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#161 Dominator2005

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:34 PM

QUOTE (mutherpucker27 @ August 15, 2005 - 04:28PM)
I said nothing about there being no need for those type of players. I said there's no need for a Sandy McCarthy or Brad Brown. There's no need for players who can't be trusted to step on the ice w/o giving up a scoring chance. Almost every player on your list can play actual hockey.

To be honest, I'd rather trade for one of those guys than sign some of the names that have been thrown around.

Hope you know that at least 70% of these kind of players were actually available but we didn't done nothing (beside giving Schneider $6.6M)... So there is no excuse... We have to do something that will put us in position to play against these kind of teams... There is no many ''great'' players left... Simpson, Brown, LaCouture could help us at least in getting bigger and tougher but not invincible.

Edited by Dominator2005, 15 August 2005 - 03:37 PM.

"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#162 ToddDaGod

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:35 PM

QUOTE
I said nothing about there being no need for those type of players. I said there's no need for a Sandy McCarthy or Brad Brown. There's no need for players who can't be trusted to step on the ice w/o giving up a scoring chance. Almost every player on your list can play actual hockey.

To be honest, I'd rather trade for one of those guys than sign some of the names that have been thrown around.


I think this thread has gotten a little outta control. Let me point out I'm not lobbying for Brown or McCarthy, but any player who can fight well. At this point, I don't care if they can skate, but given their job, it really doesn't depend on it too much. I woulda loved to see a skilled foward with some toughness, but that's out the window, so I'll settle with a goon or anybody who will contribute physically.

#163 Dominator2005

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:36 PM

QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ August 15, 2005 - 04:35PM)
QUOTE
I said nothing about there being no need for those type of players. I said there's no need for a Sandy McCarthy or Brad Brown. There's no need for players who can't be trusted to step on the ice w/o giving up a scoring chance. Almost every player on your list can play actual hockey.

To be honest, I'd rather trade for one of those guys than sign some of the names that have been thrown around.


I think this thread has gotten a little outta control. Let me point out I'm not lobbying for Brown or McCarthy, but any player who can fight well. At this point, I don't care if they can skate, but given their job, it really doesn't depend on it too much. I woulda loved to see a skilled foward with some toughness, but that's out the window, so I'll settle with a goon or anybody who will contribute physically.

Same here!!! lukevader.gif
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#164 Barnes52

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:37 PM

QUOTE (mutherpucker27 @ August 15, 2005 - 04:09PM)
"I'd rather take a chance on him then a guy who couldn't find his own defensive zone with a GPS system."

But you wanted Gratton? tongue.gif

No, I agree w/ you in principle there, but I still prefer to build from w/i the organization than pick off free agent scalps.

kocur: it'll deter some, and it'll encourage others. I think on the whole, it'll have a nil effect. And it isn't going to affect whether we win or lose games, either way.

I didn't necessarily want Gratton, to me, it was the principle. He was worth a gamble for sub 1mm, IMHO.

#165 Dominator2005

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:38 PM

QUOTE (Barnes52 @ August 15, 2005 - 04:37PM)
QUOTE (mutherpucker27 @ August 15, 2005 - 04:09PM)
"I'd rather take a chance on him then a guy who couldn't find his own defensive zone with a GPS system."

But you wanted Gratton? tongue.gif

No, I agree w/ you in principle there, but I still prefer to build from w/i the organization than pick off free agent scalps.

kocur: it'll deter some, and it'll encourage others. I think on the whole, it'll have a nil effect. And it isn't going to affect whether we win or lose games, either way.

I didn't necessarily want Gratton, to me, it was the principle. He was worth a gamble for sub 1mm, IMHO.

When there is 4-5 (this kind of players that we need left) - Gratton was good solution!!!!

Edited by Dominator2005, 15 August 2005 - 03:39 PM.

"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#166 ToddDaGod

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:45 PM

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Chris Gratton's a lazy *****. if we brought him in, we'd need to bring in someone else to protect him.


He's a third liner at best, he needs no prection. He is pretty lazy, but in a 3rd line role he's a pretty good option. Depth foward with some toughness is all that his career will come to, and that's all we woulda expected outta him. He's nowhere near a enforcer or scoring foward. But that's another post altogethor.

QUOTE
Then try to imagine what you said - You want Zetterberg and Datsyuk to start hitting... Hitting who??? Fedoruk, Shelley, Laraque???


Datsyuk can be shifty bastard. I remember him hitting Ference and tearing up his knee. He also layed somebody else out, don't remember who, but they weren't expecting it outta him. However, constant hitting will never be part of his game. If he tried to make it that way, he'd be injured constantly. Zetterberg I've never seen hit anybody. However, you really don't want a bunch of your top minute guys fighting and getting dirty.

#167 kocur26_26

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:45 PM

QUOTE (Barnes52 @ August 15, 2005 - 04:37PM)
QUOTE (mutherpucker27 @ August 15, 2005 - 04:09PM)
"I'd rather take a chance on him then a guy who couldn't find his own defensive zone with a GPS system."

But you wanted Gratton? tongue.gif

No, I agree w/ you in principle there, but I still prefer to build from w/i the organization than pick off free agent scalps.

kocur: it'll deter some, and it'll encourage others. I think on the whole, it'll have a nil effect. And it isn't going to affect whether we win or lose games, either way.

I didn't necessarily want Gratton, to me, it was the principle. He was worth a gamble for sub 1mm, IMHO.

thumbup.gif cool.gif thumbup.gif

#168 USAFWingedWheel

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:46 PM

QUOTE (Dominator2005 @ August 15, 2005 - 04:22PM)
And there is at least 1 true heavyweight in all these teams...

Sure... but we have Bootland and Shanahan and Chelios... blink.gif

bootland???-consistantly inconsistant
shanny- maybe 6 yrs ago...
chelios- he'll get knocked straight into a retirement house
...we don't have anyone that stands out as being a though guy, mac had the presence but it was slowly fadeing...all people remembered about him was march 26 1997 and thats what intimidated those that still rememberd...


#169 Dominator2005

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:49 PM

QUOTE (USAFWingedWheel @ August 15, 2005 - 04:46PM)
QUOTE (Dominator2005 @ August 15, 2005 - 04:22PM)
And there is at least 1 true heavyweight in all these teams...

Sure... but we have Bootland and Shanahan and Chelios...  blink.gif

bootland???-consistantly inconsistant
shanny- maybe 6 yrs ago...
chelios- he'll get knocked straight into a retirement house
...we don't have anyone that stands out as being a though guy, mac had the presence but it was slowly fadeing...all people remembered about him was march 26 1997 and thats what intimidated those that still rememberd...

It was sarcasm...
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#170 Dominator2005

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:52 PM

QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ August 15, 2005 - 04:45PM)

He's a third liner at best, he needs no prection. He is pretty lazy, but in a 3rd line role he's a pretty good option. Depth foward with some toughness is all that his career will come to, and that's all we woulda expected outta him. He's nowhere near a enforcer or scoring foward. But that's another post altogethor.



Datsyuk can be shifty bastard. I remember him hitting Ference and tearing up his knee. He also layed somebody else out, don't remember who, but they weren't expecting it outta him. However, constant hitting will never be part of his game. If he tried to make it that way, he'd be injured constantly. Zetterberg I've never seen hit anybody. However, you really don't want a bunch of your top minute guys fighting and getting dirty.

I don't want Datsyuk and Zetterberg start playing this kind of game... There a too small and they will get injured... If we had a big guys like Trent Hunter it would be another story. That's why I said we HAVE TO pick up someone who will do dirty jos for them...
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#171 USAFWingedWheel

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:57 PM

QUOTE (Dominator2005 @ August 15, 2005 - 04:49PM)
QUOTE (USAFWingedWheel @ August 15, 2005 - 04:46PM)
QUOTE (Dominator2005 @ August 15, 2005 - 04:22PM)
And there is at least 1 true heavyweight in all these teams...

Sure... but we have Bootland and Shanahan and Chelios...  blink.gif

bootland???-consistantly inconsistant
shanny- maybe 6 yrs ago...
chelios- he'll get knocked straight into a retirement house
...we don't have anyone that stands out as being a though guy, mac had the presence but it was slowly fadeing...all people remembered about him was march 26 1997 and thats what intimidated those that still rememberd...

It was sarcasm...

i realized it when it was too late wacko.gif

#172 ToddDaGod

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:00 PM

QUOTE
I don't want Datsyuk and Zetterberg start playing this kind of game... There a too small and they will get injured... If we had a big guys like Trent Hunter it would be another story. That's why I said we HAVE TO pick up someone who will do dirty jos for them...


Yeah, It sounded good in my head, but didn't tranfer to the keyboard well. I was agreeing that there's no way either will ever be physical.

#173 USAFWingedWheel

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:04 PM

why don't we just post bail for probert and put him back on ice...he'll sign for room and board....

#174 Dominator2005

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:13 PM

QUOTE (USAFWingedWheel @ August 15, 2005 - 05:04PM)
why don't we just post bail for probert and put him back on ice...he'll sign for room and board....

...and a free beer (bonus for signing)... yowza.gif
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#175 ToddDaGod

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:14 PM

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why don't we just post bail for probert and put him back on ice...he'll sign for room and board....


lol, that would be fantastic. Hell, it would probably be good for him, there aren't any police offers to fight on the ice.

#176 mutherpucker27

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:15 PM

My point on Datsyuk and Zetterberg got twisted a bit. I don't want them going out there and throwing their weight around constantly, but I do want them to be able to take abuse and fight through it instead of just floating around. They are never going to be able to score in the playoffs if they can't body through tight checking defense. And loading up the roster w/ goons isn't going to change that fact. That was more my point.

Barnes, as far as Gratton goes, here's our main disagreeing point. For 3rd/4th liners, pretty much the only thing I *really* care about is work ethic. That's #1 for me for any hockey player, really, but especially for guys on a "checking" line. You have to be willing to get your nose dirty and play physical, and you cannot take ANY shifts off. So I pass over a player like Gratton on principle b/c he has a reputation of being lazy and taking games off. I don't want players like that. That's my beef w/ Gratton. That's why I really had no interest in him whatsoever. The other thing was just that a lot of ppl had built Gratton into a "savior" type player, who was going to step in and make all our problems go away. All over the board, ppl were going "if we don't sign Chris Gratton, we'll miss the playoffs" or "if we don't sign Chris Gratton, we'll never win the Cup". And that's ridiculous. Chris Gratton has never performed well in the playoffs. How is he going to help us win a Cup?

Anyway, ultimately, I want guys who are going to give their all to the team. I don't want guys who are big but aren't going to bring their game everyday. Give me somebody who's going to go down and block a shot, or take a cross check in the back and go back into the corner 5 seconds later, or take a huge hit to negate an icing. Those are the players I want on the 3rd and 4th lines. Not Chris Gratton. He's not tough in any way that matters, and he won't address our toughness issues anymore than a combover fixes a lack of hair.

And Dom: please give me a list of those players that were realistically "available". I scanned the list and found about two.

#177 mutherpucker27

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:19 PM

Hehe, as far as Probert goes, that guy's a badass. I was talking to this guy in Windsor, and has saying how his dad was in a bar once, and Probert was in there, and ended up getting kicked out. Well, he didn't go quietly, lol. He ended up beating the crap out of five cops before all was done and said. At the same time.

Imagine if THAT happened in modern day sports, lmao.

#178 Dominator2005

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:24 PM

QUOTE (mutherpucker27 @ August 15, 2005 - 05:15PM)
My point on Datsyuk and Zetterberg got twisted a bit. I don't want them going out there and throwing their weight around constantly, but I do want them to be able to take abuse and fight through it instead of just floating around. They are never going to be able to score in the playoffs if they can't body through tight checking defense. And loading up the roster w/ goons isn't going to change that fact. That was more my point.

Barnes, as far as Gratton goes, here's our main disagreeing point. For 3rd/4th liners, pretty much the only thing I *really* care about is work ethic. That's #1 for me for any hockey player, really, but especially for guys on a "checking" line. You have to be willing to get your nose dirty and play physical, and you cannot take ANY shifts off. So I pass over a player like Gratton on principle b/c he has a reputation of being lazy and taking games off. I don't want players like that. That's my beef w/ Gratton. That's why I really had no interest in him whatsoever. The other thing was just that a lot of ppl had built Gratton into a "savior" type player, who was going to step in and make all our problems go away. All over the board, ppl were going "if we don't sign Chris Gratton, we'll miss the playoffs" or "if we don't sign Chris Gratton, we'll never win the Cup". And that's ridiculous. Chris Gratton has never performed well in the playoffs. How is he going to help us win a Cup?

Anyway, ultimately, I want guys who are going to give their all to the team. I don't want guys who are big but aren't going to bring their game everyday. Give me somebody who's going to go down and block a shot, or take a cross check in the back and go back into the corner 5 seconds later, or take a huge hit to negate an icing. Those are the players I want on the 3rd and 4th lines. Not Chris Gratton. He's not tough in any way that matters, and he won't address our toughness issues anymore than a combover fixes a lack of hair.

And Dom: please give me a list of those players that were realistically "available". I scanned the list and found about two.

http://www2.sportsne...nt_tracker.html



You should find some nice players on this list...


BTW trading is also option too bad that Kenny can't trade for gritty players...
"Some guys dream about scoring goals, or making big saves... I swear to God I dream about kicking ass in a hockey fight - no other way to say it than I love to do it, its who I am"... Brian McGrattan

#179 ToddDaGod

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:25 PM

QUOTE
My point on Datsyuk and Zetterberg got twisted a bit. I don't want them going out there and throwing their weight around constantly, but I do want them to be able to take abuse and fight through it instead of just floating around. They are never going to be able to score in the playoffs if they can't body through tight checking defense. And loading up the roster w/ goons isn't going to change that fact. That was more my point.


I totally agree, and wish they would also. Mike Babcock should help with that. But I still dunno how effective they will be. Goons won't change that, especially not in the playoffs, but I still wouldn't mind one or two. A fast grinding style is what most of the playoffs are, and I would love our team to compete like that. However, most of our grinders and physical guys are too old to make a difference, and our younger guys shy away from physical contact. However, goons will make the regular season easier for us, IMO.

#180 ToddDaGod

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:30 PM

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Hehe, as far as Probert goes, that guy's a badass. I was talking to this guy in Windsor, and has saying how his dad was in a bar once, and Probert was in there, and ended up getting kicked out. Well, he didn't go quietly, lol. He ended up beating the crap out of five cops before all was done and said. At the same time.

Imagine if THAT happened in modern day sports, lmao.


How does he keep getting aquitted of assault charges against officers? They had to taser him once in Florida I believe, and fights 5 cops outside a bar. It doesn't get any simpler than that! Must have one helluva lawyer.





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