kipwinger

I was specifically talking about the analytics crowd and their fans. THOSE people seem to be okay with a plus/minus system centered on shot attempts, but openly mock the old school plus/minus system based on goals. I'm wondering why they'd embrace one and reject the other.

Alex Debrincat might never score again. I think there's a real possibility he's never score another goal again.

If they're that fragile it's their GMs job to know and sell at the deadline. The f*cking Flyers are in a divisional seed and traded a top four defenseman for a 1st at the deadline. Presumably their GM has a better handle on the team than ours does. I don't think we should bridge either of them. They're both studs. Seider's being worked like a mule and he's still scoring half a point per game. If he started in the defensive zone 10% less he'd be in line with all other 1D usage and he'd score 60 points. Same with Raymond. He's going to score 60-70 points and he's (inexplicably) on the 2nd powerplay unit and forced to play half the season with JT Compher as a center. They're both part of the solution, not the problem.

I mean, if you start with the premise that we were playing unsustainably well in January and February and then you take the best player (at the most important position) off the team it's easy to see how they'd fall apart. And I'll reiterate for the millionth time that by not doing ANYTHING at the deadline Yzerman might as well have waived the white flag. "I believe in your guys...just not enough to do anything at all to help".

I keep thinking about that super testy interview that SY gave on deadline day against Arizona when he was pissy about our "team defense". In other words, the guy responsible for assembling the defense was complaining about the defense, after he opted not to address the defense, on the very last day to do anything to improve the defense. That's almost as bad as watching Ville Husso play too many games last year and then decide to address that problem by signing two goalies who aren't any good. Lyon playing WAY above his head (unexpectedly) is the only thing that kept this from happening sooner. And THAT'S almost as bad as Derek Lalonde saying he can't play Sprong higher in the lineup because he's bad defensively and then starting the last two games with Kane, Debrincat, Berggren, and Raymond on the wings in the top six.

I do, and did. But you can look back at my old posts and see all the times I said something like "and we're in prime position to address our needs at the deadline". Never did I ever feel comfortable with James Reimer as a backup goalie, or zero power fowards, or Petry as our 2nd best RHD. I never ever thought SY would just let it ride and do nothing to address any of these issues.

Berggren draws a ton of penalties.

All of our "best" wingers are midgets that can't win puck battles. Our "best" center has scored less than half a point per game in his career. Our "best" goalie has played 53 games in his career prior to this season. Our "best" defensemen are forced to play 70% of the game in the defensive zone otherwise we get scored on even more than we already do. We had a flawed roster that was playing way above its head for most of the season and our GM decided that he "liked his team".

He had a goal and an assist last game and has scored more than Kane, Raymond, Compher or Debrincat during our 0-5 losing streak. You're reaching.

Rasmussen hasn't been scored on tonight. What are you talking about?

Who knew that having only one good defenseman, no good centers, and 25 tiny wingers wasn't a recipe for victory? I had no idea.

Question, in the era of analytics why hasn't plus/minus seen a rehabilitation as a useful stat? The possession argument is basically that if you're on the ice and your team gets a shot, or a shot attempt, or a blocked shot, or a missed shot then you get a "plus" because your team had possession in the offensive zone. Even if you did nothing to contribute to the shot attempt. And if you're on the ice and the opposition gets a shot attempt you get a minus, even if you did nothing to help give up the shot. So why not a goal for vs. a goal against? I never hear analytics bros going to bat for +/- as a stat and I don't understand why?

No idea, I'm just regurgitating what I saw.

I’m paraphrasing here but I read an interview with Alan Walsh, a big time player agent. He said this Canada vs. US debate is blown out of proportion because any agent worth a damn hooks his clients up with accountants than can more or less manage the money such that the tax burden ends up being negligible. Take it for what it’s worth. Here it is. https://x.com/walsha/status/1307480088800182272?s=20

Cooper moved him to the wings in 2015. Five years into his career. That was nine years ago. I'll grant you that he may have played center here and there along the way, but he has never played center consistently under Cooper. Also, he won Cups on the wing. He won Richard trophies at center. One of those things is demonstrably better than the other. https://www.nbcsports.com/nhl/news/coach-cooper-explains-why-stamkos-is-a-winger-now

He won two Cups at center (played in three) and certainly played more at that position than at wing. Neither of those things are true of Stamkos. Stamkos has played the majority of his career at wing and all of his Cup runs were played there. He's neither been a frequent center nor a successful one.

I actually don't. I remember Zetterberg on Datsyuk's wing. Datsyuk broke in at center and played there more or less without interruption for his whole career. If anything I'd argue that Zetterberg was more like Stamkos. He achieved all his best career seasons on the wing AND never won a Cup at center.

Look doofus, if you're dying to win an internet argument about whether Stamkos can play center (despite hardly ever doing so) then go nuts. However, if you sincerely want to make the point that we need an upgrade at center (like your original post tries to do) then Stamkos isn't your guy. You decide what you're trying to accomplish here. Okay, I'll caveat it. Stamkos has not CONSISTENTLY played center in years. You win. If either of you think signing him to play center on THIS team RIGHT NOW is a good idea you're on crack. That's my actual point here.

Lots of people CAN play center. I never said Stamkos CAN'T play there, I said he's not good at it. No surprise that Tampa stopped getting humiliated in the playoffs and started winning Cups once he was moved to the wing. Also, since when you do care about hockey journalists' points of view? I've noticed you doing this a lot lately. Rail against the hockey media and then talk about Selke voting as if guys like Corey Pronman and Scott Wheeler aren't doing the voting. Either they're fools who shouldn't be listened to or they're credible. Pick one.

Dude, for the zillionth time Steven Stamkos hasn't played center in years and wasn't good at it when he did. That's why they moved him to the wing. He didn't play center during any of their Cup runs and has no value there. I agree we need quality centers, but he's not one.

Who cares? I'd rather guys be effective when they DO arrive than guys who are mediocre but in the lineup immediately. Raymond isn't a better player than Seider just because he made it to the NHL as a draft +2 instead of a draft +3 player.

Well sure, some of our better prospects are better than bad NHLers but I don't think that's a good reason to bring them up yet. I think that kills development. I've used this example before but if you're not any good at faceoffs you're probably not going to learn by losing ten of them per night against Brayden Point, Crosby, Barkov, O'Reilly, Larkin, etc. right? Likewise you're not going to learn to shoot well if you come to the NHL and defenders close on you more quickly and you can't get your shot off at all, and when you do you're trying to beat Sorokin, Shesterkin, etc. My philosophy is bring prospects up when they're ready. When you're satisfied with their all around game irrespective of their ceilings. Like, right now Edvinsson and Berggren have nothing else to learn in the AHL. Their all around games are dominant. So bring them up. And then fill the rest of the roster with vets. Kasper isn't even a 1C in the AHL yet and we're really counting on him being a 2C in the NHL one day? Let him be a top guy in GR for a season and work on his game, then see if he's ready. Until then, Copp and Veleno will do. This is just my opinion but I think all guys naturally get "faster" as they gain muscle and develop the lower body strength to move their frames around the ice. Seider is still a young, skinny, kid. Once he's squatting 400 lbs he'll be plenty fast. Different thing than "playing fast" though. And I think this is a more important skill. Moving your feet all the time and playing with "pace" is more important. Look at David Perron. Slow skater but never stops moving so he keeps up. Mark Stone is the king of this. Now compare that to Anthony Mantha. Mantha is a fast, powerful, skater who only really skates in transition. The rest of the time he's coasting, so his speed doesn't really matter much.

I forgot Johansson and agree about him. I don't agree about Kasper or Cossa though. Kasper's offense is very incidental and his shot it underdeveloped. He creates a ton of chances for himself and can't finish many because he can't shoot. He has a tendency to double clutch when he receives a pass and is about to shoot. This gives goalies time to get set and defenders time to close distance. I'd really like to see him get another season in GR to work on getting his shot away more cleanly, otherwise you're going to have another Zadina on your hands (a guy who could find scoring opportunities but not finish them because of a bad shot). Cossa has made huge strides in his game and he's learning that for a big goalie the name of the game is positioning. Where to be in the net and how to present to shooters. But he needs A LOT of reps to make that muscle memory IMO. He's largely split the season with Hutchinson this year and I'd like to see him take another year in GR where he starts about 2/3s of the games. Let him carry the load on a winning team and be "the man". Out of all the guys you mentioned Wallinder is probably the only other one that's close to ready. The only reason he's not popping right now is because he's buried behind Edvinsson in the depth chart. When Simon graduates to the big club Wallinder will get all Simon's minutes (most importantly on the powerplay) and you'll see a huge spike in his production. But I think his transition game and defense are already pretty high level. I'd also be surprised if Tuomisto every plays many NHL games. His feet are sluggish. By that I don't mean he's slow. I mean he pivots and changes direction slowly. For instance, when the opposition dumps the puck into GR's zone he'll go back on retrievals and gather up the puck but it takes FOREVER for him to turn his feet, get facing back up ice, and transition to offense. Forecheckers are going to eat him alive in the NHL. Likewise he doesn't defend well in transition because rushing forwards have no problem crossing him up because his feet suck. He needs a skating coach, big time.

The good news is that Mazur has really taken his game to a different level lately. A month ago I'd have said that Berggren and Edvinsson are the only NHL ready prospects we have. But Mazur is there, or almost there, now. With a full offseason to train I think he easily handles a depth spot in the NHL next season.

I think he 100% DOES think that way. But if that's the case then why bring Sprong, Gost, Fischer, Kane, etc. onto the team and then not trade them? If Larkin is going to be the grizzled vet on the team then why are you acquiring guys older than him to fill spots that younger guys could be filling? I imagine the answer to that question is the same as the answer to the question "if you wanted to get harder to play against why sign Kostin and Holl and then not play them?". It's like they want to have options but don't want to commit to anything. "We wanna be harder to play against but we ALSO want to ice a roster with eight sub-6ft wingers". "We need to play better defense but our defense and goalies are all bargain bin castoffs". "We want to see our young guys develop so we're going to bury them in the depth chart". "We want to make the playoffs but we're not willing to spend 3rd round picks to make it happen". Right now things seem VERY directionless.