Leaderboard

I disagree, although I can see where you're coming from. Firstly, I don't think the Wings are any one individual's team, and likely haven't been since Stevie left. Even before he retired, an argument could've been made that it was the entire lockerroom's team, as I'm sure Draper and others were just as instrumental in maintaining team focus. That's one of the great things about this team over the past decade plus -- the team first mentality that brought success. In fact, I seem to recall a story about the team being down heading into the third period and every member of the team having to step up and stare both Yzerman and Chelios in the eye for near a minute before heading back out onto the ice. Secondly, I think that Datsyuk is the player everyone else looks to in the clutch to step things up. He's the guy who will get you that amazing play to save the game. However, I believe (and this is from a spectator's perspective only) that the person they'd look to bring order from chaos when a series is on the line is still Lidstrom. There is a big difference between being the best and most talented game breaker on the ice and being the leader that everyone looks to for emotional direction. Lidstrom is the emotional bedrock of this team, and Datsyuk is looked upon to be the guy who takes that leadership first (again, IMO). This, in a nutshell, is why I see Z taking the mantle as a done deal once Lidstrom retires. Not because Datsyuk's english is suspect, not because Z is the better player...but because when the chips are down he seems more the type to be able to tell everyone in the room what needs to happen in order to pull out a victory (and to back it up with his play). Datsyuk's a supreme talent, no question, and by all accounts a great dressing room presence...but talent doesn't necessarily translate to managing a room. EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say is that they all look to Datsyuk to save them in a pinch, because he can. They all look to Lidstrom (and soon Z) to ask "what do we need to do?"

I would disagree. For one thing, a big part of last year was Zetterberg almost singlehandedly carrying the team through a 15-game stretch. Datsyuk is flashier, and so he gets the media attention and praise. But ultimately Z has shown himself to be the foundation that the Wings will be built on going forward. Datsyuk is certainly important, but it's like the question of "Who's more important to the Homecoming Dance, the Homecoming Queen or the dance planner?"

Don't all players have the same number of stats, so long as they play the same position?

The Jennings trophy is given to the goalie whose team has the fewest goals against. It is not something that is voted on. I think that you mean the Vezina.

I want to see it!

2012 Trade deadline acquisitions: Williams and Lebda Servers Explode

Given all of the Hudler hate on the board, and the fact that people think his performance last season was terrible, horrible, whatever description you like, I thought I would ask this question. What third-line (based on ice time) players around the league do you think 'suck' who plays a scoring role, yet still put up around 40 points? I'd like to see the list of names this board comes up with just so we have an idea of who is having comparable seasons to what Hudler did last year. I'll start it off with a few names: Mason Raymond, Vancouver Tomas Kopecky, Chicago Devin Setoguchi, San Jose Anthony Stewart, Atlanta Tomas Holmstrom, Detroit James van Riemsdyk, Philadelphia Brian Boyle, Rangers There are a great deal more out there. Anyone care to list them? Who out there is a terrible player who played in a scoring role and put up similar numbers to Hudler? How about notably worse numbers? We can bring up these guys: Ruslan Fedotenko, Rangers Marc Savard, Boston Jason Arnott, Washington Radek Dvorak, Atlanta

It was mentioned earlier Hudler should just be allowed to play a Brett Hull game, and I completely agree. I don't really care to see him trying to play physical, grind in the corners and backcheck, because frankly, he isn't good at it. Hudler should be told to simply find open space. I know Babcock is a stickler for 'everyone backchecks' but Bowman at least knew his players' strengths and weaknesses enough to say 'everyone but LaFleur/Lemieux/Jagr/Hull/Holmstrom backchecks'.

Just ask Hudler. He'll tell ya.

This is one of the hardest questions i've been asked in the recent memory.

Not exactly a deal, but I think the best one that never happened is not getting Lafontaine as the #4 pick in 1983, so the Wings had to go with their second choice.

So in his 13 season career, you're going to use 25 games where he was returning from a devastating concussion to call Savard a third line forward? Makes perfect sense. Hudler was playing professional hockey in the KHL, while Savard was hoping headaches and other concussion symptoms would go away so he could start working out again. It's not nearly the same thing. And unlike your example with Hudler maybe being an all-star scorer, Savard has actually been just that. Twice. It's not speculation. It's happened. Before the 25 game sample you've cherrypicked between his concussions, Savard had 33 points in 41 games. Before that when he was playing pretty much full seasons his point totals were 88, 78, 96 and 97. In other words, take most of Hudler's stats and double them, and you'll be around Savard's totals. If you're trying to make a case to people that Hudler isn't as bad as people say he is compared to other third line players in the league (which is a relatively sound argument) you only weaken your case and credibility with crazy ass things like including Savard in the mix. And making threats about derailing this thread with your absurd Jason Williams argument doesn't exactly strengthen your case either. Unlike Williams, Savard has put up impressive points totals in one single season. Third? Who is he in front of? Zetterberg? Franzen? It's sure not Dats. Flip does get hate here, but even when he's underperforming offensively year after year, he's a solid two way center who can handle the second line. Hudler has zero other positive attributes other than scoring. So when he's not doing that, he's dead weight in the lineup. Especially when you consider that Flip only makes $125k more than Hudler, and they put up virtually the same point totals. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone is eagerly waiting for Flip to produce more offensively, but when he's not, he's at least still useful.

I love these "SET UP" threads. Why start a whole thread to just have everyone say the same things to you and you argue their points...we have seen these over and over and over....and over. I'm sure all wings fans would love for Hudler to be better then he is...and yes sometimes he looks and feels better than a 3rd liner but to me in my eyes it happens less. He to me is just one of those cursed players on a stacked team that will never sniff the top line much where im sure he would excel more. On another team if he were getting top line play im sure he would be an above avg player but here he to me is avg to below.

Sure thing. This trade would finally silence those posters who complain about us not having enough toughness on the roster.

As much as I dislike hudler as a player, I can agree with everything you said! I hope he becomes a 70+ point scorer, I really do, but next year so if he re-signs here it will be cheap. If he gets 70 pts this year, he get $5M.

...and that, according to his thread title, Holmstrom sucks. My point is Holmstrom at 37 points is 100,000,000 times better than Hudler, at any point in his career.... Hudler will never be anywhere near the player Holmstrom was/is/will be.

You are so funny, first of all Holmstrom is 38 years old, and he is STILL out performing Hudler at 26. Same amount of points last year in the same amount of games, but Holmstrom's points are earned in a way that Hudler could NEVER understand NOR would he ever attempt. I'd take one Holmstrom over four Hudler's anytime and anyday. We aren't even going to mention Holmstrom's worth to this team over Hudler in the the playoffs... You are just taking your love for Hudler way too far now bud, just stop, please, stop.

BAZINGA! And now for my predictions... - Darren Helm scores 20 goals and 45 points on the 3rd line and gets nomiated for the Selke. - Datsyuk gets 101 points with 30+ goals. - Z scores 40 goals and tops 90 pts. - Howard controls rebounds this year and his GAA drops under 2.00 and he gets nominated for the Vezina and wins the Jennings. - Lids wins the Norris with a landslide vote and retires on top with the Conn Smythe and Ol' Stanley. - Hudler gets waived to make room for Tatar. - Franzen learns how to hustle for 60 mins and scores 40 goals - Flip gets 20g, 40a playing with franzen and Bertuzzi all season. - Commodore grows a playoff afro and dies it Wings Red. - Kronwall steps up and replaces Rafalski no prob. - Homer plays on the 4th line all year and 1st PP. - Nyquist wins MVP in the AHL and Smith takes Dman honours. Both take the jump for the following year after departures of Homer and ....cringing...Lids...I'm assuming the Wings win the Cup. Some may be bold, but if the Wings stay healthy this year, i think they look good. And White will fit perfectly with the Wings. 40 pts for sure.

1. Darren Helm is probably not going to score 20 goals in this or any other season. If we're talking 20 goals based on 1993 scoring rates, sure. But that's like 15 goals this year. 2. Jiri Hudler is not going to be sent to Grand Rapids. If the Wings waive him, he's off to a team that needs another scoring forward and never makes it to the 'assignment' part. 3. Kronwall is going to lose his defensive and physical abilities, and go bald? 4. It hurts. It hurts so much. Why must you do this to me? 5. Seems like a reasonable thought. Except for one thing; what assets are given up? Holland won't be giving up any significant assets unless the defenseman is more than a rental. Which severely limits options and the chance of a deal. 6. He'll be a very mediocre player who has one iconic moment in his time with the team, and many fans clamor for his jersey to be retired because of it? 7. McCarty will be back to teach Commodore how to deal with all of his newfound fame as the expendable superstar? 8. Abby making 30-35 is pretty bold. It's not impossible, but he's in a situation where the only reasons he wasn't fourth line all year last year were injuries and the fact that Helm's line had great chemistry. He's less likely to get those offensive chances this year, with Hudler back on track and a speedier, more talented Mursak ready to go. 9. The sun will rise tomorrow. Seriously. 10. Conklin will start closer to 35 games. Howard's workload is going to start looking like what Ozzie used to carry in the 90s, otherwise he won't have anything for the playoffs. Ever notice that throughout history, a lot of great teams ran tandems? Edmonton did, Pittsburgh did, Detroit did, Montreal did, Toronto did. Historically running with a tandem has assisted the starting goaltender's playoff performance.

Who give a rat's ass? What players do in their private lives as long as it doesn't affect their ability to play is none of our concern.

Calling that for White is not bold. It's logical analysis. Ericsson will steady his play and play more physical, but he'll still be on the third pairing. He might even get himself played out of the lineup if Kindl really breaks out. Awfully bold to predict Franzen to have *another* 40+ year, when his career high is 34. Or awfully stupid. Hudler having a 50+ season may be considered bold but is certainly not unreasonable. Mursak will likely take Miller's spot by December.

If you don't want responses, don't post. I'd call you champ, but you have yet to earn it.

Have I ever claimed Hudler achieved a full-season statistical mark (such as 40 goals) he never actually reached? Anyone? Thought so.

The title was sarcasm of course. I do agree that Holmström is more useful player. Eva's comparison was based on numbers and numbers only and that's fine because numbers are concrete unlike for example defensive awareness. I think that there are better third liners in the league than Hudler, but he's fine. It would be nice if no-one attacked eva for defending him. Eva seems to be a bit number-crazy, but there have been wackier people here. Hudler's become too much of a scapegoat here and eva brings nice colour to the conversation.

Here is a topic for bragging rights, make your bold predictions here that you can later refer back to when/if you're right and claim your bragging rights, or eat your crow! Mine: - White will have a career year, putting up over 40pts and being very effective on the PP - Ericsson will steady his play and post another plus year, as well as play more physical - Franzen will stay healthy all year and have a 40+ goal season - Hudler will actually bounce back decently and will post a 50+ point season - Mursak will unseat Miller and will end up an everyday player by the end of the season, Miller being a healthy scratch most nights and... GO!