St.Paul chosen as new Hockeytown USA

[OsGOD 3]

Actually they can use the title hockeytown... they just can use our lettering style ... Every town that has hockey in it is fair game to be called hockeytown... i guess thats why i just don't care about it. Yay it was fun but its just a slogan... nothing more!

I still think center ice looked damn fine with just the logo on it.

maybe i stand corrected... any lawyers out there give a for sure answer as to what exactly is Trademarked here:

http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=...;entry=75007595

Edited December 10, 2007 by OsGOD

[96Homer 0]

That is cool, I'm just tired of hearing about the low attendance is the only reason why they wanna name a new city hockeytown. How about giving the title to a city that deserves it? Not by just how many seats they sell!

[betterREDthandead 58]

That is cool, I'm just tired of hearing about the low attendance is the only reason why they wanna name a new city hockeytown. How about giving the title to a city that deserves it? Not by just how many seats they sell!

Or, how about it's not a title to be given out willy-nilly by sportswriters who fancy themselves crowners of kings? How 'bout it's ours because we say it's ours, because we thought of the idea (OK, by we I mean the Wings and their marketing department) and because of everything the Wings have achieved?

[StormJH1 231]

Hm...I hate to get involved in this, because it's pretty stupid, but I do have one question:

How does a city/state with a historically mediocre hockey team (and an inability to KEEP a hockey team), with no storied past (what, the North Stars?) suddenly become Hockeytown, not to mention, take that "title" away from a town with a consistently AMAZING hockey team, a great following, and a long, long, storied past that chronicles the rise of the NHL itself? Oh, because they're not selling out every game this season? Holy crap, people knew that couldn't carry on forever.

I am a native Detroiter, born and raised, and still a loyal Wings fan, though I now live in the Twin Cities metro area of Minnesota. I argue with people here all the time about which state has the better fans, but recently, I've been forced to admit that Minnesota does have the better fans now and better prospects for the future.

Detroit shouldn't have to take down their slogan or anything b/c it is what it is: a marketing slogan. What Yahoo! and SI have publicly acknowledged is what every Wings fan knows in their heart: You can't be the example for an NHL fan base in America when you can't even come close to filling your arena for critical regular season home games and even in the later rounds of the playoffs.

The Wild have sold out practically every game in their existence, and they will continue to do so. One poster here said that "there aren't any other good teams in Minnesota," but that simply isn't true. The Vikings are HUGE here, and they occupy a greater market share than the Lions ever will. The T-Wolves are down now, but when they're competitive, they get more bandwagon coverage from local media than the Wild do. And the Twins have a very strong following, and are certainly higher profile than the Wild in this market.

The State of Hockey slogan here goes much deeper than the Wild and the NHL. If you didn't live here, you wouldn't even understand that the level of interest in the Golden Gophers and even the friggin High School Hockey tournament is stronger than the interest that half of NHL cities have in their pro franchise. Not to mention that people here actually PLAY the sport, and that high school hockey in Minnesota has some of the religious qualities that high school football does in Texas.

The North Stars left this state two decades ago because of the legal troubles of their owner. That's not an indictment on the fans, they didn't have anything to do with it. Yes, the Wings are a storied Original Six franchise, but they also play in a dumpy building downtown, and people are apparently tired of seeing them play live. (Don't even bring up the whole argument about the economy...the Tigers are playing 81 home games this year, and I'd be stunned if their attendance doesn't increase again).

I love the Wings and they're a better team to watch. And it's a great fan base. But this poll is about "what have you done with me lately," a concept Wings fans understand pretty well. This fanbase is spoiled and pouting right now because we don't have Hall of Famers on our 4th line anymore. It's a shame that we have the best team in hockey, and our attendance is an embarassment. Minnesotans understand the game on a deeper level than many of the bandwagon Detroit fans, and they are deserving of this recognition. Maybe if more people outside this message board appreciated what they have, and if the Wings build a better facility, Detroit will take the title back in a few years.

That is cool, I'm just tired of hearing about the low attendance is the only reason why they wanna name a new city hockeytown. How about giving the title to a city that deserves it? Not by just how many seats they sell!

I try to explain to people here in Minnesota that the "Hockeytown" slogan is not meant as a slam on other cities, but rather a celebration of Detroit and it's appreciation of the Wings.

But the Wings have had that slogan for over a decade...you have to ask yourself, "Why is it coming into question NOW?" You didn't have multiple national media outlets calling out Detroit in the late 90's, or even in 2002, calling for them to give up that self-imposed title. The attendance is the easiest variable to measure, but it's the loss of energy that's the biggest concern.

Rather than apologize for our fanbase, I think that people like the LGW'ers should be the ones who are the MOST angry. I moved to Minnesota, and do everything I can to watch Wings games on Vs. or NBC, and it makes me sick to see a half-empty building, or call my friends back home to find out that they don't really care about the team anymore.

Instead of making fun of St. Paul, or calling Michael Farber an idiot, why not go to a game? Or take someone you know to their first hockey game?

[Jwo 7]

I am a native Detroiter, born and raised, and still a loyal Wings fan, though I now live in the Twin Cities metro area of Minnesota.

Why don't you live in Detroit still.

[Guest jaytan]

Why would they name St. Paul and not the Twin Cities? It's not like they've got anything Minneapolis doesn't (besides the Wild's arena).

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

If their support is that high for teams that aren't that good, that's a credit to the fans. That's pretty respectable.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[StormJH1 231]

Why don't you live in Detroit still.

Without going into too much detail, I don't live in Detroit anymore because my fiance and I wanted to find good jobs, and because we wanted to live near a nicer downtown.

I've still got love for Detroit and Detroiters, I just decided that it would be best for me to live and work somewhere else, and the Twin Cities are great.

As for why they named St. Paul and not the Twin Cities, I don't know. The North Stars actually played in Bloomington, which is the suburb where the Mall of America now is, not Minneapolis. The lot where the North Stars played is now an IKEA, just like the Mall is built out of the stadium that used to house the Twins and Vikings.

The Wild play in St. Paul, but since the two downtowns are practically one downtown area, it would've made more sense to refer to the Twin Cities. St. Paul itself is notorious around here for being a place of business that has absolutely no night life, as contrasted with Minneapolis which is much more metropolitan. However, the Wild have prompted a bit of a resurgance for that city, and there is a healthy bar district that has sprung up b/c of Wild games and other concerts events in the XCel Energy Center, which is a great facility.

The real problem Detroit has is one that people are even more reluctant to talk about, and it's not just a sports one. There's a serious disconnect between downtown and suburb, and a lot of suburbanites would avoid Detroit completely if they could. When the product is so good that they can't help themselves, they show up to games, as was the case in the late-90's, or this past year with the Tigers. That's why outsiders view Detroit as a bandwagon city, which I think is unfair, because ALL cities are bandwagon. The decision to go downtown is just more complicated for Detroiters, who simaltaneously love and hate the place they live, but get mad if anyone else expresses the latter sentiment

[arcticpicasso 0]

I'm still surprised to hear that ticket sales are still slow. Seems like every game I try to get more than two seat together at a reasonable price, no luck. Still stings to hear Minnesota wants our moniker, next they will want our USA hockey program too.

The real problem Detroit has is one that people are even more reluctant to talk about, and it's not just a sports one. There's a serious disconnect between downtown and suburb, and a lot of suburbanites would avoid Detroit completely if they could. When the product is so good that they can't help themselves, they show up to games, as was the case in the late-90's, or this past year with the Tigers. That's why outsiders view Detroit as a bandwagon city, which I think is unfair, because ALL cities are bandwagon. The decision to go downtown is just more complicated for Detroiters, who simaltaneously love and hate the place they live, but get mad if anyone else expresses the latter sentiment

I would have to agree. I live in Ann Arbor and getting downtown for a wings game can be a pain and parking is nuts. I actually find it easier to go to see the Tigers play since there are more parking lots actually around Comerica Park. I can imagine other arenas around the country have this problem as well but starkness of downtown Detroit leaves you with that get in and get out sense.

[betterREDthandead 58]

The real problem Detroit has is one that people are even more reluctant to talk about, and it's not just a sports one. There's a serious disconnect between downtown and suburb, and a lot of suburbanites would avoid Detroit completely if they could. When the product is so good that they can't help themselves, they show up to games, as was the case in the late-90's, or this past year with the Tigers. That's why outsiders view Detroit as a bandwagon city, which I think is unfair, because ALL cities are bandwagon. The decision to go downtown is just more complicated for Detroiters, who simaltaneously love and hate the place they live, but get mad if anyone else expresses the latter sentiment

Proof positive that we have a real Detroiter here. Something that outsiders don't understand.

Sadly it took 1 man 20 years to completely ruin Detroit's reputation, and it'll take thousands of people at least twice that long to restore it.

[StormJH1 231]

I'm still surprised to hear that ticket sales are still slow. Seems like every game I try to get more than two seat together at a reasonable price, no luck. Still stings to hear Minnesota wants our moniker, next they will want our USA hockey program too.

Minnesota doesn't want to call themselves Hockeytown--it was Sports Illustrated and some other columnists (Yahoo!) that came out and said "You know, Detroit calls itself 'Hockeytown', but we should really give that title to a different city". The SI author's name is Michael Farber, I heard a 20-minute interview with him on Minnesota AM radio. He strongly considered Buffalo and Philadelphia too, but ended up with St. Paul b/c of the Wild, the excellent facility (which he considers the best rink in hockey), and the culture of hockey throughout the state.

I don't think Minnesotans actually care what Detroit wants to call itself, and people here have HUGE respect for the Red Wings, since many fans made the Wings their adopted team after the North Stars left in '93. What the Wild really want is to get out of the Central Division and get back their traditional rivalries with teams like Detroit, Chicago, and St. Louis. I went to a Wings/Wild game and 30% of the fans were Red Wings fans, and not all of them were Detroit transplants! Some of them were native Minnesotans who just like the Red Wings, and have been fans of the sport their whole lives. But the Wild have a pretty rabid fanbase of their own too...

The USA hockey program in Ann Arbor is great, and a lot of Minnesota kids actually go out to that program and then come back to play for the Gophers or at other levels. The high school hockey programs here really are the heart of what makes MN a great hockey state...Sidney Crosby played at Shattuck-St. Mary's in 02-03, which is kinda like a high school/hockey academy. It's a different type of hockey fan here, and I didn't get that at first. In Detroit, everything is kinda funneled through the Red Wings, but in Minnesota, there's a lot more "options" to choose from. The Gophers have a full Fox Sports Net contract, and every one of their games is televised with the same broadcast style you'd see for a Twins or Tigers game on FSN.

[eva unit zero 271]

The North Stars left this state two decades ago because of the legal troubles of their owner. That's not an indictment on the fans, they didn't have anything to do with it.

Yes, it had nothing to do with the fact that the average attendance per game for the North Stars was often in the 7000-11000 range. The Wings are still averaging better than 18,000 per game...it's far from a half empty arena.

[StormJH1 231]

Yes, it had nothing to do with the fact that the average attendance per game for the North Stars was often in the 7000-11000 range. The Wings are still averaging better than 18,000 per game...it's far from a half empty arena.

You're right that the North Stars attendance was down following the '91 Cup loss to Pittsburgh, but that was a smaller, older building, and it's not like every team that has attendance issues automatically collapses and gets sold. The owner was in the middle of a PR crisis and had a sexual harassment suit filed against him. He wanted a fresh start and he wanted to get out of Minnesota, where he was becoming very unpopular.

In any event, this whole "Hockeytown" thing isn't meant to be a lifetime achievement award. Just as it wouldn't be fair to hold the Dead Wings era against Detroit fans today, it's pretty much irrelevant what happened with the North Stars (a completely different franchise) almost 20 years ago. The SI author (Michael Farber) said that some of the Philadelphia Flyers reps believed they should win the award because the team was terrible in the early 90's and they still sold out or came close to it for most of those games. But again, not a lifetime acheivement award...

[StormJH1 231]

And, by the way, if the question were: Which U.S. fanbase has had the best hockey fans over the past 15 years, my answer is "Detroit," hands down. I love this club, and this organization. Growing up watching so many great Wings teams makes following the Wild or any other club feel like JV hockey. There's just something less professional, and less entertaining about everyone else, and that's not just homerism.

But Wild fans care about their team right now, they're showing up, and the whole city deserves the recognition it's getting. Name another expansion team since the early 90's that you can definitively say made the NHL better. Atlanta? Columbus? Nashville? Florida? You'd probably have to go back to Tampa Bay, Anaheim, or Ottawa, and even those 3 teams were disasters for long periods of time.

[eva unit zero 271]

You're right that the North Stars attendance was down following the '91 Cup loss to Pittsburgh, but that was a smaller, older building, and it's not like every team that has attendance issues automatically collapses and gets sold. The owner was in the middle of a PR crisis and had a sexual harassment suit filed against him. He wanted a fresh start and he wanted to get out of Minnesota, where he was becoming very unpopular.

In any event, this whole "Hockeytown" thing isn't meant to be a lifetime achievement award. Just as it wouldn't be fair to hold the Dead Wings era against Detroit fans today, it's pretty much irrelevant what happened with the North Stars (a completely different franchise) almost 20 years ago. The SI author (Michael Farber) said that some of the Philadelphia Flyers reps believed they should win the award because the team was terrible in the early 90's and they still sold out or came close to it for most of those games. But again, not a lifetime acheivement award...

I wasn't claiming attendance disqualifies the Twin Cities. I was correcting your statement that the Stars had good fan support. The Minnesota North Stars absolutely did NOT have good fan support. Here's some perspective...Washington is currently last in the league with an average 13,200 attendance. That number would have been the best year for the Minnesota North Stars. Minnesota's BEST year was worse than any existing team pulls in now. Nashville has gotten tons more fan support than the North Stars (or Jets or Whalers, for that matter) did, yet people feel they should lose their team for lack of an support. You think Minnesota should be the State of Hockey? I disagree. Michigan has the longest tradition of professional hockey in the world. The first professional hockey league was based in northern Michigan. USA Hockey's national team is based in Michigan. Two of the nation's best and most historic college hockey programs are in Michigan, as is what has been by far the most dominant professional club. So Detroit hasn't sold out every game this year,,,if how filled to capacity the NHL arena is is the guide to Hockeytown, that would make Anaheim hockeytown right now with 106%.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

The fact that the Wild aren't that good (maybe 6-8 seed my guess) and play a boring stlye like the trap is a credit to the fans.

[RedWingsFreak17 0]

COUGHTHATSBULLCRAPCOUGH...Excuse Me I Had Something In My Throat...Detrot Will Be For Now & Ever Be Known As HOCKEYTOWN!!

[55fan 5,133]

I live on the ND-MN border. When I got my car, I tried at least 30 vanity plates along the Red Wings theme before I found one that wasn't taken in ND. On the other hand, my friend's husband had no trouble getting TWOLVES in MN. FSN North carried the UND game rather than the Wild-Wings game the other night.

Is MN big on hockey? Sure, but the Vikes are bigger. I've seen Wings gear all over Fargo-Moorhead, but only 2 Wild shirts.

Whoever said that we should be Hockeynation was right. Consider my dad who followed the Wings faithfully during the Dead Era without the aid of cable TV, internet or Detroit newspapers. That's a fan. That's the kind of fans we are. Red to the end.

So some reporter wants to sell his work and get some national attention. He got it. I really can't see St. Paul taking this and running with it. It'll die down soon enough, and Hockeytown will still be Detroit.

[eva unit zero 271]

And, by the way, if the question were: Which U.S. fanbase has had the best hockey fans over the past 15 years, my answer is "Detroit," hands down. I love this club, and this organization. Growing up watching so many great Wings teams makes following the Wild or any other club feel like JV hockey. There's just something less professional, and less entertaining about everyone else, and that's not just homerism.

But Wild fans care about their team right now, they're showing up, and the whole city deserves the recognition it's getting. Name another expansion team since the early 90's that you can definitively say made the NHL better. Atlanta? Columbus? Nashville? Florida? You'd probably have to go back to Tampa Bay, Anaheim, or Ottawa, and even those 3 teams were disasters for long periods of time.

What exactly has Minnesota done to make the NHL better? If you mean in terms of the on ice product, two of the teams you mentioned have won the Cups, two more have gone to the finals. If you mean in terms of the off ice product, that's because you have a solid fan base that felt they were entitled to a team no matter what, so when the Gunds tried to move the club and the NHL blocked it, and then Green moved it after being the savior of Minnesota hockey, Minnesotans realized they had to go to games if they wanted to be guaranteed of keeping their team once they got one back.

[Jwo 7]

Minnesota doesn't want to call themselves Hockeytown--it was Sports Illustrated and some other columnists (Yahoo!) that came out and said "You know, Detroit calls itself 'Hockeytown', but we should really give that title to a different city". The SI author's name is Michael Farber, I heard a 20-minute interview with him on Minnesota AM radio. He strongly considered Buffalo and Philadelphia too, but ended up with St. Paul b/c of the Wild, the excellent facility (which he considers the best rink in hockey), and the culture of hockey throughout the state.

I don't think Minnesotans actually care what Detroit wants to call itself, and people here have HUGE respect for the Red Wings, since many fans made the Wings their adopted team after the North Stars left in '93. What the Wild really want is to get out of the Central Division and get back their traditional rivalries with teams like Detroit, Chicago, and St. Louis. I went to a Wings/Wild game and 30% of the fans were Red Wings fans, and not all of them were Detroit transplants! Some of them were native Minnesotans who just like the Red Wings, and have been fans of the sport their whole lives. But the Wild have a pretty rabid fanbase of their own too...

The USA hockey program in Ann Arbor is great, and a lot of Minnesota kids actually go out to that program and then come back to play for the Gophers or at other levels. The high school hockey programs here really are the heart of what makes MN a great hockey state...Sidney Crosby played at Shattuck-St. Mary's in 02-03, which is kinda like a high school/hockey academy. It's a different type of hockey fan here, and I didn't get that at first. In Detroit, everything is kinda funneled through the Red Wings, but in Minnesota, there's a lot more "options" to choose from. The Gophers have a full Fox Sports Net contract, and every one of their games is televised with the same broadcast style you'd see for a Twins or Tigers game on FSN.

Too bad the Wild could not get a sweet deal like that.

[toby91_ca 620]

I wasn't claiming attendance disqualifies the Twin Cities. I was correcting your statement that the Stars had good fan support. The Minnesota North Stars absolutely did NOT have good fan support. Here's some perspective...Washington is currently last in the league with an average 13,200 attendance. That number would have been the best year for the Minnesota North Stars. Minnesota's BEST year was worse than any existing team pulls in now. Nashville has gotten tons more fan support than the North Stars (or Jets or Whalers, for that matter) did, yet people feel they should lose their team for lack of an support. You think Minnesota should be the State of Hockey? I disagree. Michigan has the longest tradition of professional hockey in the world. The first professional hockey league was based in northern Michigan. USA Hockey's national team is based in Michigan. Two of the nation's best and most historic college hockey programs are in Michigan, as is what has been by far the most dominant professional club. So Detroit hasn't sold out every game this year,,,if how filled to capacity the NHL arena is is the guide to Hockeytown, that would make Anaheim hockeytown right now with 106%.

Not arguing against Detroit being hockeytown, but using the logic that they have the longest tradition of professional hockey in the world doesn't quite work for me since they will always have that unless they lose professional hockey alltogether, does that mean that they will always be the most deserving of hockeytown?

In terms of Minnesota attendance for the North Stars, I'm not sure it is relevant (we are talking about now, not the past), but just to dispute your claim that 13,200 would have been their best ever, data I have shows that in the 1992 and 1993 seasons, they averaged 13,447 and 13,910 respectively. It's also difficult to compare to today's attendances as well as I am not sure what capacity was, for all I know, capacity was 13,500, which makes those numbers look good. Their attendance was awful in 1991 and low in 1990. I don't have data earlier than that currently.

[vinnyfan4life 0]

Anything that might get rid of the Hockeytown song is good in my book!

lol man thats a good song lol

[RedFX 48]

I'd like to see St. Paul fill 20,000 seats with ticket prices starting at 100 bucks.

[eva unit zero 271]

Not arguing against Detroit being hockeytown, but using the logic that they have the longest tradition of professional hockey in the world doesn't quite work for me since they will always have that unless they lose professional hockey alltogether, does that mean that they will always be the most deserving of hockeytown?

In terms of Minnesota attendance for the North Stars, I'm not sure it is relevant (we are talking about now, not the past), but just to dispute your claim that 13,200 would have been their best ever, data I have shows that in the 1992 and 1993 seasons, they averaged 13,447 and 13,910 respectively. It's also difficult to compare to today's attendances as well as I am not sure what capacity was, for all I know, capacity was 13,500, which makes those numbers look good. Their attendance was awful in 1991 and low in 1990. I don't have data earlier than that currently.

Alright, how aout this one. The Wings averaged attendance around 16000 in their worst season ever. The North Stars averaged less than 8000 in their best season ever. And you're right...13,200 would have only been about the third or fourth best season for the north stars for attendance...still proves my point.

[toby91_ca 620]

I'd like to see St. Paul fill 20,000 seats with ticket prices starting at 100 bucks.

As far as I can tell, not a single team in the history of the league has done that.