Frozen-Man

I was really surprised by your shorthanded time on ice stat so I went back and checked. In 2010-2011 season Pav had 37:19 of shorthanded ice time for the season and averaged 0:39 of shorthanded ice time per game. Crosby had 19:21 of shorthanded ice time for the season and averaged 0:28 of shorthanded ice time per game. I decided maybe you meant the 2009-2010 season so I went and looked back there as well. In that season you are correct Pav had 59:71 of shorthanded ice time for the season and averaged 0:44 of shorthanded ice time per game. Crosby had 71:54 of shorthanded ice time for the season and averaged 0:53 of shorthanded ice time per game. Mostly I was just surprised, I didn't think about Crosby being on the ice shorthanded that often, and wanted to provide the actual stats.

It's not quite as bad as that sounds though. The Wings are up 2 with a game in hand and also currently have a bettter ROW as well in case of a tie. (Additionally, I don't know that I wouldn't rather drop to sixth and play Dallas rather than Nashville).

Can't seem to get well. Link

Crosby is incredibly talented, no denying that. I think it comes down to how much weight you give defensive ability (something Wings fans probably over weigh because of Pavel's great skill in that area) and to me also a player's ability to longevity, both throughout a season and throughout a career. I think Crosby is hands down the most offensively talented and vastly improved his defensive skills, he just needs to be able to play more games. Sorry for the -1, I meant to give you a +1 but was laughing and hit the neg on accident.

4 points but we also have a game in hand. With only 10 games remaining that is a pretty big deal. We also have 2 more ROW so we have the tie breaker. 4 points ahead, a game in hand and 2 ROW ahead, 10 games remaining (nine for the Hawks) it ain't great but it isn't really that close either.

I hope so and agree that the Blues might slump some (especially depending on the McDonald injury) and the Wings surge (especially getting Dats back) but it is a tall order still. The Wings are 7 points behind (but have a game in hand) but also have to overcome the Blues having 41 ROW's to the Wings 37 ROW's so the Wings will lose a tie breaker. It may come down to their game against the Blues on April 4th, that could be a big 4 point swing (too bad it is any away game for the Wings). Hopefully, playing 7 of the last 11 at home will help the Wings as well (and hurt the Blues who only play 4 of their last 10 at home).

The Wings don't really have a scoring problem over the span of the season. If you look the Wings are actually 4th in the entire NHL in goals for, they have however, as of late had scoring problems. The recent scoring problems coincide pretty closely to the rash of injuries that the Wings have had, so yeah having Dats back should go a long way to helping solve the problem (although when they get Lids back that will be a big boon as well).

I don't disagree about the PP, it has been abysmal and all the short handed goals against lately have just added insult to injury. I don't think it is quite accurate however, to say that the Wings have offensive problems in general. The Wings have had trouble putting pucks in the net lately (although I think injury has a fair bit to do with it) but they are still 4th in the league in goals for (as well as 4th in goals against and just one point behind 1st place for goal differential). Over the course of the season that have scored, they just aren't doing in lately (and again I think the loss of Pavs and Lids greatly impacts that).

I don't disagree with your statement as a whole, they have enough of their full time players that the comparison is not accurate, however, I don't think Howard should be included in the group. I know that he played last game but he has been out so much that by his own admission he is not playing well, not tracking the puck fast enough, and the game is just going on too fast around him. A couple more games under his belt and hopefully he will round into form.

I understood other poster's comment on the subject, just not yours. All I could assume was you were advocating for Tort's style because NY is playing well this year. Throw in the "Awesome!" if you want but perhaps it wasn't a comprehension problem so much as a conveyance problem. Really, what is this supposed to mean? What does that add to the conversation? You don't state Torts is a good coach, if his style works in NY, if his style would work here, if Babs has a similar or different style, or if Babs could/should emulate Tort's style. I still contend that your comment had no real relevance to the conversation, was it just a Deep Thought by Jack Handy?

It's cute how you go back through the thread -1 all my posts.

I read your statement, I didn't and still don't understand it's relevance at all.

I hate to tell you but nothing in my post had anything to do with correcting your grammar. When you quote someone and modify the exact quote at all you are supposed to put it in brackets to show that you the modification. If I wanted to correct your grammar or show that it was improper I could use [sic] to show that there was a grammatical error but I needed to use the word "are" for proper grammar in the sentence I was writing. I could care less about your grammar. Perhaps, in these statements: Even with the terrible play of late the Wings are still 4th in Points in the entire NHL. There may be a couple or random posters but seriously, who are you talking about? Most here acknowledge that there are problems with the team (as in almost every team, every year) but think that Holland by far one the better GM's in the league and that even with the recent poor play (which coincides with the "problem" of Dats, Lids, Jimmy, and 4 others injured) the Wings when they get healthy will still have as good a shot as anyone at the Cup. Finally, regarding the "early exits" the last two years we still went to the second round of the playoff (and game 7 of that series last year), I know it is not what Wings fans hope for but only 4 teams out of 30 got farther than us the last two years.

Couple of things: 1) Were the players getting tone deaf when they lost 6 in a row earlier this season? Because they managed to do pretty well after that slump. 2) If you are going to be using our record to try to show that the Wings are not a force to be reckoned with why don't you also use their home record to show that they are a force to be reckoned with, or even their over all record - they are after all 4th in the entire NHL in points. The vast majority of teams in the NHL would love to have the Wings record and would dread playing them in the 1st round of the playoff (because they are in fact a force to be reckoned with). 3) I don't have blinders on and think that "all things Red Wings[are] completely out of this world amazing[,]" however, I do think they are as good as any team in the NHL and have a legitimate shot to go deep into the playoffs. Perhaps you need to take off your blinders and realize that the sky is not falling and the Wings are in fact still a good team who are battling major player losses and playing poorly during this slump. 4) The fact that we are "sliding down in the standings" yet still have the 4th best record in the NHL is a testament to the fact that the team (when even reasonably healthy) is a very good team. Finally, it is funny to me that the Wings players "clearly getting tone deaf" amazingly coincided with Dats, Lids, Jimmy and 4 or 5 other players all getting hurt.

the Wings must be the luckiest team ever to win 44 out of 71 games (61.97% win percentage). I can think of 12 other teams in the Western Conference that wish they were so "lucky" and had as many "flashes of brilliance[.]" Also, pretty lucky to win 23 games at home in a row which makes them luckier than any team in the history of the NHL. Have they won some games that they shouldn't have? Yeah sure, however, they have also lost some games that they should have won. That is the way hockey and every other sport goes. Yes the Wings are in a slump, due somewhat to injuries (including one to the guy that NHL players ranked as the 2nd best player in the league and one of the top 2 or 3 best defensemen ever to play) and due somewhat to bad play, lethargy, etc. But most teams have slumps, most teams have bad games and bad streaks. It doesn't mean that the wins they had are "lucky" or "flashes of brilliance[,]" on the whole the Wings are too good and win to many games for that to be the case.

It's funny but I thought it might be having the opposite effect, because for one of the only times in his career he is sitting on the outside watching guys play while he can't be involved. Just might spur him to think about how much he is going to miss it all when that inevitable day comes, and convince him to prolong that day as long as he can. Also, I doubt being will make him wonder if age is catching up with him too much. A deep bone bruise could happen to anyone and can take a while to come back from just because of the nature of the injury.

Um. . . They didn't have to surpass them they were already ahead of the Blues before the rash of injuries. It is not just two that were/are out at the same time. Those two were just mentioned because either one is better than any of the guys you mentioned. There are 7 missing from the lineup all at the same time. Half of the entire defense is out. They are not insignificant but neither are they comparable. Again, 7 Wings out at one time, not one or two guys at a time. Also, done of the guys you mentioned are near as good as Dats or Lids. This year I don't know if 4th vs. the Preds wouldn't be better than 1st vs. the Sharks for a first round matchup (and overall road to the SCF) if the standings pan out that way.

hmmmmm You mean the John Tortorella who hasn't taken a team out of the first round since the lockout? The John Tortorella who has missed the playoffs entirely two of the last 4 years? The John Tortorella who has taken the Rangers to a grand total of 12 playoff games during his tenure, while going 4-8 in those games? Who cares how he inspires?

I don't disagree with the fact that the PP was not doing well before Dats and Lids got hurt, although it has been even worse with them out. The point however, is that when they were in, the Wings were winning a lot more (the only thing that ultimately matters) were 1st in their division, 1st in their conference, and in a daily battle for 1st in the NHL. They are no longer winning as much, and are not 1st in any of the standings. That is the real problem and that is directly related to Pavel and Nick being out.

Exactly, additionally it means that teams have to focus their best defensemen on Pavel and so each line below gets to play with less defensive pressure against them. The impact of everyone not having to play above their roll/ability when Pavel and Lids are back cannot be underestimated.

Couldn't disagree more. First, regardless of if they can be replaced there is a problem anytime you have 7 regular players out of your lineup. It messes with the team chemistry (that is why teams are often wary about moves at the trade deadline unless they need to change the chemistry), also you are talking about 1/2 of your regular defensive lineup that has to have an effect on a team especially one playing in front of a career AHL goalie (even if he is playing really well - you just assume it won't last). Second, Cleary should be out but of his knee but can't and is playing severely hobbled. Third, did you really compare Letang to Lids in any degree? Forth, as mentioned above Joey played well while Jimmy was hurt but no one would think of giving him a couple year contract and going with him as your starting goalie. The team knows this even if they feel comfortable with how he is currently playing careerwise he is not a NHL starting goaltender and that affects how a team plays in front of him. Finally, dismiss Bert all you want but Babs was raving about him before got hurt and the team thought he was playing great enough to give him a two year contract and raise his pay (they obviously don't think he is that "easily replaceable"). Bottom, you don't just swap out 7 players including your two best and your starting goaltender and that not have an enormous impact.

I don't think that Jimmy, Pavs. Lids, Big Rig, Kindl, Bert, and Eaves are "a guy" . . . nor are three of those players regular "guys" --- You are talking about far and away the best forward on the team (and one of if not the best in the league), far and away the best defenseman on the team (and one of if not the best in the league), and a goalie that people on this site and elsewhere were saying should be considered (although probably not win) the Vezina (and also mentions of a Hart Trophy candidate). Other teams do not lose the combo of guys like that (along with the other four and a severly hobbled Cleary) and just "keep rolling"

His point was about giving up the short handed goals. I'm pretty sure it was Smith that lost the puck that led to the shorty last night. The guys has 10 NHL games under his belt. It happens. I think that was the point.

I think the first ones called out should be Dats, Lids, Howard, Bert, Big Rig, and Kindl. To me that is the biggest problem here. The Wings are without their best player (and arguably the best player in the game), Their best defender (and one of the best ever), until last night their goaltender who has been incredible for them this year (and by his own admission is not up to game speed yet due to back to back injuries), and HALF of their defense. That takes a toll on a team, both mentally and physically. Additionally, re: Hitchcock v. Babcock there is a huge difference between how a coach can inspire a team that he has only coached for 58 games, the team is currently overachieving and has only made the playoffs once in the last seven years and what Babs can do with a team he has coached for 7 years, is currently decimated by injuries, and who continually make and advance in the playoffs. Apples and oranges. Looking at the current standings I don't know that the easier road wouldn't be 4th against Nashville rather than 1st against the Sharks.

Let's be honest. Apart from that being a dumb article that takes enormous leaps in logic, the writer is obviously a Blues fan writing as if he were a Wings fan. No need to worry about the Blues being the cause of this guys suffering, that is at least if/when they get knocked out of the playoffs.