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About Packer487

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    2nd Line Scorer
  • Birthday 05/13/1982
  1. Packer487

    Grade Holland

    I vote B+. Loved, loved, LOVED the Ian White signing, especially for that price. I love that he brought back Eaves. Commodore is fine for what we paid. Conklin was a nice pickup and I like that he cut the cord with Osgood, just because he was a really high injury risk at this point in his career. It was time for Drapes to pack it in as well. On the downside, he overpaid Ericsson, though probably not by a ton with regard to what other players were going for. And I think Drew Miller is a dime-a-dozen player. I don't see the need to pay more than the league minimum for a guy like that. Still, that's a minor issue. I like that we still have flexibility under the cap. I'm curious to see what, if anything, he does (or if he banks it for the new CBA or when the FA crop next year comes around). I feel like the team is probably slightly worse than they were last year, but I also think that's a team that could've won the Cup if they stayed relatively-healthy in the playoffs. White might not replace Rafalski, but for the money he did about as well as he could've.
  2. Packer487

    Osgood should(n't) be included in the HoF...

    That's true about his numbers. And actually that was the very first thing I said in my post. He was clutch in 08. I'll never forget his play during that playoffs. He was fantastic. That year. He's not a top-20 goalie of all-time. This was exactly the point I was trying to make about him being severely overrated and underrated at the same time. The guy was never voted the best goalie in the league for one season. The Wings dropped him in a hot second when Hasek became available (even at age 36) and he had like 3 great seasons in the decade after that. He was a good goalie overall, there were a few season he was great, there were a few seasons he was terrible. I'm not leaving him out just because he was on a good team or because he played with Hall of Famers. I specifically made a point of saying that argument is kind of lame and that it doesn't give him nearly enough credit he deserves (this would be the "underrated" part of the argument). He was clearly a big part of the wins that the Wings piled up over the years. But it's also true that it's highly unlikely that he'd be top 10 in wins if he had played 70% of his career with the Islanders. The team does play a role in it, and it's why I look at more than just wins and losses. I leave him out because in my opinion there were only a 2-3 seasons where I'd have put him in the top 15-20% (that's 5-6) starting goalies in the league. If I was going to throw his seasons into buckets for great (96, 04, 08), good (95, 97, 98, 00, 02), average (94, 99, 07), below average (01,09 only because of how good the playoffs were,11), and horrid (03, 06, 10), it's actually fairly even. 8 season good or great 3 seasons fairly average 6 seasons below average or awful Those are fairly unscientific rankings, but it's still more subpar seasons than I'd want out of a Hall of Fame goalie and fairly in line with my opinion. Good goalie overall, had some great seasons, but had an awful lot of seasons where he wasn't that great. There's no shame in being a really good player for a long time in the NHL and not making the HHOF. I wouldn't put him there largely for qualitative reasons more than quantitative. If it was rare that I'd put him with the greats of a season, I can't put him with the greats of all-time....
  3. Packer487

    Would We Have Won In 2002 If ...

    Hasek had six shutouts in that postseason and put up a brick wall in back-to-back games when we were facing elimination against our arch-rival and their legendary goalie. There's honestly no way to know for sure. The 02 team was the best of our recent Cup teams, but the 02 Avs were probably the best team we faced during any of those four playoff runs, no? I don't think we win that Cup without Hasek. If you put 08 Osgood on that team, we win it. If you put 02 Osgood on that team, I really don't think we do. There's a reason they dumped Osgood and gave up a pretty darn good player and a high draft pick to go get Hasek. He delivered.
  4. Packer487

    Osgood should(n't) be included in the HoF...

    The numbers say absolutely, but I vote no. Full disclosure: Never liked the guy in his first stint with the Wings. He won me over to a point with his play in the 08 playoffs--he was fantastic. I respect the way that he stuck with it and ultimately had a triumphant return in Detroit. It's pretty impressive to have the two best seasons of your career more than a decade apart. Quite honestly, had Detroit won Game 7 against the Pens in 09, there's no argument against putting him in. Maybe that's unfair to hang so much on one game, but three Cups as a starter and top 10 in wins has to get you in, regardless of how good the team you played on was. I'd put him in if for no other reason than keeping Cindy's name off the Cup. But there are a couple of reasons I vote no, and they don't have anything to do with the lame "It was just the team" argument. 1) I just can't see putting a guy in the HHOF who had 2 or 3 years tops where he could be considered a top-5 goalie in the league. 95-96 and 07-08. It's pretty remarkable that he did it more than a decade apart, but that's really it. I'm sure people could make a case for another season or two, and that's fine, but I feel the HHOF should be for the elite. He got to that level for a couple of seasons, but certainly didn't sustain it for any amount of time. 2) Moreso, though, I just keep coming back to this. If you consider him a HHOFer, then the story goes like this: The Red Wings had a 28 year old future Hall of Famer. When a 36(ish)-year-old future Hall of Famer in Dominik Hasek came on the market the Wings couldn't jump on him fast enough. So then they had a 28-year-old future HOFer that was available. Surely teams would fall over themselves lining up and Detroit would get a nice return? Didn't happen. We got nothing in return. What happened after that? (And I'm trying to be as balanced as possible with these evaluations) 01-02: Good season for the Islanders 02-03: Save % below .900. Bad. 03-04: Really good season for the Blues. 05-06: Save % below .900 for the Wings. Bad. 06-07: Meh. Pretty good numbers, but didn't play much. 07-08: Fantastic season. I'd probably argue that it was the best year of his career. 08-09: Career worst in GAA. Career low in Save %. Great run in the playoffs. 09-10: Below .500, a 3+ GAA, sub 89 save percentage. Didn't play a ton, but ugh. 10-11: Barely played, nothing special. So you've got three really good seasons over the last decade of his career, a couple with a lack of games played, and 2-3 that were somewhere between subpar and awful. I don't think anyone would've argued back in 01 that he was on his way to the HHOF and when you look at it, he really didn't help the resume all that much once he left. The Cup was huge, but he didn't have himself a great decade there... He was a good goalie, but I think the HHOF should be for the best of the best. There's what? 30 players in there who primarily played goalie? The win total puts him there, but I just don't think you can make a case for him as one of the 30 best netminders to ever play. I'd say about 1990 is when I can really start to remember watching hockey, which means right now there are 3 goalies that I've seen play in the HHOF. Roy, Fuhr, Belfour. We know Hasek and Brodeur are locks. I can't put Osgood up there with those guys. Those were the guys you feared going up against. I don't think Osgood ever got to that point, even though he had some great years and finished off a couple of them with Cup wins. But the one Vezina nomination, and the 3 All-Star games (two that he played in) are kind of glaring. Also, maybe it doesn't mean much, but the lack of any international play doesn't help. Really good at times, but not elite. Is it possible for someone to simultaneously be one of the most overrated and underrated/underappreciated players in history? I do think that there are groups of Wings fans that drastically overrate him. At the same time, I think there's a much larger group of people who simply write off his successes to the team in front of him, which is a mistake, especially after seeing what he did in 08. It just seems like there's a pretty high standard for goalies. I don't consider him a HHOFer, but that doesn't diminish what he accomplished in his career one bit. Wow, that post got really long in a hurry. It's been awhile!
  5. Packer487

    WCSF Game 3 GDT: Sharks 4 at Red Wings 3

    Story line worth mentioning: Unless they can get it together and win the next two, Game 4 could very well be the last game ever at The Joe.
  6. Packer487

    Put Ozzy in.

    I have an idea. Let's ***** about a 3 goals against and argue in favor of putting in a guy who hasn't given up fewer than three in a full game in almost five months. Brilliant!
  7. Packer487

    Favre to Sign with Vikings

    Those two games against the Vikings and the debacle today have to be enough to broom Thompson and McCarthy right? There are too many good coaches out there this offseason to let those knuckleheads hang around any longer. Favre won the battles, and this team isn't showing that they have the potential to win the war. This team is going absolutely nowhere and Aaron Rodgers got outplayed by a rookie making his first career start (and the rookie showed a helluva lot more field awareness in the process). The whole front office/coaching staff needs to go. This is terrible.
  8. Packer487

    Favre to Sign with Vikings

    Certainly doesn't look like a guy who's gonna hang it up after this season either, as long as he continues to stay relatively healthy. You can tell he's having fun with Harvin and Rice (and of course AD and that line). Amazing what happens when a GM actually tries to improve his team, huh? I bet Aaron Rodgers would be much happier and healthier if TT had, ya know, signed an offensive lineman instead of sitting on upwards of $20 million in cap space. Not that that's the only problem on that team by any stretch of the imagination. Pretty clear it's time for a change in GB. 4-3, with wins against probably the three worst teams in the NFL. And they took it square in the face in two of the biggest regular season games in the history of the franchise. You just can't lose that game. Not after everything that has gone on. You can't let your former QB come in and roll you for four touchdowns. Where's the pride? Thompson doesn't have a clue how to build a team and McChucklebutt doesn't have a clue how to coach em up. It's time for a change, and it has almost NOTHING to do with Brett Favre. But the fact that they let him go for 500+, 7 TDs, and couldn't sack him says an awful lot about the team they've put together. It's a joke. Hopefully that debacle will be enough to turn up the heat a little.
  9. Packer487

    Favre to Sign with Vikings

    Well I think it's pretty clear who's getting the last laugh. Holy crap..... 16 TDs, 3 picks, and with Minnesota and New Orleans looking like the class of the NFC, almost no chance he'll have to play an outdoor playoff game. How much more of this nonsense do we have to go through before TT and MM are out on their butts and we can bring in someone who actually wants to build a winner, not just be the youngest team every year. A coach who won't tolerate dip-**** penalties like Jolly's would be nice too. But I'm sure "it'll be addressed". Just like pad level.
  10. Packer487

    Favre to Sign with Vikings

    The funny thing is that the Vikings offensive line is NOT that good in pass protection. Before last night, Favre had been sacked almost as many times as Rodgers and he had gotten hit a bunch of times on top of that. There were people legitimately concerned that the line was going to get him killed during the 49ers game. Mark Roman absolutely destroyed him on one play. The Packers just have no pass rush whatsoever. They had one good rush end and they made him a LB and don't let him rush the passer anymore. TT needs to be gone. 5 years into this and the Packers are in shambles on both lines. The offensive line completely blows and the defensive line can't rush the passer at all--though they did a helluva job against Peterson last night. If you're going to build through the draft, you can't bust as many picks as Thompson has (Bustin Harrell, Brohm, Pat Lee, Brandon Jackson, AJ Hawk--yes he's a bust). Look at the Vikings. They've drafted pretty well but they've supplemented their team with some quality free agents. They needed an offensive lineman and they ponied up and got the best guard in the league. Needed a pass rusher? Paid a premium for one of the best ones in the league. Needed a QB? Courted one until he agreed to come. And it's paying huge dividends. The Packers are sitting on 30 million in cap space with no pass rush, no offensive line, one NFL-caliber running back, very, very average LBs for the amount of money they're paying them, no depth at safety, and no heir apparent to their aging corners. And in the last three years, the only free agent of note that they've signed who is still on the roster is Brandon freaking Chillar. You're not going to build a winner being the youngest team in the league every season. Thompson doesn't have a clue and McCarthy is worse. What the hell was that challenge on Rodgers's fumble in the first quarter? He was standing upright! They would've been better off challenging that it wasn't a fumble on the grounds that he scored a touchdown first, then ran back to midfield and got stripped. Same chance of winning it. Maybe we can hear some more about pad level. Another 6-10 season would be a small price to pay to see those jokers out on their asses. This is getting embarrassing. 20 sacks in 4 games?!
  11. Packer487

    Favre to Sign with Vikings

    :ranting: It hurts to watch that guy doing those things in that jersey. But purple is a helluva lot better than retirement. I hope Ted is happy.
  12. Packer487

    2009 College Football Thread

    Yup, like picking up the flag when Mathews was carrying the ND defender on his back, throwing a PI flag on Warren when the ball landed FIVE YARDS out of bounds, etc. The long TD was correctly called back and the ND student video confirms it. The call at the end was a bad call (though there is a still shot that shows that perhaps Michigan's player did have possession first), but nothing else against ND in that game was egregious by any means. Certainly not on the level of Jackson scoring a TD when he was a yard short, Henne's TD getting called back when he was clearly in, etc. As for roughing the snapper, it is a rule. I don't know enough about the intricacies of it to know if that was a good call or not, but they call it in the pros. It doesn't happen that often because usually the ref tells a guy to move before they snap if they line up over the center, but it does get called.
  13. Packer487

    2009 College Football Thread

    Do you think Charlie Weis will "not talk about the officiating" this week and keep bringing up the fact that the ND player's knee was down a yard short of the goalline on the 2 point conversion and that there was no angle that should have definitively overturned the Washington TD? Still, that goalline stand ND had was ridiculously impressive.
  14. Packer487

    Favre to Sign with Vikings

    I can't even imagine what the ratings are going to be for this game.... It's going to be weird.
  15. Packer487

    Favre to Sign with Vikings

    And that is why I don't care what team he's playing for, I'm happy Brett Favre is still in the NFL. God do I wish he was still in Green and Gold. Purple is better than permanent retirement though..... That was magical. Once he's gone for good, there's never gonna be another one like him, so I'm happy to watch and cheer for as long as he's willing to play.