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Also, for those saying that the Wings are not playing well....that they look uninspired....like they don't want to work for the full 60 minutes.
Yeah. You're all right.
Now consider the reports that nearly the whole Team, led by "Mr. Silent Leader" himself, Nick Lidstrom, went to Babcock and basically forced his hand by calling him out, telling him to "do the right thing" and let Osgood go for #400 at Home, in front of his friends, his family, and the Fans....
You don't think the guys in that room, many of whom have played the major portion of their careers with Osgood, and Won Cups in front of him, don't see what's going on? Don't see the double standard? Don't recognize how ridiculous it is to sit Osgood in favor of a struggling goalie, just to prove a point?
You think THEY aren't wondering what has to happen to get the struggling goalie OUT, and get the guy who's playing better IN? You think THEY aren't wondering WHY Babcock simply refuses to play Osgood? No matter what?
I mentioned it last Season, and was slammed for it.
They don't HAVE TO wonder. They know. And they are NOT happy about it, by all reports.

Also, for those saying that the Wings are not playing well....that they look uninspired....like they don't want to work for the full 60 minutes.
Yeah. You're all right.
Now consider the reports that nearly the whole Team, led by "Mr. Silent Leader" himself, Nick Lidstrom, went to Babcock and basically forced his hand by calling him out, telling him to "do the right thing" and let Osgood go for #400 at Home, in front of his friends, his family, and the Fans....
You don't think the guys in that room, many of whom have played the major portion of their careers with Osgood, and Won Cups in front of him, don't see what's going on? Don't see the double standard? Don't recognize how ridiculous it is to sit Osgood in favor of a struggling goalie, just to prove a point?
You think THEY aren't wondering what has to happen to get the struggling goalie OUT, and get the guy who's playing better IN? You think THEY aren't wondering WHY Babcock simply refuses to play Osgood? No matter what?
I mentioned it last Season, and was slammed for it.
They don't HAVE TO wonder. They know. And they are NOT happy about it, by all reports.

These are the Red Wings, not Columbus with Steve Mason. If Howard is indeed only just slumping, then why not utilize a goalie with 400 wins and one that has proven recently the ability to give the team a chance to win? Ozzie looks as sharp as he has since the conclusion of the 2009 playoffs. With no Datsyuk and Cleary for an extended period, we need a goalie especially right now that is playing with confidence and can keep the team in a game.
Jimmy Howard has had more than enough chances lately and hasn't been able to do that. No one here is saying everything is Jimmy's fault, but when things aren't going well, why not go with the guy who has won a couple games in his career? The worse thing that could happen is he plays as poorly as Howard and then the Red Wings are just back where they started. If Chris Osgood had a stretch like Jimmy Howard lately, he would be on the bench for months. All I want is a little consistency in Babcock's approach to the goaltenders. If Ozzie is playing well, then he deserves to get some more starts. All this crap about breaking Howard's confidence is quite frankly bulls***. Sit on the bench, work harder in practice and come back stronger. Chris Osgood had to do it even more than he deserved.
Babcock is hurting the team right now by going back to Howard every game. Goalies aren't starters in this league just by title. He's had plenty of chances to get back on track and hasn't done so. It's beyond time to let Ozzie prove he can get the Red Wings wins. Until that happens, I'm sticking to my belief that Babcock has a double standard and continues to prove himself inept at handling goaltenders.

They need to give Ozzie a chance to play. He is full of confidence and should be allowed to show what he can do for the team. I really really want Eaves back in the line up, so hopefully he will be good to go on Tuesday.

Fine. If that's what it is, fine.
Then WHY keep him in there, Game after Game, and allow him to keep struggling, when you have a 400 Career Game Winner outplaying him when he's NOT stapled to the bench?
What happened to Babcock's mantra of: "It's about Winning. It's about who's playing better. It's not about personal accomplishments."?
Or is this no longer the NHL, where the goal is to WIN?
Are these no longer the Detroit Red Wings, whose goal is to contend for the Cup. Every year?
Is it now the Jimmy Howard Developmental League, where the goal is to "season" James Howard, and get him experience?
Ken Holland has ALWAYS held the opinion that he wants his Players, ALL of them, "over-ready" before they take on major roles with the Red Wings. What Babcock is doing flies in the face of that philosophy.
This should NOT be about Jimmy Howard, no matter how promising he appears to be. Because the fact of the matter is that there are MANY "promising" rookies and young Players who just never. pan. out.
Babcock is trying to force the issue. It's going to backfire. Detroit is NOT the place to "test" a rookie goaltender.

It's pretty simple, VM:
If Babcock turns to Osgood now, odds are Ozzie is so fired up and hungry for the #1 spot, that he TAKES it. And never looks back.
What does that mean for Mike Babcock?
It means he was WRONG about the goaltending. It means that he was WRONG to stick with Howard as the Wings were driven to 7 Games against an inferior opponent, and bounced in 5 Games against a choke Team which was swept in the next Round.
It means that he made the WRONG decision to declare Howard the Starter to open this Season, without a hint of competition for the spot.
For those who state that "Howard is the Starter. You have to stick with your Starter."
Says WHO? What justifies keeping Howard as the Starter, when his "back-up" is outplaying him. Wasn't Osgood the Starter just LAST SEASON....until HIS "back-up" started outplaying HIM. Then a NEW Starter was named, based on merit.
When Legace was the Starter in 2005-2006, and Osgood was the back-up, it was: "Manny's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
When Dom was the Starter from 2006-2008, and Osgood was the back-up, it was: "Dom's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
When Ozzie was the Starter in 2007-2008, and Conklin was the back-up, it was: "Whoever plays better, plays."
When Ozzie was the Starter in 2008-2009, and Howard was the back-up, it was: "We're going with the hot hand."
Now that Howard is the Starter, and Osgood is once again the back-up, it's back to: "Howard's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
Anyone who fails to see the ridiculous double standard here is out of their minds.
It's quite simple. Babcock will NOT allow Osgood a shot, not even a shot, to re-take the Starting role. He'll keep throwing Howard out there, for loss after loss, regardless of HOW he's playing, until the TEAM pulls it together, and Howard starts Winning again.
THEN he can say: "See. It was just a slump. All is well now." Right up until the Wings are bounced out of the Post Season early, again.
He did the same thing in January/February last Season when Howard went 8-5-6, and was giving up 3+ goals per Game consistently. He just kept throwing him out there, Game after Game, after Game.

Gee....ya think?
Babcock is delusional about goaltending. It's his blind spot.
He seems to think that he can manufacture a Starting Goaltender, by sheer number of Starts alone.
He did it with Legace. He tried to do it with Conklin. And now he's doing it with Howard.
Babcock needs to learn that what makes a goaltender a #1 Goaltender is NOT the number of Games he starts during the Season. It's what's between his ears. And you can't FORCE that, no matter how many Games you throw 'em out there.
Babcock seems pig-headedly stubborn, incapable of learning from past mistakes, and unwilling to admit when he's wrong.
Maybe THAT is what kept him from ever being able to make it to the NHL as a Player.

Simple, gcom:
It would prove that Babcock was wrong.
Wrong to name Howard the Starter last Season. Wrong to bench Osgood for the entire second half of last Season. Wrong to stick with a struggling Howard in the Play Offs when he had Osgood on the bench. Wrong to name Howard the Starter this Season.
And Babcock will not allow himself to be proven wrong. Period.
We saw that first hand when the stubbornly refused to listen to the wisdom of Steve Yzerman, Nick Lidstrom, Ken Holland, and SCOTTY BOWMAN, as they ALL went to him in 2005-2006, and told him that it was a BAD idea to go with Legace in the Play Offs, and he should start getting Osgood prepared.
He refused. He wanted everyone to know that this was his Team. It was his decision.
He paid for it against Edmonton in 2006.
He paid for it last Post Season.
He'll pay for it again. Watch and see.
The man will NOT admit when he's wrong, and he refuses to learn from his mistakes.

It's pretty simple, VM:
If Babcock turns to Osgood now, odds are Ozzie is so fired up and hungry for the #1 spot, that he TAKES it. And never looks back.
What does that mean for Mike Babcock?
It means he was WRONG about the goaltending. It means that he was WRONG to stick with Howard as the Wings were driven to 7 Games against an inferior opponent, and bounced in 5 Games against a choke Team which was swept in the next Round.
It means that he made the WRONG decision to declare Howard the Starter to open this Season, without a hint of competition for the spot.
For those who state that "Howard is the Starter. You have to stick with your Starter."
Says WHO? What justifies keeping Howard as the Starter, when his "back-up" is outplaying him. Wasn't Osgood the Starter just LAST SEASON....until HIS "back-up" started outplaying HIM. Then a NEW Starter was named, based on merit.
When Legace was the Starter in 2005-2006, and Osgood was the back-up, it was: "Manny's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
When Dom was the Starter from 2006-2008, and Osgood was the back-up, it was: "Dom's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
When Ozzie was the Starter in 2007-2008, and Conklin was the back-up, it was: "Whoever plays better, plays."
When Ozzie was the Starter in 2008-2009, and Howard was the back-up, it was: "We're going with the hot hand."
Now that Howard is the Starter, and Osgood is once again the back-up, it's back to: "Howard's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
Anyone who fails to see the ridiculous double standard here is out of their minds.
It's quite simple. Babcock will NOT allow Osgood a shot, not even a shot, to re-take the Starting role. He'll keep throwing Howard out there, for loss after loss, regardless of HOW he's playing, until the TEAM pulls it together, and Howard starts Winning again.
THEN he can say: "See. It was just a slump. All is well now." Right up until the Wings are bounced out of the Post Season early, again.
He did the same thing in January/February last Season when Howard went 8-5-6, and was giving up 3+ goals per Game consistently. He just kept throwing him out there, Game after Game, after Game.

It's pretty simple, VM:
If Babcock turns to Osgood now, odds are Ozzie is so fired up and hungry for the #1 spot, that he TAKES it. And never looks back.
What does that mean for Mike Babcock?
It means he was WRONG about the goaltending. It means that he was WRONG to stick with Howard as the Wings were driven to 7 Games against an inferior opponent, and bounced in 5 Games against a choke Team which was swept in the next Round.
It means that he made the WRONG decision to declare Howard the Starter to open this Season, without a hint of competition for the spot.
For those who state that "Howard is the Starter. You have to stick with your Starter."
Says WHO? What justifies keeping Howard as the Starter, when his "back-up" is outplaying him. Wasn't Osgood the Starter just LAST SEASON....until HIS "back-up" started outplaying HIM. Then a NEW Starter was named, based on merit.
When Legace was the Starter in 2005-2006, and Osgood was the back-up, it was: "Manny's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
When Dom was the Starter from 2006-2008, and Osgood was the back-up, it was: "Dom's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
When Ozzie was the Starter in 2007-2008, and Conklin was the back-up, it was: "Whoever plays better, plays."
When Ozzie was the Starter in 2008-2009, and Howard was the back-up, it was: "We're going with the hot hand."
Now that Howard is the Starter, and Osgood is once again the back-up, it's back to: "Howard's the Starter. He's our guy, and we're gonna ride him."
Anyone who fails to see the ridiculous double standard here is out of their minds.
It's quite simple. Babcock will NOT allow Osgood a shot, not even a shot, to re-take the Starting role. He'll keep throwing Howard out there, for loss after loss, regardless of HOW he's playing, until the TEAM pulls it together, and Howard starts Winning again.
THEN he can say: "See. It was just a slump. All is well now." Right up until the Wings are bounced out of the Post Season early, again.
He did the same thing in January/February last Season when Howard went 8-5-6, and was giving up 3+ goals per Game consistently. He just kept throwing him out there, Game after Game, after Game.

Gee....ya think?
Babcock is delusional about goaltending. It's his blind spot.
He seems to think that he can manufacture a Starting Goaltender, by sheer number of Starts alone.
He did it with Legace. He tried to do it with Conklin. And now he's doing it with Howard.
Babcock needs to learn that what makes a goaltender a #1 Goaltender is NOT the number of Games he starts during the Season. It's what's between his ears. And you can't FORCE that, no matter how many Games you throw 'em out there.
Babcock seems pig-headedly stubborn, incapable of learning from past mistakes, and unwilling to admit when he's wrong.
Maybe THAT is what kept him from ever being able to make it to the NHL as a Player.

I am not throwing Howard under the bus, I am simply recognizing the fact that there is like 8 points that separates the Wings and 8th place, and if Howard keeps playing like he has been for the past month, the Wings will quickly find themselves at 8th place; especially without Pavs! Quite frankly, I am getting tired of the excuses for Howard every game (The D hung him out to dry, they were unstoppable shots). Guess what, it is the job of the goalie to make key saves at a key time to keep his team in the game and Howard HAS NOT been doing that... that cannot even be argued right now.
Ozzy has been fantastic for the Wings, and the Wings play better in front of him; There is NO REASON that Howard should still be given more starts than Ozzy right now. I want it split 50/50 with the better goalie starting more games near the end and into the playoffs... IMO Ozzy looks to be in the form he was a couple years when they won the Cup and the best chance for a Cup this year will have Ozzy in net. Babcock needs to be smacked in the head so he realizes this.

Re: Selkie's post
Again, I think 'fans', particularly 'expert fans', see things with waaaaaay different standards than people in the biz. Osgood got bombarded by fellow hockey personalities. 400 wins may not be very HHOF or retirement worthy to you, but I once again maintain it's a huge milestone for people actually involved in the NHL level of the sport and will most likely result in HHOF and quite possibly number retirement. There's a distinct difference between "Should Osgood be in the HHOF by your standards?" and "Is Osgood HHOF worthy?" -- the latter is what's judged by people in the business of pro hockey.
My opinion? I don't know if Ozzie "should" be in the HHOF because honestly, there's absolutely no standard set for modern goaltenders. Fuhr, Smith, and Roy are the most recent goaltenders; in regards to the former two, they were the standard of a different era, and in regards to the latter, a top 3 all time player at a position does not set a standard. The same can be said for 2 other locks, Hasek and Brodeur. The next tier, Belfour, Joseph, Vernon, Osgood--these are the names that will set the bar for what's considered "HHOF-worthy" for a modern goaltender. I have no modern comparison for "should" until I see what happens with these guys, and thus, I will make no judgements on "should"... only predictions on what the HHOF will do in regards to perceived standards.
However, I will say this:
If 400 regular season wins, 74 playoff wins, and 15 playoff shutouts--all marks held by 10 or less other goaltenders in the history of the NHL--in addition to 3 cups (2 as a starter), respectable (even if not spectacular) sustained SV% and GAA (and upper echelon for said stats in the playoffs), and the ability to keep a job in one of the hardest positions in pro team sports for 17 seasons (13 of those as a starter that plays ~60 minutes a night for the majority of games in an 82 game season) is not enough to be a Hall of Fame standard, then the standards are too strict on netminders. I don't care how many of those numbers are a "team stat" or how good his team was--you don't get kept around as a player for 14 years (10 years as a key player) on the most successful hockey team for 2 decades unless you're pretty damned good yourself. Success keeps the company of success... and I offer the same argument for other 'debated' names such as Dryden and Fuhr.

You know I am getting a little tired of Babcock cutting Jimmy Howard all the slack in the world. No, the loss was not per say all Howard's fault, but the job of a goalie is to stop a puck, even during times when the team defense is not at its best. Obviously goalies are not going to be perfect when the defense is weak, but Howard is just letting in too many goals the past month and a half or so; it seems to be a trend for him to let in 4 goals these days. My problem is that Ozzy has been looking REALLY solid in net, but then gets the bench for Howard, who is playing average at best. I see that Howard is getting the nod again tomorrow against Philly which makes me mad because I think Ozzy deserves some games here.
All biased aside, I know there are Ozzy fans and Howie fans, but I think Babs should be rotating them and, as the year progresses, give the better goalie more starts, and then use that to determine the goalie for the playoffs. At this rate, I feel every time the other team shoots it is going to go in on Howie (that is what I felt with Ozzy last year) so unless Howie starts outperforming Ozzy, Id say he should be the go to guy somewhere down the line

I thought it was a great celebration, and I was really excited that he scored in his first NHL game. This kid is going to be big. I was sad to hear Eaves was out, but really excited that Tatar was in and that I'd get to see him in his first game. But I thought it was kind of strange how he kind of bowled into Rafi and then went to hug the other guys. But I just chock that up to "what happiness looks like" as Ken said.
I am a big fan of both Ozzie and Jimmy, but one thing I don't like that Babs does is set one standard for one player and a totally different standard for another. When Ozzie plays bad or not up to par, we don't see him for a few weeks to a month, but when Jimmy has a bad or not so great game, he gets another 5 to 10 starts to "work it out and get his game back." I just wish Babs stuck to his philosophy that "you have to earn your spot on the team for each game" evenly for ALL players on this team. I am in no way taking on the "sky is falling" thought process with our goaltending, since this has been mostly just for December only, but I feel Ozzie has definitely showed more consistency that Jimmy and deserves an equal number of starts. I think Jimmy would benefit from some competition to drive him to work on playing consistently both in games against tougher opponents and lesser opponents. Look at the beginning of 2009 between Conklin and Ozzie.
I was at the game last night, and they only showed part of the tribute to Ozzie on TV. What they showed on the big screen at JLA was really special, starting with a clip from his very first start in the NHL (and how young he looked). The arena was so loud with applause and cheers for him, especially when they showed "400 regular season wins." Congrats, Ozzie! You deserved it!
Happy New Year, everyone! Here's to a great 2011, especially a terrific June 2011!

Thank you for posting the link, Rick. As I read it, I just had to laugh. Because the reasons, and the exact same scenarios, (and I DO mean exact - beginning with that loss to the Sharks in '94, and Osgood weeping at his locker afterwards - that's what did it for ME, too), that "Justin" listed as his reasons for holding Oz as his personal favorite hockey player of all time, are the very same that have made Oz MY all-time favorite.
It's funny. It's not that Ozzie doesn't have his warts. He does. God KNOWS he does. He can be downright infuriatingly bad, at times. It's not that he's particularly skilled. He's not. It's not that he has this aura of invincibility. He doesn't.
It's that he has that one quality that NO amount of skill, or talent, or training, or experience, can EVER impart.
Heart. Heart, with a capital "H". He's got it. Loads of it. Always has. Always will.
And that commodity is more rare than, and something I would choose over, elite level talent. Every day of the week.

Thank you for posting the link, Rick. As I read it, I just had to laugh. Because the reasons, and the exact same scenarios, (and I DO mean exact - beginning with that loss to the Sharks in '94, and Osgood weeping at his locker afterwards - that's what did it for ME, too), that "Justin" listed as his reasons for holding Oz as his personal favorite hockey player of all time, are the very same that have made Oz MY all-time favorite.
It's funny. It's not that Ozzie doesn't have his warts. He does. God KNOWS he does. He can be downright infuriatingly bad, at times. It's not that he's particularly skilled. He's not. It's not that he has this aura of invincibility. He doesn't.
It's that he has that one quality that NO amount of skill, or talent, or training, or experience, can EVER impart.
Heart. Heart, with a capital "H". He's got it. Loads of it. Always has. Always will.
And that commodity is more rare than, and something I would choose over, elite level talent. Every day of the week.

Thank you for posting the link, Rick. As I read it, I just had to laugh. Because the reasons, and the exact same scenarios, (and I DO mean exact - beginning with that loss to the Sharks in '94, and Osgood weeping at his locker afterwards - that's what did it for ME, too), that "Justin" listed as his reasons for holding Oz as his personal favorite hockey player of all time, are the very same that have made Oz MY all-time favorite.
It's funny. It's not that Ozzie doesn't have his warts. He does. God KNOWS he does. He can be downright infuriatingly bad, at times. It's not that he's particularly skilled. He's not. It's not that he has this aura of invincibility. He doesn't.
It's that he has that one quality that NO amount of skill, or talent, or training, or experience, can EVER impart.
Heart. Heart, with a capital "H". He's got it. Loads of it. Always has. Always will.
And that commodity is more rare than, and something I would choose over, elite level talent. Every day of the week.

And our problem with you is that you are pissing on the party on something that has barely been accomplished in the NHL, just by 10 people now, and you do not seem to get this whatsoever.
Everybody gets that one of the goals he gave up was junky. Osgood said so as well.
Oh, and he made 45+ saves matching a career high and goalies typically aren't depended on, and shouldn't be depended on to make that many saves in a game. So I'd say it was an amazing performance.
Now I will repeat to you. 400 wins. Very few people have accomplished this. Regardless of how Osgood did this, it is a helluva accomplishment.
This thread should only be about giving him kudos for getting to 400 wins. Not about last year's junky record, not about soft goals he gave up in the playoffs in the late 90s, not about is he possibly going to be inconsistent again this year.
400 wins celebrating ONLY.
Don't be an a'hole and piss on the party anymore is the point, which unforuntately you've happened to do twice. Be an a'hole in an Osgood thread where it is warranted, which isn't this thread.

I really figured we didn't have much of a chance, what with the altitude thing, back-to-backs, and Rafalski, Cleary and Datsyuk out. I mean, how could they possibly pull off a win?
But as I watched Ozzie he looked so calm, so focused. Bodies were flying around the net or landing on him and he just kept his eye on the puck. And for as many games as I've seen him play, it had to be one of his best efforts. He earned that win from every angle.
And to those of you who suggest it was a fluke win, or say he should now retire obviously gained your ten seconds of attention by making such stupid statements, but it doesn't change the fact that he is indeed a champion and a fighter and you will never understand (nor will most of us) how much heart that kid has.

Atta boy, Oz.

Atta boy, Oz.

I find it funny also that so many people want Ozzie in net now after this loss. In saying that, if you actually look back at all my posts since last year (which are not too many) they all support Ozzie because I think he is one of the best goalies when he is on his game. Ever since the emergence of Howie last season, I have been one of the few who, while I recognize his accomplishments, I also recognize his bad rebounds and tendencies to let in really bad goals at really bad times. Take Game 3 versus San Jose last year in the playoffs, the Wings had the lead until Howie let in that brutal goal (some say that costed the Wings the series; I do not agree with that but you have to question it at least).
The fact that I am trying to get at here is that Ozzie is a PROVEN goaltender and is PROVEN to win more often then not when he is on his game. From what I have seen this season so far, Ozzie appears to be on his game and boy did he ever look extremely confident in NJ with his all around play. My question then is, why not do a goalie rotation for the time being... say until the end of January or so. Ozzie actually HAS a better GAA and near save% so why not? Sure, Howie is a good goalie, no one can deny that with his stats and wins, however it is obvious that he also has bad games and lets in untimely bad goals. So why not rotate the 2 goalies for a while and then later in the season start playing the better goalie more and more. By seasons end, whoever performs better should be starter in the playoffs.
I am going to be honest here if I had to choose between Ozzie and Howie in the playoffs I'd be picking Ozzie because I just think the team plays more calm in front of him and he appears to be on his A- game and looks like he wants to take the starter job from Howie just like he did Hasek a couple years ago. But this is just me what do yo all think ?

Howard is the starter coming into the season. He has to hold on to the job you know.

Did you watch the game?