jagr68

That is unfortunate about his girlfriend, if true, and I understand that we are supposed to hate Pittsburgh because Crosby plays for them and they beat us last year but you can go to any arena in any city and any sport and have something bad happen to you. People from Pittsburgh have stories about things that happened at the Joe the last two years. To say that they have the most classless fans is a stretch. The problem is evey team always has a few fans that take things to far. To label a whole city or team as classless because of a few fans may not be fair. From what I understand, going to a Flyers game wearing another team's jersey wouldn't always be wise. I'd say they have the worst fans, but that doesn't mean that every Flyers fan acts like that.

Really this comes down to if you like Ovechkin better than Crosby. I may be one of the few that like both of these players. I think Sid is the best playmaker in the league, and probably the smartest player and one of the best skaters and plays good two way hockey (Yes, not as good as Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Hossa), but better than most top forwards. Alex is a beast who has top speed, a hard shot, can hit and the best pure goal scorer. If you like Ovechkin better you're one of those people that still call Crosby a whiner because he complained about getting his teeth knocked out by Hatcher his rookie year and there was no call on the play. People can't get over that. Let them never forget if it helps them sleep. Ovechkin hit a Tampa player from behind on the glass about a month ago and the guy was injured. Play was stopped and he was taken off the ice. Can't remember his name, just a role player, but he still hasn't played since. Nobody talked about it, no fine, no suspension. If that was Crosby everybody would be calling for his head. People see the clip of him "jumping" that Toronto player off the face off, what the clip doesn't show is that same Toronto player slew footed Sid on the opening face off of the game. When you like Ovechkin you tend to ignore things he does that are not so great, and if you like Sid better you tend to do the same thing. Just last game against Florida, Ovechkin got a stick in the face and he went up to the ref and was trying to figure why there wasn't a penalty. People are not calling him a whiner. Lecavalier got sticked in the face a few games back and he was pretty upset and confronted the ref, and no one is calling him a whiner. Ovechkin did score with 20 seconds left to make it 6-2 Florida, and he didn't celebrate. Crosby's comments were actually directed towards Ovechkin taking shots at people after the whistle. That isnt anything new anybody who watches Caps games a lot knows that. He wasn't referring to his goal scoring antics, so you have to take Sid out of the equation and focus on what Cherry said, not Sid. Crosby does celebrate after big goals, he wasn't calling Alex out about his celebrations. Problem Sid has is that anything he says or does, he is under a microscope. I agree with what Cherry said because he is right. I like Ovechkin and I'm one of a few that hope he can break Gretzky's goal scoring record, but I'm tired of his celebrations too. It's one thing to score a big goal, like a big goal towards the end of the game, or a OT in the season or playoffs, or even a milestone goal, but this guy celebrates like every goal is a playoff winner. Last night Iginla broke the Flames points record and in the same game, Lecavalier scored his 300th career goal, you wouldn't know by watching the two celebrate. They have class and they have scored and will score again. Basically, Don is probably making a bigger deal out of it than it really is, but he is right when he says you really shouldn't rub it in the other teams face because it makes them want to take a run at you. No one has done it yet, but he is saying don't be surprised if it happens. No NHL player or team likes to be embarrassed. He named a few players, but just Mario or Yzerman for example, sometimes those guys wouldn't even raise a their stick when they scored. Brett Hull is another one. So yeah, if you're a Ovechkin fan, his celebrations are justified, if you don't they are not.

Wow, lots of Malkin/Pens bashing. The Crosby whining talk isn't suprising, you see lots of that here and other places. I think it will take a few more years for people to forget things he did his rookie year. It took a few years for Mario and Wayne to lose the whiner label, but then again, some still see them today as whiners. I remember Yzerman was sometimes called a whiner. But he lost that label early on. I can't say Sid didn't whine his rookie year, cause he did. But he was 18 and he was young. He still is young. He is much more mature and it a true leader. But people won't let it go. Very odd. The problem Crosby has is that he has so many cameras on him. If he talks to a ref about a bad call, non call, etc, people want to jump on him and call him a whiner. All captains and assistant captains talk to the refs about the happenings in a game. He used to talk to them before he was a 'A' or 'C', (surely not the only player that does so) some will call that leadership others call it whining. Objective. You can watch any game and see players interact with the refs, but if Sid does it, it's whining. People here used to dislike Ken Hitchcock, but the other year he comes out and says Sid whines and dives and now his word is gold. Far as Malkin, I'm not sure where one can accuse him of whining. What he is saying is, he is not sure why Ovechkin goes out of his way to take runs at him. He can take a hit and knows hitting is part of the game. But if you watch the games, Ovechkin goes out of his way to hit him. In fact, it cost the Caps a goal last season by OV putting himself out of the play to go and hit Malkin, that resulted in a odd man rush. Like someone else said, their is something going on between them and no one really knows what. Well, I'm sure some do, but it isn't known to the public. So this is just making a big deal out of nothing. Malkin doesn't know why OV goes out of his way to hit him. So what. I know that any team I played for where a player would put himself out of position to hit a guy would get disiplined by the coach, especially if it cost us a goal. Malkin didn't say the hits were dirty, because for the most part, they are not, just ill advised. I've had guys go out of their way to hit me, and it would confuse me to. Especially when I didn't have the puck. People love OV and I used to like him more. But taking runs and actually trying to injure someone isn't very wise or respectful. People want to say Malkin is a ***** and such. Malkin plays a far different style than OV. OV is a aggressive player, Malkin isn't. One could argue that OV is more of a ***** to go after a guy like Malkin. It's all in your perspective. If OV played against the Wings more than once a year and everytime they played he took runs at Datsyuk people here would not be praising him so much. That's what OV does to Malkin. He is trying to injure him. Claude Lemieux intentonally injured Draper many years back, and Colorado fans thought that was funny. Whether you like the Pens or not, or any team, seeing a guy trying to injure someone else intentionally isn't exactly something great. Far as Malkins hit on Semin. It's borderline. Fans of Don Cherry would agree it wasn't a dirty hit. He had the puck, saw Malkin and turned his back to him. Malkin hit him. He didn't rock him but he didn't back off as much as he could have. He could of leveled him but he didn't. He didn't exactly take it easy though. Cherry sees those plays all the time. He always says never turn your back on a guy coming at you. Semin did just that. I can't totally defend Malkin because he could have eased up, but on the other hand, it's a bonehead play by Semin. Not sure if someone mentioned Malkin ducking a hit by OV, if not, someone will. There isn't much to say about that. Any smart hockey player would avoid getting hit, so Malkin dodged it. I can't say I ever chose to take a hit over avoiding it. Whether that makes Malkin a ***** or a smart hockey player is debatable, but the fact that he he didn't get hit and didn't get injured should say it was more on the smart side.

I think of all the teams that have won the Cup last few years, the Wings have the more talent to do it back to back. They are one of a few teams to not only win the Cup but actually get better in the off season. Watching the Pens play through the playoffs, and how well they played, and I was rooting for them to beat the Wings, as they are my top two favorite teams, but the way the Wings played, owning pretty much the whole series. The way the Wings made the Pens look bad many times in the series, the Wings are a very talented team that only got better by getting Hossa. Saying it's easy isn't the right word, but compared to other teams that have won in recent memory, seems the Wings have the best odds. Like others have pointed out, simply desire and staying injury free, they will be very very tough to beat. But anything can happen. They can be number one in the league again and win over 60 games, but lose to a hungry team in the 1st round. I guess what most can agree on, is on paper, they should repeat. They were the best last year, and no matter what team improved, the Wings improved also. As a Pens fan, I have to admit no team stacks up to the Wings when you look at all four lines and defense. Sure I'd take Malkin and Sid over anybody on the Wings, but as a team, no team can compare. Can't wait for hockey to start. Watching the Pens and Bolts on Centre Ice, and the Wings on local TV, can't beat that!

Yeah can't really argue that. If it was Dats or Zetts getting the media attention Sid gets, most people here would be all for it. But if you went to other message boards, they would say how much they suck. Just how it works. No matter how great Sid is, some people will always think he sucks. And same goes for Ovechkin. For every guy that thinks he's the best, you can count on another thinking he sucks. Still, surprises me how many people compare them and who is better. They play two different styles. Sid will never score 50 goals. He isn't a sniper, he's a set up guy who can also score. Sid is more like Joe Thornton, but obviously better. Ovechkin is a pure sniper, like Kovalchuk. When people compare the two, what are they comparing? Any given year that each of them play (injury free) Alex will, and should, have more goals and Sid should,and will have more assists. Just a few short years ago, people complained that the league didn't have a player that was marketed so non hockey fans would even know who he is. The league and fans wanted a face of the game after Wayne and Mario left. Now they have one and they still complain. The same in the NBA. They chose Labron James and you can still find tons of people that think he sucks and how other guys should be in his place. You can't please everybody. Like the other year when Ken Hitchcock calls Sid a diver than all of a sudden you have Hitchcock bandwagon fans here and other places saying the same thing. Maybe Ken's word is golden, who knows. If Ken says he's a diver, than he is. I love OV. And I think he should be marketed more. But even if he was, after a while people would complain his broken english is no longer funny, they would say it's pathetic, he's been here for a few years now, learn to speak proper english. No matter who is on top, people want to complain and bring them down. People did it to Wayne, Mario, Jagr, Forsberg, and now Sid. But like someone else said. Both of them are getting paid their millions. They could care less what the other is doing. They are good friends. Any time they play each other, they tend to get food before the game or atleast pass the puck around on the ice hours before the game. Same with Malkin, him and Alex usually sit in the stands for a while and chat on gameday. The league can market who they want, the fans can hate it or love it, but the players make their money either way. Ken Hitchcock calls Sid a diver and everybody else jumps on the bandwagon. "Hey, if Ken says Sid is a diver, then he is." That's when it all started.

I love OV too, and it was a great article to read. But I don't see how this makes him better than Crosby. Many players train in July in the off season. Some players train at the end of June, and some players train all year around. None of us know if Crosby or any other superstar happens to be training right now. Far as ESPN naming Sid the NHL player of the year? Much as I like Sid, I can't agree to that either. But like many have pointed out, it's fan voting so what does that even mean. How many times did Mario put up numbers far better than Gretzky (once he left Edmonton, when his numbers mysteriously declined) but people still looked at Gretzky as the best player in the world. OV had better numbers last year but played more games than Sid. If you take points per game the two of them were neck to neck.

Yeah, I can see why Pens fans would be frustrated. I wanted Hossa to stay in Pittsburgh like any Pens fan. I think the problem people have is that many times Hossa and his agent said Pittsburgh was his number one choice to play. I think that had he not said that, the Pens fans wouldn't be so upset. When the free agency period started, I didn't even really think to much about Hossa. I just assumed he would resign with the Pens based on his comments. So it was a surprise to find out he went to Detroit. As far as him going to Detroit, I can't really blame him. The Pens are my favorite team but the Wings by far have the best chance of winning the Cup this coming season. So if he can take less money than offered to play for the Wings one year, fine. Can't blame a guy for wanting to win the Cup. Many in Pittsburgh feel he only signed one year because he plans to win the Cup then go back to Pittsburgh. So maybe you won't hear all those boos that the writer says you will. At the same time, I have heard that he will resign with Detroit after this year because their will be more cap money after the end of next season. Who knows, I'm sure Hossa doesn't even know yet. This season has yet to start so I doubt he has plans for next year.

Yes. My buddy and I are making the 6 hour trip from Michigan to Pittsburgh for game 3. My brother lives there and had two tickets but a medical emergency in his family won't allow him to be there so we are going to buy them. I'll be wearing my Crosby jersey most likely and he'll be sporting his Red Wing gear. Should be exciting!

Yeah I am excited. Hopefully he is fully healthy. They been showing clips of him the last few weeks skating, shooting, and practicing with the team. He looked ready to play over two weeks ago, but I guess it's best to not rush anything. Also helped the Pens have been playing so well without him, he didn't feel like he had to be rushed back to save them. Tonight should be interesting for me. Pens vs. Bolts. My gf's favorite team against mine. If the Pens win i'll be happy, but on the other hand, won't be good for me...

Sure you'll take a D man that plays 30 minutes a night over a forward that plays 20. But come on, any forward would love to play 30 minutes a night. But teams tend to have four forward lines, and three sets of D (typically). Some teams have a extra D or extra forward that goes out every so often. Could a forward play 30 minutes a game? Sure, most of them are in great shape, some better than others. Playing forward you skate a lot more than D. But a guy like Ovechkin, Crosby, Kovalchuk, etc, these guys have the endurance to skate 30 minutes a game. You just can't really give forwards 30 minutes of ice, because you're going to have one line that will hardly get out there.

I don't know what you mean by Ovechkin has outperformed him. His rookie year? Yes. Ovechkin had more points his rookie year, but since then he hasn't. He has more points than Crosby now, but Crosby is injured. When Crosby last played a game, he was tied with Vecavalier with 63pts, to lead the league. Crosby played two or three less games. He was top of the league with his points per game average. I don't like comparing the two because I do like both of them. But you have to remember, Ovechkin came to the NHL at 20 from the Russia Super Elite League. Most would say the top Euro league. Playing against guys good enough for the NHL and guys who used to be in the NHL. Crosby came from the Q, playing junior hockey against guys slightly older than him. So Sid's jump from the Q to the NHL was much more of a change than Ovechkin's jump from Russia to the NHL. Hockey purists don't forget that, and realize how special he is to come to the league and play at such a high level as a rookie and to get better so quick. The idea of even talking about Crosby as possibly being the league's best player adds to the arguement. When is the last time in the NHL you could even consider a player at 18, 19, or 20 being the best in the world, or close to the best? Probably not since Mario or Wayne. Lindros? When he came in he was good, but most wouldn't say he was the best in the world. Better than Wayne or Mario? No. They like to focus on Crosby becaue he is Canadian, no doubt. Any country would love to have their player be the best in the world. Just as the USA is proud of players like Modano. What is great about Crosby though, is how he performs on such a high level every night and at such a young age. Assuming this injury he has doesn't bother him again, and he doesn't get hampered by another injury, the thought of how good Crosby WILL BE in five, six, or seven years down the road is something to look forward too. People question whether he is the best right now, he isn't even in his prime yet. He is compared to guys like Heatley, Thornton, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Iginla, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, and even Malkin. Only three of those guys are under 25. Most players hit their price 25-28 or so. The media does favor him. Is he boring to listen to in interviews? Sure. A lot of players are. Because he gets interviewed more than any other player he would appear to be the most boring player. He does a lot of interviews for FSN Pittsburgh and talks to the media after each practice. He is actually pretty funny, him and Colby Armstrong making fun of each other in interviews, for example (Now that Colby is traded....eek). They don't tend to show that stuff on mainstream networks. The doesn't always work in his favor. When the league picks you as the future of the game, the savior, the next Gretzky, you can't always say what you want. You sort of have to keep it simple and clean. They want to promote this guy to everybody, to get anybody to watch the sport. It hurts a guy like Ovechkin no doubt, because he has such a awesome personality and is really funny, especially with his broken english. Imagine if Crosby were to tell the press, "All I want is to score goal." I wouldn't doubt if Crosby or another Canadian player said that it would come off looking selfish, but when Ovechkin says it it's pretty funny. And it really is. I'd love to see Ovechkin host SNL, he is really a unique and funny personality. It's a shame he isn't promoted as much as Sid. On the other hand, it's not Sid's fault he isn't promoted as much. He doesn't ask for the media attention. People hold it against him though for a reason why they don't like him or why he sucks. But is Sid the best player. Much like Mario vs. Wayne, it's all opinion. You'll find people who think Sid is the best player right now, like me, and others would wouldn't even put him in the top 10. I think winning a Art Ross Trophy with lackluster teammates is very impressive. He did not play with Malkin all the time last year, less than half the season, so to collect more points than anyone, playing with guys like Armstrong, Talbot, Recchi, Christenson, LeClair, and whatever nobody's they had wit him last year not named Malkin is impressive. Great players make guys around them better. Crosby was able to perform with below average players. People are surprised that Richards numbers dropped since the big contract. His best linemate Modin got traded, and Richards numbers dropped. He couldn't really find chemistry with anybody except Vinny and St. Louis, and they wanted to avoid having the big three on one line because they would be a one line team, easier to shut down. He appears to have some decent linemates and picked up 5 assists in his first game with Dallas, and I believe only one goal was a PP goal. Great players need great linemates, but to be a step above a great player, you can make your linemates better. I do agree though, that Malkin isn't talked about all that much now that he is leading the league. Maybe they feel it's only temporary. When Lecavalier gets his game back maybe he'll pass him, or when Ovechkin gets out of his slump, he'll pass him. But Malkin is in a slump too. He at one point had 30pts in 15 games without Sid. I think he only has 2pts his last 4 or 5 games. Malkin was always this good. But before he didn't play first line when him and Sid were separated, and also, when he did play with Sid he played wing. Malkin said it's tough for him to play wing, he prefers center. So to put them together, one of them has to play wing. They are both better centers than wings.

Yeah, they say Hossa will want a lot. 10 million? Maybe. I think when Sid took that discount, that made some people think that it will help lower the rising salaries. So far, it hasn't. Ovechkin signed for even more. I think with Sid getting 8.7 million, it would be hard as a agent (Let's say I'm Hossa's agent) to argue why he should get more than Sid. Sid is MVP, Art Ross Trophy winner and a captain of his team. I can't think of much of a arguement for Hossa to not just demand more, but to even think he should even get 8 million. Sid won't be the highest paid player in the league for atleast the next 5 years, and many would say he is already the best, and probably will continue to get better. Problem is, even though a guy like Hossa doesn't deserve Sid's money, some NHL team will pay him. And as long as a team is willing to overpay players, Sid taking that discount really won't change a thing.

Yeah, as probably the biggest Pens fan on here. My first reaction was that is great. The Pens need a scoring winger for Sid so they don't have to play him and Malkin together all the time. Malkin likes to play with Sid but said he has a hard time playing wing. He's a natural center. That could be one reason he has 32pts in the 18 games without Sid. He is playing his natural position, plus more ice time. Anyone who has watched has seen the Malone/Malkin/Sykora line play very well almost every game. They seem to dominate every time they are out there. With Sid coming back sooner than later you can keep the Malkin line together and add Hossa with Sid. So now you have two very good scoring threats out there. Critics for a while of the Pens feel that there is no winger on that team that can play at Sid's level. They have tried Armstrong, Malone, Christensen, and Sykora. Malkin and him played very well, but they became a one line team and Malkin wasn't playing his best hockey as a winger. Did they give up too much? It's hard to say now. Like many have pointed out, Christensen has some of the best hands in the league, mainly in a shootout, but for some reason he has a hard time using those same hands in a game. He scored a few pretty goals, but that's it. Armstrong, like many fans know is a 3rd or 4th liner at best. They tried him with Sid most of the time because they are best friends, but he just doesn't have enough skill or smarts to stay on a first line with Sid, or probably any team. He does hit though, it's about the only thing he is good for on the ice, but that's it. His biggest asset is he was a very popular guy not only in the locker room but the city. He was very funny and is great towards the fans. My take: Losing Armstrong and Christensen for Hossa (and Dupuis) made the team better on the ice. It may effect the chemestry a bit by losing Armstrong, but only time will show if that effects how they play on the ice. The 1st round draft pick? The way things are going, they will finish anywhere from 3rd to 6th best overal in the standings. With Sid coming back, their is a chance they could take 1st overal in the East. So they may give up the 25th to 29th pick or so. Esposito? That is the real question mark. Year before he was drafted he was looked at as the #1, #2, or #3 pick. Then as time went on he kept moving farther down the pack. Last season was nothing special. And this year, he has something like 55pts in 45games. Sure, it's over a point a game, but when you look at other guys who are the games top player today, they had much better stats in juniors. Also, don't forget. The Pens have three top center all 21 or younger (Sid, Malkin, and Staal). Esposito is a natural center, and lately his coach, Patrick Roy, tried putting him on wing (probably because the Pens are deep in center) and it hasn't been working out to well. Not sure if he's back at center again. And like someone else said, he's been known to be very lazy. So he can turn out to be a real stud in a few years, but just as easily can turn into a dud. You have to take some chances out there. As many know, the Pens will probably be down the same road Tampa Bay went down, having too many guys making too much money. So if your Shero (Pens GM) you know you only have a few shorts years to win a Cup with Sid, Malkin, Staal, Fleury, Whitney, Gonchar, and Letang. So why not take a shot on getting a top three forward? Also, Shero plans on signing Hossa next year. It's known Hossa is a greedy type of guy. But the main reason he left Atlanta is because he is 28 or 29, has not won a Cup, and wants to play for a Cup contender in the prime of his career. So if you're Hossa, the Pens may not be the favorite this year, but they certainly are contenders. Any team in the top of the league is a legit contender. The Ducks and the Wings are the favorites, but the Pens will compete. So I'm saying, sure it's not for sure he'll sign with the Pens in the off season, but it's not guarenteed he will not sign for them either. Him and Sid may tear up the league, and he may want to come back. He may play horrible with Sid and may take less money, or the Pens may not want him back. No one knows yet. Also, adding Gill to the Pens is huge. Doesn't seem like much. But Gill is a 6'7" guy who can shadow the others team forwards. Before, you had to have Whitney or Gonchar do it. They aren't bad, but are mostly offensive defensiveman. So now you have a big body back there that can play tough against other teams top players and give Whitney and Gonchar a bit of a break. Sid has said Gill is very tough to play against, so he is probably going to give other guys a rough time too.

Well if you are a Pens fan, it's obviously not good news. They did beat Montreal the other night without Sid, which is huge. They failed to beat Montreal at all this year and I believe only have one twice in the last 9 or 10 games against them (something like that). I am probably the biggest Pens fan and Crosby fan on here but I don't think they will do so well without him. They are looking at Malkin to lead the team now and he feels like he can. Although his last game against Montreal was proof that he could (his only point being a empty net goal is very misleading for the game he played). But as good as he is, I don't think he can carry this team on his back for a month or two until Sid gets back. I think he'll be able to take over/win some games, but leading a team is never something he really had to do (so far in the NHL, atleast). The Pens play very well against the Caps since the Crosby/Ovechkin battle started, but now the Pens don't have him, it will be Malkin vs. Ovechkin. #1 and #2 in the draft a few years back. This would be the best chance Malkin has to prove himself against the guy everybody said was better than him. Plus it's on Versus so atleast some people will watch on TV! So if your a Pens fan you're going to be holding your breath till Sid gets back. He contributes 43% or so to the teams offense, and it's hard to think guys like Malone, Christensen, Talbot, Armstrong, and Sykora can make up for it.

Well of course it was less than league average. That's why I said it was average with bottom feeder teams. Everybody knows when a team is doing well they tend to have more fans going and more sell outs. When a team doesn't do so well they don't have as many fans. So for a team not doing well, the Penguins attendence was never questioned. A team that was not playing well at all, a team without Mario or Jagr. A team that also saw Kovalev and Lang leave. A team where the top point getter was Dick Tarmstrom. A team without a star. If the only concern was to bring their average of 13,000 or so back up to just under 17,000 (arena seats just under 17K) than the answer would be just to get another star player. In fact, the whole idea of Mario and the owners trying to get the city to build the Pens a new arena because their fan attendence dropped is laughable. That Mario thinks, 'Well, all we need is a new arena and the fans will come. They don't care about star power. They want better parking, newer bathrooms, black seats instead of red ones, maybe drink holders too...' I guess another way to show this is the Pens were asking for a new arena in the 90s, when their attendence was amoung the best in the leauge. The Penguins said back then, without a arena with lots of corporate boxes, they are losing out on millions of dollars that other teams bring in. That's why the whole idea of relocating came from. Not from lack of fan support, but lack of a arena that can bring in true revenue. So before the salary cap, the Pens couldn't afford to pay players like Jagr for very long because even with sellouts and merchandise, they still were losing money. That's why they owed Mario 29 million dollars. They didn't really have it. That's why the NHLPA was upset with Mario, he made good money but they wanted him to ask for even more so other players could ask for more (bring up league average). He knew the Penguins couldn't pay it. (If only Jagr didn't have to play for 10.5 million). Anyways, there was never talk of Chicago in bad shape and relocating because their attendence was bad the last few years. It's because they have been a horrible team. Now they are better and their attendence has gone up. Plus they still made money from corporate boxes. All teams do. Like I said, the Pens problem was the millions of dollars they are NOT getting from corporate sold boxes. A real problem is when a team is doing well and the attendence is still bad. I don't mean Detroit, but Nashville is the best example. Close to the bottom, yet last few years one of the best teams in the standings.

Although some people laugh when players get injured, most do not feel that way. Like him or not, he brings in ratings and revenue for the league. The Pens have sold out every arena they have went to the last two years with the exception of the Florida Panthers arena two weeks ago or so. But it's the Panthers. Ovechkin does have more charisma than Crosby, he has more charisma and personality than most players. I do feel for the guy because the Caps can't seem to get a sellout unless the Pens are in town and the Caps do not sell out other teams arenes when on the road. The Winter Classic on Jan 1st brought the highest ratings for a hockey game on that channel in over 10 years (they say). Is it because of Crosby? More than likely. People complained few years back the NHL doesn't market players like the NBA does and that the league was in trouble when Gretzky and Lemieux retired. Now they have a face for the sport and people complain about that. Should they market more players. Probably. One is better than none I suppose. So some are happy the best player in the game is injured and may not be back for one, two or more months but it will take some of the excitment out. People were looking forward to a nice Art Ross Trophy battle between Sid, Lecavalier, Kovalchuk, and Iginla. Zetterberg is back in the race too. So those that hate hearing about him now, will still hear about him at the end of the year when they present Lecavalier or whoever with the Art Ross and the question will be asked by many, would he have won it, if not for Sid being injured? We'll never know. Sid finally was playing his game scoring 18pts in the last 10 full games played before the injury. It is a shame the injury happened, he was on his way of setting most 100 point seasons in a row, most 100 point seasons from start of career. He still can, but he probably couldn't miss more than 10 games, which is very unlikely. They are estimating 17 or more games he'll be gone. By the way, the problems with Penguins moving was never about attendence. They never had horrible attendence. Their attendence was average amoung bottom feeder teams. Those years they were horrible, they still had higher attendences than teams like Nashville and Washington, for example. Their problem was/is with the design of the arena and not enough corporate boxes. A common misconception is that teams get almost all of their money from fans paying in. They actually get tons of money from corporate boxes. The Pens have very few in the Mellon Arena, fewer than any NHL team. Teams sell their corporate boxes for millions of dollars a year. The Pens do not really have this luxary. If you see the plans of the new Pens arena, it has tons of them, right up their with the top teams.

Wow. lot of opinions on this. Like someone else has already said, the things he did and is doing at his age is incredible. Someone made a good point about Selanne's rookie year, his age, and how other players were doing just as good, but some much better. Like Mario, 160pts in 60 games. Good for 2.66 points a game. That would have been good for 218pts had he played the whole season. That was about 10 years after Gretzky's 215. That is more impressive. Like in todays NHL. I would say a player getting 120pts today is like a guy scoring 150 or 160 over 10-15 years ago. The game just changed so much. Goalies are better, players are better, defensive systems are better and coaching is better. I never was a Gretzky fan either, and I guess I see why some people dislike Sid. The things I would hear about Gretzky, how these plays that he does are so incredible, yet you can watch any given night and you see other players do the same thing. Granted, not all of his plays were average, but it felt like it watching and hearing the announcers talk about him so much. To me, I never really saw him do anything impressive. He was a good cherry picker and he was gifted to almost always having a great team around him. That's what Mario never had early in his career. To me, Mario scoring 199pts on a horrible team other than Paul Coffey, was more impressive than Gretzky scoring 215 on a all star team in Edmonton. Did he change the game? Did he set records that probably won't be broken? Yes. More importantly, he also helped us coin a term for our beer leagues. Anytime one of us scores a garbage goal, or a goal that took no skill whatsoever, we yell out, "Gretzky goal!". Far as Crosby, he doesn't really have a great team around him. Sure, Malkin. They no longer play on the same line, and in his two seasons since he left Russia, they have not played very many games together. When they do, they do put up points, but they lack secondary scoring. People say Crosby isn't much or any better than Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Both of those players are great. You seperate them, they will still produce, but will they put up the numbers they are now? Of course not. Sid doesn't have a Zetterberg. He had limited games with Malkin, and very few games with Mario. And come on Mario was so injury plagued he couldn't finish two months or so. His best linemates in his first couple years have been consistantly been Ryan Malone, Colby Armstrong, Mark Recchi, Erik Christensen, and Peter Sykora. The way I see it, for him to score 102 his rookie year, 120pts last year and win a Art Ross, be 2nd in the league right now playing with the players he plays with consistantly, that is worth the hype alone. The more I watch Sid. The less I see a young Gretzky. The ONLY thing they have in common is they both have great vision. The way Sid plays the game is nothing like Wayne. First, Gretzky couldn't take a hit. One, it wasn't allowed. You just weren't allowed to hit him. And if you did, you'd pay for it. it's said he was never the same after getting hammered by somebody on Toronto or Vancouver, can't remember. Hopefully one day they will get rid of the instigator rule. You see Sidney go in to corners, he'll throw a hit, he takes a beating. He has guys draped on him. The guy has incredible leg strength. He is so tough, maybe the toughest. People say he doesn't fight. And he doesn't. So what. I'd say he is more like a Forsberg than a Gretzky. Look at the top players in the league now. Lecavalier plays with St. Louis almost all of the time, and log more ice time, Zetterberg and Datsyuk play on a regular line almost all the time, and Alfreddson plays with Spezza and Heatley. Kovalchuk plays on a line with Hossa. Sidney has Ryan Malone? Sykoya played in Edmonton last year and led his team with 22 goals? Scotty Bowman was on a radio show a few days ago and said that if the Pens could pick up a top forward to play with Sidney, he could score 150pts or more. Hopefully in the offseason they do get a guy that can play at Sid's level. I think if anybody has played hockey, really at any level will notice they get more scoring chances, and pick up more points when you play with a talented player. So all these people that are sick of hearing about Sid now. If he ever gets that player, or even a top line, you'll be hearing about him even more. He'll score 150 or more for years to come. If he stays injury free, of course.

Well, you can't please everyone. Was just a few short years ago hockey fans wanted a star to be promoted, another household name other than Mario or Wayne, who people who didn't even watch hockey have heard of. Now they have one, and now people are either sick of him, hate hearing about him, think he sucks, overrated, or simply know he's the games top offensive player. Americans may be sick of him, but in Canada they can't get enough. Three press conferences for each Canadian city the Pens played in this past week. Like they said at the beginning of the Vancouver game, they can't remember the last time fans would line up more on the visiting teams side than the home teams side to watch the team practice a half hour or so before puck drop. He does get a lot of hype. He deserves it though. I saw him play live about six times now, and the guy is just unreal. Pens fans love hearing about him, obviously, and if a guy like Dats or Zetts was promoted like Sid, everyone here would be happy but fans across the country would complain too. My girlfriend loves Lecavalier, despises Sid because of the press he gets. Like few have said, that's not his fault, he doesn't control the coverage he gets. She thinks Lecavalier should be just as promoted. And she's probably right, he's the best or second best player in the league now, and the same thing would happen. People would think of reasons to hate him too. People bashed Gretzky (I still do), Lindros, and Mario. People will continue to bash Sid. Far as the game last night, the Pens didn't look good after the 1st period, that's for sure. They did take too many penalties, some of the dumb, and maybe the roap trip wore them out. Also, I think their goaltending was horrible. I'm not saying they would have won with Fleury, but had he been in (and healthy) I think it would have been a much closer game. The Flyers have their number this year. But the Pens left a bad taste in their mouth. Blowing them out 8-0 last year, Sid scoring 6pts, and the only divional series that one team won all eight games. So after losing eight straight against the Pens last season, Sid picking up about 22pts or so in those eight games, the Flyers come out hungry every game. Biron helps to. That guy is one of the best goalies in the leauge. I wish the Wings woulda traded for him last year. But Ozzy is far better than I expected this season. Hasek, he still scares me sometimes.

I see what you are saying, but not all the southern teams have bad markets. Tampa Bay's selling out every game. And one may say, well they have cheat seats. Realistically, so what? They make it affordable. I almost feel ripped off that I paid 76$ plus taxes, service charges, blah ($88 total) for a seat at last nights Wings game against Tampa that I would get in Tampa Bay for $40 or 50$. It's no secret the Wings attendence is poor. I heard people on here talk about it, but after going last night and seeing so many empty seats I couldn't believe it. I figured their would be more people. Tampa has been playing bad lately, but it's a team that by the NHL scheduling we won't see here for a while, and they have superstars like Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Richards. The Wings are getting smarter though. We heard them announce that when Florida, Carolina and some other team come to town they will have $1 hotdogs. That's quite the deal, seeing I paid $6 for two last night. But yeah, most teams, like you said, the Caps, have poor attendence. But Tampa for example, has great attendence. I do agree though, if they do expand it better not be to a southern market. But to Ovechkin, I have to agree. They better make some promises to him in the off season of signing some huge talent that can play with him otherwise he should leave. Sure he loves the area and the people that do like hockey there are huge fans of him. But with this guy's personality, his charisma, what he can do for the sport, he needs to be in a market that can get fans to attend games better than 75% capacity. As great as he is, he can't sell out that arena every night. This may or may not be true, but I heard the only consistant sell outs is when Crosby comes to town, and by watching the games on TV, seems many fans are actually Pens fans who made the drive. For the rest of his career, him and Crosby will be linked. RIght now, he knows Crosby has talent around him. And he knows Crosby has made the playoffs. The Pens are struggling, but they should turn things around and they probably won't put up as many points as last season, they most likely will squeeze in the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed. So he'll see Sid has two years of playoffs under his belt, meanwhile, it's just another year for him at the bottom and never seeing a playoff game starting his fourth year next season in Washington. I do feel bad for the Caps fans who attend the games and love hockey. But when you lack so much fan support, he should feel free to go to a great hockey market. Just imagine the hype if he does turn down a contract offer from the Caps. You can imagine a lot of teams will look at their budget and try to offer him a huge contract. Most teams can't afford him, but realistiically, any team can sign him in July and have until September or October to have their salary down to cap level. That allows two months of trades, releasing, or whatever it takes to free up salary. I'd love to see him go. Dream come true to have him go to the Pens, Wings, or Bolts, my favorite teams. But with the Bolts tieing 24 million or so to four guys, they won't. I can't see the Wings doing it, but anything is possible I guess. And the Pens, that would be the talk of the hockey world if they had Sid and Alex. The Pens don't want to pay that kind of money though. They don't want to spend a lot because they know they will have to pay some big bucks in a few years for guys like Malkin, Staal, and Fleury (although the way he's playing lately, maybe he won't demand as much?).

I am going to tonights game also. My girlfriend is a huge Tampa Bay fan, so it will be interesting. Even though these are two of the best offensive teams in the league, I have a feeling it will be a low scoring game. The Wings style, they tend to really limit the other teams chances. For the most part, the Wings rarely allow more than 20 shots a game. I am hoping for a high scoring game. The Lecavalier line is probably the most dominat line in the league right now, but they did get shut down last night in Chicago. The Bolts are really struggling lately after winning 5 games in a row, not even averaging 2 goals against them, they now are on a 5 or 6 game losing streak. For their sake, this game is very big. To come into Detroit and beat the best team in the NHL, is a huge confidence booster. If they do beat Detroit, I can see them going on another decent streak for a few games. Anybody know what time, or good ways to meet opposing players? She's reallly love to meet Lecavalier. I think it'd be pretty cool, he's up there with Crosby as maybe the best player in the league. Would be nice to somehow meet him. I used to live in Pittsburgh, and sometimes you could catch players going in this long walkway outside. Most of the time opposing players wouldn't sign or talk to you, but sometimes they would. Also, there is the players exit that they drive out if they are not going on a road trip. That's how we met Mario few years back, he drove out in his Lexus and sat in his car and signed autographs. Was really neat. Hopefully there are ways to meet players in Detroit.

Whoever said that Vinny isn't a good defensive player, or a terrible one, whatever was said, makes me wonder how many games they watch. It's no secret he used to be a bad defensive player, and got into it with Torts and was benched, just like Kovalchuk and Ovechkin in years past. Right now, Lecavalier is the complete package. I'm saying that as probably the biggest Crosby fan around. Vinny does it all. He is certainly not a bad defensive player. The first goal he scored was because he forechecked and stole the puck. He plays the penalty kill. Not just to get a shorty, but if you actually watch him, he will go down and attempt to block shots from time to time. How many top forwards do that? I have seen Crosby do that, but not as often. I love Jagr, but have never seen him do that. I used to live in PA, saw many Pens games on TV and live, so I know Mario used to. Never saw Wayne do it. I watch every Lightning and Pens game. The Pens being my team, and Tampa being my girlfriends. Vinny backchecks every shift and does the little things right defensively as a offensive player. Someone made a comment about the pass St. Louis made him. So what, any skilled player would do the same. The guy coughed up the puck, St. Louis had the puck by the boards, of course a goal scorer is going to break out of the zone and wait for a pass. What do you want him to do? Your partner has the puck, you see the two D man standing, are you going to stand around to, or break out for a pass? Right now, those two guys are the best duo in the league. I'm big fans of Zetts and Dats too, and obviously Crosby and Malkin, but right now, it's Vinny and St. Louis. Assuming Crosby and Lecavalier do not get injured. It will be those two battling at the end for the Art Ross. As long as Cheechoo is playing bad, Thornton won't be in it. That guy can only play with talented players and can only score empty netters. San Jose isn't winning as many games as people thought (yet) so he has less chances of scoring empty netters. Zetterberg will be in it too. I can see him in the top 5. Anything can happen. Don't be surprised if Vinny does have another 5pt night. Anyone who watched that game will probably agree he simply dominated.

Wow, a lot of responses to the topic. Some would never want VInny, some would only trade Z for Crosby, some would give up anyone for Vinny. I'd give up anybody for him too, other than Crosby. You can argue about who is better, Sid or Vinny, but Sid being 7 years younger makes him more valuable. Youth is something you can't teach or learn. Vinny finally lived up to expectations last year and scored 52 goals. He can hit, get hit, kill penalties, score shorthanded, and stand up for himself and fight. Not to many players like that. He isn't a defensive liability like he was when he was a kid. Him and Torts got into it many times over Vinny's bad defensive play, but not anymore. He matured. He is the complete package. Somehow Thornton's name got thrown in somewhere. Thornton is not in the same league as Sid, Crosby, Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Sure the guy can pass the puck, but he is someone that NEEDS great players around him. He wasn't putting up Art Ross Trophy numbers in Boston when Glen Murray was his right winger. He now has Cheechoo who is one of the best goal scorers, although off to a slow start. And also, unless the other team pulled their goalie, Thornton won't be scoring many goals. Is it just me or any highlights I see of him he is scoring on a empty net. I think, like most have already said. It wouldn't happen. But what would it take, as the topic says... I am assuming they mean THIS year. Like someone else said, Tampa would want a goalie. That's number one. They don't want a guy in his 40s and a guy at the tail end of his career. Even though Osgood has great numbers, I think most teams and people associate him being a winning goalie on a great team for many years, mainly the Wings. Tampa would want someone to help bring people in the seats still. They were 5th in the league last year in attendence and you can bet seeing Lecavalier was a good reason. This whole talk about Datsyk or Zetterberg for Vinny was going on a while. But really, it doesn't matter who you like better, Dats or Z, Dats is the clear choice of who would FIT better with Vinny. Sure Zetterberg is a all around great player, but Datsyuk is a natural set up man, with some wicked hands. Lecavalier is a natural goal scorer who can also make great players. Zetterberg would obviously play well with him too, because usually, great players can play together (not always, no need to get into this years Rangers and such) but I think most could agree the way Datsuk is, he would be the best guy for Vinny's linemate. Datsyuk can play wing and Vinny has been known to play wing occasionly, but is a more natural center. So you'd have to give up Zetterberg and you can name whoever to go with him, doesn't really matter. They would need Zetterberg but they still would need a #1 goalie, which we can't offer. Also, would Vinny want to come here? This is a guy who gets about 25 minutes a night. When is the last time a Red Wing forward averaged those kind of minutes? Their GM also said he didn't want to be known as "The GM that traded away Lecavalier." So thats a clue it won't be easy getting him. Plus he has great chemistry with St. Louis. Those two guys may be the best due in the league. You can argue about which duo is best, but by far, the top four are Lecavalier/St. Louis, Datsyk/Zetterberg, Heatley/Spezza, and of course, Crosby/Malkin (finally on a line together every game). Also, like someone else said. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Lecavalier is a great player, probably the 2nd best in the world, but the Wings are rolling right now. Second best team in the league. If they need to improve anything, it's their goaltenders. That's another topic. Now, everything changes next year though, because he is a UFA after next season. If contract talks do not go well, or Lecavalier makes it known he will not play for them the season after next, then Tampa would trade him to the highest bidder by the trade deadline. They may not even get much for him because he will be a UFA , and how much can you give up to a guy who may not even be on your team after the summer. Many people say he will go to Montreal after next year. Who knows. What it comes down to is, no team will get VInny this year, and if their is a chance of him getting traded, it will be around next year's trade deadline, only if he makes it known he doesn't want to be a Bolt.

Just ordered it yesterday for Dish! Great news. I was getting worried. Told a bunch of people to come on over Saturday (Oct. 6th) for the Pens home opener! The guy didn't know anything about the NHL Network though. I have a feeling we'll get jipped and won't get it. Probably Comcast only. Sure hope I'm wrong!

Yup. It is on TV. I think Fox Sports has it on. I'll be there. My girlfriend will be decked out in all her Tampa Bay gear. It's only preseason but it should be fun. Last year when we attended Pens game, she got heckled (jokingly) by a bunch of Pens fans for wearing her Lecavalier jersey....and he ended up scoring the OT goal that night!