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Exactly. You know what the Sens bring to the table. And you sit our most physical forward for this gimmicky 11/7 line up. Newsy has been blowing it lately with his decisions. Like playing 4 forwards on the power play when you are up 4-0.

SY changed things. MO is part of the change. With SY our draft picks seem to be winners, he is not afraid to pull the trigger and make a bold move (whether it be buying out a player, trading a player like Mantha, or making a move in FA). Most of his moves seem to good moves. He had delivered us from the Kenny era of signing aged stars as the off season acquisition or re-treading guys for second stints like Sammy, Hudler, T. Bert. Just my take on it.

17 goals and 17 assists in 44 games. My friends who are Tampa Bay Lightening fans down here in Florida are thrilled with him.

I agree on the defensive side I protect XO, DD and Jensen. If i am Vegas, I am looking at XO, Mrazek, or perhaps Helm.

1) He was better than Howard 2) He gave up 4 goals in three games. Jimmie gave up 8 goals in two games. 3) He had one shutout. 4) He gave up one goal in the other game...and lost. We scored 0 goals in that game...you can't win scoring 0 goals...which points to our other problems with this Holland-constructed team. Look if we had Carey Price, i would protect him over Mrazek for sure. But the choice is Howard or Mrazek...which is the more valuable asset? I guess you just hate Mrazek for some reason...

I disagree that he has underperformed more times than not. He has overperformed at times and then at times underperformed. I guess you forgot about the 2016 playoffs against Tampa...we started Howard. We lost back to back games 3-2 and 5-2. Brought in Mrazek and won the next game 2-0. Game 4 we lost 3-2. Game five we lost 1-0. My overall impression is that Jimmie has been a very good goalie for the Wings over the years...but he is getting old and has a bigger contract on a team that needs some cap space. His performance recently has been great...when it doesn't really matter. When he was last given the reigns in the playoffs, he needed to be relieved by Mrazek. Jimmie may have had good numbers last year, but he was OUT half the year!! The more valuable asset is Mrazek as he has upside...will he achieve that, i don't know. Neither do you. But to protect a depreciating asset like Howard over an asset with potential like Mrazek is probably a bad move. I don't think i am alone in thinking this... And i do think that Mrazek's success at the shootout coupled with Howard's lack of success in the shootout points to a talent gap between the two. I also agree that Mrazek could use some work...he is still a work in progress. But he has more upside that Jimmie. And Jimmie cannot play a full season anymore without a significant time on the injured reserve. But leave it to the Wings to protect assets that are depreciating...it is the theme of the past 7-8 years.

A young goalie like Mrazek is going to have spells where he may underperform...Kenny protected a guy 8 years older who gets injured every year stumbling and flopping around behind the net after a puck mishandle. Bad asset management. If you want to see how good a goalie is, check them out during the shootout. Petr has some talent. Not sure if it will ever fully materialize, but he is a more valuable asset at this point in his career than Jimmy Howard.

"the organization" is sucking wind if you haven't noticed...maybe "the organization" shouldn't be so arrogant, get off the pedestal, stop worrying about the "Red Wings culture," and get with the post-cap era like all the other teams. Kenny is running a veteran loyalty program...he is not working hard enough at fielding a competitive team...He should have been fired 4 years ago.

I think Mrazek would have been better to protect over Howard. Howard is older, injury prone, and does not handle the puck as well as Mrazek. He is also more expensive. If we are building for the future why do you protect all the old guys?!?! Not protecting Oulette is big mistake as well. Mrazek has played brilliantly at times and can be a game changer. His numbers suck a bit because our defense sucks big time. We also suffer from a anemic offense so we fall behind...his numbers are a reflection of how sorry our team is...not on Mrazek's actual play. Mrazek has been brilliant on the shoot out at times...that should tell you something about the difference between Mrazek and Howard. Mrazek's performance in the shoot out alone is worth 4 to 5 points a year. Howard's numbers are better, but he gets hurt every year and takes half the year off with injury.

Vanek is a positive addition to this team. He has great hands, passes well, and has a high hockey IQ. He can score (which is something we need). When he was out, we suffered. And we seem to be turning things around a bit with him back in. We have enough dead weight on this team that truly needs to go. I would not include Vanek in that category. I am not sure why we overpay guys like Helm, Abby, Errickson, and others and then when a guy comes in and outplays his contract we are ready to trade him for a second rounder. If we are out of it at the deadline and want to trade him as a rental for someone else we should demand a 1st rounder (or more...like an added prospect). Vanek is a difference maker.

Keep him...he is one of the more skilled offensive guys we have.

Who is disney.com...Glenny? Why is the nickname disney.com? Just wonderin'

Does anybody still remember Mrazek in the shootout against St Louis a few games ago?? He is the #1 guy. Rotate Jimmy in when Mraz needs rest and on back to backs. Goaltending is not the problem with this team...it's everything else.

1) Why is Ericcson out there. Ridiculous up the middle pass and turnover lead the their 2nd goal. Why can't Ericcson sit and play Sproul and Ouellette. 2) So on a 6 on 5 you put Glenny on the draw and have Miller and Ericcson out there...Jeesh this is who we have out there at that time! Just put your most skilled guys out there so they can get the puck and race down the ice. So annoying. Instead we sit back and wait for mayhem to occur in front of the net. 3) Helm just rip it...we played ice capades with the puck the entire overtime and never just get to the net and finish. This whole thing is so frustrating...the whole thing...the Kenny Holland nonsense and his compromising, loyal, veteran-loving attitude, sit on his hands, kick the tires, playoff streaking, overpaying average, overpaying players way past their prime, over investing in a bunch of smurfy forwards, underinvesting in sized D men and wingers clown show. And then our annoying coaching with their 4th line, grind line, non-scoring line, hiding AA, playing Ericcson routine. And finally our players who seem to not have a killer instinct (Helm). Waste of my time watching this.

I thought our worst defenseman last year was Ericcson. Second worst was Kronwall. Ericcson is better this year so far. Kronwall's best days are behind him. So in the long run players like Sproul, Oullette, and Marchenko are more valuable than Kronwall who is running on fumes. He is one big hit away from being back on IR. This should really be Kronwall's last year and he should pull a Rafalski and just retire. I would not be willing to give up on Marchenko or Oulette based on the results of the first 8 games of this year...that is pure foolishness.

Kronner is being paid 5 million a year for a job that a number of our GR guys could do (Sproul, Jensen, Oulette). Kronner has a bumb knee and really had a bad season last year. He is not worth the 5 mill and is seriously on the decline.

Was it Kenny or Devellano that ripped Mantha publicly? We have discussed Kenny's shortcomings for years here. He has made some really bone headed moves in the past and his "overripening" nonsense is so misguided. I am ok with this signing though (Nielsen). I think the Vanek and Ott signings were ok as well. I like that we are keeping Helm. Marchenko signing solid. So I am ok with Kenny's moves yesterday.

Hate Shaw. Helm is the least of our problems. He works his butt off and is fast. I'm ok with this. The real deadweight on this team = Erickson, Kronwall, Howard Move some of these pieces if possible

On the positive side: 1) he has hands 2) term is a bit long, but probably what we needed to give to get him 3) he can get it done in the shootout. That may make the difference between making the playoffs or not 4) I prefer this guy over Lucic who I think will be on the decline. 5) he seems durable Now, I would have preferred Backes. This is not a terrible signing

Can't count on Stamkos...he has a blood clot in his arm and is on anticoagulants currently. You want to throw 10 mill a year at that?

Personally, I would not risk signing Stammer this off season. He has a blood clot in his arm. He is likely on anti-coagulant therapy now. You want to pay $10 million a year for a guy who is currently completely out of commission and without any clarity to his future? I don't. The Wings need to work from the back forward. Starting with Mrazk they are good in net. They need to get rid of Jimmie and go to a cheap 2nd string goalie. They need to try to replace Ericcson (who is a disaster) with a true top two defenseman who is young (25 years old). They need to upgrade their power play and penalty kill coaching. They need to move Z to the 3rd line as he can no longer effectively log first line minutes. Those are just basic starting things they need to do.

Mrazek is better...he had many good saves tonight. All those power play goals in my mind are on the penalty killing which was very weak tonight. Mrazek made some key stops throughout this game that kept us in the game. Jimmy would have given up 3 goals in the first period and then have to be pulled. Remember Jimmy is coming off of a 4 game losing streak. Games we absolutely had to have and he could not get it done. Mrazek's one problem is he plays too far out of the crease at times. But so does Jimmy. Maybe they are coached that way. They need to watch video of Carey Price and Lundquist. Those goalies are very efficient...not spastically out of control.

An example of the difference between a successful GM and a not successful GM. When Yzerman needed cap space, he didn't have any problem buying out Lecavlier even though he was the Captain and a fixture on the Lightening. He realized that the cap hit of $7 million a year was paralyzing his organization and made the move. He didn't think that his hockey club was some kind of "loyalty party" where you stick to guys because they have worn the Winged Wheel honorably. Holland on the other hand has to buy out Stephen Weiss after he signs an injured player to a ridiculous contract...how do you even make a signing like that if you know the game. Were any other GMs beating down the door to sign that guy? No...and there is a reason why. Now if Dats leaves, there is a risk that we eat his cap hit. That falls on the GM for signing a guy for too many years when he already knew his heart was wanting to return to Russia. That's on the GM. That's why he gets paid. We have been on a steady decline since 2008 and i blame Holland. Really the blame falls on Illitch because he keeps do nothing Holland around. Holland's main success was in an era where there was no cap and he could just run around spending Illitch's money. If you look now, Yzerman and Jim Nill are running circles around Kenny Holland.

This team has lots of issues... But they continually hamstring themselves with sticking to guys that suck...like Erickson. That guy is like personally responsible for at least 2 of the goals tonight. He is a soft, turnover machine. We win tonight if he is scratched instead of Marchenko. He is primary reason #1 that I have little confidence in Holland's ability to assess things with this team...Holland has old man syndrome where he can't think outside of his outdated box. ​Primary reason #2 is pushing Filpulla away and signing Steven Weiss to a $ 30 million deal. #3 is signing Franzen over Hossa. There are more but i have to go vomit now.

1) Mrazk is the better goalie. Play the better goalie. Howard can make a few great saves, but he gives up soft goals, does not handle the puck well, and is not as mentally strong in games that are tied or in which we have the lead going in the third. Howard is always good for giving up that critical goal. It's mental. The team is not good enough to survive mediocre goaltending. You have to go with Mrazk the whole way. 2) Since 2008 this team has gotten worse and worse and worse. That is on Kenny Holland. He like Joe Dumars was for the Pistons. Resting on past glories while f'ing up the present big time. He basically ran Filp out of town only to sign Stephen Weiss. Filp is a solid 2 way player and Weiss was damaged goods on arrival and afraid of touching the puck. He spent years resigning 37 year old washed up players and wasting the prime of Dats and Z after we won our last cup. He signed Ericcson to a 4.5 million dollar contract when he is barely a 3rd pairing guy. He has constructed a team of smurfs that gets pushed around. Holland should just retire. The game has passed him. 3) Our line combos are a joke. We have the all slow line of Dats-Z-Abby. All of a sudden we decide that we need to play Andersson again. On a team that struggles to score. Great.... 4) We have no consistent net front presence. We have no one who is actually hard on the puck. 5) We are satisfied to play a close game against a team from a non hockey market missing it's two best players. Really disgusting. Frustrated that we seem to be satisfied to play to a level where we lose games by one goal...we are mentally weak.