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jason_0931

I Hope We Trade Kronwall

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No way!

He was excellent in the AHL,he has overshadowed everyone when playing in the international level (including Lidstrom).

I hope they'd remember to ask Schneider if he's prepared to play 10 more years before they'll trade Kronwall.

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I am really not a big fan of Kronwall. He is not good defensively and I have yet to see his offensive side everyone has been so high on and I can't stand when people call him little Nick. He is no where near Lidstrom's skill level.

What does everyone else think of Kronwall? Trade or No Trade?

You seem like a savvy young hockey viewer.

I think you're keen enough, brilliant enough and sensitive enough to notice aspects of the game that 98% of the general public does not even notice.

Just a hunch.

Serious sidenote: you DO realize that you compared the guy to possibly the best defenseman to ever play the game, don't you?

What am I saying? Of course you realize that. You are keen, brilliant and sensitive.

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here's TSN's scouting report on him

http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=21...e=nhl-red_wings

only a true homer would say he's lived up to his billing. "sound def. position, wealth of offensive potential, top four defenseman"

if , could , would, should don't equal has done at the NHL level

TSN's report makes him look to be exactly what he is, no one is saying he's lived up to all of his potential. You wanting him gone becuase he hasn't lived up to it yet is just as silly as what you say people are claiming that he is.

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TSN's report makes him look to be exactly what he is,

exactly what he is? He's done absolutley nothing at the NHL level, when the Wings start playing in the AHL he'll become more vaulable , until then it was stupid to tie up a guy with his output for so long.

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exactly what he is? He's done absolutley nothing at the NHL level, when the Wings start playing in the AHL he'll become more vaulable , until then it was stupid to tie up a guy with his output for so long.

Done absolutely nothing? What does that mean exactly? What do you want him to do? As long as Schneider and Lidstrom are here, he won't ever lead the team in points. As long as we have hall of famers Lidstrom and Chelios here, he won't ever be the best defensive defensemen on the team.

If you actually would take the time to understand the contract, you'd realize it's not so 'stupid'. The Wings have one other defensemen in the entire system who has top 4 potential.

He's 3rd on the team in IT per game, behind Schneider and Lidstrom, he's created chances, but has been snakebitten all year.

Edited by Heaton

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exactly what he is? He's done absolutley nothing at the NHL level, when the Wings start playing in the AHL he'll become more vaulable , until then it was stupid to tie up a guy with his output for so long.

So the Blue shouldn't keep Jackman either?

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read the scouting report, he hasn't lived up to his potential on both sides of the puck, that's clear as day.

Did you read the scouting report? It says nothing like that. Obviously he hasn't reached his potential, I've already said that. Should players who have only reached their maximum potential be given 5 year contracts?

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read the scouting report, he hasn't lived up to his potential on both sides of the puck, that's clear as day.

It's laughable that you base your opinions on TSN scouting reports.

Here's a gem of theirs:

Assets: Has savvy offensive ability and overall polish. Is a deft playmaker with a little bit of a mean streak.

Flaws: Isn't very big by today's NHL standards, and is vulnerable against physical defensemen.

Career potential: Third line winger.

Chris Kunitz.

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Did you read the scouting report? It says nothing like that. Obviously he hasn't reached his potential, I've already said that. Should players who have only reached their maximum potential be given 5 year contracts?

I'm beginning to wonder if you did

Assets Skates well and is usually in sound defensive position. Has a wealth of offensive potential. Hits anybody that moves.

Flaws Must prove capable of handling big power forwards in front of the net. His lack of size has already led to a myriad of injury woes. Career potential Top four defenseman.

I guess you're right, he's at least lived up to the forwards in front of the net and injury woes part of the report.

It's laughable that you base your opinions on TSN scouting reports.

Here's a gem of theirs:

Chris Kunitz.

it's the easiest one to find, and quite accurate,

so are you telling me the Wings report read : "good stay at home d-man, little offensive production but won't miss many games because he's tough as nails, potential top 6 d-man"

it's laughable that you can't take off the red colored glasses and just admit he hasn't come close to being the player NHL brass envisioned

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See, here's that "potential" word floating around again, which basically means if they have been given a positive "scouting report" by who knows who in regards to their "potential", they should be given extra time and lattitude with regards to development than players who weren't so fortunate (for whatever reason) to be labeled as having as much "potential".

Just admit it, it's a crapshoot either way. Who knows or can determine right now, (or early on when these guys are usually scouted), how good Kronwall, or Lebda for that matter, will become based on someone's personal opinion of what they think the player will achieve. Talk about a glass ceiling! And, what if Lebda turns out to be the better player? What does that say for the criteria used by these "scouts" to determine "potential".

Just seems silly to me.

peace,

esteef

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so are you telling me the Wings report read : "good stay at home d-man, little offensive production but won't miss many games because he's tough as nails, potential top 6 d-man"

it's laughable that you can't take off the red colored glasses and just admit he hasn't come close to being the player NHL brass envisioned

When did I say anything about Kronwall? I think he's overrated too, but that doesn't mean he should be traded. He simply hasn't lived up to the hype yet, in the NHL at least. He's been great in international play. Honestly though, think about what you're saying. You want Kronwall to be traded because he hasnt lived up to a TSN scouting report.

He hasn't turned into the player "NHL brass envisioned" yet but so what? He's played 93 games in the NHL. Not everyone can jump in like Crosby or Ovechkin and tear up the league -- especially when Kronwall has sustained major injuries in his career already.

Edited by ARice89

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When did I say anything about Kronwall? I think he's overrated too, but that doesn't mean he should be traded. He simply hasn't lived up to the hype yet, in the NHL at least. He's been great in international play. Honestly though, think about what you're saying. You want Kronwall to be traded because he hasnt lived up to a TSN scouting report.

so then what are his strenghs supposed to be? the report is the exact same one used by sportsnet.ca

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/Niklas_Kronwall/

don't tell me you think he's a stay at home d-man , this is general knowledge that he's supposed to be an offensive defenseman with big hit potential. a more physical Lidstrom, don't try and confuse the issue.

and I never said he should be traded

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That's your problem right there, your description as a "more physical Lidstrom". Comparing Kronwall top a Hall of Fame top 5 all time defensemen in the history of the game is unfair.

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so then what are his strenghs supposed to be? the report is the exact same one used by sportsnet.ca

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/Niklas_Kronwall/

don't tell me you think he's a stay at home d-man , this is general knowledge that he's supposed to be an offensive defenseman with big hit potential. a more physical Lidstrom, don't try and confuse the issue.

and I never said he should be traded

Are you really this thick-headed? You've proven nothing other than TSN and Sportsnet's scouting reports are inaccurate and for the most part useless. They're both the same because they're written by a service called Forecaster. I doubt Forecaster really takes the time to watch the games and write up accurate scouting reports.

These generic scouting reports arent the end-all-be-all in arguments. Do you watch the Red Wings or do you read the scouting reports?

Kronwall has shown this year that he's capable of joining the rush and laying opponents out. His weaknesses have been clearing the crease and untimely give aways. There, thats my scouting report on him. When he's given more time on the PP and gains more experience his numbers will go up and his give aways will hopefully go down. His potential is a top pairing defenseman.

Edited by ARice89

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Kronwall is not like Lidstrom.

He's more a defenseman of the Leetch mold.

Attempts to try make him a "shutdown guy" or anything will probably fail. Playing him in this role will likely fail. More offensive freedom and his risky play will - hopefully - render the "gamebreaking" quality.

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...TSN and Sportsnet's scouting reports are inaccurate and for the most part useless. They're both the same because they're written by a service called Forecaster. I doubt Forecaster really takes the time to watch the games and write up accurate scouting reports.

Agree.

...His potential is a top pairing defenseman.

According to you, or the useless scouting report?

esteef

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Are you really this thick-headed? You've proven nothing other than TSN and Sportsnet's scouting reports are inaccurate and for the most part useless. They're both the same because they're written by a service called Forecaster. I doubt Forecaster really takes the time to watch the games and write up accurate scouting reports.

These generic scouting reports arent the end-all-be-all in arguments. Do you watch the Red Wings or do you read the scouting reports?

Kronwall has shown this year that he's capable of joining the rush and laying opponents out. His weaknesses have been clearing the crease and untimely give aways. There, thats my scouting report on him. When he's given more time on the PP and gains more experience his numbers will go up and his give aways will hopefully go down. His potential is a top pairing defenseman.

go back and re-read threads about him right here on this board, everybody gushes about his offensive upside and his physicallity, this is general knowledge. The DRW's feel the exact same way about him too. If you don't know that then you haven't been paying attention. Why did we draft him first overall then?

Capable of joining the rush? big deal - so does Lebda

as soon as anybody say anything even slightly negative about a Red Wing everybody jumps all over them saying that person wants them traded - right now we are overpaying him based on potential, it's dangerous to lock up a guy for 5 years in the new NHL based on potential. If we overpaided all our young players like Cleary, Lebda, Flipper etc. we'd be up a creek.

The bottom line is he hasn't come close to living up to expectations of how he played in Sweden, the Olympics where he was the only non-NHL'er on the squad and in the AHL. the type of game he's played in the NHL is nothing like it, he doesn't deserve to make 3mil a year and tying up an injury-prone player like that for 5 years in the new NHL is stupid.

go back and re-read my posts - I never said he should be traded

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The comparison to Lebda:

1) One of his goals CAME from Kronwall, one was a fluke shot from he blueline (a wrist shot... and Kronwall has bad shot selection?).

2) Lebda can't get the puck out of the zone. He always passes to his partner because he doesn't trust his outlet passing. He has a higher +/- rating because he is partnered with Chelios (partly, although he is decent defensively).

3) 7 of his 10 assists were secondary... make what you will of that stat. Lang (twice), and Zetterberg benefited from his 'outstanding' second playmaking.

(This is as of about Christmas, when I got CI and could actually watch them).

4) Kronwall's longest pointless streak was 7 games, which came at the beginning of the season(with 11 points in his last 20 games). Lebda has had 2 15 game pointless streaks (with 6 points in his last 20 games).

5) Lebda is a -2 in his last 20 games, Kronwall is a -3 in his last 20... pretty even there. Take out last nights game and they are even (and that was a bad game for Kronwall).

Edited by Earthhuman

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2) Lebda can't get the puck out of the zone. He always passes to his partner because he doesn't trust his outlet passing. He has a higher +/- rating because he is partnered with Chelios (partly, although he is decent defensively).

I agree on the +/-, it's just another silly stat that probably feeds into those ridiculous scouting reports. Also, I see Lebda quite often take the puck all the way to the other net and get a great scoring chance just by simply outskating everyone on the ice. (In fact, he did it last game against the Blues when the Wings were having trouble getting through the neutral zone.) Anyway, I don't recall him having trouble with outlet passing, at least not like Kronwall.

esteef

*edited for spelling

Edited by esteef

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go back and re-read threads about him right here on this board, everybody gushes about his offensive upside and his physicallity, this is general knowledge. The DRW's feel the exact same way about him too. If you don't know that then you haven't been paying attention. Why did we draft him first overall then?

Capable of joining the rush? big deal - so does Lebda

The bottom line is he hasn't come close to living up to expectations of how he played in Sweden, the Olympics where he was the only non-NHL'er on the squad and in the AHL. the type of game he's played in the NHL is nothing like it, he doesn't deserve to make 3mil a year and tying up an injury-prone player like that for 5 years in the new NHL is stupid.

He does have offensive upside, and being capable of joining the rush is a big part of that. I don't get how he's disappointed you physically. He's thrown some big hits at big guys this year. It's too early to say whether his contract was a mistake, but just because he doesnt live up to your expectations (which apparently come from TSN's scouting reports) doesn't mean he wont end up being a top pairing guy.

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We have a lot of players with potential. Some with a lot of potential. Most of them are in Grand Rapids or elsewhere in the world, gaining the experience necessary to compete at the NHL level. When they're ready to contribute, they're brought up and are eased into the system with more ice time as they mature.

I think some people are hinting that Kronwall isn't contributing as much to his team as he was expected to. You can have all the potential in the world but if you suck now, there's no reason to be on the team.

Is it acceptable for other players on this team to suck so long as they have potential? Williams has a lot of potential but he's a little snakebitten now as well. He just needs to find his stride and get comfortable again. We've all seen that he has skill and is capable of putting up numbers. But why is everyone screaming for him to get the boot and yet everyone is willing to wait years for Kronwall to come around?

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