StormJH1

That game was a disaster in Calgary, but ALL goalies have bad games, and when they do, your team generally loses. The 2nd goal was arguably as much due to sloppy stick-handling by Ericsson. The third one was all on Howard, but it is what it is. If this were M-A Fleury or another goalie with a track record of being sloppy out of the net, maybe I'd get worked up about it. The fact is that Howard doesn't have a history with that crap, so we need to get past this one VERY unfortunate loss and grab whatever points we can in the few remaining games.

Don't care about Howard having a terrible game. Wings would be sitting in 11th or 12th without him. In a must win and considering the opposition the Wings should of had a stranglehold of this game after the first 20 minutes..... end of story.

I thought BEFORE the season and all the injuries that Sammy and Bert were already done being effective Top 6 players. For all the unfair stuff this organization gets blamed for, the MOST fair criticism is their apparent reliance on "crutch" players they go back to (and usually overpay) when nothing else works out. They did it with Bert, Jason Williams, and Kyle Quincey, and probably others.
People say guys like Tatar aren't "ready" to be Top 6 forwards on a playoff team, but if their replacement is a guy who no longer belongs in the Top 6, that's even worse because you're riding declining players into their NHL grave, when you could be developing and evaluating young players on the way up.

I thought BEFORE the season and all the injuries that Sammy and Bert were already done being effective Top 6 players. For all the unfair stuff this organization gets blamed for, the MOST fair criticism is their apparent reliance on "crutch" players they go back to (and usually overpay) when nothing else works out. They did it with Bert, Jason Williams, and Kyle Quincey, and probably others.
People say guys like Tatar aren't "ready" to be Top 6 forwards on a playoff team, but if their replacement is a guy who no longer belongs in the Top 6, that's even worse because you're riding declining players into their NHL grave, when you could be developing and evaluating young players on the way up.

Wow. Can everybody just calm down a little bit about Petr Mrazek? Mrazek is 21 years old with virtually no track record. He doesn't factor into a Jimmy Howard signing whatsoever. Based on where he was drafted, anything with him is gravy. If he ever becomes a passable NHL backup who could threaten for a starting job, that would be a terrific problem to have. Not quite clear just how terrible the Luongo/Schneider situation is for Vancouver, given that they're leading their division and have tons more firepower than Detroit, even with Kesler in and out of the lineup.
I'm thrilled we got Howard re-signed. All the people saying how much money we have under the cap, etc. were under some delusion that Jimmy Howard wasn't going to get paid like a #1 goalie. There's really group of about 10-15 goalies in today's league that make up the "top" goalies in the league. Will Howard ever win a Cup with us? I don't know, but if he doesn't, I highly doubt he will be the largest reason for that.
If the AAV is $5.3 million, that's about right for Howard. It certainly isn't a "bargain", though there are plenty of goalies around the league that make $6 to $8 million per that play at or below Howard's level.
The criticism about signing guys that "can't score" is fair, but also totally ridiculous to bring up in a discussion about a franchise goaltender. For all the stuff Holland has arguably "screwed up" or "missed" on, let it be known be known that he drafted, developed, and retained a franchise-caliber goaltender without the aid of a Top 10 pick.

Wow. Can everybody just calm down a little bit about Petr Mrazek? Mrazek is 21 years old with virtually no track record. He doesn't factor into a Jimmy Howard signing whatsoever. Based on where he was drafted, anything with him is gravy. If he ever becomes a passable NHL backup who could threaten for a starting job, that would be a terrific problem to have. Not quite clear just how terrible the Luongo/Schneider situation is for Vancouver, given that they're leading their division and have tons more firepower than Detroit, even with Kesler in and out of the lineup.
I'm thrilled we got Howard re-signed. All the people saying how much money we have under the cap, etc. were under some delusion that Jimmy Howard wasn't going to get paid like a #1 goalie. There's really group of about 10-15 goalies in today's league that make up the "top" goalies in the league. Will Howard ever win a Cup with us? I don't know, but if he doesn't, I highly doubt he will be the largest reason for that.
If the AAV is $5.3 million, that's about right for Howard. It certainly isn't a "bargain", though there are plenty of goalies around the league that make $6 to $8 million per that play at or below Howard's level.
The criticism about signing guys that "can't score" is fair, but also totally ridiculous to bring up in a discussion about a franchise goaltender. For all the stuff Holland has arguably "screwed up" or "missed" on, let it be known be known that he drafted, developed, and retained a franchise-caliber goaltender without the aid of a Top 10 pick.

To all the people predicting a Chicago beating, do I need to remind you of the 2006 Oilers? or the 2003 Ducks? or even the 1994 Sharks and 2001 Kings? We've been on the receiving end of so many first round upsets that I'm surprised some of you are so pessimistic. Maybe it's finally our time to be Cinderella. Get in and anything can happen, even beating the almighty Hawks.

Wow. Can everybody just calm down a little bit about Petr Mrazek? Mrazek is 21 years old with virtually no track record. He doesn't factor into a Jimmy Howard signing whatsoever. Based on where he was drafted, anything with him is gravy. If he ever becomes a passable NHL backup who could threaten for a starting job, that would be a terrific problem to have. Not quite clear just how terrible the Luongo/Schneider situation is for Vancouver, given that they're leading their division and have tons more firepower than Detroit, even with Kesler in and out of the lineup.
I'm thrilled we got Howard re-signed. All the people saying how much money we have under the cap, etc. were under some delusion that Jimmy Howard wasn't going to get paid like a #1 goalie. There's really group of about 10-15 goalies in today's league that make up the "top" goalies in the league. Will Howard ever win a Cup with us? I don't know, but if he doesn't, I highly doubt he will be the largest reason for that.
If the AAV is $5.3 million, that's about right for Howard. It certainly isn't a "bargain", though there are plenty of goalies around the league that make $6 to $8 million per that play at or below Howard's level.
The criticism about signing guys that "can't score" is fair, but also totally ridiculous to bring up in a discussion about a franchise goaltender. For all the stuff Holland has arguably "screwed up" or "missed" on, let it be known be known that he drafted, developed, and retained a franchise-caliber goaltender without the aid of a Top 10 pick.

The Flyers freakin' love Couturier. They may trade him for the right deal, and for Cap-related issues, but not unless the return is better than Jonathan Ericsson.

This isn't a thread about Jimmy Howard, but I really don't believe in "elite" goaltenders anymore. There are guys like Kiprusoff, Giguere, and Cam Ward who have won Cups and were considered "elite-level" netminders at points in their career....and then look completely ordinary at other times. Team defense and system certainly has a lot to do with that.
I think there's minimum level of competency and consistency you need to prove as a goaltender that places you in the first or second "tier" of goaltenders, and any one of those guys could be good enough to do the job in the right circumstance. Problem is, I think there's literally 15 of those guys. Lundquist, Rinne, Luongo, Niemi, Price, Ryan Miller....all those guys are capable of playing at at top level, and I think Jimmy Howard is somewhere in that group. At the same time, I could easily see a guy like Rinne or Price not being nearly has well regarded in 3 years, if their performances tail off a bit.
I feel like in the "dead puck" era, the combination of a defensively-oriented game and no salary cap (which allowed teams like Detroit, Colorado, etc. to restock) helped breed these "super goalies" like Roy, Brodeur, Belfour, Hasek, etc. All of them were greats, but I'm not sure you could have dropped them into this era and expected 10-15 year careers of sustained superstardom. With those adjusted expectations in mind, we're damn lucky to have Jimmy Howard, and luckier still that he doesn't cost what Luongo costs (yet, anyway).

I'm an out-of-market fan, so I don't always catch the cold opens on GameCenter. For whatever reason, I caught that Nashvillle one. It was creepy and weird, but I blamed 95% of that on a stupid idea by FSN staffers. At no point did it even occur to me he might have been drinking. Especially since they probably taped it a 1:30pm on a game day with a camera crew following him around. (Was pretty funny when Ken Daniels was walking in the crowd of Wings fans - male and female - and you couldn't even find him because he's like 5'5").
I understand this is message board forum, that Murph got fired, and people are just going to toss out possible reasons why that happened. There's just no evidence of it, and it doesn't do any good.
People are losing sight of the fact this was a MID-season firing. If FSD has a meeting in August and decides, "Look, Murphy's just too akward on camera, we have better options for that job", I would have had zero problem with that. Letting him go before a road trip in March in the midst of a truncated 99-day season is either indicitive of some type of misconduct, or is a HUGE slap in the face.

Absolutely and the proof is in the pudding. I'm sorry but there is zero percent chance Larry Murphy taped that Nashville intro while under the influence, yet he still was rambling, mumbling, and falling over his own words. He simply just had a little trouble getting what he wanted out sometimes. I can do the same thing time to time, I can understand this. Anyone does. He just did it at a more accelerated rate which makes me think he actually had a problem. I don't think awkwardness played a huge role, but it could have been influential. He did play professional hockey in front of millions, and has been on the air for over 10 years now, I can't say he still has the jitters being in-front of the camera.
I think the biggest thing is what VM just said. I would HATE for these rumors to get into the media and run rampant.

This is really sad and classless. As an out-of-market Wings fan, it's pretty jarring to see how low-quality that broadcast has become. Everything from the 80's era looking studio work to selling out the entire broadcast to an ambulance chaser law firm...and they blame Murph for the ratings. Right. Anyone with a GameCenter Live account who watches other broadcasts can see what i'm talking about.
What I hate most is that ex-players on the broadcast (like Mick and Verbeek also) is a way of keeping players "in the family". Murph actually WANTS to live in Detroit and wanted to keep covering the team, and FSD decided they don't need him. Sad.
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This is really sad and classless. As an out-of-market Wings fan, it's pretty jarring to see how low-quality that broadcast has become. Everything from the 80's era looking studio work to selling out the entire broadcast to an ambulance chaser law firm...and they blame Murph for the ratings. Right. Anyone with a GameCenter Live account who watches other broadcasts can see what i'm talking about.
What I hate most is that ex-players on the broadcast (like Mick and Verbeek also) is a way of keeping players "in the family". Murph actually WANTS to live in Detroit and wanted to keep covering the team, and FSD decided they don't need him. Sad.
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My buddies at work are both pretty big Wild fans. I happened to be visiting Detroit for a wedding on July 4th, but the taunting and absurd wave of optimism after they landed Parise/Suter that day was pretty rough. Whereas the Wings/Wild game used to be a cute little novelty, now they seem like serious business.
Wild and Wings have also been almost identical in the standings all year, so there's a realistic chance that one of these teams makes the Top 8 at the other's expense. Wild are see-sawing with VAN for the division league, but if they don't win the division, they're in a horse race with everyone else to get in.
Go Wings!

Going to a local bar with a couple of Wild bros. Busting out my Fedorov jersey OH YEAH!!
These two teams usually play each other tough.
Hopefully we can get the 2 points tonight. *fingers crossed*

This move infuriates me. My rage was slightly reduced upon learning that they did it to call up Nyquist. But Nyquist is 23, and probably should've been up here on Day 1. Tatar is 22 years old but he has a skill set that many NHL'ers will never have. The fact that Abdelkader and Cleary continue to destroy Pavel Datsyuk on the top line while we drop two in a row to Columbus...and then send down Tatar? Makes no sense to me.
The problem with "overripe" is that just as soon as these guys get established on the Wings, you look up and Valterri Filppula is turning 29 next week. The longer you string these guys out, the more tempted you become to fill the roster with padding like Samuelsson, Cleary, and Tootoo that cost more than young players and have little to no hope of making us a better offensive team.
Hope he's back sooner than later, he felt like he was on the verge of becoming a difference maker.

This move infuriates me. My rage was slightly reduced upon learning that they did it to call up Nyquist. But Nyquist is 23, and probably should've been up here on Day 1. Tatar is 22 years old but he has a skill set that many NHL'ers will never have. The fact that Abdelkader and Cleary continue to destroy Pavel Datsyuk on the top line while we drop two in a row to Columbus...and then send down Tatar? Makes no sense to me.
The problem with "overripe" is that just as soon as these guys get established on the Wings, you look up and Valterri Filppula is turning 29 next week. The longer you string these guys out, the more tempted you become to fill the roster with padding like Samuelsson, Cleary, and Tootoo that cost more than young players and have little to no hope of making us a better offensive team.
Hope he's back sooner than later, he felt like he was on the verge of becoming a difference maker.

Fleury had a couple of decent years and one great one. Typical NHL goalie, which is why you don't give long term contracts. I'm not as much concerned with what Howard will make as I am how long the term is. There is no benefit to locking players up for life. It's okay to renegotiate contracts every few years. You may get a steal going long term, but you're more likely to be saddled with a bum a few years out.

I almost spontaneously combuted when I read that AAC value. I agree that there are players who could get $10 million per year, but the idea that Getzlaf is an upper-end trend-setter for that trend is borderline absurd. This guy had 11 goals in 82 games last year. His playmaking is unquestionably elite, but his numbers are basically Saku Koivu.
I know the guy won a Cup, but you can't contribute that kind of money to a guy. As was said above, how do you Corey Perry or Bobby Ryan for LESS than that now? I'm pretty sure anyone who had to guess who would be the most productive out of those 3 in the next 8 years would have Getzlaf 3rd in that discussion (I would, anyway).

Great story. Shows how hockey, as much as any other sport, really celebrates old school machismo, and is slow to adapt to modern realities. I remember a similar story about Tony Granato in the 90's after he had some concussion problems, and players made fun of him for wearing a thicker helmet. Guys like Gretzky wore those Jofa helmets that were basically a thin piece of plastic with only enough padding to make it comfortable. They weren't even HECC certified. A lot of players they asked about it basically said that "vanity" and not wanting to get made fun of were the primary reasons they didn't wear more equipment.
Occasionally, you'd hear a guy say that they couldn't see as well through them, but given that 61% of the league now wears some type of shield (including Crosby and some of the highest skill players), that's obviously mind over matter.
I would mandate it to "save players from themselves", the same way helmets needed to be mandated, and even then, Craig MacTavish was still allowed to risk cracking his head open into the mid-90's. People say it's overreaction to a freak accident, but that's absurd. There's been SO many close calls. Brendan Shanahan almost lost an eye when he was with the Devils. Yzerman had the orbital bone fracture and started wearing one full-time afterwards. And the Hossa/Berard incident wasn't a "near miss", that really did wreck Berard's career.
Will it prevent eye injuries from ever happening? Probably not. But I see no that it would harm the game in any other way, and I think it could only help. Henrik Sedin got absolutely rocked in the face by a shot late last night, from almost the same angle as the M. Staal shot. It stunned him and knocked him on his feet, but he got up and was perfectly fine afterwards, and I think the only difference was the visor.

not to stray away from the NHL but it wasn't mandatory in NASCAR to wear what's called the HANS device until they lost Dale Earnhardt in 2001. Sure it was always an option and available, but drivers hated wearing it and drivers like Earnhardt and Tony Stewart among others refused to do so. Even after his death the device met with a lot of resistance, but today there isn't a driver who would think twice about NOT wearing it. NASCAR and US Motorsports just made it mandatory within all sanctioned stock events and the "kids" "grew up" using the device and now it is like second nature to them...even the old guys that were around before 2001 now have been wearing in for over a decade and it has become a part of their car, not just a cumbersome restraint system...
The same would happen with the NHL if they adopted the visor and Kevlar protection, it about 5 or so years, nobody would even think about what it was like without it...


who was it back in the early 90's that wore what looked like football shoulder pads with a protector that was behind his helmet? If I figure it out and find a picture, I will post it....I think he played for the Sabres, but am not sure....

I haven't forgotten Chicago's history (routinely bottom 10 in attendance pre-lockout), but that's an oversimplification. They routinely have some of the best attendance in the league now. Their old ownership was so bad people couldn't even get the games on TV (and the team sucked). TV viewership and fan interest is one thing, but when it comes to putting butts in the seats and the prohibitive costs of ticket sales, I really don't blame "casual" fans for staying home when the product is terrible.
Also, I wonder how Detroit would rank if you measured ACTUAL attendance as a percentage of tickets sold. JLA is embarrassing at times on TV, especially in the lower bowl - it looks like 15,000 to 17,000 out of 20k capacity actually show up for games. Of course, those are terribly expensive tickets you see, but even they're corporate, somebody has that ticket and is sitting on it.

I want realignment badly, but (a) I'm not getting too excited about any one plan, given what happened to the 2011 plan; and (b) I'm not sure I like a lot of the proposals that put us in with a bunch of "Eastern" teams.
The argument that the Red Wings shouldn't be in the "West" has merit, but if you look at a map of the franchises, so do the arguments that would keep us there. I'm also privy to another angle on this debate, living in Minnesota. Wild fans here are convinced that they have it the worst in the league right now (well, except for Winnipeg's temporary arrangement) because they are a Central timezone team that exclusively plays teams in Pacific/Mountain timezones. They also rack up a ton of travel heading out to Vancouver, and 3 of their 4 division opponents are Canadian, which probably causes more issues with customs, etc.
On the other hand, look at a map of the U.S., and Minnesota is basically dead in the middle of it. Detroit, meanwhile has a ton of in-conference games with a three-hour time difference, and a large amount of travel. Those games are as late as 10:30pm starts in the D, whereas the latest a Wild game can start is 9:30pm.
I liked the original realignment proposal because kept us in with Midwest teams like Chicago and Minnesota, and would prevent us from ending up on the West Coast for the first two rounds of the playoffs. Anybody over the age of 25 probably recalls all those playoff series against San Jose, Anaheim, and Los Angeles in the 90's/early 2000's, those late starts were pretty brutal (and they frequently went to overtime).
But as much tradition as Montreal, Toronto, and Boston have, I just don't feel a strong connection to playing those teams as a Wings fan. Granted, nobody really wants to have a "rivalry" with towns like Columbus or Nashville, but that argument would apply to any team equally. Long story short, I'm not so sure that I do want to trade CHI, MIN, and STL for BOS, TOR, and MTL

Since I'm an avowed Tootoo hater, I do feel obligated to check in and give him credit for the last few games. For what Tootoo "is", he's been extremely effective the past few games. I actually found myself wanting him more on the ice, though I'm not sure that's a testament to him or just how irrelevant guys like Abdelkader and Miller have been.

Still, given that we did LOSE the game, and have lost several where Tootoo has been "active" in this manner, I do think you have to put that in the context of the "end result" and ask if you like watching Tootoo because it makes you feel good, or if you truly believe he's making us a more effective team. Tootoo stepped in to a fight between Dorsett and Ericsson, which was (a) kinda embarrassing to Ericsson given his size, and (b) borderline worthy of an additional penalty or suspension for 3rd man in (Ericsson hadn't really engaged yet, so it wasn't that bad). Oh, and by the way, the Blue Jackets scored right after we fired up their whole bench, and held the momentum for much of the rest of the game.
Similar thing late in the game where Tootoo pretty blatantly dove and took that minor in the 3rd that put us on the power play. Yes, it worked, so Tootoo deserves credit for that. But he was also warned by the referee, and that very easily could have been called a dive, which might have been disastrous.
The reason I dislike Tootoo so much isn't really about me disliking him as a person or even his game (though both of those are occasionally true). I just fundamentally don't believe that crap "fits" on a team like this because in a 2-2 or 2-1 hockey game, I believe the Red Wings are better at actually playing hockey than the Columbus Blue Jackets. Players like Tootoo have a target on their back with both opposing goons and referees. Simply by putting him on the ice, the game becomes about Tootoo running around. The game devolves into chaos, and in a chaotic game, the skill advantage of the Red Wings is dissipated. Fans are stuck in the "Cold War" mentality of the Wings getting pulverized by the Devils and beat around the rink by the Avalanche before we won our Cups. That's not what I see happening now (and it's also a different game than 15 years ago). Tootoo isn't the "reason" the Wings are struggling - he doesn't play enough for that to be true. But throwing him on the ice is always going to him, and that's not going to benefit the team long-term.

I would say the injuries have been impactful, but by no means completely to blame. I thought going into the season this was maybe a 6-8 seed team if things went right. Needless to say, almost nothing outside of a couple players has gone well and now it appears just getting in at all will be quite challenging.
I think the biggest problem in relation to the injuries is the sheer number of them. A couple at a time you can maybe survive, but 7-9 guys out on average is unbelievable and would be tough to overcome for even more talented teams. For the Red Wings, it has completely put players in positions and roles where they don't belong.
Helm, Franzen and Smith are major losses IMO. With even just those three playing, I think it puts the Red Wings closer to in the playoffs than out. One of Bertuzzi or Samuelsson being healthy would be nice too since Babcock won't use Tatar in the top-six and either of those two is better than Cleary and Abdelkader. Granted, that's why you don't rely on multi-year contracts to spare part veterans to fill important roles.
Overall, I don't see the Red Wings making the playoffs without some good fortune in the health department very soon. Even if that's the case, I doubt they get out of the first round anyways. Being a borderline mediocre playoff team is the worst spot to be in the parity driven NHL. The Red Wings have a lot of work to do this summer/years ahead attempting to infuse some new talent onto the roster and creating an identity going forward.