achildr1

So much hate...clearly Holland makes decisions, and has a lot of final decisions in the same way the POTUS does. But the most direct way the competence of a GM can be judged is in trading...because, unless its more of a group setting like for some teams, its basically just his job...his calls. Holland can't scout all of the OHL by himself let alone everywhere the scouts go. Also, I believe Ryan Martin was hired originally as the Cap manager. So that, literally, was his job.

Really?!? Guys....anyone have the article? Do you know that that situation actually happened? Because it did. Also, its one reason why people hated on George W and love Obamanation...its presence. Holland has the presence of a man that can be persuaded to back down. Nill does not. I've met them both and seen countless interviews as well. Its the same you look for in a coach...one of the reasons i believe Dave Lewis failed. Lewis didn't have the presence to set a standard for the team...but Babs does and he knows how to use it.

How old are you? May I ask? I turn 29 this month and I've followed the Wings religiously my entire life from age 8. For some reason i actually retain most of the generally useless history, info, players, trades, and dialogue I've heard along the way. I've followed the Wings for the entirety of Holland's tenure as GM and I have a particular addiction to information I've come across about NHL front offices. I like to think, as a fan, I'm about as informed as I can be enough to make the claims I do. Holland has done a lot of things right in his time with the Wings, but he also had an All-Star cast of Front Office support along the way...not limited to Dellevano, Scotty Bowman (who I believe brought way more than people even thought...and they thought he brought a lot), Nill, Mark Howe, and several others. But since those people have started moving on, his ability to make good trades has nose dived. If Babcock creates good coaches, I believe Holland was created by other good front office people. HE does not seem to be a great stand alone GM. The two things that he is most credited for are also other peoples jobs (cap management and scouting). This is far more than vibes bro, but thanks for playing.

Nill just traded a 3rd round pick for that if we don't make it to the ECF...is he nuts? Is Backman going back to Sweden to possibly save his career and actually get ice time completely indicative of his attitude...or maybe theres more we don't know and he just made the best decision for his career? Backman was said to have Top 4 NHL potential but he was going to be at least a #3 dman, if not #4, in GR. Nill is a smart man. I think he was more important than we knew and I, personally, wish he were our GM. The bottom line is, on a franchise that can offer ice time, Backman is every bit worth a 3rd rounder. He is still young enough to make it basically like taking him with that pick...and he would very much be a good enough prospect in Dallas' system to be worth a 3rd round pick. Add in Janmark and i rest my case.

Ha! Exactly! It's so awesome that we let Shanahan, Yzerman, and Nill walk and have Holland and Ryan Martin now. Anybody ever seen Holland and Martin in person? Especially Martin. Oh...I love Fischer, but he does not seem like a guy that should end up in the front office. Holland and Martin both seem like huge pushovers, with Martin looking like and giving the vibe that he's never played hockey (although he may have) and has no clue what he's talking about. Nill, Yzerman, and Shanahan all have experience and the "i run the ship" look and personas. Im still pissed about how Ilitch asked Holland to step up and let Yzerman in and he wouldn't...YZerman should have been the face of this franchise and I'm sure Holland still would have had his prospect-giving-away hands all over everything anyway...

I think you're wrong. Just because some team wouldn't trade a 3rd for them at the deadline (a fact I'm not even convinced of) doesn't mean that they aren't worth it. Backman is what you'd could hope a 3rd rounder turns out to be...im sure Arizona or Toronto would love to turn a 3rd round pick into a known, young commodity with a decent upside. They'd probably rather do it at the draft tho...not midseason when Backman already went back to Sweden. Jurco should be in GR playing real minutes. Pulkks is destroying the AHL and is the RH point shot on the PP that we need and the one-timer weapon that we've been missing for years. They should have been traded for each other a month and a half ago. Instead, Jurco is buried and getting crap minutes. On a side note, the Nill showing up Holland train is just beginning. I met both of them (Holland and Nill) in Traverse City this summer and i felt confirmation of the vibe i've always had...that Nill was a way bigger piece of the puzzle and may have actually been the smart guy in the room in his time with the Wings. Nill just got two nice prospects, one (in Backman) who i read several good reviews on, and a 2nd round pick for a 36 year old UFA. Thats huge...and he did it to a GM he used to work under and got prospects he knows intimately. Its best case scenario.

FLA just got Jagr for a 2nd and a 3rd. Is Cole better than Jagr? Even if you think so...are Backman and Janmark worth more than a 3rd?

Im starting to feel better about the trade but I hate when its said that because someone is a long shot, its ok that we used them to over pay. Backman was still a pretty well regarded prospect. I bet Nill thinks very highly of him...and probably Janmark too. I bet Poile is thrilled with Jarnkrok...another player that was supposedly "blocked"...and somehow therefore not worth getting back true value for.

I've followed Jarnkrok's time with Nashville this year, out of curiosity. They played him under 10 minutes for a good part of the year and he still has better numbers than most teams 4th liners. Just wait, Jarnkrok is far from done. I, for one, don't understand why Holland routinely pays higher prices than all other teams for his acquisitions. Not only that...youd think we'd get at least a decent deal out of Yzerman or Nill...but it seems like they are more than happy to deal with Holland, and for good reason. Two decent prospects AND a 2nd for a 36 year old UFA? Two years ago the Stars couldn't of gave him away. Jarnkrok, by himself, is an overpayment for Legwand. Quincey was no where near worth a 1st. Everyone knew those things, the prices that were paid last year were 75% of what we gave for Legwand and it's basically the same this year. I've been nervous for a week, basically knowing we'd make a deal and knowing Holland would over pay. Im terrified that we'll get a good defenseman and trade a really good player. Are we going to resign Cole? It doesn't seem like it the way the roster is built. Everyone knew we wouldn't resign Legwand, and we shouldn't of...and we gave Jarnkrok for him and for a 1st round exit. I don't think we'll resign Cole, and is he really the piece that will put us over the edge? I think the dman that we should get is a bigger deal...and now we have 2 less prospects and Holland's favorite pick to trade off the table. The only guys left to trade are scary ones to lose.

That was so aweful...makes Ozzy and Draper look like Daniel-Day Lewis clones. I seriously cant stand Kane in any sense...such a serious wiener.

Tatar is replaceable? Because young, top 6 forwards grow on trees and are dieing to come to Detroit? Wouldn't matter if they were, Cleary would have their roster spot anyway...

Yep. My money is on this. Its too easy now...this is a no-brainer. I bet Vegas has odds on it.

I feel ya. But it wouldnt be the Wings unless an older, useless player took a younger, more skilled players spot. Quincey = Cleary.

And lose Alfie because we didnt do anything to get better. And resign Cleary, because...duh, he has heart...no talent, but alot of heart.

I think it wasnt being stagnant, it was because NO ONE wanted to sign here. Holland probably got scared and did something to do something because he's lost.

So true! Evilzyme and I had a hilarious, big text-out today about this exact situation, when it comes to Dan Cleary. Jurco will be in the AHL and Cleary will take HIS spot (the spot he certainly has earned over Cleary). Cleary will sign a one way contract, with a raise (and it wouldnt surprise me in the least if it was a 2 year deal). Jurco will spend 20- 30 games in GR until it is beyond obvious, AGAIN, that Cleary is utterly useless. At which point, we will call up Jurco and state how its already the playoffs because were 5 games out of a playoff spot. Niether Holland (ignorance) or Babcock (man crush on Cleary) will admit that keeping Cleary cost a better player his spot and probably cost us a couple wins. Jurco will have to deal with knowing that no matter how hard he works in camp, he wont win a spot. The exact same, word for word, situation happened last year except it was Nyquist and the writing is already on the wall for what i said above. And the Nyquist situation may have almost directly caused the Legwand trade. Im so disturbed by this week. I've always been a Holland supporter (even backed him up recently because of the farm), but he has clearly lost it. His lack of trying to make this team better for Lidstrom and Dats last years, i believe, has made Detroit a less shiny destination. His pathetic signings and handling of Sammy, White, Tootoo, and others makes this seem like somewhere that isnt a first destination for FA. And i seriously hope he doesnt try to trade hia way out of this now, because the Legwand trade makes me think he has no idea how to haggle or read the market. Im pissed at him because his selfishness caused Yzerman and Nill to walk, and by the looks of things, Nill may have been a bigger piece than we even thought. I dont think he is scared of losing his job either, because he'll probably die before Ilitch fires him. I've lost the faith...

Is anybody going to be attending?...Wife and I are in Petoskey for three months and I'm thinking about heading over there to catch some of this.

This response has less to do with Jarnkrok and more to do with philosophy...did anyone expect Sheahan to make the team this year? If you asked 100 knowledgable Wings 'experts'...i bet 99 of them would of told you you're out of your mind. Also, and i hope im wrong, but i have a sneaky feeling Sheahan has a sophomore slump, from our expectations of him, next year. And thats where a skilled two-way center like Jarnkrok, just getting called upon, comes in...or would have. You don't trade talent, on the cheap, just because you think they might not get the chance. Unless the rumours of his unhappiness were true, it was a bad decision. I havent been around for awhile, so i was unaware it was the only thing people posted about. That said, bad trades live on passionately in sports peoples hearts longer than almost anything other than Championship seasons...so lets hope for the best.

Right. If the Wings sign a decent forward, Jurco will most likely be in GR along with Pulkkinen. So Mantha wont even have to be "the guy" there...to bad Kenny traded our only decent playmaking center down there. Athaniasiou, i thino, is gonna surprise alot of people in GR too.

Well said, sir.

Then Pulkkinen will surely never play... Right...Axelsson sounded like a typical primadonna, lazy kid. Those guys jusy dont work out here.

It was a bad trade...if you/we have to talk yourself into why it could or may eventually be an OK deal, it was a bad deal...period. The list of those deals, plus knowing that Legwand had the NTC and the Preds had no leverage...its almost unfathomable that such a respected GM dropped the ball so much. BTW...anybody ever seen interviews with our Asst GM Ryan Martin? Yhat dude is a goof who looks and sounds like he knows nothing about hockey except for what other people have told him. He looks like he'd piss himself if he ever had to negotiate with a Burke type. Yes, really. Jarnkrok has been on our top prospects longer and higher than Matthias was...he's one of our most touted prospects that ive witnessed since '96.

Its more than meaningless, we gave up a pick and very good prospect to essentially give us a worse draft pick. We have next to no shot of winning the Cup. I would argue that even if we make the playoffs, we are putting way to much pressure on Z when he comes bavk. You know he's gonna rush and overdo it when he gets back. Im not saying we should have tanked, but i think we should have stayed the course and let the chips fall as they may. Nashvilles best case scenario is much more likely to happen than ours....thats what it boils down to.

Uh, because he spent his whole career on a much larger ice surface in another country and needed more than 30 games to acclimate himself. And Andersson is significantly older (prospect wise).

Dont be sorry...was a good post. The biggest thing to me is that you dont trade a player who projects, by most all indications, to be better than the player your getting within a very short time frame (ie 2-3 years). Thats why the Erat trade was so bad...if its not a clear upgrade in attempt to win big in a short window, its better to be patient with the prospect. Especially this guy...he has all the right tools...high hockey sense, compared to Zetterberg because of his compete level.