Echolalia

its always interesting seeing interviews in players' native languages. When you can see their full personality, its like they're entirely different people.

Babcock refused to bend the knee to house Holland. He's called his bannermen to prepare for war.

actually surprised at all the 10s thus far. My hype level is at a 3 now, personally, and most of that revolves around my excitement for watching Mantha, Larkin, and AA

becoming a nonplayoff team is an inevitability

Honestly I was expecting more and for a longer term. So I'm pleasantly surprised.

I dont know what was said

So last year during all the commotion of evaluating the team's picks during the 2016 NHL draft, I thought it would be fun to go back five years and see how those players panned out, and more specifically what LGW was saying at the time of those picks. It was a fun and relatively informative thread, and I thought it would be just as fun and informative to do it again this year. One thing worth mentioning is that five years ago, LGW did not have nearly as loud of a voice in prospects as we do now. So there isn't as much "Holland should have picked X instead of Y" like we have today, but its still fun to look back at our opinions. So without further ado, here is a look back to the 2012 NHL entry draft. Note: the '2012 NHL Entry Draft Discussion' was a general thread, whereas separate threads were made for the discussion of each of our selections. Those are also below. Round 1: Wings traded 1st round pick (19th overall) to Tampa Bay for Kyle Quincey. With that pick the Lightning selected goalie Andrei Vasilevskiy. Round 2: Wings selected Martin Frk (49th overall). Discussion is here: LGW was overall pleased with this pick. Frk was originally slated as a 1st rounder but dropped to us at 49th. Some were considering it a steal. Round 3: Wings selected Jake Paterson (80th overall). Discussion is here: Not much overall talk on him from LGW. A couple voices were happy with the pick. Round 4: Wings selected Andreas Athanasiou (110th overall). Discussion is here: No complaints on this pick, even back then (at least in this thread. There was a grumble or two over this pick in the 2012 entry draft discussion thread). People loved the speed. Comparisons were made to being a second Jurco or Tvrdon (in a positive way lol). Round 5: Wings selected Mike McKee (140th overall). Discussion is here (and 300 other places on these forums. This is prob the most popular draft pick to never play an NHL game): I would say hindsight is 20/20 on this one but I know there are still people here that are creaming themselves over this guy so whatever. Poor Buppy was the lone voice trying to temper expectations. Round 6: Wings selected James DeHaas (170th overall). I was unable to find a specific thread on this pick. Round 7: Wings selected Rasmus Bodin (200th overall) Discussion is here: Not much here to write home about. 2012 Entry Draft Discussion Thread: A lot of this thread is overshadowed by the Suter and Parise sweepstakes. A cute little gem: "i like the frk and mckee picks as well as the potential of bodin ....good draft day considering we dealt our 19th pick id say ... not sold on athanasiou being a player but overall pleased" and nice foresight from ogreslayer: "To me, the most intriguing pick is Athanasiou given what's been said of the kid's speed & skill. Discipline & hard work can be taught, natural speed & skill can't. If there's a player the Wings drafted this year that will be known as the steal of his draft class, I think he could be it." this draft was rated by one of our resident posters as one of the best drafts in a long time: "I have been doing some reading and research on the Wings picks...I can honestly say this is one of the Wings best drafts in a long time. I can also honestly see all 6 of these kids being in the Detroit when their time comes. The only one who may have an issue is the goalie, Paterson, only because Howad is still young and Mrazek is doing so good too! Now, he may not be a Red Wing, but he could make it somewhere else, but the other five? I can see them filling certain and different roles on this team within the next 3-7 years. I think McKee and Bodin are going to be HUGE (no pun intended) surprises to the NHL world and once again, Holland will deemed a genius! De Haas may have a bit of a challenge too considering Detroit's interest in Suter and Schultz. If Holland lands those two or even one of them, the Wings have a great young core of defenders who will be here for a long time. Kronwall, Ericsson, Suter, Smith, Schultz, if he signs Dekeyser, and also there are two kids in the top 10 prospects Sproul and Ouellet. If Holland gets Suter/Schultz then eventually Dekeyser I can see Sproul and Ouellet even having a hard time cracking this lineup anytime soon, but again De Haas looks like a great young defenseman and should make some waves in GR and eventually, if not for the Wings, somewhere in the NHL too... Good on ya, Holland!" As of right now, the only player from that draft to reach the NHL ice is Athanasiou. So 1 for 5 from 2012. 20% success rate for rounds 2-7, which is essentially the league average for that span, as I show below. For the record, here is a list of the entire 2012 entry level draft: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html The first 20 picks in the first round essentially all made it to the NHL. Griffin Reinhart (4th overall, Islanders), Derrek Pouliot (8th overall, Penguins), and Slater Koekkoek (10th overall, Tampa Bay) are the only three in the top twenty to play less than 82 games of NHL hockey. After pick 20 it gets more dicey, only 4 of 10 playing more than 82 games, and two of those four barely make that cut. Four players played less than 20 games in the NHL in that back 10. The second round only produced 8 hockey players to play more than 20 games in the NHL. Frk is not one of them. Ten players from the third round have played more than 20 games in the NHL. Notables from this list include Shayne Gostisbehere (78th Philadephia), Colton Parayko (86th St Louis), and Frederik Andersson (87th Anaheim). Six players from the fourth round have played more than 20 NHL games, including Athanasiou. Five players from the fifth round have played more than 20 NHL games. Mike Mckee is not one of those five. Nine players from the sixth round have played more than 20 NHL games. Nobody from the seventh round has played more than five NHL games. Overall there isn't a lot of star power outside of the first round in this one, and after pick 20 the odds of finding an NHL player diminish considerably. Round 2 had a success rate of 26% of producing an NHL player. Round 3 is 33%. Round 4 is 20%. Round 5 is 16%. Round 6 is 30%. Round 7 is 0%. So final thoughts on this one: Holland's 20% success rate about mirrors the league rate for round 2-7. Not having a first round pick hurt this year, considering the success rate in the top 20 picks, and the paucity of success thereafter. Athanasiou was one of the better players to come outside the first round, though, so the Wings organization at least has that going for them.

nm

lol this is so juicy

this thread has potential

apparently you can tell me the name as a clue and I still wouldn't figure it out

The 2011 draft kind of had a similar pattern, in that I believe the top 15 picks were almost a sure thing, then the back half of round 1 through all of round 2, the odds of landing an NHL player seemed about even through that stretch. 2012 at first glance appears a bit deeper, with a higher success rate early on, extending to the 20th pick. There was more of a transition zone from 20th to 30th, but from the second round on it was more or less a ~25% chance of landing someone, regardless of where exactly you were picking, until late in the draft when the number diminished even further. It lends credence to the idea of trading away a late (20th-30th overall) first round pick for multiple second round picks, something generally frowned upon here. Earlier than 20th, though, and you're likely trading away an NHL player-to-be. Of course this observation is based just on 2011 and 2012 draft classes. I'll add 2013 next off season.

I wonder how quickly this kid will get to the NHL (assuming he does). The idea of him and Mantha protecting the puck on the same team, potentially the same line is exciting to think about

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2017/03/chris_dienes_and_mike_mckee_si.html welp according to this he signed a contract with the Wings back in March of this year, and McKee will be moving on to the ECHL to play for the Toledo Walleye

I mean... even if he turned out to be exactly Holmstrom. Is that a bad thing? Hes not a franchise guy, but our team could reealllly use a prime Holmstrom mucking it up in the greasy areas.

Here at LGW, we should have a pretty good idea about how easily and commonly the most promising prospects in the AHL fizzle out into nothing once they get into the NHL. From purely an odds standpoint, Vegas selecting anyone off our AHL roster over currently established NHL players is likely going to be a long-term win for us. Keeping Mrazek would buy Holland another season to work out a solution for a backup role as well (cuz Coreau I don't think is ready, and Howard is likely going to be injured). Not losing any sleep over these results if they're true. Also regarding Mrazek's low trade value: lets not give this kid a scapegoat and blame everything on Holland. He's struggled to put together a consistent showing since coming up to the NHL and his attitude and entitlement problems are widely reported. Maybe if he wants to be a number one goalie or be a valuable asset he should work more on his game and behavior. Its not Blashill or Holland's job to coddle him.

i wonder what skin condition he has

Seems like a very rational reason why he wasn't picked up in a trade and why he's being exposed. Although rational isn't LGWs forte.

I think Howard/Coreau is a disaster waiting to happen, something I already mentioned in this thread. Regardless of whether Holland went with Mrazek or Howard, I think a priority in this offseason is finding an established backup who is capable of playing half the season if need be, because Mrazek has shown he's too inconsistent (and as you alluded to mentally fragile) to handle the top spot, and Howard is injury prone. Frankly I think the real issue here isn't a Mrazek vs Howard one, but who is going to be on the bench waiting on the likely event one of those two is unavailable.

The last person I want in net is someone with a fragile ego and the ability to get shaken easily. If Mraz can't handle the pressure of something as basic as a qualified starter backing him up, how can you reasonably expect him to handle real adversity (which he has also struggled with)?

I mean Mrazek has sucked. In his three years here he's been unable to string together a single consistent season. Having said that, I don't trust a Howard/Coreau tandem either. One is injury prone and the other is unproven. I would hope Holland is actively pursuing a solid backup if Mrazek happens to be claimed on the likely event that Howard goes down.

Pick up Brendan Smith at the deadline, buy out Girardi in the offseason. I bet most Wings fans didn't see that one coming.

Many of the point-per-game players in the NHL spend very little time in the AHL. The AHL is where most of the solid complimentary guys are developed and prepared for the NHL, although yes, there are some guys who require seasoning in the AHL and then continue on to become stars in the NHL, but for the most part, its the complimentary, second line, third line, fourth line guys that you're getting from the farm teams. The Red Wings have never lacked in that department. What they need is star-calibre talent and franchise guys to build a team around. The type that are drafted and often immediately put into an NHL roster.

fan favorite former pro hockey players always make the best candidates for coaching staff. theres a correlation between how popular someone is among the fanbase during their career and how much guaranteed success they will bring to a club in a coaching position.

yup. In my draft thread last year, evaluating the draft from now 6 years ago, there was roughly an equal chance of drafting an NHL caliber player from 15th pick to 60th pick, while 1-15 was obviously much higher odds