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Ozzie30

James "Jimmy" Howard

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Does anyone have any info on James Howard? I recently read the Wings, in an effort to speed up the development of several prospects, were entertaining the idea of offering them pro contracts, including Howard. I know he's tearing things up in Maine, but the only info I have is stats, does anyone have any intimate knowledge of this kid, he seems to me to have franchise goaltender written all over him.

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Jimmy Howard is a very good goalie with lots of potential. He was definitely a steal in the 2003 draft. He has played on the US-18 team, leading them to the gold in the U-18 championships and he set records playing with the USNTDP. He was injured and couldn't go to the 2003 World Junior Championships, the tournament that made Montoya a well known name in the hockey circuits, else it's safe to say Montoya wouldn't have been drafted as high as he was. He has been tremendous with Maine. He set several records in 2003-2004, leading Maine to the 2004 NCAA championship finals, and those records include a 1.19 GAA and .956 SV% At one point Maine won 12-straight one goal games. The best I've ever seen Jimmy play was in the Hockey East Final when Maine beat Massachusetts in triple OT; Howard has 63 saves, 19 of which came in 1st OT, and the only goal he gave up was a PP one. It is possibly one of the best college games I have ever seen. He missed some time last season due to mono but came back strong and helped Maine make the NCAA playoffs.

Howard is a sharp goalie. He has good size, quick reflexes and good movement. His anticipation is excellent as well. He is very calm in pressure situations and a solid presence in net. What he needs to work on is consistency and getting used to the grinding schedule. A year or two with the Griffins will help him in those aspects.

He is the kind of goalie who could be the cornerstone of a franchise. For our sake, I hope he turns out that way. He certainly has all the tools. So best wishes to him and to us.

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Howard > Liv. Frankly, I don't think we can pin our hopes on Liv. Liv should've fared better and progressed a bit more but he has been vastly inconsistent, which has resulted in him still playing overseas. Management has not been impressed. Save a miracle, at this point, the best we can hope from Liv is him at least playing well enough to manage backup duties.

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Howard > Liv. Frankly, I don't think we can pin our hopes on Liv. Liv should've fared better and progressed a bit more but he has been vastly inconsistent, which has resulted in him still playing overseas. Management has not been impressed. Save a miracle, at this point, the best we can hope from Liv is him at least playing well enough to manage backup duties.

That's a damn shame really. Liv was hyped a bit for a while and now he may turn out to be a disappointment. I would say that maybe there is still a chance for him but it isn't a very big chance.

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Howard > Liv. Frankly, I don't think we can pin our hopes on Liv. Liv should've fared better and progressed a bit more but he has been vastly inconsistent, which has resulted in him still playing overseas. Management has not been impressed. Save a miracle, at this point, the best we can hope from Liv is him at least playing well enough to manage backup duties.

You're exaggerating.

For one thing, Liv did have disappointing stats last season. But you have to remember that his team refused to sign NHLers for half the season, and only signed a couple NHLers at all. It was basically HV-71 plus Anders Eriksson, half a season from Malhotra, half a season from Cheechoo, and 10 games from McCabe, vs the rest of the Swedish League with 5-6 NHLers all year. Guys like Morrison, Forsberg, Zetterberg, Knuble, Weinhandl, Huselius, etc. In fact, Phoenix starter Brian Boucher played 11 games for HV-71 and performed far worse than Liv did in all aspects.

The SEL playoffs before the NHL lockout, Liv led his team to the championship and did not allow a single goal in the final round. in fact, 03-04 was his best regular season too.

Liv is an exceptional prospect who has not been brought over because Detroit had Legace as the backup and was not confident going with him as the starter, using pricier guys like Osgood, and then Hasek, and then Joseph. Holland would have liked to have seen Liv in Detroit for 04-05 (had there been a season)

Liv will likely be in Grand Rapids this year due to the waiver issue with Joey Macdonald. Assuming Macdonald resigns with Detroit-like Cujo, his contract expired with the lockout.

Holland would like to see Macdonald take over the backup duties, but I doubt he'd be too displeased if it had to be Liv instead.

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You're exaggerating.

For one thing, Liv did have disappointing stats last season. But you have to remember that his team refused to sign NHLers for half the season, and only signed a couple NHLers at all. It was basically HV-71 plus Anders Eriksson, half a season from Malhotra, half a season from Cheechoo, and 10 games from McCabe, vs the rest of the Swedish League with 5-6 NHLers all year. Guys like Morrison, Forsberg, Zetterberg, Knuble, Weinhandl, Huselius, etc. In fact, Phoenix starter Brian Boucher played 11 games for HV-71 and performed far worse than Liv did in all aspects.

The SEL playoffs before the NHL lockout, Liv led his team to the championship and did not allow a single goal in the final round. in fact, 03-04 was his best regular season too.

Liv is an exceptional prospect who has not been brought over because Detroit had Legace as the backup and was not confident going with him as the starter, using pricier guys like Osgood, and then Hasek, and then Joseph. Holland would have liked to have seen Liv in Detroit for 04-05 (had there been a season)

Liv will likely be in Grand Rapids this year due to the waiver issue with Joey Macdonald. Assuming Macdonald resigns with Detroit-like Cujo, his contract expired with the lockout.

Holland would like to see Macdonald take over the backup duties, but I doubt he'd be too displeased if it had to be Liv instead.

It was Liv's choice to play in Sweden last season. Holland wanted to sign him to play in GR. The window may be closed now, with Howard being essentially a lock to get a contract next season if not sooner.

Joseph, Hasek, Osgood and Legace have nothing to do with Liv. Goalies almost never go directly into the NHL without playing in the AHL. Liv would not have started his North American career in the NHL. No way. Not even Kari Lehtonen did.

Liv has not played in North America. He has to adjust to the different style. I definitely think Holland would be displeased if Liv were playing in Detroit next season.

Here's what assistant GM Jim Nill said about Stefan Liv. “He’s got to really step up and take control,� said Nill. “He’s at the age where he’s got to take over.�

To me it sounds like Detroit is somewhat soured on Liv.

The SEL playoffs before the NHL lockout, Liv led his team to the championship and did not allow a single goal in the final round. in fact, 03-04 was his best regular season too.

HV-71 won the SEL championship in 7 games. He had four shutouts in the final series, but it was not a sweep.

Liv has been much more inconsistent than Howard, who, IMO could be an All-Star goalie some day.

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You're exaggerating.

For one thing, Liv did have disappointing stats last season. But you have to remember that his team refused to sign NHLers for half the season, and only signed a couple NHLers at all. It was basically HV-71 plus Anders Eriksson, half a season from Malhotra, half a season from Cheechoo, and 10 games from McCabe, vs the rest of the Swedish League with 5-6 NHLers all year. Guys like Morrison, Forsberg, Zetterberg, Knuble, Weinhandl, Huselius, etc. In fact, Phoenix starter Brian Boucher played 11 games for HV-71 and performed far worse than Liv did in all aspects.

The SEL playoffs before the NHL lockout, Liv led his team to the championship and did not allow a single goal in the final round. in fact, 03-04 was his best regular season too.

Liv is an exceptional prospect who has not been brought over because Detroit had Legace as the backup and was not confident going with him as the starter, using pricier guys like Osgood, and then Hasek, and then Joseph. Holland would have liked to have seen Liv in Detroit for 04-05 (had there been a season)

Liv will likely be in Grand Rapids this year due to the waiver issue with Joey Macdonald. Assuming Macdonald resigns with Detroit-like Cujo, his contract expired with the lockout.

Holland would like to see Macdonald take over the backup duties, but I doubt he'd be too displeased if it had to be Liv instead.

I don't think I'm exagerrating, I'm only going by what the management has expressed. In a recent article in Red Wings Central, Asst. GM Jim Nill adressed the goaltending prospects in the system. The Red Wings are very high on Jimmy Howard and would like to sign him and have him play with the Griffins this upcoming season. Joey McDonald has earned the right to at least fight for the backup job in the NHL. On the other hand, Stefan Liv has been vastly inconsistent. He will be 25 years old this year, if not now, then when? Mr. Nill said the following about Liv:

Also in the mix is Stefan Liv, who plays for HV-71 Jonkoping of the Swedish Elite League. Drafted in 2000, the 24-year-old could easily play in Grand Rapids and form a solid 1-2 punch with either MacDonald or Howard. But Liv could also stay in Sweden for another year.

“He’s got to really step up and take control,� said Nill. “He’s at the age where he’s got to take over.�

For someone who was drafted 5 years ago, his progress hasn't been enough. I am not saying he is a bad goaltender or that we should give up all hope when it comes to him. He does have some excellent talent but he needs some serious work. His anticipation is not the best, puckhandling and rebounds need a lot of work, so do his play-reading abilities. He is expected to stay in Sweden for 1 more year but a year in GR as the backup could help him. I do think, though that at this point Howard is better than Liv and given a choice, the management will pick Howard over Liv.

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If Liv doesn't come over at the start of this season, he's pretty much done. He's getting older and won't accomplish anything else in sweden to help with his NHL skills. Howard definatly looks better at this point, and Liv is a lot older and doesn't have any experience with the North American style.

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If Liv doesn't come over at the start of this season, he's pretty much done.

your wrong about that.

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^ No, I think he's right on. It's kinda now or never for Liv. It's already been mentioned that Liv has regressed slightly and that management wants him to step up. He lost the starting job to Rangers prospect Lundquist at the 2004 World Championships and he was cut from the World Cup team later that year. He only shared backup responsibilities with Holmquist during this years World Championships (Holmquist played two periods, Liv none).

I rank both Howard and McDonald ahead of Liv who will turn 25 in December. If he doesn't come this year, I'll take it as a sign that he will remain in Sweden throughout his career.

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From DetNews.com:

All aboard

As the Wings enter a new NHL era, they want young players along for the ride. Nill wants to sign unsigned draft picks such as goalie Jimmy Howard and forwards Valtteri Filppula, Johan Franzen and Igor Grigorenko.

They are likely to sign Howard, a 2003 second-round draft pick from Maine, and send him to Grand Rapids. Although Howard is entering his senior year, Nill said the Wings would like to see him begin his pro development.

Filppula and Franzen could crack the Wings lineup this season.

Grigorenko would remain in Russia for another year. He has recovered almost totally from a serious auto accident in 2003, but the Wings believe one more year in Russia would be beneficial for him.

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From DetNews.com:

All aboard

As the Wings enter a new NHL era, they want young players along for the ride. Nill wants to sign unsigned draft picks such as goalie Jimmy Howard and forwards Valtteri Filppula, Johan Franzen and Igor Grigorenko.

They are likely to sign Howard, a 2003 second-round draft pick from Maine, and send him to Grand Rapids. Although Howard is entering his senior year, Nill said the Wings would like to see him begin his pro development.

Filppula and Franzen could crack the Wings lineup this season.

Grigorenko would remain in Russia for another year. He has recovered almost totally from a serious auto accident in 2003, but the Wings believe one more year in Russia would be beneficial for him.

Good article. I agree with virtually all of their plans, although Filppula perhaps could use another year in Europe as well.

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From DetNews.com:

All aboard

As the Wings enter a new NHL era, they want young players along for the ride. Nill wants to sign unsigned draft picks such as goalie Jimmy Howard and forwards Valtteri Filppula, Johan Franzen and Igor Grigorenko.

They are likely to sign Howard, a 2003 second-round draft pick from Maine, and send him to Grand Rapids. Although Howard is entering his senior year, Nill said the Wings would like to see him begin his pro development.

Filppula and Franzen could crack the Wings lineup this season.

Grigorenko would remain in Russia for another year. He has recovered almost totally from a serious auto accident in 2003, but the Wings believe one more year in Russia would be beneficial for him.

Good article. I agree with virtually all of their plans, although Filppula perhaps could use another year in Europe as well.

I wonder about living Grigs in Russia... why not bring him here in the AHL and let him get more familiar with the smaller ice surface, NA style of play, etc.?

I say this only because we need a solid RW very badly. If we could get him in AHL this year maybe he'd be in NHL next year... if he stays in Russia another year it may be 2 more before we see him in Red. Well, at least in our Red.

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What's the situation with the Griffins goalies?

Could this be our system?

Red Wings

1. Osgood/UFA-sign

2. MacDonald

Griffins

1. Howard

2. Liv

Or is there McIntyre still signed?

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^ No, I think he's right on. It's kinda now or never for Liv. It's already been mentioned that Liv has regressed slightly and that management wants him to step up. He lost the starting job to Rangers prospect Lundquist at the 2004 World Championships and he was cut from the World Cup team later that year. He only shared backup responsibilities with Holmquist during this years World Championships (Holmquist played two periods, Liv none).

I rank both Howard and McDonald ahead of Liv who will turn 25 in December. If he doesn't come this year, I'll take it as a sign that he will remain in Sweden throughout his career.

1. Holmquist is way better than Liv

2. I think and Neil has said something along the lines of this a few times as well, that what more does Liv have to prove in the Swedish League? He's won many titles there, hes done his job and done it well. What more is there to do? simple. AHL

Ya hes in his 20s your upset hes not turning into the soild goalie he was projected to be? sh*t happens man, doesn't mean hes done.

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You're exaggerating.

For one thing, Liv did have disappointing stats last season. But you have to remember that his team refused to sign NHLers for half the season, and only signed a couple NHLers at all. It was basically HV-71 plus Anders Eriksson, half a season from Malhotra, half a season from Cheechoo, and 10 games from McCabe, vs the rest of the Swedish League with 5-6 NHLers all year. Guys like Morrison, Forsberg, Zetterberg, Knuble, Weinhandl, Huselius, etc. In fact, Phoenix starter Brian Boucher played 11 games for HV-71 and performed far worse than Liv did in all aspects.

The SEL playoffs before the NHL lockout, Liv led his team to the championship and did not allow a single goal in the final round. in fact, 03-04 was his best regular season too.

Liv is an exceptional prospect who has not been brought over because Detroit had Legace as the backup and was not confident going with him as the starter, using pricier guys like Osgood, and then Hasek, and then Joseph. Holland would have liked to have seen Liv in Detroit for 04-05 (had there been a season)

Liv will likely be in Grand Rapids this year due to the waiver issue with Joey Macdonald. Assuming Macdonald resigns with Detroit-like Cujo, his contract expired with the lockout.

Holland would like to see Macdonald take over the backup duties, but I doubt he'd be too displeased if it had to be Liv instead.

It was Liv's choice to play in Sweden last season. Holland wanted to sign him to play in GR. The window may be closed now, with Howard being essentially a lock to get a contract next season if not sooner.

Joseph, Hasek, Osgood and Legace have nothing to do with Liv. Goalies almost never go directly into the NHL without playing in the AHL. Liv would not have started his North American career in the NHL. No way. Not even Kari Lehtonen did.

Liv has not played in North America. He has to adjust to the different style. I definitely think Holland would be displeased if Liv were playing in Detroit next season.

Here's what assistant GM Jim Nill said about Stefan Liv. “He’s got to really step up and take control,� said Nill. “He’s at the age where he’s got to take over.�

To me it sounds like Detroit is somewhat soured on Liv.

HV-71 won the SEL championship in 7 games. He had four shutouts in the final series, but it was not a sweep.

Liv has been much more inconsistent than Howard, who, IMO could be an All-Star goalie some day.

You're right.

I suppose what I meant was that he didn't allow a goal in any of four wins...lol. It's still pretty impressive.

When's the last time you heard of a goalie getting four shutouts in a playoff round in any league?

I can think of Terry Sawchuk getting four on an eight-game playoff year, but not all in the same round.

NHL record is 3 if I recall right.

Granted, the Elitserien finals are not the Stanley Cup playoffs.

But if Sidney Crosby's regular season stats get him labeled 'the next one' then I can talk about how impressive Liv's finals shutouts are.

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What's the situation with the Griffins goalies?

Could this be our system?

Red Wings

1. Osgood/UFA-sign

2. MacDonald

Griffins

1. Howard

2. Liv

Or is there McIntyre still signed?

Last season MacIntyre and Koopmans both spent time in GR and Toledo.

If Liv and Howard both get signed, DreMac/Koop will probably share in Toledo or one will go elsewhere.

I am utterly unhappy with MacIntyre's injury and what it's done to his development. He was almost as good a prospect as Liv or Howard. I personally like to compare him (favorably) to Pascal Leclaire, as they were drafted in the same year and played in the same league.

Speaking of Toledo, you guys know if Fankhouser is returning there?

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^ No, I think he's right on. It's kinda now or never for Liv. It's already been mentioned that Liv has regressed slightly and that management wants him to step up. He lost the starting job to Rangers prospect Lundquist at the 2004 World Championships and he was cut from the World Cup team later that year. He only shared backup responsibilities with Holmquist during this years World Championships (Holmquist played two periods, Liv none). 

I rank both Howard and McDonald ahead of Liv who will turn 25 in December. If he doesn't come this year, I'll take it as a sign that he will remain in Sweden throughout his career.

1. Holmquist is way better than Liv

2. I think and Neil has said something along the lines of this a few times as well, that what more does Liv have to prove in the Swedish League? He's won many titles there, hes done his job and done it well. What more is there to do? simple. AHL

Ya hes in his 20s your upset hes not turning into the soild goalie he was projected to be? sh*t happens man, doesn't mean hes done.

1. Holmquist or do you mean Lundquist?

2. I'm not upset at all. I'm just saying you guys expect too much from him. He's really not a top prospect anymore. He's got plenty to prove on the Nat. team, but he didn't.

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Jimmy Howard would be a HUGE addidition to the Wings. Right now one of the things we are lacking is a goaltender, and he is a solid one coming up the pipeline. After all for the past few year the Wings have had top name goaltenders... Dominic Hasek and Cujo are not names to be thrown around lightly. So I just hope that Jimmy Howard will become another great, and have a great start with the Wings.

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2. I think and Neil has said something along the lines of this a few times as well, that what more does Liv have to prove in the Swedish League? He's won many titles there, hes done his job and done it well. What more is there to do? simple. AHL

Ya hes in his 20s your upset hes not turning into the soild goalie he was projected to be? sh*t happens man, doesn't mean hes done.

That is the problem. He shoulda came over last year to continue his development. He had nothing left to accomplish, but didn't venture over here. As Barnes said, he'll be 25 in December and has no N.American hockey experience. If he doesn't come over now, he'll be pretty close to 30 before he can crack the line-up, if Howard lets him. Personally I would love to see him come over, from what I understand he's quite a character, but I doubt we'll ever find out.

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^ No, I think he's right on. It's kinda now or never for Liv. It's already been mentioned that Liv has regressed slightly and that management wants him to step up. He lost the starting job to Rangers prospect Lundquist at the 2004 World Championships and he was cut from the World Cup team later that year. He only shared backup responsibilities with Holmquist during this years World Championships (Holmquist played two periods, Liv none). 

I rank both Howard and McDonald ahead of Liv who will turn 25 in December. If he doesn't come this year, I'll take it as a sign that he will remain in Sweden throughout his career.

1. Holmquist is way better than Liv

2. I think and Neil has said something along the lines of this a few times as well, that what more does Liv have to prove in the Swedish League? He's won many titles there, hes done his job and done it well. What more is there to do? simple. AHL

Ya hes in his 20s your upset hes not turning into the soild goalie he was projected to be? sh*t happens man, doesn't mean hes done.

1. Holmquist or do you mean Lundquist?

2. I'm not upset at all. I'm just saying you guys expect too much from him. He's really not a top prospect anymore. He's got plenty to prove on the Nat. team, but he didn't.

i meant Lundquist sorry for the confuson.

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2. I think and Neil has said something along the lines of this a few times as well, that what more does Liv have to prove in the Swedish League? He's won many titles there, hes done his job and done it well. What more is there to do? simple. AHL

Ya hes in his 20s your upset hes not turning into the soild goalie he was projected to be? sh*t happens man, doesn't mean hes done.

That is the problem. He shoulda came over last year to continue his development. He had nothing left to accomplish, but didn't venture over here. As Barnes said, he'll be 25 in December and has no N.American hockey experience. If he doesn't come over now, he'll be pretty close to 30 before he can crack the line-up, if Howard lets him. Personally I would love to see him come over, from what I understand he's quite a character, but I doubt we'll ever find out.

This I agree with. I guess what gets me is posters here knockin on Liv for being a flop when its really not him at all, its management. He easily should have been over in the AHL by now and your right if hes not here by 2006 or 2007 he will be done. Be done with the wings and instead signed and properly handled by another team.

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I would be sad to see Liv go elsewhere...I think even with his weaknesses he could star on several teams based on 03-04 rosters. He wouldn't be a top goalie by any means, but there are teams out there whose best tender was AHL-caliber.

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A small piece on Howard from today's Detroit News:

The Wings continue to negotiate with goaltender Jimmy Howard, whom they selected in the second round of the 2003 draft.

Howard is entering his senior year at the University of Maine, but the Wings are allowed to negotiate with him until school begins this fall. They would like to sign him and start his professional career.

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