pius suter is coming to north america ,24 and top scorer in swiss league ... we added brome and have a ton of kids fighting for spots and more importantly horrible contracts to get rid of but should we be considering taking a chance? i wouldnt have but i seen he played with bertuzzi and fabbri at guelph .... could be something to consider
  21. nyqvististhefuture

    2020 Draft Thread

    I can understand why youd be hesitant but i do think hes the real deal and can totally see yzerman pick him at 4 or trade back and taking him ... im all for lucas raymond but i wouldnt be flipping s*** unlike if it was rossi (sorry dont want a smurf who’ll be tossed around in the playoffs)or a perfetti(if we take him its only cause his buddies told him to ) lIke i said our division is extremely tough and someone else might even add lafraniere so i can totally see yzerman thinking we have to build a strong d core and a top goalie to fight back Hopefully we add more assets to move up ,unless yzerman goes nuts and trades mantha for a top 10 pick and take askarov .... im sure loads of wings fans would love that lol
  22. The 91 of Ryans

    2020 Draft Thread

    Yzerman played on stacked teams in the early to mid 90s that were undermined by baaaaaad goaltending. Just sayin
  23. krsmith17

    2020 Draft Thread

    I just hope Yzerman doesn't want him at 4...
  24. nyqvististhefuture

    2020 Draft Thread

    Ya dont expect askarov at 25 and later , if we want him we have to draft him at 4 or trade back .... OR like you said take on a bad contract for a 1st and package more assets to get into 8-14 range but i dont know of anyone who would do a 1st from this years draft Canucks with eriksson come to mind but i believe their first was already dealt? Anyways as amazing as it would be to draft raymond and askarov i cant see it happening sadly
  25. nyqvististhefuture

    2020 Draft Thread

    Ya hard pass on holtby
  26. krsmith17

    2020 Draft Thread

    1. I'm in agreement that we should have kept Mrazek over Howard. I believe you and I were two of the few people that were vocal on here about how dumb that was. In hindsight, I'd still say we should have gotten rid of Howard in favor of Mrazek. 2. I think you missed the entire point of my post... I don't care what our track record has been in drafting goalies. No team has a great track record in drafting goalies. The reason for that, they're way too unpredictable. Even "can't miss franchise" type goalies taken in the 1st round don't always pan out. I think Askarov will pan out. Maybe not as well as some think... I just think there are bigger needs, and better ways to build a team, than taking a goaltender 4th overall. The teams that have drafted a stud goalie, for the most part, have lucked into it, most of them coming outside of the 1st round... On average, teams pick a goalie every year or two. Most teams have a similar track record as the Wings, hitting on one or two in the past 15-20 years. If it were up to me, I'd take a goalie every two years (at most), and I wouldn't pick one until the 3rd round (at the earliest), unless one dropped dramatically into the 2nd round. Chances are, Askarov will go in the 10-20 range, but if he somehow drops to 32, I'd be all for Yzerman taking him there. Hell, even if he's still there at pick 25, I'd be okay with Yzerman packaging another pick to move up from 32. At 4, I'd be pissed. I'm hoping for Stutzle or Raymond. I'd be okay with Perfetti, Rossi, Holtz, Drysdale. I'd be pissed with Askarov.
  27. chaps80

    2020 Draft Thread

    Of all the goalies that have been drafted by the Wings in two decades, two worked out as NHL starters (not the best drafting record. current young prospects we obv don't know their end potential yet). Howard and Mrazek. Howard is 36 and coming off a huge 2 win season and is not returning. Mrazek could have still been around and been the number 1 had he been allowed to work through his issues instead of being traded for a s***ty 4th pick because the older Howard was playing better at the time and Kenny didn't wanna up the 4 mill (then brought in Bernier for 3 mill). He's doing perfectly fine in Carolina and is still young. Anyways, that ship has sailed, and we have no prospects in the pipeline even remotely ready. Askarov is no fifth round crapshoot. He's got legit star franchise goalie potential. I doubt the team makes the playoffs next season either, they will have another shot at a great forward in the early first round. UFA goalie stop gaps are fine for a couple seasons, but having someone like Askarov drafted and developing in the Wings system in the meantime would ease the long term worries.
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