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Crosby is a terrible leader and a terrible team player, The main reason the Pens allowed so many goals against the Flyers was because they didn't play a team game Crosby, was more focused on hating his opponents than leading his team. He is a negative influence on and off the ice He really needs to grow up. I used to think he was just young and will grow up but he is getting worse And he signed for a lot more than he is worth considering his concussion problems

Win Win....get the trade done!

Franzen needs to have fun. There is no better place for that than Blue Jackets. He can be lazy and still be their No 1 guy.

I have decided this thread is cruel. Because, come on. We are not landing Rick Nash.

That's all assuming that Howson would accept that offer. I think Franzen is the only piece of that trade that CBJ would want from the Wings. One (arguably) bad contract for another. The rest is well... surely one of those 5 other teams can and will do better than Tatar and Mursak. Plus, Holland can't keep giving up these 1st round picks. I've never seen anything from Nash to make me believe that he's more than a one-dimensional, somewhat selfish forward.

Dear Lord, Please allow the millionaires on both sides to get what they want so I can attend the 3 games this year I can afford.

He's a goalie. I think that right there eliminates any sort of "normal" mindset.

I'm looking forward to watching the young guys play this year. I don't see a point in over paying for Free Agents when Nyquist, Brunner, and Smith are ready to go. Looking at the roster, we have a good mix of youth, vets, stars, speed, and grit. It should be a fun year!

I'm of the opinion that the reason we're the dominant force in the league is because we scout, draft, and develop talent better than just about anyone. Pair that with the fact that the organization treats players well and therefore, they're willing to stay at almost any cost. In my opinion, that's were Ken Holland earns all his accolades. He doesn't really splash in free agency or the trade deadline, but his ability to consistently produce homegrown talent, and keep it around, makes him one of the best in the league. Not because he does or doesn't spend too much money.

I don't think we're going to go 0-82 this season, but I also don't think we're making the playoffs, either. I think we're going to be comfortably mediocre, never excelling, but never truly sucking either. The team has too many holes, some of which weren't filled adequately. We didn't get Parise or Suter which sucks, but that's life. The reason I don't think we're going to do that well this year has little to do with anything that happened specifically this year, aside from Lidstrom's retirement, but rather has to do with Holland not doing much of anything to improve the team over the last 4 seasons. The chickens always come home to roost, and this is our year, it would seem. Don't take this post as a sign I'm turning my back on the team, or jumping off the bandwagon or whatever else it is you crazy kids like to throw around in an effort to appear morally superior to other fans. I'm just calling it like I see it, and what I see isn't that great.

I don't like any situation in which we only have five defensemen under contract, the best of which scored 36 points last year and was a -3 defensively in spite of playing regular minutes with defensively responsible players such as Stuart, Zetterberg, and Filppula.

That's Hudler

Lidstrom - no n I can overlook all the other spelling and gramatical errors, but come on... he's a legend, get his name right...

I want to go on record as not liking Quincey's face too....

Not one bit - one down year does not tarnish an entire body of work and it's that exact mentality that has my so annoyed with the general spoiled brat mentality on here lately.... Holland has been an integral part of our brain trust for over 20 years and adapted AMAZINGLY to the salary cap era (take a look at how well all of the other previous big market clubs have done since this was implemented) and has brought us (or been part of) 4 Stanley cups, 21 straight playoff appearances (might I mind you the longest active streak in PROFESSIONAL SPORTS), countless division titles and most importantly, a chance to win it all every year... that is damn near impossible in today's sports landscape, and I guarantee 29 other clubs would KILL to have such a horrible problem on their hands... Even if we miss the playoffs this year (which I don't think we will), Holland will re-tool and put us back within Stanley Cup contention in no time, and when we're a perennial favorite again, win even MORE cups and titles under his reign, the people with this mentality will still be waiting for the team to have ONE year that's down again, so they can yell "fire him"... It's laughable... Might I remind everyone that during his tenure we've also recovered from unexpectedly losing Konstantinov (a perennial Norris hopeful), unexpectedly losing Jiri Fischer(who was well on his way to being one of the premier big dmen in the league), adapting to a salary cap era AND now, he is losing the best (arguably) defenseman of all time and Holland WILL, as always, adapt to this... just because he didn't pull a rabbit out of his ass, when nothing was available right now, doesn't make him less capable and NOT chasing after marginal players to fill a hole they can't anyway, IS what makes him even better... I am not commenting on this topic any further because it's like screaming at the deaf and if those who disagree can't understand all these points and take them for what they are, I don't know what else to say... As I said before, everyone has the right to be upset this off-season hasn't gone as planned, but COME ON.

I agree 100% about the personal attacks Disagreement is fine, but when nearly all of your posts on a Red Wings forum are taking shots at the Wings you're straddling the line from being a dissenter to a contrarian troll.

Are we talking about the same two people? Because if we are then it should probably be pointed out that Kostitsyn's career high in points is lower than Semin's career average. Kind of a no brainer.

Same old s*** from Holland. He's done nothing of significance the last several deadlines and offseasons. This offseason, his big accomplishment is signing a 4th liner that any GM could have signed and that old goof Samuelsson, who we don't need at this point. And that's coming off three early playoff exits in a row and the retirement of your best player for the last decade. I don't know what our record will be next season, but the offseason up until now has been a disaster. But Holland's mentality is, "All is well" Honesty is a b****.

Not just Russian players....many players don't care about the Cup. Most recently Suter and Parise, who will now never see it again unless they do a Discover commercial with Peggy. A championship used to be the focus of everyone and was cherished, now these guys could care less about winning, as long as they have a bloated contract, are playing with friends and are worshiped by their fans. It's turned into the NFL and NBA.

With the new profanity filter on the new board, can we make that name one? it'd just be funny to see all the asterisk's in Carman's posts

I'm on vacation.

There's forum rules? lol. I read them very briefly years back. I just try to make my point and provide proper research when i post and try not to be a kak when i do it... Seems like an easy enough approach. There's a lot of very knowledgable guys on here (ex Drake_Marcus), a lot of very optimistic guys in a trying time for the Wings which I like (ex LeftWinger) and then you have the funny guy that always has an epic comment to add, yes, that's you esteef, and that's what makes this site great. I think the main problem is that we havn't seen 55 fan on here recently, and our voice of reason isn't here to calm everyone down.

Buttman is an arse. First Canadian city that looks like they need a stadium, he threatens some sort of move. Meanwhile Buttman never suggests huting teams in US cities like Atlanta, & Phoenix to move. Shut the **** up!!

He doesn't sound threatening to me. Maybe I'm not reading between the lines enough, but it sounds to me like somebody asked him what he thought of the situation, so he gave them an honest answer, which is that he agrees Edmonton needs a new arena. I agree that it's none of his business what the taxpayers and government of Edmonton decide to do with their money, and the fact that he IS putting his nose in Quebec City's business bugs me, but it doesn't sound like it's gotten to that point yet here. It sounds like it's the Oilers who are forcing the city to do something by saying they won't play at Rexall Place after the lease is up in 2014. Somehow I really doubt the Oilers would leave Edmonton. Don't they have some of the best attendance numbers in the league, percentage-wise? I mean, I would imagine that's why Bettman wants them to build a new stadium, right? If the Oilers can suck that bad and still fill 17,000 seats, those are some enthusiastic people you've got there, so why not see what you can do with 20,000 seats? I mean, I know QC has some enthusiastic fans, too, but hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It makes a lot more sense to me (at least in my pea brain) to take a team like Phoenix, who has awful attendance, and relocate it, rather than doing the Canadian Team Shuffle.