Frozen-Man

I think they are serviceable now and Holland will continue to try and make improvements. I didn't mean to imply you were saying something you weren't, I didn't think anyone thought Holland wouldn't try to make moves like I suggested especially considering Holland has stated he has been in contact with Doan's agent. My statement was entirely in line with what this thread has been about.

I don't know, I think a pretty good signing this off-season (maybe Doan) and then a nice pick up at the trade deadline (maybe someone set to be a FA at the end of the season) and I think they might compete with any team in the NHL. They look as good as either NJ or LA did last offseason.

I agree. People have been complaining since the 2008 cup that the Wings lack motivation, well they should have it now. This is the first time in a long time that they actually have something to prove and hopefully it motivates them.

I think Holland thought he was addressing Stuart when he got Quincy, he has not been an acceptable replacement yet but still might turn out to be. As for trading pieces in anticipation of Lids retiring, I think the mentality was to make a push for another cup before he retired. My understanding is that is one of the things Holland and Lidstrom discussed each offseason, whether or not they were going to push for a Cup that year. I don't think Lids would have stuck around as long as he did if Holland was trading away present talent in order to shore up the future when Lidstrom would be gone. Puts Holland in a catch 22.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI8GEidaMMI&feature=youtube_gdata_player True but he didn't know which year that year-to-year would end and here's the rub, he didn't have the cap space to compensate for Lidstrom until Lids retired which makes it kind of hard to plan ahead.

I don't think that the concern is so much that overpaying will hurt the team in terms of actual cash or that it will hurt them capwise this year but rather that most players want more than 1-2 year deals, especially if they are very good players capable of really impacting a team (and these decade long contracts I think have a tendency to make players think 3-4 year deals are even short terms). The big FA class is next year and that is where the problem arises. Not only are there much bigger names next year (that likely wouldn't hurt near as bad as over paying for mediocre players this year) but also Flip and Howard are UFAs next year (as is Brunner which may or may not matter next year depending on how he turns out) and Dats (and to a much lesser degree Ericsson) is the next year , additionally Nyquist and Smith are both RFAs and may get hefty raises (especially Smith depending on his play). I don't care if Holland greatly overpays if it is a 1 year contract but I think is concern is that the cap may go down under the new CBA and he has lots of Wings to re-sign and would like to be able to make a splash next year on FA that really matter.

Did you believe this guy too? It's called posturing.

What you aren't factoring in is that Webber likely won't sign such an offer sheet, he has a different variable than the Wings do. His "risk" is that the Preds actually do match the offer and then he is stuck with them for 12 years. If he really wants out of Nashville why would he risk the Preds matching, if they do he is bound by the contract for the next 12 years. His other option is to sign a 1 year deal with Nashville and then get to go wherever he wants with no risk that he is stuck with a lifetime deal with the Preds. A better option if you are going to do that is to offer him an outrageous 1 year deal one so high it screws the Preds if he signs and they match it, if they don't we have him for a year and get the exclusive rights to negotiate a long term deal, either way he is done with the Preds either immediately or at the end of the season. The only major downside (and probably much to rich to make it a good decision) is all the draft picks lost.

There are two ways of looking at the term "replace" though. Replace could mean either substitute or it could mean equivalent (for example if you get a flat tire you might replace it with the donut - it would replace it in the sense it is a substitute but it would not be considered the equivalent). I don't believe that anyone thinks Holland meant that Quincy and Smith will be the equivalent of Lidstrom and Stuart (which was the insinuation that caused SwedeLundin77 to balk) however, it is correct to say that at this point Quincey and Smith have to be the substitutes for Lids and Stuart.

I agree about the biggest weakness being lack of motivation, and in addition to the things that you mentioned as providing you optimism I think that the other players may have more motivation/drive this year as well. Each year being picked preseason as a contender has got to impact motivation, this year they are somewhat underdogs, written off, and being disparaged as a team. I think that may help motivate the whole team to prove that they are good, something that the hockey world (and many of the Wings players as well) have taken for granted for a few years now. How many times have you either said or heard if they would play the whole 60 minutes they could win almost every game. I think they believed that, I think they assumed they could coast through a period or two and then play hard and they were a good enough team to win most games. I doubt they feel that way this year and it may impact how the team as a whole plays night in and night out. If I'm not mistaken I think Holland has said in the past that you have to have a couple of those long term contracts but that very many of them will hinder you for years. He may have meant that already having two such contract adding another two would be detrimental.

The money is not just sitting there. It is actual real money that if spent is money that The Wings and Ilitch really lose. From experience it is clear that Ilitch doesn't mind spending the money to greatly improve the team but I don't think he wants $17M being spent just because it's "just sitting there." The FA group this year sucked . . . You had two great quality guys who wanted to go to their hometown area and be where their family grew up and most still lived (and I think you could argue that the Wild doubled down on that desire by overpaying both guys in overall contract and in term). After that there is not much there. Most FA's want multi-year deals which not only affects cap space this year but into the future. By overpaying for a guy this year just because the Wings have the cap space hinders them in the future as well. They have to sign Flip and Howard next year and the FA crop next year should be great. I just don't see Semin as making enough of a difference to have the cap hit NEXT year which would likely be a prerequisite to signing him this year. Yeah the Wings have the cap space, yeah they are a legendary team . . . However, there were only two players of significance in the FA pool this year and they both wanted to play together, get matching contracts, AND wanted to go home. Cap space and being a legendary team don't amount to much when players want to go home and home isn't Michigan. What do you want him to say, there are no great FA's he can get (Doan would probably be the best option out there) and most trades look like lateral moves at best (based upon asking prices) - - Would you prefer he said "You thought we were bad in the playoffs last year . . . just wait until you see us this year . . . assuming that by some miracle we actually get to the post season . . . however our fans can look forward to the anticipation of the draft lottery . . . oh yeah any good players want to come over and be part of that this season? Please . . . pretty please." Posturing in the media is part of his job. I'm sure he is concerned about the team and would like to add great pieces but that might not be an option at this time. *For the record I think the team will do fairly well this year and will make the playoffs.

Perhaps he was talking about only the preseason but that is not the way he made it sound. It also makes the insinuation that others who think the will start in the season on the Wings are not "wear[ing their] sensible cap"

There should be a talented youth injection. The Wings have Smith, Nyquist, and Brunner (not to mention Helmer is pretty young. Additionally, several other young guys will probably get a chance to make the team. Furthermore, there is no telling how this team will play. There has been talk since 2008 how the team doesn't seem motivated and lacks effort and passion. They have been dumped on by the media (and a good portion of their fan base) this off-season. Perhaps that lights a fire and now that they don't have front runner status and are more middle of the pack / underdog maybe they respond with that missing intensity. On paper they have some problems but they may have some intangibles that they have been lacking the past few years.

Babcock must not wear one of those hats:

Thanks for the info.

What does it mean if he can't come to terms with the Preds though? Since he didn't elect arbitration and they can't take him to arbitration, if he doesn't want to sign an offer sheet and doesn't like the Preds offer does he just sit out until an agreement is reached?

He had years to prepare for it but not years of cap space to make it a reality. He needed the money allocated to Lidstrom to pay for Lids replacement, which he couldn't have until Lids retired.

It surprised me when I read that as well. I guess maybe he different behind the scenes. The only think that I could think of is that he plays hard almost all the time and seems to have a great work ethic which might translate into the leadership by example they want to show.

There was an article not too long ago in KuklasKorner and FSDetroit stating that the Wings organization is possibly already grooming him for future captaincy. Not sure how much of it is true or just speculation by the author (Art Regner):

Also from Helen St.James:

According to MLive looks like a done deal:

Looks great Matt. Thanks as always for all the hard work.

Looks Like it is official:

I was wondering the same thing. That seems like a lot for Tampa Bay to give up for a goalie who won't start but maybe they sign another goalie for a year or two and have a competition with the thought that Lindback is their future.

I wonder what this will mean for his future. http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1061135874&srvc=rss http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/01/rape-charges-dropped-against-red-wings-draft-pick/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/tmr/comments/red_wings_prospect_max_nicastro_no_longer_faces_criminal_charges/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter