krsmith17

Nope, you're right, there is no "guarantee", but I would say that the chance that NONE of those nine centers make it, are slim (0.00000001%) to none... There is also no guarantee that Mantha, Sproul or Mrazek ever make an impact in the NHL, but I would bet a decent chunk of change that they all will...

Nope, no potential in our defense at all... DeKeyser and Smith are what they're going to be. There's no way they're going mature or improve in any way, I mean 24/25 is usually when defenseman tap out on potential isn't it?... Not to mention we have a few stud prospects that if were in any other organization would be playing in the NHL right now... Also, Kronwall is a top 15-20 defenseman in the league and Howard has been playing lights out... You're right, completely mediocre with no room to improve...

You can be guaranteed that AT LEAST one of Athanasiou, Nosek, Janmark, Larkin or Turgeon will pan out, I think 2 or 3 will... That's not even mentioning the other 4 guys we drafted a few months ago, Ehn, Vahatalo, Holmstrom and Kadeykin. That's 9 centers that we have in our system that have a shot to someday become the next big thing. Sure, it's unlikely some of those later picks pan out but it's not out of the realm of possibility either. I really liked our last two picks of the draft but they're a long ways away yet anyway. I think Larkin has 1st line potential while everyone else I would probably slot in as 2nd/3rd line potential.

Dickie, you obviously didn't understand what I was saying, and maybe that's my fault for not explaining it clearly, or who knows... Anyway, what I meant in my last response was, no, I did not suggest using another defenseman in the diamond formation, and yes, I am absolutely, 100% suggesting that they should use two different setups for the two different units. Which would be one defenseman (Kronwall) on the first unit using the diamond formation, and two defensemen (DeKeyser and Smith) on the second unit using the standard formation. I really don't think that's that difficult to understand after me explaining it over and over again, even basically drawing you a picture... Anyway, these guys are pros, I'm sure they can handle two different power-play strategies. How is it any different from the strategy that our top line would play at even strength to the strategy our 4th line would play at even strength? Each unit is taught to play different ways. A line with Datsyuk or Zetterberg can play puck possession, gain the zone and skill their way around the opposition, whereas a 4th line has to chip and chase, grind down low, outmuscle and outwork the opposition. In my opinion, the same goes for the two power-play units. Their are two different skill sets on each unit, so why should they be forced to play the same way? I don't think anyone on the team is capable of playing the middle of the ice as well as Datsyuk or Zetterberg. They can direct traffic and make those one touch passes that no one on the second unit seems capable of doing, hence switching up the strategy. Anyway, this is getting beaten to death and I'm sick of reiterating the same point over and over again. The defense has been solid but needs to generate more offense. Smith needs a shot on the power-play, just to see if he can improve it any. I'm sure he would.

No it is not what I suggested and I never deferred from that. Yes, I do think that two different set-ups would be the best for the personnel options we have for the two units. Nestrasil should not be on the team, let alone the power-play. Helm and Abdelkader are both decent net-front guys but I'd prefer Sheahan over either of those two. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Nyquist, Tatar and Jurco are our only other options until Weiss gets into the lineup. So again, I don't see the harm in having a more skilled player like Smith on the second unit rather than having Nestrasil or any other filler...

LOL Ok Dickie, you're right... It would be impossible to think that a team could have two power-play units, one consisting of 4 forwards and a defenseman and the other 3 forwards and 2 defenseman... How difficult would it be to practice with... 1st PP Unit Net Abdelkader Franzen Datsyuk Zetterberg Kronwall 2nd PP Unit Net Nyquist Sheahan Tatar DeKeyser Smith

My point exactly, this is NOT a rec league, it's the NHL, the best players in the world, they know where to be because they've all been playing forever... Yes, they still need to practice it, but would it be that difficult to practice two different systems? I don't think so. They have to practice separately as two different units anyway, so the only extra work would be on Jim Hiller. There would be no extra work on any of the players whatsoever in my opinion. I agree that you need to be somewhat defensively responsible with the diamond formation because there is only one defenseman manning the point, which is why I suggested switching to the standard formation with both Smith AND DeKeyser or whoever else. But Smith needs to see some power-play time, bottom line in my opinion. Yes, DeKeyser had 18 points at even strength last year as a second pairing defenseman but Smith had the same number of points as a third pairing defenseman...

Euro_Twings, I agree, DeKeyser is a great defensive defenseman with limited offensive ability. I think he will grow into a solid two-way defenseman, but as of right now, he is definitely more defensive minded. Then we have Smith, who is our second best offensive defenseman, behind Kronwall, sitting on the bench, watching the miserable power-play do its thing (suck...). He would be a huge addition to the PP unit but for whatever reason, Babcock refuses to use him there. Bottom line is that Babcock is just too damn stubborn, and once he has his mind set on something or someone, there is no changing it. I honestly think the worst thing that could have happened, has happened. All the reporters in Detroit are asking "why is Smith not getting any opportunity on the power-play?", Babcock's response was, "I'm not getting into every detail why I play everyone and why I don't. That's the beauty of being the coach, you get to decide. You guys get to speculate why I don't do things and I get to decide." To me, that is just adding fuel to the fire... They think I should change things up? What do they know? I'm the best coach in the world. I'll show them... I will mold DeKeyser into the best offensive defenseman in the league. They'll see... Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a little, but you get the point. I do believe his stubbornness gets in the way of his coaching at times. There is no denying he has made a LOT of questionable personnel decisions over the years here in Detroit... C'mon Dickie, you can't be serious? Double the practice time? They're NHL players, how hard do you think it is for them to switch from the diamond formation to the standard formation? They've all played both systems at some point in their career and it would be a simple switch. You really think Nyquist or Tatar or anyone else is going to be all out of sorts, switch from playing the half boards to playing down low? Also, power-plays are always moving when they are effective, players rotating covering positions, it even sometimes switched to two men on the point even when they are only practicing the diamond formation. It's about what parts of the ice are open... Besides, it's not like we would be changing something that is currently working. Our power-play has been atrocious, so what's the harm in trying a new system?... I'll agree that DeKeyser hasn't been THAT bad, and that wasn't my point. My point was that he hasn't been THAT great either, and in my opinion Smith would be THAT much better, so why is he sitting on the bench?...

sjr2012, I mostly agree with your lineup. The top two lines is exactly what I've been saying for a while now. However I would switch Helm and Abdelkader because I think Abby makes a great 4th liner. He leads the team in checking by a wide margin every single year. That's exactly the type of player you want down on your 4th line. And like I've stated before, Abby and Glendening seem to have some chemistry together, he has gotten the primary assist on Glendening's only two NHL regular season goals, while playing limited time together. I also wouldn't take Glendening out of the center slot, he has been absolutely phenomenal in the faceoff department, by far our best faceoff man. On the back end, I'd keep the top pair the same but I'd rather go with the DeKeyser - Smith pairing, they seem to compliment each other very well, and were arguably our best pair when they were together. Then I'd have Quincey paired with Kindl for the time being, but hopefully that would turn into a Quincey - Ouellet pairing very soon. I think that could be a great third pairing.

Like I said Kindl has gotten less power-play time than Smith... Smith has seen a whopping 1:14 on the power-play total this year, while Kindl has gotten 2 seconds less at just 1:12 total time on the power-play.

I completely agree, however Kindl isn't getting any looks on the power-play either. If you can believe it, he is even getting less time on the man advantage than Smith...

Out. He didn't fly with the team. Still in Detroit.

Finally it all makes sense... Babcock said of his thought process in determining the lines: "I just get out the Bingo machine on the back of the bench and spin it around and throw it out". Finally some reasoning behind these lines...

I don't think those lines were THAT bad the other night, pretty close to what I would like to see... Put Franzen in Abdelkader's spot once he's healthy, put Abdelkader in Andersson's spot, bumping him out of the lineup, put Weiss in replace of Nestrasil, and switch Jurco and Helm... Then keep those lines for a few games and let them build some chemistry... Who am I kidding, not going to happen with Babcock as the coach...

Apparently he's going back with the same lines as most of last game... Abdelkader - Zetterberg - Nyquist Tatar - Datsyuk - Helm Nestrasil - Sheahan - Jurco Miller - Glendening - Andersson Kronwall - Ericsson DeKeyser - Quincey Smith - Kindl Gustavsson Howard

Smith arrested twice? Where the f*** have I been? I know Sheahan was arrested for drinking and driving in his infamous Teletubby costume, and he did have Smith's ID, but as far as I know, Smith has never been arrested for anything, let alone twice? I don't get where people get this notion that Smith isn't smart?... He's a little goofy, but I wouldn't say he's not smart, or "not the sharpest knife in the drawer"...

Losing streak at Wells Fargo, I assume he's talking about. We haven't won there since our Cup year in '97. I'll say we win 3-2, goals by Zetterberg, Nyquist and Helm

I don't see Tatar as a future captain (or alternate). Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, but I just don't see it in him...

... And no where there did he say the word "hate". He said he doesn't like Smith, and I would tend to agree with him. For whatever reason Babcock continues to misuse certain players, and Smith is definitely one of them. No defenseman, not named Kronwall deserves more time on the man advantage than Brendan Smith, but yet through 46:01 of total power-play time, Smith has seen a whopping 1:03... If that's not bad enough, a rookie (Andrej f*cking Nestrasil) that was a complete unknown to 'everyone' in the hockey world up until late last season (with the exception of some of us die hard Wings fans) has seen 20:26 on the power-play... Yes, I get that one is a defenseman and one is a forward, and the time for a defenseman is limited because of our 'need' to have four forwards out there and only one defenseman, because you know, that has been working so well... But Danny DeKeyser, who is far less offensively gifted than Smith, is the defenseman staple on our number two unit. Smith would absolutely flourish in that role. He can skate the puck better than any of our defenseman, and yes that is including Kronwall, he has a bomb of a shot, probably as good or better than anyone else on the team, and can pass the puck as good as anyone. No, he may not be as positionally sound as Kronwall or DeKeyser, and that could be cause for concern with our diamond formation, but why not change it up a little? Keep your first unit the diamond formation with Kronwall at the point, Datsyuk in the middle, Zetterberg and Franzen on the half walls, and Abdelkader at the net front, then for your second unit, go with the standard formation with two defensemen, Smith and DeKeyser, with Nyquist and Tatar down low and Sheahan or Jurco at the net front. That way you have two different power-play looks and it will keep the opposition on their toes... Anyway, Smith needs to get some PP time and Babs needs to f*** off misusing certain guys and start playing them to their strengths... Why he continues to keep Smith off the power-play and Nestrasil on it, when he probably shouldn't even be in the line-up and would probably be on Blashill's second unit down in Grand Rapids, is beyond any logical reasoning... And the fact that Weiss still isn't in the lineup and probably won't be for a while, is ridiculous, but I won't go there, try to keep this mostly about defensemen or a particular defenseman at the very least... Smith gets a B+ in my books and would probably get an A if he could get an opportunity to help out on the power-play... But unfortunately, that isn't happening any time soon...

I disagree, Tatar has been getting plenty of ice time, 5th amongst Red Wing forwards (right around where he should be), behind Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen and Nyquist. Tatar hasn't impressed me a whole lot so far this season, he's a good player, but seems to be trying to do too much out there. He needs to simplify his game. Also, Weiss absolutely should be in the lineup, and I think he will be a mainstay by next month.

Kip, I think you're reaching with this whole - players shouldn't switch positions, they should stay at the position that they were drafted - mentality... Using Byfuglien and Burns as examples exemplifies that. It's a lot more tasking to switch from defense to forward or vice versa rather than from center to wing or vice versa. In saying that, we do have one on our current team (Ericsson) as well as a prospect (McKee) that have done that. But in my opinion, switching from center to wing is the easiest transition in the league. That is why you see so many players listed as C/LW or C/RW. I don't know the exact number of players in the league that were drafted to play center but are currently playing wing or vice versa, but I would be willing to bet the number would be somewhat surprising to you...

All NHL players should be able to take a hard pass, whether you're a center, winger or defenseman. I agree that wingers are maybe a little more likely to receive the hard passes on the breakout, but a center needs to be an option on that breakout as well. Besides, I don't think Helm is as bad as you're implying on receiving a pass. The puck was bouncing around everywhere last night, no one could get it to settle down. I seen Tatar and Nyquist both whiff on pass attempts numerous times last night, as well as other players on both sides. Either way, you cannot attribute him being on the wing, to the reason he couldn't put the puck in the net last night or any night for that matter. Helm creates a lot of those chances with his speed. What was the reason he whiffed on that breakaway opportunity? He just has trouble finishing, plain and simple. If he could finish on just 20% of his chances, whether that be on the wing or center, he would be a much bigger threat.

C'mon Kip, you can't actually believe that the reason Helm didn't capitalize on all those opportunities was because he was playing wing instead of center?... I would think if anything, he was able to generate so many of those chances because he was on the wing. His speed is his biggest asset and that is most on display on the boards where he is able to cheat a little on the breakouts rather than playing the middle of the ice... Just my opinion.

I wanted to respond to the discussion of our 4th line in the GDT, but I figured here was more appropriate... Anyway, I think the best 4th line we could put together would be Miller - Glendening - Abdelkader Miller is really underappreciated around these parts, but he is a very durable, serviceable 4th line winger. He's never going to dazzle you, but he always makes the smart play. He's hard on the puck despite his thin frame and is very difficult to play against. He is a big reason our penalty kill has been perfect through 7 games (21 for 21), averaging 3:11 per game. He doesn't have any points yet but his main job is to shut down the opposition, the points will come. He has 11 shots on goal, 13 hits, 10 blocked shots, +2 giveaway/takeaway differential, and is an even +/-. Glendening is starting to get more recognition around here but I still think he is undervalued. He has improved in the face-off circle immensely, from his underwhelming 48.5% last season to his stellar 59.8% (team best) so far this season. He's an in-your-face type of player that can really get under the oppositions skin, a guy every player loves to have on their team. Along with Miller, they are the two best penalty killers we have, Glendening averages 3:18 per game. He has one goal so far this season, but could have had many more, due to his speed and work ethic. He has 10 shots on goal, 10 hits, 5 blocked shots, +2 giveaway/takeaway differential, and is a +1. Abdelkader, while playing surprisingly well in the top 6 right now, I still think he is a great 4th liner. He leads the team in hits by a wide margin with 23, has 3 blocked shots, and surprisingly doesn't have a single giveaway or takeaway through 7 games. Abby has 3 goals and 2 assists, 17 shots on goal and is a +3, he could be exactly what the 4th line needs to get some offense going. Hell, Glendening has 2 career NHL regular season goals and guess who had the primary assist on both goals? That's right, Abdelkader. While Andersson has improved a hell of a lot since last season, I don't see him as a vital part of this team. To me he has just been out there munching up minutes, and while he has done a decent job at keeping the other team off the board, I think we have enough capable guys that he should be expendable. He has no points, and even +/-, 4 hits, 1 blocked shot, an even giveaway/takeaway differential and 7 shots on goal. To me that is not enough contribution, even from a 4th line guy. He has been solid on the penalty kill but not enough to warrant a roster spot in my opinion. We have Glendening, Miller, Abdelkader and Helm that can all kill penalties with the best of them, as well as other that could get the job done if called upon.

I would say... C - Nyquist A - DeKeyser A - Abdelkader