Richdg

Then way do you waste your time? If I am full of crap and do nothing but lie, stop reading. It really is that simple. Pretty simple really......

I realize it is impossible for any fan to know every player on every team. So lets take a look at some numbers. Over the last 3.5 seasons Trouba-everyones favorite white whale has produced the following: 243 games, 23 goals, 65 assists, +18 +/-, 415 hits, 489 blocks, 107 takeaways Over the same period of time De Haan has produced: 252 games, 9 goals, 56 assists, +32 +/-, 452 hits, 583 blocks, 76 takeaways Just for reference the overall rank for De Haan in the NHL is #33 in hits #5 in blocks #6 in takeaways. It might be safe to say that De Haan is a legit top 20 defensive Dman. Subjective yes. But the numbers do back that up. Now what about Carlson? Over the same 3.5 seasons: 247 games 32 goals-24th, 126 assists-13th, +30, 203 hits-not his game, 507 blocks-17th, 139 takeaways-11th. Those are legit top 20 Dman numbers for the league. I am not expecting for us to land either. That would be too aggressive of moves for Holland. Both would make us much better. For reference over the last 3.5 seasons our top Dman in each stat: Dekeyser 258 games Ericsson 368 hits Dekeyser 403 blocks Dekeyser 50 takeaways Green 25 goals Kronwall 77 assists

Since people like to call me a liar. Here you go: Future Considerations #16 Central Scouting has him as an A rated player ISS has him #13 Hockey Draft Central #13 in December Ryan Pike on Hockey Writers #16 in November Sportsbreak #13 in August Sportsnet Jeff Maesk #13 in November He was also the London Knights #1 pick 3 years ago. Which brings me back to the point, he isn't a sleeper. He is a highly rated player. he has been for years. he is on pace for over 80 points this year for London. he will be taken in the first 10 picks in the draft and I bet it will be between 5-7. Save the post. I bet I am right. Just for reference. Some other crazy things I have said over the last 5+ years. tatar and nyquist are 40 point per year guys. Guess what they are. mantha will be our pick. Called it about 5 months before the draft. had Larkin in my final 3 possible for the 2014 draft months before the draft. had svechnikov in my final 3 possibles weeks before the 2015 draft. way off in 2016. didn't do much about the 2017 draft due to personnel issues. Called rasmussen as 1 of 3 possibles the day before the draft. Was discussing the "swedish mafia" stuff a year ago. Got flamed. Now others on this forum are talking about it, using the term and wondering if it is true. But hey what do I know. I lie about everything. Clearly.

Need to correct myself. He is ranked between 5 and 13th by most sites. In most mock drafts he is top 10. The highest I have seen him ranked is 5th. He is having a big year in Junior to date. If that continues he will be a top 10 pick with a good chance at top 5 depending on order. Good offensive RHed Dman are gold.

Not sure how a guy in everyones top 5 can be called a sleeper? He has been a projected top 10 pick for 2 or 3 years now. Sleepers are the guys that rocket up the rankings the last few months before the draft.

Before the day gets any older and we get any drunker..... lol. I do want to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas! To our friends in Canada and the rest of the former British Empire, Happy Boxing day! Yes we all love the RW's and love to talk. The best part is most of the time we do so without getting all personnel. Thanks for another great year talking about the Wings! Hope everyone has a great time this holiday season with their friends and family!

The HoF's in all sports are FILLED with guys that hated practice, came to practice drunk, skipped practice, brought pillows to practice, etc.... Now we have no idea of who is working or not working at it. Giving Mantha 14 mins per game vs Tatar 18, Abby 18, Helm 18, and so on is not using your talent properly. It is wasting it. In this day with so many penalties being called, stars almost have to play special teams to get the minutes they need. Again, nothing to lose. As for Blashill, LOL!!!!! He is still trying to win and thinks that playing old, broken down, expensive players is the way to do it. Last game Mantha had 14 mins of ice time and AA had 8. Think about that. Both of those guys should be 20 mins. There is 0 justification for less. None. Zip. Nada. That is 100% piss poor coaching.

In a full lap around the rink Mantha blows Nyquist away. Not even close. Nyquist does have better agility in traffic.

The Oilers used to say the same things. It will not go on for long.... we were great.... we can rebuild strictly through the draft..... It didn't work. It still isn't working. Every year they have a top 5 pick, take players rated in the top 5 by everyone, and they still suck. Yes they are the best example of sucking there is, no doubt. Chicago, LA, Boston etc.... All have rebuilt much quicker. Those teams also have added big time UFA's and made trades to add in their rebuilds. None of those teams did it 100% through the draft. You need great young talents and great vets in the prime of their careers. That is the part we are missing. Look at our last 5 1st round picks. All are talented and look promising. I guarentee that not all of them will make it. Injuries, failure to develop, over rated talent does happen to every team. There are no sure things in the draft. To say nothing of the later rounds. We have yet to have a guy from the second round or later taken in the 2013 drafts till now to turn into anything. Maybe someone does there is some talent. But again that is 5 years worth of drafts. We have 2 players from the last 5 drafts that have produced. Mantha and Larkin, that is it. Why do we expect the next 5 drafts to be better? There are still only 3 ways to get talent: draft, trade, and sign UFA's. Teams that limit themselves to only 1 method are doomed. You have to use all tools available to win.

No we dont know what happens in practice. But as a former player and coach in many different sports I also know that no practice can be the same as game conditions. You simply can't do it. There are practice players-guys that are great monday through friday and suck on sunday to use a football term, and gamers-the guys that hate practice yet show up every game. Lil bert is a PO monster in the AHL. he produces as many points in the PO's as he does in the entire regular season. Why? No one knows. But it does point to what I am talking about. Until player X is put into game situations-multiple times, you have no idea on how they will perform. Good or bad. But again I ask the question. What do we have to lose? Nothing. No all PKers are not C's. Some are not even fast. Z was a great PKer and has never been a fast guy. Well Mantha is fast, maybe the 4th fastest F we have after the 3 speed guys. His size takes up a ton of space and he plays good D overall. BTW I am just as upset about the way AA is being used or should I say misused.

This I do agree with. It will be hard for us to get any of these guys. Why would a top level UFA want to come here to suck? We need to show some direction to land those guys again. Play it out in our minds for a minute. We do nothing big this off season. Miss the playoffs again after the 2018/19 season and have another bottom 10 season. All 3 of Karlsson, OEL and Doughty become UFA's. We free up 15 million in cap in the meantime. Does anyone really think that any of those 3 guys are going to want to come here? Why would they? Doughty isn't going to leave the Kings and a SC caliber team to come to a bottom dweller. OEL has been on a sucky team for most of his career. You think he wants to continue that? Karlson the same? Now flip it the other way around. we make a move or 2, show we are on the upswing with a good young core. Maybe even make the PO's next season, and we have the cap. Maybe.... just maybe we can lure one of these big timers to join us. Still a very slim chance, but the odds do improve. I do not beleive for 1 second that Carlson alone or the other Karlsson for that matter is going to make us a PO team again. We need 4 or 5 pieces added, 2-3 on the BL. But we have to start somewhere. If not then in a couple of years Oiler fans will start talking about us sucking for so long like we used to joke about the Oilers.......

Even they were not perfect. Neither had great speed-not saying they were slow, neither was physical and could park in front of a goalie, but their lists were very short when it came to weaknesses. But its also too early to say any of the young 5 have serious weaknesses. Let's let them finish developing then judge. Z was in his 3rd full season-at age 24, before he exploded. Datsyuk was also in his 3rd full season before he went off at age 25. AA and Mantha are only 23 now with the other 3 21 and younger. Mantha should hit 30+ goals this year in his second full season. So lets enjoy the development! Then decide if any of these 5 have serious shortcomings.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he is a good penalty killer. But since he is NEVER used on the PK we don't know what he can/can not do either. But today he was 9th amoung the F's in ice time. AA had even less. Both should be getting 20+. If that means PP, 5 on 5, or PK, give it to them. That is how young players learn and develop. Not by sitting on the bench listening to the coach pretend to be Babcock. The fact he never saw the ice the last 90 seconds in a game where we trail by 1 goal is 100% on our piss poor coaching. Lets not put our best scorer out there and hope no knees Kronwall and hands of stone Abby and alwqays knocked to the ice Nyquist can get it done. The end of the game should have been Mantha, Larkin, AA, Z and Green. Our 5 best offensive threats/fastest players. One can make an arguement that Tatar over AA but that is it.

Something we haven't seen in a long time is starting to happen. We are starting to see the terms: Detroit Sell off..... Red Wings in Seller mode....... Red Wing Sell Off....... Been a long time since that has been seen.

Yes that is part of DD's drop. He is a #3 Dman, not a top pair guy. He is also at his best rushing the puck forward with his great speed. Something that he isn't able to do playing with Green. He ahs to stay back and try to be the shut down guy, something he is not. Again part of that is coaching and part is the terrible roster that Holland has put together. In your own pairings listed it shows the need for true 2nd pair guys like De Haan or Cole. That is what I am talking about. Which you and I agree on. This whole it takes time thing is something that needs to go away now. It has been 5 years already and we are only getting worse. So is 10 years of sucking the plan? 15? Another decade of the Dead Wings? That is not ok with me. On top of that We really dont need to do it. We have a good young core of F's. We need 2-3 for the BL. There is no reason why a good GM can't find 2-3 players over the next 2 off seasons.

Green is so bad defensively I think many coaches would use him on the 3rd pair. Look what he has done to Dekeyser. In DD's first 2 full seasons he averaged 25 points each year and was +10 each year while playing is KFQ. The last 2 years while playing with Green his O has disappeared and he has become a -15 per year guy. Neither are top pair guys and it shows. Ever year we have this same freaking debate about don't sign player X.... He is over rated.... we can't afford him.... wait till next years UFA class..... etc.... We didn't go after Niskenen, Shattenkirk, and TBH I doubt we get Carlson either. But imagine that BL with DD. That would be really good. But no. We sit around and do nothing and we hope that we draft some young studs and that they develop someday. That is not a complaint about drafting either. If that is the plan then why did we resign Tatar? Bring in Neilsson? Sign Daley? Sign Green? Resign Nyquist? Resign helm? Save our cap and let those guys leave/trade them. Yes I am a fan of Carlson. Have been for years. But that does not blind me either. If we got Carlson at 7 years 49 million I would be happy as hell! If we signed Carlson at 7 years 70 million I would be pissed off! If come September 2019 we had a top 4 of OEL making 10 million per year, Carlson making 7 million per year, DD making 5 million per year, and 1 of Cole/De Haan making 4 million per year I would be very very happy! That would be a great top 4. It also gives us time for youth to be drafted and developed. Cholowski for example is still 2-3 years away. That is a 5 year development cycle. Yes higher picks should be quicker. But it is not overnight, even with a can't miss prospect like Dahlin. It will take him a couple years to be fully adjusted to the NHL.

We need all 5 of Mantha, Larkin, AA, Svechnikov, and Rasmussen to turn into stars. each is different and has different strengths and weaknesses.They balance each other out nicely.

De Haan and Cole are much better players than Ericsson. Period. They are legit 2nd pair guys, Ericsson is a 3rd pair guy. We have 1 legit 2nd pair Dman on the team or in the suystem-Dekeyser. That is it. You need 2. We have 1. Not hard to understand. You bring in a 2nd. Cole or De Haan at 4 million per is a good deal and makes us a better team. Neither cost us anything. Just sign them. I understand everyones issues with our cap. We all hate it. None of us created this mess. Holland did. It will take work and time to fix it. No 2 ways around that. So we as a team can sit back and do nothing and wait for another 5 years years to be good agian or maybe get a GM that makes moves and fixes our issues. I know crazy idea. Any top Dman that comes here could see their numbers go down. Karlsson isn't getting 60 assists here if he came. Nor is OEL, Doughty, Carlson, Burns, etc.... Green's numbers took a hit his first 2 years here as well. Green was a 3rd pair guy/PP specialist in Washington. Meaning what? Green isn't a top pair guy, isn't a second pair guy, Carlson was ahead of him on the depth chart, and eveyrone is ok with him making 6 million per year. Talk about over paying! I would take Carlson at 7 or 8 million over Green any day of the week.

None of what I said is wrong at all. yes Karlson is a top 10 Dman. There is no debate. You happen to believe he is THE best. That would be top 10 right? I don't think I have ever called him over rated. Fairly sure I said over hyped. Big difference. Daley is toast. he was over valued when he came. This is his 13th season. He has had 1 season were he scored 30+ points. he is 34. Doesnt play over 70 games very often anymore-1 time in the last 4 seasons. A typical year for him was about 25 points. That being said, you know what other Dmen that are 26 and 28 that put up 25 points per year? Oh ya De Haan and Cole. Think Brad Stuart. They fill out our top 4, not make it. Big difference. Both can also be signed for less than what Ericsson currently makes and provide double the O and better D. No these are not guys that you sign to 7 years deals or 6+ million per year. These are guys that you sign to 4 year 16 million deals. Again guys that fill out your top 4. Now if we had a top 4 of Carlson, Dekeyser, De Haan, and Cole that group is still way better than what we have currently. Its not even close. Now dream of the OEL, Carlson, dekeyser and 1 of De Haan/Cole. That would be one of the 5 best BL corps in the league. Thats what I want. All under 30, signed long term. Again the names can be changed. There are many players that fit the description of what I am talking about. Now back to rumors. It is widely being said that the Pens are still looking for a 3rd C that can score. Wonder if they would have any interest in Neilsson? He can score and might want to go play on a team competing for cups? Just a thought. The player being rumored to be used to help get the 3rd C that can score is Cole. So Neilsson and a 3rd to Pitt for Cole and their 1st. Resign Cole to a 3 or 4 year deal no more than 4 million per. BL gets better, Cap hit goes down and we add another 1st in a deep draft.

that would be logical, but in the cap era cheap young players are needed to round out a roster. As for Rasmussen yes. I think he will learn and develop much more playing with Z, practicing with Z, and working out with Z every day than he will in junior for 1 more year.

I dont get why you wouldnt want a top 30 Dman in the league? We need a true #1, a true #2-which is what Carlson is, and a #4 which is what De Haan and Cole are. 10 years ago when we were good was it because we only had Lidstrom or was it because we had Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart? It takes more than 1. Shattenkirk was the only big name UFA last year and he got 4 years at 6.5 per year. Why do you beleive that Carlkson is going to get so much more? 7 year at 7 per is a major contract and what he should get, which is a good rate for a #2 Dman. Just for a reference.... Bob McKenzie was talking before the game that the Kings are hoping to get Doughty resigned for 8 years and anything less than 12 million per year. Now lets take a look at the numbers for Doughty and Carlson for the last 4 full seasons. Doughty: 324 games 43 goals 178 pts. 586 hits 449 blocks 62 takeaways Carlson: 292 games 39 goals 168 pts 292 hits 618 blocks 171 takeaways Is there really any diference between the 2? Most would say that Doughty is one of the top 5 Dman in the league. So what does that make Carlson? If we can get Carlson for 7 years at 7 million per we are lucky! If we can do it for 7 years at 8 million per year we are doing great!

Wilde M. Samuelsson X. Bouchard A. Samuelsson

Load up on draft picks and then use on Dmen. Moving Green gets us a second 1st, moving a Nyquist or Tatar could get us another 1st. This is a great draft to have 3 or more 1st round picks. Here are the guys that I hope we take from: Evan Bouchard 6-2/185 RH Dman. Jared McIssac 6-1/195 LH Dman. Bode Wilde 6-2/195 RH Dman. Detroit kid. Matt Samuelsson 6-4/215 LH Dman. Kjell's son. Kandre Miller 6-3/195 LH Dman. All should go in the 1st round as of today. Adam Ginning 6-3/190 LH Dman. Xavier Bouchard 6-3/185 RH Dman Adam Samuelsson 6-5/240 LH Dman. Ulf's son. All are second through 4th round prospects. If I was drafting I take Wilde and Samuelsson in the 1st round. Then I go after Bouchard and Samuelsson in the 2nd round. 2 RHed Dman and 2 LHed Dman. 4 quality guys that could be around a long time.

without moves we dont have the cap space to bring back green. I want to see all 3 in detroit not so much becasue I think all are ready, but I think they can learn more from working with Z every day for at least 1 full year. Bert is as good as he is going to get, Svechnikov has good ability but having a rough year and Rasmussen looked really good in the preseason. If he looks that good again its going to be hard to so no. At least I hope!

If you take this team right now and subtract Kronwall and Ericsson and replace them with OEL and Carlson-same money currently BTW, we are at least 12 points higher in the standings and fighting for the PO's. Even with our crappy coaching. Add in a good coach and we are pushing for the league lead in points. Yes our BL is that bad. Yes OEL and Carlson are that good. OEL is 26 and Carlson is 27. Prime of their careers. Guys we badly need! Add a guy like Cole or De Haan to pair with Dekeyser and now we have a legit top 4. It really is that simple. Not easy to do mind you and I fully understand all the troubles with making it happen. But a great GM could make it happen. Maybe...... But that is the type of moves I am talking about. There is no one player brought in that will fix everything. We need a few guys on the BL that put everyone on the right pair playing at the correct level and we get a whole lot better. We don't need 10 guys, we dont need to turn over the entire roster. 3 could do it very quickly. Yes it would take a ton of luck. Keep in mind the names I am using are really examples. There are dozens of others guys that could also fit in and do the job. But I use them becasue De Haan, Cole, and Carlson are UFA's this year and then next year Karlson, Doughty, and OEL are UFA's.