5 Reason's Datsyuk Will NOT Be Traded

[bringback91 2]

You're missing the point. It's not that I expect a cup every single year. That is very unrealistic, but 3 early exits from the playoffs when the Wings have had one of the top spots, is what the Wings consider unsuccessful.

Sidenote: I hope you're right and Dats does step up this post season. On top of that (if he does step up), I hope he signs a 4 year / $4.5 - $5 million deal.

I understand your frustration with some people's opinion of Dats, but please god tell me you don't mean this. If you do, its one of the most ridiculous things I've heard around here.

Lids had one truly poor post-season showing in his career opposed to Dats who is still looking for his first strong showing. It's not that people are favoring certain players, its that you're comparing apples to oranges when you talk about Lid's and Dat's post-season careers.

Really as a fan does it matter to you if they lose in the first round or the finals? To me it doesn't, an exit is an exit. It's not like they lost to some shmoes who got swept in the next round. Sure they consider it unsuccessful, every teams goal is to win the cup right? That is why they play the games.

I'm not really talking about overall careers, I'm talking about last year. And Lids was crap also. No, not his fault they lost, but he didn't get his job done either, nor did Manny or most of the rest of them. For instance, everyone blames Lilja on the Hemsky goal, but look at the replay and how horribly out of position and chasing the guy with the puck Franzen was. Hemsky was Franzens back check, and he missed it. Yet Lilja gets the blame. You should really read around if some of what I post is the most ridiculous things your've read on here. But hey, I don't think anyone really seeks anyone elses seal of approval anyway, right?

[eva unit zero 271]

Hemsky was Franzens back check

Hemsky and Franzen are both wingers. In man to man coverage, wingers usually cover defensemen, and vice versa. If Franzen was supposed to be covering Hemsky, then BABCOCK can be directly faulted.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Yeah, seems like the Z lovers seem to think one series makes a career. He's had ONE good series. Didn't do s*** the others. So if Dats has a good first series, does he suddenly become a playoff performer too?

That's crap, it's Cup or bust for 90% of the posters around here. The Wings aren't the only team to get beat by the underdog, that's why they play the games. You don't think the team has improved this season over last, considering the loss of The Captian and Shanny? Right, for Datsyuk it's about delivering when it counts and showing he "deserves" his money, yet Lids gets a free pass cause he's "proven it before". That's a load of s*** too, that only applys to certain favored players. So, Lang deserves the same money as Dats, cause he scores a couple goals in the post season, (where they still get eliminated) and dozes his way through the regular season. That don't make much sense. I thought high salary demands come with high expectations? Big Bert? Oh, no not him, even though he sucks in the playoffs, he's big and tough so he deserves it.

Right, so why give the people on a message board that like the guy on the team such a hard time? Your last paragraph seems like a problem you should take up with managment thorugh letters or petitions or something. I realize I have no bearing on what he gets paid or who he plays for, so I just root for him, instead of nit picking and beating the same dead horse that's already a bloody puddle of jello.

You take this way too personal. I'm arguing my point. I'm not giving anyone a hard time, except Datsyuk and maybe Holland. If you can't admit Datsyuk has a lot to prove and has underperformed in the past, then I don't see a point in continuing this debate. What others have or might not have done is irrelevant, although one thing is for certain; nobody in the lineup has underperformed to the extent Datsyuk has for the past few post seasons. Not even close. Most of them do not demand an elite salary either.

[WingNutt 12]

You're missing the point. It's not that I expect a cup every single year. That is very unrealistic, but 3 early exits from the playoffs when the Wings have had one of the top spots, is what the Wings consider unsuccessful.

Sidenote: I hope you're right and Dats does step up this post season. On top of that (if he does step up), I hope he signs a 4 year / $4.5 - $5 million deal.

I understand your frustration with some people's opinion of Dats, but please god tell me you don't mean this. If you do, its one of the most ridiculous things I've heard around here.

Lids had one truly poor post-season showing in his career opposed to Dats who is still looking for his first strong showing. It's not that people are favoring certain players, its that you're comparing apples to oranges when you talk about Lid's and Dat's post-season careers.

How did this thread go from, Top 5 reasons Datsyuk WILL be signed for sure. To comparing Datsyuk's playoff performance to Zetterberg's and Nick Lidstrom's???

[bringback91 2]

Hemsky and Franzen are both wingers. In man to man coverage, wingers usually cover defensemen, and vice versa. If Franzen was supposed to be covering Hemsky, then BABCOCK can be directly faulted.

Not in a situation where Franzen was the first forward back, and the closest to Hemsky. You can draw on as many chalk boards as you want, sometimes things just happen out there, like this play and the missed back check.

Barnes-

You take this way too personal. I'm arguing my point. I'm not giving anyone a hard time, except Datsyuk and maybe Holland. If you can't admit Datsyuk has a lot to prove and has underperformed in the past, then I don't see a point in continuing this debate. What others have or might not have done is irrelevant, although one thing is for certain; nobody in the lineup has underperformed to the extent Datsyuk has for the past few post seasons. Not even close. Most of them do not demand an elite salary either.

Nah, nothing personal. Just funny how when facts of last playoffs are reviewed I'm an "apologist" who always comes up with excuses. That's a bit irritating I'll admit, but nothing I'm going to lose sleep over or anything. I thought I've already stated that numerous times in numerous threads. It's more of a "I have faith" hell perform, then me saying he has nothing to prove. I guess we'll just have to disagree on who's underperformed to what extent. Your right on the salary though, but most don't lead the team in points in consecutive seasons either. Just curious if Z was a UFA at seasons end, what would you offer him?

Edited February 20, 2007 by bringback91

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Really as a fan does it matter to you if they lose in the first round or the finals? To me it doesn't, an exit is an exit. It's not like they lost to some shmoes who got swept in the next round. Sure they consider it unsuccessful, every teams goal is to win the cup right? That is why they play the games.

I'm not really talking about overall careers, I'm talking about last year. And Lids was crap also. No, not his fault they lost, but he didn't get his job done either, nor did Manny or most of the rest of them. For instance, everyone blames Lilja on the Hemsky goal, but look at the replay and how horribly out of position and chasing the guy with the puck Franzen was. Hemsky was Franzens back check, and he missed it. Yet Lilja gets the blame. You should really read around if some of what I post is the most ridiculous things your've read on here. But hey, I don't think anyone really seeks anyone elses seal of approval anyway, right?

Don't take what I was saying the wrong way, because I don't think what you post on a regular basis is ridiculous. It was just that statement comparing Lid's post-season career to Dat's. You are 100% correct that Lids had a crappy post-season last year, but all I'm saying, is that Lids has proved time and time again to be a solid playoff performer. You can't honestly tell me that Dats has had similar playoff success to that of Lidstrom, can you?

Sidenote: To me, it does matter if they lose in the finals, but it is more understandable than losing in the first round. Everyone knows the West is much more physical than the East. If the Wings can battle all the way to the cup and lose, I would be pissed, but it will be a little more settling than another first round exit.

How did this thread go from, Top 5 reasons Datsyuk WILL be signed for sure. To comparing Datsyuk's playoff performance to Zetterberg's and Nick Lidstrom's???

Because BB91 brought it up.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[eva unit zero 271]

Not in a situation where Franzen was the first forward back, and the closest to Hemsky. You can draw on as many chalk boards as you want, sometimes things just happen out there, like this play and the missed back check.

Why wasn't Lilja already back covering Hemsky, though?

Is it Franzen's fault because he didn't make up for Lilja's glaring mistake?

[bringback91 2]

You can't honestly tell me that Dats has had similar playoff success to that of Lidstrom, can you?

Because BB91 brought it up.

Your not honestly asking me that question are you?

Actually starting with the 3rd post of the thread, the entire thing mentions just as much if not more about Lids and Z than Dats, and none of it has anything to do with reasons he won't be traded. Half of it's a Z and Lids slapfest. Just doing my part

Why wasn't Lilja already back covering Hemsky, though?

Is it Franzen's fault because he didn't make up for Lilja's glaring mistake?

No, Lilja was back with Lids defending the 3 on 2.

It's franzens fault cause he didn't pick up the open man closest to him and chased the puck carrier arcross the ice. Lilja couldn't cover both of them, so he took the guy closest to him, coming up the center of the ice.

Edited February 20, 2007 by bringback91

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Your not honestly asking me that question are you?

Of course not, I know you know the answer.

Actually starting with the 3rd post of the thread, the entire thing mentions just as much if not more about Lids and Z than Dats, and none of it has anything to do with reasons he won't be traded. Half of it's a Z and Lids slapfest. Just doing my part

And you are right with this statement. However, I responded to you because you quoted me in your response. Nothing more. I would have done the same to anyone else that quotes me.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Nah, nothing personal. Just funny how when facts of last playoffs are reviewed I'm an "apologist" who always comes up with excuses. That's a bit irritating I'll admit, but nothing I'm going to lose sleep over or anything. I thought I've already stated that numerous times in numerous threads. It's more of a "I have faith" hell perform, then me saying he has nothing to prove. I guess we'll just have to disagree on who's underperformed to what extent. Your right on the salary though, but most don't lead the team in points in consecutive seasons either. Just curious if Z was a UFA at seasons end, what would you offer him?

Then why is Datsyuk never top 3 in points after the post season? That would be a start, and not too much to ask from the top scoring regular season player and best paid forward on the team.

I've heard all about "this year is it" before. It's always the same story and by now there's absolutely nothing that leads me to believe that Datsyuk can step up when it actually counts. This stance is highly justified.

Whatever I'd pay Zetterberg, I'd pay Datsyuk about a $500K to a million less, because frankly he's not as valuable.

[bringback91 2]

Then why is Datsyuk never top 3 in points after the post season? That would be a start, and not too much to ask from the top scoring regular season player and best paid forward on the team.

I've heard all about "this year is it" before. It's always the same story and by now there's absolutely nothing that leads me to believe that Datsyuk can step up when it actually counts. This stance is highly justified.

Whatever I'd pay Zetterberg, I'd pay Datsyuk about a $500K to a million less, because frankly he's not as valuable.

That's just the thing, would you even like to be proved wrong about Dats this post season as it would greatly benifit the Wings chances? Or would you rather be correct so the player you dislike would be let go?

That's fine, at least your in some sort of reality range, as opposed to others ready to dish out 7 mil for 6 years to z because of one post season series.

I'm not saying you really, but there are some whom I beleive would rather see Datsyuk fail (even if it means the Wings lose) because they personally don't like him or his style, or to be proven "right" over him actually coming up and doing well. It's odd to me.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

That's just the thing, would you even like to be proved wrong about Dats this post season as it would greatly benifit the Wings chances? Or would you rather be correct so the player you dislike would be let go?

That's fine, at least your in some sort of reality range, as opposed to others ready to dish out 7 mil for 6 years to z because of one post season series.

I'm not saying you really, but there are some whom I beleive would rather see Datsyuk fail (even if it means the Wings lose) because they personally don't like him or his style, or to be proven "right" over him actually coming up and doing well. It's odd to me.

Then those people aren't real Wings fans. If anyone seriously doesn't want Dats to have a stellar post-season, I wouldn't even waste my time debating with them.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25

[RyanBarnes! 293]

That's just the thing, would you even like to be proved wrong about Dats this post season as it would greatly benifit the Wings chances? Or would you rather be correct so the player you dislike would be let go?

That's fine, at least your in some sort of reality range, as opposed to others ready to dish out 7 mil for 6 years to z because of one post season series.

I'm not saying you really, but there are some whom I beleive would rather see Datsyuk fail (even if it means the Wings lose) because they personally don't like him or his style, or to be proven "right" over him actually coming up and doing well. It's odd to me.

I want Detroit to win. Datsyuk or no Datsyuk.

Zetterberg is not a $7 M player. Perhaps $4-5 M. Lidstrom is a $7 M player, but not Zetterberg. At least not yet.

[Heaton 1]

If Datsyuk had contributed from the start no one would want Datsyuk traded.

[WingNutt 12]

That's just the thing, would you even like to be proved wrong about Dats this post season as it would greatly benifit the Wings chances? Or would you rather be correct so the player you dislike would be let go?

That's fine, at least your in some sort of reality range, as opposed to others ready to dish out 7 mil for 6 years to z because of one post season series.

I'm not saying you really, but there are some whom I beleive would rather see Datsyuk fail (even if it means the Wings lose) because they personally don't like him or his style, or to be proven "right" over him actually coming up and doing well. It's odd to me.

Thats what I'm talking about BB91, I agree 100%. There are people on these forums who would rather see Datsyuk fail in the playoffs and prove thier point about him than see Datsyuk along with the Wings succeed.

[bringback91 2]

If Datsyuk had contributed from the start no one would want Datsyuk traded.

300 pts. in 341games isn't contributing? Stanley Cup rookie year? (he did have a game winning goal that playoff year) I find it hard to believe that anyone can honestly think he hasn't contributed.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Thats what I'm talking about BB91, I agree 100%. There are people on these forums who would rather see Datsyuk fail in the playoffs and prove thier point about him than see Datsyuk along with the Wings succeed.

...Or is that what you THINK?

[Heaton 1]

300 pts. in 341games isn't contributing? Stanley Cup rookie year? (he did have a game winning goal that playoff year) I find it hard to believe that anyone can honestly think he hasn't contributed.

Statements like the one I have made don't take the regular season into account because in threads like this it's irrelevant.

[HenrikRules40 14]

300 pts. in 341games isn't contributing? Stanley Cup rookie year? (he did have a game winning goal that playoff year) I find it hard to believe that anyone can honestly think he hasn't contributed.

I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything...but if Pavel wasn't on the team in `02 I'm *pretty* sure we would have won the Cup anyway. Just a hunch...

[bringback91 2]

Statements like the one I have made don't take the regular season into account because in threads like this it's irrelevant.

That's fine I guess, I just don't get the whole "regular season means nothing" arguement. It's just as important. Eh, only 20 games left then all these posts and everything else can take a backseat and let the hockey being played do the talking.

I'm not trying to bust your balls or anything...but if Pavel wasn't on the team in `02 I'm *pretty* sure we would have won the Cup anyway. Just a hunch...

The same could be said for over half the roster. Point was he contributed, even if it was only one gwg while playing on the fourth line.

[Heaton 1]

That's fine I guess, I just don't get the whole "regular season means nothing" arguement. It's just as important. Eh, only 20 games left then all these posts and everything else can take a backseat and let the hockey being played do the talking.

The same could be said for over half the roster. Point was he contributed, even if it was only one gwg while playing on the fourth line.

/sigh

I never said the regular season was meaningless in terms of contributions. The point was that no one ever questioned his regular season ability. If Datsyuk would've just been mediocre in the playoffs from the time he became the player who he is right now, no one would be concerned.

[bringback91 2]

/sigh

I never said the regular season was meaningless in terms of contributions. The point was that no one ever questioned his regular season ability. If Datsyuk would've just been mediocre in the playoffs from the time he became the player who he is right now, no one would be concerned.

no need to get out of breath.

Somehow I doubt that no one would be concerned. Eh, like i said, I'm content to let the hockey do the talking this year.

edit....mistake

Edited February 20, 2007 by bringback91

[Cruiser008 37]

Here's 5 reasons Datsyuk will not be traded and will be resigned. Some are flimsy and some are concrete, but you will have to be the judge.

1. He wants to stay. Players taking less than their initial offer isn't unthinkable, though it is rare. He says he wants to retire a Wing and I believe him.

2. Holland isn't a moron. He will pay him what he thinks is a reasonable price. A player of Pavel's caliber radiates 5+ million a year and every GM in the league knows it, including Holland.

3. Holland isn't a moron. He knows after this current hot streak that the line is unstoppable when it's hot. To gamble on breaking it up is unthinkable.

4. Zetterberg needs Datsyuk. I say on over 80% of Z's goals, Datsyuk is the main assist. He wouldn't have half the goals or even half the scoring chances without Dats feeding him the puck.

5. Of all the players on the Wings roster, who would you want to have the puck with 1:00 left on the clock down 2-1 in game seven of the finals with the goalie pulled?

1. NO he wants the $$$

2. Holland IS a moron.... hence the likelihood that Datsyuk will resign

3. Many scoring lines are unstoppable when they are hot. I want a scoring line that is DEPENDABLE.

4. Again NO. Zetterberg is the more complete player.

5. In a 6 on 5 situation with the goalie pulled you crash the crease and get as many shots on net as possible because there is no space to create. Thus I want puck in Lidstrom's stick because no one else is better at getting a shot through traffic.

[WingNutt 12]

1. NO he wants the $$$

2. Holland IS a moron.... hence the likelihood that Datsyuk will resign

3. Many scoring lines are unstoppable when they are hot. I want a scoring line that is DEPENDABLE.

4. Again NO. Zetterberg is the more complete player.

5. In a 6 on 5 situation with the goalie pulled you crash the crease and get as many shots on net as possible because there is no space to create. Thus I want puck in Lidstrom's stick because no one else is better at getting a shot through traffic.

Typical Don Cherry brainwashed Canadian, thinking the only solution is to elimate all Russian's and replace with Canadian players to have success in the playoffs. All brought on by the personal grudge Cherry has for European players. Boy did I get a kick out of Ilya calling out Crosby, not so much the act itself by more importantly how much it pissed off Big Don.

Yes Pavel must produce in these playoffs but to count the guy out now and say we need to trade fast would be foolish. You trade Datsyuk and the entire chemistry will get thrown off. Trading Dats and bring in BertuzzE is not the answer eh.

[WingNutt 12]

*edit* double post

Edited February 21, 2007 by WingNutt