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Dabura last won the day on May 21

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  1. If we're looking to trade up (probably not advisable), our old friend Jim Nill appears to be soft-shopping the #3 pick... Nill open to trading third overall pick in draft "I have talked to other teams already about possibly moving that pick, getting an established player back," Nill said during an interview on SiriusXM NHL Network. "It gives us lots of options." Granted, we hear this kind of talk every year and it rarely leads to anything. But, personally, I get the sense that Nill intends to load up and brute force the Stars back into the playoffs next season. We all know he isn't exactly gun-shy when it comes to impact trades. Could Tatar/Nyquist + 2nd get it done? (Probably not.) Would it be worth it? (Probably not.) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If we're looking to trade back and get an additional 1st, I think Green + Sheahan + [?] (Holmstrom/Bertuzzi?) could interest Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, maybe others. The Flames could open next season with Mark Giordano, Dougie Hamilton, T.J. Brodie, Mike Green (born and raised in Calgary), Matt Bartkowski, Rasmus Andersson, Oliver Kylington. That's arguably a Cup-caliber D group, at least on paper. Having said all this...the landscape is going to change between now and the entry draft, so what's feasible now may not be feasible then and what's not feasible now may be feasible then.
  2. Yep. McJesus saves! Taylor Hallelujah! The Devils are a liar!
  3. I mean, sure. Taylor Hall hasn't carried a team into the playoffs. But, personally, I don't feel he should be judged based on that. It's arbitrary, it ignores the fact that the Oilers organization was Clown Shoes Central for the better part of the past decade, and it ignores the fact that the 2016-17 Devils were simply not a playoff team. (Honestly, I'm not convinced the Oilers have learned anything or become more competent in any really meaningful way. McDavid has singlehandedly saved that franchise, IMHO.)
  4. So...yeah. Mike Sullivan.
  5. "Say my name." "You're Pontus Aberg." "You're godda--wait, seriously? My name is Pontus Aberg?" "Yes. lol." "lol."
  6. Dude, c'mon.
  7. It's not clear to me how Orlov is "quite a lot better than Trouba in a number of meaningful ways." If you're basing this on the HERO charts, I'll again point out Orlov's low TOI% and I'll again point out that Orlov is a member of a very good Capitals team. These are important considerations. Neither Orlov nor Trouba fits my personal definition of moneypuck. It's more along the lines of Anthony DeAngelo, Jaccob Slavin -- relatively "unknown" players with good upside who probably wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to acquire and who have the potential to become high-value contributors (i.e. perform above their pay grade) for the next few years. Why are you so bent out of shape over people liking Trouba and not discussing Orlov? I mean, I'm not gonna judge you. I like ranting about Ken Holland and will look for any opportunity to do so. But I do feel like you've chosen a weird hill to die complain on. Orlov is not demonstrably superior to Trouba. Orlov is probably less well-known among hockey fans and is definitely less well-known among Red Wings fans. You're being obstinate. We need young, cost-controlled high-end defensemen with real top-pairing potential. Trouba fits the bill. Orlov also fits the bill, but he's two years older and four inches shorter and he shoots left and he's not from Michigan and there haven't been rumors that he's unhappy in Caps Land and there haven't been rumors that he'd love to be a Wing and he hasn't been linked to the Wings in any significant trade rumors. So, yeah, Wings fans are going to give Trouba more love. C'est la vie. Does it make more sense to trade for Trouba now (assuming the asking price is reasonable) or try to sign him several years from now (assuming he hits the open market)? I dunno. Adding Trouba now would, in theory, improve our blue line, which could, in theory, improve our team both in the here & now and moving forward, which could, in theory, accelerate our rebuild. Also, having him now gives us a shot at stretching his next contract (RFA) into his UFA years, which could be a win in the long run. Also, keep in mind: Mike Green is our best defenseman and next season might be his last as a Wing. "But some people in this community believe we should pay an astronomical price to acquire Trouba." And some people in this community believe we shouldn't. You might think you're the smartest guy in the room here, but that isn't necessarily the case.
  8. "People don't want the best defenseman available, they want a guy they 'like.' I'm not one of these people. ORLOV! ORLOV! ORLOV! Orlov is better than Trouba! Orlov is better than Shattenkirk! No one here talks about Orlov! Why does no one talk about Orlov?! You people like Trouba too much. You overrate him. He's not the best defenseman available, he's just a guy you 'like.' I'm not like you people. I'm objective. Can we please talk about Orlov now? When can we talk about Orlov???" Orlov's good. I don't think he's clearly superior to Trouba and I don't think Trouba is clearly superior to him. His HERO chart is filthy... ...but that TOI is a not-insignificant asterisk. As is the fact that he plays for a really good Caps team. Orlov's career stats: 2011-12: 19 points in 60 games 2012-13: 1 point in 5 games 2013-14: 11 points in 54 games 2014-15: 29 points in 82 games 2016-17: 33 points in 82 games Trouba's career stats: 2013-14: 29 points in 65 games 2014-15: 22 points in 65 games 2015-16: 21 points in 81 games 2016-17: 33 points in 60 games So, no, I don't agree that Orlov "outperforms Trouba across the board." Like krsmith said, Trouba's from Michigan and he's been linked to the Wings in trade rumors. That alone could account for why he gets so much love in an online Wings community. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's fandom. You like what you like, you celebrate what you like. Like krsmith also said, true top-tier defensemen aren't really available (and even if they are, we don't have much in the way of ultra-sexy trade chips). There are plenty of defensemen who are as good as or better than Trouba (and Orlov), but Trouba is kinda-sorta-maybe in that sweet spot of being very good but not so good that he'd cost us Larkin and Svechnikov and a first-round pick and a second-round pick. Personally, if we're talking trade targets, I'll say what I've said a thousand times before: we should really be focusing on under-the-radar players that could, potentially, match the production of more expensive players. Moneypuck.
  9. Ah, my bad. I don't think any combination of these players gets it done, though. Which is why I think Trouba, Orlov, et al. are pipe dreams. Ken Holland isn't trading Larkin, he's not trading Mantha, he's (probably) not trading Athanasiou. So, the best we could offer would be, like, Tatar + Saarijarvi. But, hey, maybe that's all it would take. Stranger things have happened.
  10. Fact: Jacob Trouba is a very good defenseman. Fact: Kevin Shattenkirk is a very good defenseman. Fact: Neither Jacob Trouba nor Kevin Shattenkirk has established himself as a legit top-pairing defenseman. "Yet you feel the Wings should pursue Trouba and not pursue Shattenkirk." I think Trouba and Shattenkirk should both be on the Wings' radar. However, I'm assuming Shattenkirk is going to get something like $6M x 7 years. And that's my problem with him. It's not "Shattenkirk is not a proven top-pairing defenseman." It's "Shattenkirk is not a $6.5M x 7 player." Trouba is 23 years old. His cap hit for next season is $3M. He took a step forward this season, showed that he can handle a big role. Considering how hard it is to succeed as a young NHL defenseman and also considering the fact that he was drafted 9th overall (if we're talking defensemen, anything outside of the top three is basically crapshoot territory), I don't feel he's been a disappointment at all. Maybe he's overrated. Maybe Shattenkirk is overrated. I dunno. Do I consider trading Svechnikov for Trouba? Absolutely. Svechnikov is an unknown at this point in time. Trouba is a legitimate top-three NHL defenseman who, given his age, is probably only going to get better over the next few years. I think it's safe to say Trouba would immediately become our best defenseman and quite possibly our best young roster player, period. (Granted, that's not saying much.) Of course, Svechnikov by himself wouldn't get us Trouba. You mention Orlov. A few of us discussed Orlov a few weeks ago, might've been in this very thread. If memory serves, everyone agreed that Orlov is very good and that he should be on the Wings' radar.
  11. Trouba excelled in an expanded role this season. Logged big minutes, played in all situations, played against top talent, drove possession, put up points. He's 23, he's cost-controlled, and he's likely going to improve as a player in the coming years. Is he a proven #1 defenseman at this time? No. Nor is he a 28-year-old bottom-four power play specialist who's probably going to get 400 years x $500 billion from some drunk-ass GM.
  13. 5-0 after 40 mins. GET REKT!
  14. Yup. Duncan Keith - 54th overall (2002) Brent Seabrook - 14th overall (2003) Brent Burns - 20th overall (2003) Shea Weber - 49th overall (2003) Dustin Byfuglien - 245th overall (2003) Mike Green - 29th overall (2004) Alex Goligoski - 61st overall (2004) Mark Giordano - Undrafted (signed in 2004) Matt Niskanen - 28th overall (2005) Marc-Edouard Vlasic - 35th overall (2005) Kris Letang - 62nd overall (2005) Niklas Hjalmarsson - 108th overall (2005) Anton Stralman - 216th overall (2005) Ryan McDonagh - 12th overall (2007) Kevin Shattenkirk - 14th overall (2007) P.K. Subban - 43rd overall (2007) Jake Muzzin - 141st overall (2007) Tyler Myers - 12th overall (2008) Erik Karlsson - 15th overall (2008) Jake Gardiner - 17th overall (2008) John Carlson - 27th overall (2008) Roman Josi - 38th overall (2008) T.J. Brodie - 114th overall (2008) Jared Spurgeon - 156th overall (2008) Nick Leddy - 16th overall (2009) Dmitry Orlov - 55th overall (2009) Tyson Barrie - 64th overall (2009) Mattias Ekholm - 102nd overall (2009) Sami Vatanen - 106th overall (2009) Justin Faulk - 37th overall (2010) John Klingberg - 131st overall (2010) Dougie Hamilton - 9th overall (2011) Oscar Klefbom - 19th overall (2011) Brady Skjei - 20th overall (2012) Damon Severson - 60th overall (2012) Shayne Gostisbehere - 78th overall (2012) Torey Krug - Undrafted (signed in 2012) Brandon Carlo - 37th overall (2015) Jakub Chychrun - 16th overall (2016) tl;dr Fire your amateur scouting staff and outsource from 4chan.