wings4thecup06

Not to play Devil's advocate, but what kinda message does that really send though, by scratching a guy who's arguably been one of our best D men all season, for a game close to his home town where all his folks will come to see him play? And not only that, scratch him for another young guy, rather than hold the veterans who have been dragging this team down for years? Where's the accountability? And how are these guys actually gonna learn by doing? This is one of the primary reasons I want Blashill replaced next season. Same s***, different season.

If Holland hadn't lowballed him to begin with, and that original one year offer was an insult, AA might have signed for $2.2 mil for 2 years before he even got a KHL offer. If he went in looking for $3 mil a year from the start, that would be a bad deal. As much as I hate losing him, I wouldn't have given him that much either. Could we have realistically offered AA that much what with Trevor whatshisface eating more than anyone ever asked of his share of the cake?

And I agree, I totally get AA's perspective. He's young, talented, the world is his oyster. He probably looks up and sees all these equally talented young stars starting to get signed to good deals that pay them well and thinks why can't i get some too? I mean, a legitimate move to russia where he doesn't speak the language, everything is completely different is only really something for the bold hearted, so like you said, for him to genuinely consider it, things can't be all right and rosy in Detroit. I hope he stays, and we work this out, but it's almost like this is the last straw for me for Holland if he leaves. And I guess the counter argument about KH playing hardball and not offering the money? Why are we in this situation with AA? Is it his ego? Or is it because he's not getting the opportunity that many here feel he's deserved of? Or is it KH's flat refusal to allow the young players to legitimately take over the team, sink or swim, and still sign stupid veterans to contracts that just don't make sense and eat cap space.

I know, and I totally agree, but I just can't help but feel s*** about the way KH has made questionable decision after questionable decision and now we're here, and lets face it, unless they get rid of blashill and actually commit to rebuilding the right way, these kids are going to have their growth stunted, and those high picks will go for naught. Apologies for the negativity, again, but it just makes me angry, and I've spent most of my summer angry at the Wings management for their blind ignorance....

I agree, but I really would like to know how AA feels about Blashill's treatment of him. And I'd like to think that's playing a much bigger part than the money....

I'm going with 3. I'm glad hockey will be back, and it'll be great watching the Wings again. But I don't remember being this down about the Wings in forever. I'm surprised at all the 10's around here, but good for you guys. I think we'll be out of the race by january.

I've been silent on the Wings for a while, because its been making me depressed. But I'll throw in my 2 cents worth now. AA was probably (aside from Z and the occasional flash of excellence from Mantha) the only decent thing about the Wings worth watching last season. Tbh, a lot of us are making out to be all about money, but frankly, I'd have to say that that probably isn't the main issue. I've got to think its Blashill and playing time. Remember how he was basically benched in the playoffs two years ago for defensive wonderforward Andersson, who ended up playing basically 3 minutes a night? How many times has AA been called out publicly by Blashill, and limited his minutes? He can go to the KHL, play with Pavel, get really good minutes and earn extra money. You don't have to be a big league scout to tell this kid has talent, and last season especially started to show a scoring touch that could make him a future 2nd line winger. The real issue is management - they clearly don't care about building a winner, it's more about making money it seems at this point. And that's the sad part to me, because we shouldn't really be in this mess right now. Take the Daley signing, why? What worth is it having a veteran 3rd pairing D man (at best?) clogging up cap space (which we could have used for flexibility for signing AA) and a roster spot that we could just give to Jensen, or Russo and actually see what these kids have at the big league level. I have been fortunate enough to be following the wings since the mid 90's and wasn't alive during the dead era. But if this s*** keeps up, I can't see how we don't sink into a deep depression for the next decade, because Holland and co's policy of signing veteran plugs, and demeaning our young talent into repression is going to keep us at the bottom of the standings for quite some time. Sorry for the negativity folks, I ofc want to see the Wings succeed and thrive. But I just don't think KH and co have what it takes to actually do that. It's like they can't see the wood from the ******* trees....

While I'm not happy with management's decision to keep everyone and his dog, I think it would have been a stretch to fire Holland right now. Probably not the most popular sentence i'll ever write on here, but step outside the box for a second. This guy was in charge of what, nearly 20 years of consecutive playoff appearances, and then we miss one season. Really? Just looking at that, would you fire him? On closer inspection, then we have the long, blundering contracts we're now laboured with, and hiring a coach who I don't think gets the best out of his players. And yea, when you analyse the trends over the last 3 seasons, since we got beaten by chicago, then you have an argument. But at this stage, it's probably a knee jerk response to fire KH I see also that we're all pining for Stevie Y to come back and be the GM, and I'd love that, but I think we're all sort of acting like that guy who's really into that girl who says she'll leave her boyfriend. Well guess what. She never does leave her boyfriend. Why wouldn't Tampa lock up Yzerman long term? He's been frankly excellent and even missing the playoffs this year, they're in great shape. I still think the right move would have been to fire Blashill, given the coaches out there on the market this summer, but also it seems to me that management is sort of in denial about doing this whole rebuild thing. Our D is atrocious, and badly has been needing a proper youth movement for 6 years now. Up front we're looking quite solid with larkin, AA, Mantha, Svech and one or two other pieces, and if Mrazek can bounce back then we're set at G. But really, they need to do this properly, and have 2 bad years and trade some assets for a top D man and hope that Cholowski turns into the next Chelios. Ofc I'm not expert, but I've watched the same as everyone else has this season with Blashill benching guys he should be playing, and sticking Sheahan and other turds in positions they really shouldn't be. Hopefully the only good thing about Blashill coming back is that he'll be on an incredibly short leash (one can only hope). But really, I'd rather they just be bad next season and miss the playoffs also so we can at least stockpile two good picks. I have a feeling however, KH will do his utmost to try and sign an ageing free agent or two this offseason just to make us semi relevant that we might try and squeeze back in only to be bounced in the first round.

These suspensions are all bs. Really. Nyquist shouldn't play another game this season. And Keith should have missed the entire post season last year. And he'd had a similar incident 3 years prior. It's ridiculous. The only time the league got it right on a suspension was when Torres missed 41 games. Factoring in previous history as a 'dirty' player is bs also. Are you going to give someone a slap on the wrist for assault just because they haven't done it before? And if we do factor it in, look at Keith, who apparently gets the same length of suspension as Gus, even though Keith had a previous history not 3 years prior? And injury of the opposing player also shouldn't play a part in determining the suspension. Frankly, if you look at Nyquist and Keith's plays, both could have lead to career ending injuries for the opponent. Not to jump on the bandwagon, but Marchand should be suspended for a long time for his slew footing bs. If this league is actually serious about cutting this crap out of the game, then it's time the DOPS actually acted like it had a pair and sent a message to someone who's actually a high level player in this league and suspend them properly for a period of time that will actually affect their team so it sends a message that these kind of plays aren't tolerated. Unfortunately, most likely due to behind the scenes politics, DOPS doesn't have a pair to even begin with.

Problem is because Jacobs is like King on the Board, Marchand might get a one game suspension and that's about it. The league has no balls. They need to send a message. Suspend him for the rest of the season I say.

I don't like to assign blame, but really, if I'm a young guy, I might be questioning whether or not I wanted to play for this coach. A few people on here have pointed out that this team looks de-motivated at times, and I agree, and I have to think that's got to have something to do with blashill right? If you want to play and win for your coach, you're going to play harder yea? So it goes with our young guys who actually have talent, like Mantha and AA, and to an extent Sproul, can you imagine how frustrated they must have been under his tenure? look at AA last year, late in the season he was making a huge impact, only to basically get 5 minutes a game and watch ECHL worthy Andersson get a call up and play in front of him?? Or even at times this season where Blashill has publicly called him out for his bad points, or limited his ice time after playing well. Look at Mantha, who I think we can all agree has been playing excellent in December and early January, then he has what, one bad game, and gets his ice time slashed from 20 to 15 minutes for the next 4 games? Ofc I'm not the coach, but I have to wonder also at this point what he's got against Sproul. The guy came in and played well I thought.

This has been going for nearly a year now in the NBA. The 76ers and Kings already announced sponsorship deals with teams last year: They are small at present, but I absolutely hate the idea. In the UK all the football teams have this massive ad emblazoned on the front of the jersey, taking centre stage. What's worse is how they change the uniform designs literally every season as well, and the sponsors change too sometimes. So as a fan, as soon as you buy the jersey, it'll be obsolete very soon. Ads will make their way to hockey jerseys, sooner rather than later, and it'll be the last time I buy a jersey if they do....

This is complicated right now. Short term, obviously I want the wings to win, get into the playoffs and go on a run (as do most ppl here I imagine). Realistically, we've seen that this team isn't really capable of doing that - not much has changed really in terms of this team being better than last years version which got beaten in the first round again. I think most of us recognise here that in order for the Wings to be stronger long term, down the road, a year of missing the playoffs and selling off our highest priced asset (which we haven't had the luxury of doing for as long as I can remember in Vanek), could potentially add some high end talent that will enable this team to bounce right back and set us up going forward. Obviously I'd prefer the former, for the Wings to realise their potential and go on a run, but there's a reason this team has been out of a playoff spot for most of the season. I don't like seeing the Wings lose, or get trounced or walked over, but frankly, I'd rather see us miss one year in order for this team to come back better and stronger next year and the one after. For me it's about being realistic. But I enjoy watching the Wings regardless. It's Z's twilight of his career. Guys like Mantha and AA and a few of our young D guys are exciting players to watch. It gives you a glimpse of what could happen next year and beyond if the right things happen.

What if we could only get a 2nd rounder (and a late one at that) plus a mediocre D prospect from a contender for Vanek? What's better then? Trading for that or re-signing him? Even though I'd like to think they could get a first for him, what if it's not a sellers market, and the returns are crap? Vanek has been excellent, and in this scenario I don't see re-signing him as the worst option, as long as some other excess fat is trimmed from the roster. I still think he should be traded to take advantage of us having a high priced valuable asset for a change, combined with our diminutive post-season prospects, but keeping him probably wouldn't be the worst thing ever as long as the new contract is reasonable....

I do too, but frankly, they've looked really good in say, 3 of the last 4 games or so and have beaten two of the top teams in the league. It's really tight in the East (6 points out of the last wild card spot and 4 points back of Toronto for 3rd in the division). Frankly, if this team isn't more than 10 points out I see KH sitting on his hands. While it wouldn't be the worst thing, they've clearly got an opportunity to get something good for Vanek right now, and they could actually attempt to sort out or D. It would really go a long way to getting this team off to a good start in LCA next year. All it takes is solid goaltending, another top quality D man, and a good C (or further development of AA and Larkin), and we could easily be in the mix next year. This team just needs some key young players to take another step forward (like we've seen from Mantha and to an extent AA) and things will be looking good. A good high pick in the draft and some help on D in exchange for Vanek would be something management would be extremely smart in doing, even if it costs them the beloved streak.

The thing is now though, you watch, the Wings will go on a little bit of a run, not a massive one, but just enough to put them on the playoff bubble. Which means Holland won't sell, he'll probably stand pat, and we'll end up either missing the playoffs or just squeaking in and getting dumped in the first round again. Vanek walks for nothing and we miss a great opportunity to set us up well for next season with a high pick of our own and another first from another team..... That's just the way I see it. I'm glad this team has put it together the last week or so and I obviously want to see the Wings win, but really, for the long term future of this franchise, it couldn't have come at a worse time imo. We're not close to competing this year, and extending the streak by squeaking in just reinforces the badly managed philosophy of the last few years.

I genuinely feel this won't happen though, even if it's obvious we're out of the playoff picture before the deadline. I never thought they'd fire Dombrowski (but they did) and when he traded away pending FA's Price, Cespedes etc for high end prospects which will definitely help them the next few years, I thought it was incredibly smart. But it ended with him losing his job. I get the feeling the same will happen with the Wings if KH did something similar. Trade Smith, Vanek, hell even Howard if he keeps playing this well. (Some here will argue KH should be long gone and it wouldn't be a bad thing). My point is that especially with the new building opening next year I don't think ownership will want to see the Wings as sellers or even missing the playoffs the year before it opens..... If they do take that approach and don't sell and just sit and watch more players walk for free (and we lose Howard or Mrazek in the expansion draft - sod's law we'd lose Mrazek as they'd protect Howard) it'll hamper us some more I feel

Not to play Devil's advocate, but isn't this a trend that we are seeing across pretty much all pro sports right now? Look at some teams that are building new arenas/stadiums that are barely that old: MLB: Texas Rangers - Ballpark in Arlington (1994) - new park opening 2021 Atlanta Braves - Turner field (1996) - Sun Trust Park opening 2017 NHL: Gila River Arena (2003) - new arena proposed/approved These are obviously just a few examples, and look at NHL teams that were forced to move because team owners handcuffed the city into threatening relocation unless they coughed up millions of dollars to build a new arena because they wanted more revenue from corporate boxes even though their current arena was perfectly good for hockey.....

Would you consider Hall a superstar? Definitely Karlsson and Lundqvist, and the Rangers have a better core than we do right now. But I agree. It's a coaching issue. And we've all seen Blashill's inability and lack of desire to play young players over veterans - see last year, Tatar and Nyquist's ice time cut, AA playing 4 mins in the playoffs, Sproul scratched for 7 or so games after being very effective. I personally wonder if there's pressure over head from management to 'win or else' and thus the safest way to do that is to play veterans who at least are competent at this level. Granted I never saw the Wings in the deadwings era, but having watched this team for nearly 20 years now, I can't ever remember a time when we looked this bad. Guys don't seem to have energy or desire There's literally no forecheck We seem to be stuck offensively and play a dump and chase style half the time and rarely come up with the puck The PP usage is baffling but I wonder if Blashill putting Sproul and Green together is just his way of trying to break us out of a funk by putting our best offensive D men on the same unit? Another PP observation is zone entries. They are just lost without Datsyuk bringing the puck in and setting up everytime. Even then, the forecheck really does get me. As you're rightly saying, we are quick and have good speed, but no one seems to know how to utilise it. And with Howard playing like an all star, I would have assumed we'd be a bit better than this right now For whatever reason, I get the impression that this team is trying to play a puck possession game, can't because they aren't skilled enough, so they dump and chase, yet don't have the tenacity or physicality to succeed there either.

Neither am I, and I actually wouldn't be too upset with it tbh. I think a bad finish will finally tell KH that he can't get by with mediocre band aids to try and sneak into the playoffs, and instead that it's time for a few changes. I do fear however that if KH does a Dombrowski and sells off a few pending FA's for prospects he'll get fired by the Illitch crew and thus he won't do anything even if we're out of a playoff spot in february... Maybe chance for a new era, what with moving to LCA next year.

Surely, this is a good thing for the city though? They're clearly trying to evolve this into a true district, which will inevitably bring more people downtown, spending more money, boosting the economy etc. While maybe not ideal for the Wings, if they knew that there'd be issues with the ice quality etc, then they wouldn't do it? Think of how many teams around the league share an arena with NBA teams....LA, Toronto, NY, Boston, Chicago to name a few

Taking a step back to cool off and look at this situation for a second, none of these players we've lost through waivers here recently have gone on to be, or ever were projected to be all stars. Pulkkinen had something this team sorely lacked (right hand, booming shot), but never really was given the opportunity to excel at this level. Lets be thankful we're not doing a Boston and losing a guy who is in arguably one of the top 10 fowards in the league today.... I think what bothers me truly is the fact that its bad management and poor decisions which is resulting in us losing players like this. It's not the quality of players, it's more the way we're losing them. For me, (and I'd like to think this is why a lot of anger and frustration is coming toward KH at the moment) its the simple fact that all of these situations were/are avoidable. In trying to find reasoning behind it all, I think KH's hands are sort of tied by ownership here, and maybe we really need to question what's going on behind the scenes instead of just venting at KH for his inability to do things. Look at it this way. Ownership has probably said the biggest thing they care about is simply having a winning team and making the playoffs, regardless. If we look at the Tigers (who had a great season thanks to how Dombrowski traded all the pending free agents 2 years ago for excellent prospects who were a core part of the team's success this past season), DD was fired for his trade deadline day sale. You have to think that if KH doesn't keep signing 'veteran plugs' and frees up roster spots for guys like Pulkkinen, Mantha, AA, Sproul and Ouellet to actually play every night and establish their game at the NHL level, it could blow up in his face if the kids don't produce, the Wings miss the playoffs and KH loses his job. The same goes for a trade. Say we trade Nyquist and a couple prospects/picks for Trouba, and he struggles? We lose offense and get worse. Not a risk he's willing to take. And on the surface, it's incredibly short sighted. Sure, a guy like Vanek has a proven track record and looks like he plays better right now than say AA or Mantha. But in 2 years time? Given the ice time, we all know that both Mantha and AA would be better players, and the organisation would have 2 genuine, young top 9/6 forwards entering their primes HAVING 2 years + of NHL experience instead of being 24/25 and trying to figure out how to thrive in the NHL. And it really pisses me off when I hear all these quotes from Blashill and management saying the young guys have to knock someone off the roster or be better than everyone else just to get a job. And that's fine if you're actually going to give them the chance to learn and play at the NHL level. But there isn't actually the opportunity for any of these kids to actually earn it. (the exception was Larkin, but he is for our organisation a generational player) AA getting 6 minutes a night doesn't cut the mustard either. Look at the quotes from Fletcher after the Wild claimed Pulkkinen: "He's played a top-six role at every level," said Wild general manager Chuck Fletcher. "It remains to be seen whether he can do it at the NHL level, but that's the opportunity we'd like to give him, and we'd certainly like to see if he can do it." Pulkkinen has played 70 NHL games, and the Wild are giving him the chance to excel and prove what he can do. Where is this philosophy from the Wings? They'd rather have one of Minny's washed up cast offs (Vanek) in hope he can rediscover his magic from 10 years ago when he was lighting it up in Buffalo as a young 20 something player. And if he scores 20, then great. But this is a player who is trending downwards, and we can all objectively see is just holding up a roster spot for Mantha or AA to learn and grow their games at the NHL level. And fundamentally, that is the problem plaguing the Wings right now. KH is scared of giving young guys the opportunity because he knows they'll experience growing pains which = losing which = missing the playoffs which = KH losing his job. And in the short term, that means the team won't be as successful. But in the long term it would mean we'd potentially be better. But instead, he goes out and signs over the hill veterans (Ott, Vanek) whom he knows will at least play at a respectable level, just enough for us to make the playoffs = KH keeps his job. And as a result, it stunts the growth of the organisation because guys who are on the cusp of the NHL (Seriously, how many years have we been talking about Sproul and Ouellette?) don't get the chance to grow their game and we lose them to waivers.....

Thing is, I don't believe management feels like AA is a top 6 forward, nor are they willing to even give that to him (or let him have the chance to earn it). Look at his usage in the playoffs for exhibit A of that.... I'd love to agree with you, but I think it's kinda obvious Vanek is here to slot into the top 6, and no way will he live up to that. And this is exactly why I have a problem with KH's trend of signing these veterans. this isn't 2002 anymore, when we can slot a good veteran whose production has declined (Robitaille) on the 4th line... These signings are being counted on for quite a bit of offence, and if it doesn't work we're kinda screwed. Because management continue to want to just keep a barely alive playoff team on life support rather than go with more youth full time even if we miss the postseason for a year or two. I would also happily jettison Nyquist in a package for a good D man, but somehow with Holland's trade track record and love for his own players, I don't see it happening and I can highly envision a scenario in which he'll state the price for D men was too high (in his defence it will be high, but if you don't take a risk or two you never know) and AA and Mantha are both in GR because of their waiver exemption status. While I fully expect at least one of Sproul or Ouellet to be exposed to waivers and probably claimed. Sorry for the negativity, and while I'm fully behind this team, and appreciate how lucky we have been for 25 straight years, it seems like salary cap induced parity is an excuse for mediocrity...

Agree with you on nielsen, and an important signing. Also thought the term was too long, but this is the nature of the beast these days its seems. Side note, I love how everyone is preparing for another lockout with all the contracts signed at the moment being mostly made up of bonuses which are salary protected.... Also agree about Helm. While he has been inconsistent, his speed is an element that is key these days, and while the money was a bit too much, I'm glad he;s still here. I have a problem with the Vanek signing for 2 reasons: 1. It represents an ongoing philosophy from KH whereby it seems he keeps signing 'veterans' on cheap deals that were once pretty good but are now obviously falling off the table in the hopes they regain their old magic. The problem here is that they actually don't regain this kind of magic, and instead of being a key player like KH hopes they will be, the end up clogging up a roster spot and prohibiting the team moving forward. 2. It's also another example of how KH really doesn't seem to want to give guys like Mantha and AA a real chance at getting good quality minutes at the NHL level, let alone make the roster. My own personal opinion is that it's holding this team back. We need to develop these new core players and give them the responsibility, yet eliminating roster spots by signing veterans who are basically past their prime is misguided in my opinion, and tantamount to another first round exit. (i'll eat my hat is Vanek scores 20-30 goals and am perfectly fine with that) Ott I don't mind, because he brigns needed grit and energy and someone who actually will stick up for teammates besides Smith and Abby. Yes, it still eats another roster spot though, but ah well...