Outsider

come back ozzie...we need you to save us in the playoffs again.

Funny, you would think Jesus would know the difference between "you're" and "your" but maybe not since he spoke Hebrew

There's these people called doctors that have been signing off on this too. You really think a professional hockey team is just going to be going on the word from the player? Don't be silly. And even so, I doubt it was a matter of Osgood being expected to be ready so much as a lack of guys available that were worth moving on.
Edit:
Oh yeah, the same "team player" probably suffered a worse injury playing through the pain earlier in the season when Howard was playing like garbage. He put his own health on the line to try and help the team, knowing full well that these sorts of injuries are harder to come back from at his age. It's fine to be upset that he's not healthy and all; it's disappointing. But don't question the guy's character over it. That's just absurd. The guy loves this team as much anyone who's ever worn the jersey.

howard is the most inconsistent goalie in the NHL. i blamde the team physician. get jimmy on the high cholesterol diet....maybe a few pounds added will make him less of a swiss cheese goalie and he'll be a little squishier and quit giving up HUGE rebounds.

Everyone's written off Osgood his entire career. No doubt his career is winding down, but he was playing well despite injury before going down. If he comes back without pain, it stands to reason that he'll be capable of maintaining a solid level of play. So long as he's healthy, I think there's a good chance he'll start in the playoffs if Jimmy doesn't get going, and we've seen what he can do there.
I'd love for Howard to get more breaks, but I'd rather not have an outsider come in and screw with Howard's head even more. I think he'll get worn down a bit, but he'll get breaks here and there and will get a lot more rest once Osgood returns as Osgood will get more games than usual to get warm and see if he can get it going.
With Osgood and Howard, I think it's far more likely that Jimmy will get signed again over the summer. If he loses the starting job to an outsider, he's gone. I think it'd be a mistake to let that happen. I think this year is going to be a wash for him, but it'll be good for his development. It'll make him tougher in the coming years. Sign he and Osgood up for 1 year each this summer, Osgood for dirt cheap and Howard at low number. Give him another chance to prove it after having a couple of years of ups and downs under his belt. I think we'll see good things.

I don't think this has anything to do with Osgood in any way. He'll be in the same boat competing once he returns and if he wants to come back next season, it's essentially a given that he'll be signed as he'll be cheap and has shown he's already willing to take a back seat.
If Howard were to end up the backup or worse yet, the 3rd guy out, simply put, he's gone come the off-season.
And with some help from Babcock's goalie management (opinion), Howard played himself into this position. I don't think the alleged anti-Osgood slant came in to play, and I think Babcock has been better, though no perfect, this year in handling that angle. He's not stupid and you better believe he realized the mistake of letting a guy rot on the bench in the playoffs. It seems like Osgood and Babcock worked out there issues in general. Babcock's had plenty of praise for Osgood since training camp.
But he's injured now and Howard is letting in 3-4 goals a game on a regular basis. That's the angle here. I'm not saying I like it and I still really would like to keep it to Osgood and Howard as I think Howard will be fine if given some more space and time to develop with Osgood carrying more weight.
I wouldn't have made this move unless I knew something that we simply don't. We're 2nd in the West and finding ways to win games despite missing a lot of guys. We just need to hang in there until Osgood's back and then let the situation between he and Osgood play out to determine who will be the tentative playoff starter and the ready backup.

I have a couple of stories to share with you.
I have a very dear friend named Julie, who, unfortunately, is confined to a wheelchair. She had a wonderful picture of her with Jiri Fischer that she had always wanted him to sign, but could never get done. A couple years ago at camp, one of the volunteers asked if she had the picture with her. He took it to Jiri, and he signed it for her, along with the words, "Sometimes, life is better than we think it is. " When he brought the picture back to her, she and I both were in tears. It was such a sweet and wonderful thing.
A couple years before that, she was close to getting Scotty Bowman to stop and talk to her, but he got mobbed by people. He looked at her and said, "Maybe tomorrow I'll come out." She said it was okay, and didn't think about it. A few minutes later, someone tapped her on the shoulder and said, "He wants to see you."
"He who?"
"Mr. Bowman." He had gone over to where Julie and her husband had parked their jeep and was waiting for her. They sat and talked, just the two of them, for about 15 minutes. She said it was the thrill of a lifetime. I guess good things do come to those who wait.

Then why was it that, when Osgood went in for surgery, and the Wings re-called Joey MacDonald, that Babcock stated that "nothing would change", that they'd continue to "ride Howard" just as if Osgood hadn't been injured, and use Mac in the games that "Ozzie would've played", such as back-to-back games?
It's been clear since 2005 that Babs has a dislike for Osgood. Since Oz went down with injury LAST Season, he was given ZERO opportunity to regain the Starting role.
Babcock has stated, repeatedly that it's because "Howie is our guy. We're sticking with him."
If he allows a DIFFERENT goalie an opportunity to take the Starting job from Howard, where he wouldn't allow Osgood even the opportunity to even COMPETE for it....
Then how does that not make a liar of the man, and prove that it was ALWAYS about "Anyone BUT Osgood gets a shot! ANYONE, including Manny Freakin' Legace!"

If Nabokov clears Waivers, and ends up in Detroit...
AND if he's allowed to even compete for the Starting role, let alone win it from Howard....
That's proof positive that Babcock is a liar with his "Howie is our Starter. We're going to ride him." schtick, and that his bias against Osgood was personal.
Just as some here have opined.

If Nabokov clears Waivers, and ends up in Detroit...
AND if he's allowed to even compete for the Starting role, let alone win it from Howard....
That's proof positive that Babcock is a liar with his "Howie is our Starter. We're going to ride him." schtick, and that his bias against Osgood was personal.
Just as some here have opined.

Honestly, I'm wondering if Babcock isn't already thinking Osgood might be the playoff starter. Howard's not playing well and it's been going on for awhile and during that time, Osgood's improved and we know that it's despite injury. I think they sent him to surgery so he's ready for the playoffs and this doesn't become a lingering issue. He even said last night, "we did this now so we can get him back with 20 games left to get him warmed up and ready to go."

Not yet. There's just no need for it. They both just need to keep playing regularly and if Osgood's rolling come playoff time, give him the nod, as you know he's proven in the playoffs and capable of elevating his game. And again, he has a lot to prove this year too after last years personal disaster.
And honestly, I'm fine with Howard's stock coming down a bit. Considering he's got some weaknesses that have yet to improve and given that they've become a bigger issue lately, it'd be premature to give him a big money contract. He had a great rookie season but he's had a very inconsistent sophomore season. I'm all for keeping him in the fold as I think he's a good goalie who can eventually become the reliable goalie we need, but I wouldn't want to pay him $4-5 million a year, especially after the way this season has gone. If he stabilizes, sign him up for 2 years $2-2.5 million if he'll take it. Unless he comes back and wins us a Stanley Cup, it'd be idiotic to give him any more than that after this year. Sign Osgood up for 1-2 years at around a million and we'll be in good shape again next year with minimal cap hit coming from the goalies.
I think Howard will be fine long run, but they need to get back to developing him into an NHL starter as opposed to forcing him into it when he's not ready. Those rookie fumes can do wonders for you, but as the playoffs and his sophomore season has proven, they only get you so far. Even if your a skilled goalie in many ways, over time your weaknesses become more and more glaring and you've got to tighten it up or guys will work you out. He needs to work on the butterfly-happy stuff, the rebounds and puck control/movement. The recent flopping stuff I think is just part of playing down and desperate; I'm not worried that it'll stick. Let him learn from watching Osgood more with less pressure this year and next and I really think a lot of the weaknesses will work themselves out and he'll be ready to be a career NHL starter after next season.

It's pretty simple, VM:
If Babcock turns to Osgood now, odds are Ozzie is so fired up and hungry for the #1 spot, that he TAKES it. And never looks back.
What does that mean for Mike Babcock?
It means he was WRONG about the goaltending. It means that he was WRONG to stick with Howard as the Wings were driven to 7 Games against an inferior opponent, and bounced in 5 Games against a choke Team which was swept in the next Round.
It means that he made the WRONG decision to declare Howard the Starter to open this Season, without a hint of competition for the spot.
For those who state that "Howard is the Starter. You have to stick with your Starter."
Says WHO? What justifies keeping Howard as the Starter, when his "back-up" is outplaying him. Wasn't Osgood the Starter just LAST SEASON....until HIS "back-up" started outplaying HIM. Then a NEW Starter was named, based on merit.
When Legace was the Starter in 2005-2006, and Osgood was the back-up, it was: "Manny's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
When Dom was the Starter from 2006-2008, and Osgood was the back-up, it was: "Dom's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
When Ozzie was the Starter in 2007-2008, and Conklin was the back-up, it was: "Whoever plays better, plays."
When Ozzie was the Starter in 2008-2009, and Howard was the back-up, it was: "We're going with the hot hand."
Now that Howard is the Starter, and Osgood is once again the back-up, it's back to: "Howard's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
Anyone who fails to see the ridiculous double standard here is out of their minds.
It's quite simple. Babcock will NOT allow Osgood a shot, not even a shot, to re-take the Starting role. He'll keep throwing Howard out there, for loss after loss, regardless of HOW he's playing, until the TEAM pulls it together, and Howard starts Winning again.
THEN he can say: "See. It was just a slump. All is well now." Right up until the Wings are bounced out of the Post Season early, again.
He did the same thing in January/February last Season when Howard went 8-5-6, and was giving up 3+ goals per Game consistently. He just kept throwing him out there, Game after Game, after Game.

Gee....ya think?
Babcock is delusional about goaltending. It's his blind spot.
He seems to think that he can manufacture a Starting Goaltender, by sheer number of Starts alone.
He did it with Legace. He tried to do it with Conklin. And now he's doing it with Howard.
Babcock needs to learn that what makes a goaltender a #1 Goaltender is NOT the number of Games he starts during the Season. It's what's between his ears. And you can't FORCE that, no matter how many Games you throw 'em out there.
Babcock seems pig-headedly stubborn, incapable of learning from past mistakes, and unwilling to admit when he's wrong.
Maybe THAT is what kept him from ever being able to make it to the NHL as a Player.

Who says Howard is the future? The guy couldn't crack the line-up for 5 years - not with numerous chances. Holland re-signed Osgood to partner with Legace. Then signed a geriatric Hasek the year after. Then Conklin. Then invited DAN FREAKIN' CLOUTIER to Camp! Howard only made the roster when the Wings ran out of options. And he only "earned" a shot at the #1 spot once Osgood went down with the flu/groin injury.
Since then? It doesn't matter HOW he's played, nor how his partner has played. He's been handed the Starting job, regardless of performance. Osgood hasn't even been allowed to compete with him for the job. He has been DESIGNATED as the Starter, just as Legace was in 2005-2006.
We all remember how well that turned out.
And bear in mind that Osgood is posting similar stats while coming in COLD, after sitting on the bench for extended periods of time, while Howard has had more than steady work to keep him in Game shape.
Babcock mucked up the goaltending in 2005-2006. He mucked it up in 2008-2009. He mucked it up last Season. And he's well on his way to mucking it up this Season.
Sit back and watch it happen.

Who says Howard is the future? The guy couldn't crack the line-up for 5 years - not with numerous chances. Holland re-signed Osgood to partner with Legace. Then signed a geriatric Hasek the year after. Then Conklin. Then invited DAN FREAKIN' CLOUTIER to Camp! Howard only made the roster when the Wings ran out of options. And he only "earned" a shot at the #1 spot once Osgood went down with the flu/groin injury.
Since then? It doesn't matter HOW he's played, nor how his partner has played. He's been handed the Starting job, regardless of performance. Osgood hasn't even been allowed to compete with him for the job. He has been DESIGNATED as the Starter, just as Legace was in 2005-2006.
We all remember how well that turned out.
And bear in mind that Osgood is posting similar stats while coming in COLD, after sitting on the bench for extended periods of time, while Howard has had more than steady work to keep him in Game shape.
Babcock mucked up the goaltending in 2005-2006. He mucked it up in 2008-2009. He mucked it up last Season. And he's well on his way to mucking it up this Season.
Sit back and watch it happen.

LOL @ those who fail to see patterns emerging.
Like the fact that with each passing year, and the loss of more and more "Scotty Bowman/Steve Yzerman Wings", the Wings, (as a Team), get a little bit more scrambly.
Everyone here thinks Babcock is such a brilliant Head Coach. Come on. Dave freakin' Lewis coached this Team to the President's Trophy.
Fact is, when Babcock took over, HALF of the roster was filled with Player Coaches, (similar to Reg Dunlop in Slap Shot). Basically all Babcock had to do was show up, run practices, and fill out the line-up card. This Team knows how to Play. And how to Win.
As more and more of them leave, the Wings are losing more than just "aging Players".
They're losing a fantastic hockey mind, one who sees the game on the ice like a chess board, (Yzerman). They're losing a PP Coach, one who understands, from first hand experience, how to combine skill with grit, and to implement both to devastating effect, (Shanny). They're losing one of the best Defensive Coaches in the Game, one who has seen everything, in a 20+ year career, and knows how to respond in any given situation, (Cheli). They're losing an excellent strength and conditioning Coach, one who can mentor younger Players on what it takes to compete hard, every night, even with a limited skill-set, (Maltby).
As more and more of them leave, and the rest are disrespected by their own coach as "past their prime", their contributions held at little value in a "what have you done for me lately" philosophy.....
Perhaps some of the vets have been alienated. (No "perhaps" about it.....I've heard from multiple sources that THAT is a fact!).
And as more and more of them leave, and the ones who are left are NO LONGER treated with the respect they used to enjoy in Detroit, where they were considered valuable, battled seasoned warriors, rather than "washed up has-beens".....
Perhaps less and less of that "Red Wings Way" is being passed down to the next generation of Wings.
It's funny how people see Yzerman as "ready for retirement". How Shanny was "past his prime". How Cheli was "done". And how Maltby was "waaaaay done.".....
To the younger Players they were role models, guys who had BEEN there, done that, and had the Rings, and the scars, to show for it. And even if these guys were too old to be as effective as they used to be, they still had the knowledge to pass on from FIRST HAND experience.
Rather than someone who's gonna rail on you repeatedly about how to do a job HE was never "good enough" to do at the NHL level.
And while you can make an argument that the aforementioned Players HAD TO go, (and they did, it was their time.....), they didn't have to be treated the way they were BEFORE they left.
And don't think the guys who are left in the Room don't know it. Vet and rook alike. (Ask around......)

Gee....ya think?
Babcock is delusional about goaltending. It's his blind spot.
He seems to think that he can manufacture a Starting Goaltender, by sheer number of Starts alone.
He did it with Legace. He tried to do it with Conklin. And now he's doing it with Howard.
Babcock needs to learn that what makes a goaltender a #1 Goaltender is NOT the number of Games he starts during the Season. It's what's between his ears. And you can't FORCE that, no matter how many Games you throw 'em out there.
Babcock seems pig-headedly stubborn, incapable of learning from past mistakes, and unwilling to admit when he's wrong.
Maybe THAT is what kept him from ever being able to make it to the NHL as a Player.

Who says Howard is the future? The guy couldn't crack the line-up for 5 years - not with numerous chances. Holland re-signed Osgood to partner with Legace. Then signed a geriatric Hasek the year after. Then Conklin. Then invited DAN FREAKIN' CLOUTIER to Camp! Howard only made the roster when the Wings ran out of options. And he only "earned" a shot at the #1 spot once Osgood went down with the flu/groin injury.
Since then? It doesn't matter HOW he's played, nor how his partner has played. He's been handed the Starting job, regardless of performance. Osgood hasn't even been allowed to compete with him for the job. He has been DESIGNATED as the Starter, just as Legace was in 2005-2006.
We all remember how well that turned out.
And bear in mind that Osgood is posting similar stats while coming in COLD, after sitting on the bench for extended periods of time, while Howard has had more than steady work to keep him in Game shape.
Babcock mucked up the goaltending in 2005-2006. He mucked it up in 2008-2009. He mucked it up last Season. And he's well on his way to mucking it up this Season.
Sit back and watch it happen.

LOL @ those who fail to see patterns emerging.
Like the fact that with each passing year, and the loss of more and more "Scotty Bowman/Steve Yzerman Wings", the Wings, (as a Team), get a little bit more scrambly.
Everyone here thinks Babcock is such a brilliant Head Coach. Come on. Dave freakin' Lewis coached this Team to the President's Trophy.
Fact is, when Babcock took over, HALF of the roster was filled with Player Coaches, (similar to Reg Dunlop in Slap Shot). Basically all Babcock had to do was show up, run practices, and fill out the line-up card. This Team knows how to Play. And how to Win.
As more and more of them leave, the Wings are losing more than just "aging Players".
They're losing a fantastic hockey mind, one who sees the game on the ice like a chess board, (Yzerman). They're losing a PP Coach, one who understands, from first hand experience, how to combine skill with grit, and to implement both to devastating effect, (Shanny). They're losing one of the best Defensive Coaches in the Game, one who has seen everything, in a 20+ year career, and knows how to respond in any given situation, (Cheli). They're losing an excellent strength and conditioning Coach, one who can mentor younger Players on what it takes to compete hard, every night, even with a limited skill-set, (Maltby).
As more and more of them leave, and the rest are disrespected by their own coach as "past their prime", their contributions held at little value in a "what have you done for me lately" philosophy.....
Perhaps some of the vets have been alienated. (No "perhaps" about it.....I've heard from multiple sources that THAT is a fact!).
And as more and more of them leave, and the ones who are left are NO LONGER treated with the respect they used to enjoy in Detroit, where they were considered valuable, battled seasoned warriors, rather than "washed up has-beens".....
Perhaps less and less of that "Red Wings Way" is being passed down to the next generation of Wings.
It's funny how people see Yzerman as "ready for retirement". How Shanny was "past his prime". How Cheli was "done". And how Maltby was "waaaaay done.".....
To the younger Players they were role models, guys who had BEEN there, done that, and had the Rings, and the scars, to show for it. And even if these guys were too old to be as effective as they used to be, they still had the knowledge to pass on from FIRST HAND experience.
Rather than someone who's gonna rail on you repeatedly about how to do a job HE was never "good enough" to do at the NHL level.
And while you can make an argument that the aforementioned Players HAD TO go, (and they did, it was their time.....), they didn't have to be treated the way they were BEFORE they left.
And don't think the guys who are left in the Room don't know it. Vet and rook alike. (Ask around......)

Gee....ya think?
Babcock is delusional about goaltending. It's his blind spot.
He seems to think that he can manufacture a Starting Goaltender, by sheer number of Starts alone.
He did it with Legace. He tried to do it with Conklin. And now he's doing it with Howard.
Babcock needs to learn that what makes a goaltender a #1 Goaltender is NOT the number of Games he starts during the Season. It's what's between his ears. And you can't FORCE that, no matter how many Games you throw 'em out there.
Babcock seems pig-headedly stubborn, incapable of learning from past mistakes, and unwilling to admit when he's wrong.
Maybe THAT is what kept him from ever being able to make it to the NHL as a Player.

LOL @ those who fail to see patterns emerging.
Like the fact that with each passing year, and the loss of more and more "Scotty Bowman/Steve Yzerman Wings", the Wings, (as a Team), get a little bit more scrambly.
Everyone here thinks Babcock is such a brilliant Head Coach. Come on. Dave freakin' Lewis coached this Team to the President's Trophy.
Fact is, when Babcock took over, HALF of the roster was filled with Player Coaches, (similar to Reg Dunlop in Slap Shot). Basically all Babcock had to do was show up, run practices, and fill out the line-up card. This Team knows how to Play. And how to Win.
As more and more of them leave, the Wings are losing more than just "aging Players".
They're losing a fantastic hockey mind, one who sees the game on the ice like a chess board, (Yzerman). They're losing a PP Coach, one who understands, from first hand experience, how to combine skill with grit, and to implement both to devastating effect, (Shanny). They're losing one of the best Defensive Coaches in the Game, one who has seen everything, in a 20+ year career, and knows how to respond in any given situation, (Cheli). They're losing an excellent strength and conditioning Coach, one who can mentor younger Players on what it takes to compete hard, every night, even with a limited skill-set, (Maltby).
As more and more of them leave, and the rest are disrespected by their own coach as "past their prime", their contributions held at little value in a "what have you done for me lately" philosophy.....
Perhaps some of the vets have been alienated. (No "perhaps" about it.....I've heard from multiple sources that THAT is a fact!).
And as more and more of them leave, and the ones who are left are NO LONGER treated with the respect they used to enjoy in Detroit, where they were considered valuable, battled seasoned warriors, rather than "washed up has-beens".....
Perhaps less and less of that "Red Wings Way" is being passed down to the next generation of Wings.
It's funny how people see Yzerman as "ready for retirement". How Shanny was "past his prime". How Cheli was "done". And how Maltby was "waaaaay done.".....
To the younger Players they were role models, guys who had BEEN there, done that, and had the Rings, and the scars, to show for it. And even if these guys were too old to be as effective as they used to be, they still had the knowledge to pass on from FIRST HAND experience.
Rather than someone who's gonna rail on you repeatedly about how to do a job HE was never "good enough" to do at the NHL level.
And while you can make an argument that the aforementioned Players HAD TO go, (and they did, it was their time.....), they didn't have to be treated the way they were BEFORE they left.
And don't think the guys who are left in the Room don't know it. Vet and rook alike. (Ask around......)

Howard should have lost his "starter position" a while back. That's the problem I have with Babcock. Osgood has earned the starter position imho. Start the better goalie and win. Pretty simple, really.

Also, for those saying that the Wings are not playing well....that they look uninspired....like they don't want to work for the full 60 minutes.
Yeah. You're all right.
Now consider the reports that nearly the whole Team, led by "Mr. Silent Leader" himself, Nick Lidstrom, went to Babcock and basically forced his hand by calling him out, telling him to "do the right thing" and let Osgood go for #400 at Home, in front of his friends, his family, and the Fans....
You don't think the guys in that room, many of whom have played the major portion of their careers with Osgood, and Won Cups in front of him, don't see what's going on? Don't see the double standard? Don't recognize how ridiculous it is to sit Osgood in favor of a struggling goalie, just to prove a point?
You think THEY aren't wondering what has to happen to get the struggling goalie OUT, and get the guy who's playing better IN? You think THEY aren't wondering WHY Babcock simply refuses to play Osgood? No matter what?
I mentioned it last Season, and was slammed for it.
They don't HAVE TO wonder. They know. And they are NOT happy about it, by all reports.

Osgood over that span:
2-1-1, 2.71 gaa, .917 sv%