Dale McWallace 0 Report post Posted October 16, 2005 yeah eva, chill out on the cleary/mowers debate. cleary is better than mowers as a fourth line/pk guy. simple as that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snapshots 0 Report post Posted October 17, 2005 Lots of this year's Red Wings are playing for small contracts (Mowers/Cleary/Samuelsson). Cleary and Sammy could resurrect their careers and sign bigger contracts with teams that have more cap room. Then again, with yzerman probably retiring, and Lidstrom's contract being up, we should have some room to sign them if we still want them. But IMO, shrewd GMs will be replacing $500,000 a year veterans every year. it's 4 games into the season, and so far, Cleary has been no more productive than Mowers, but Mowards has not made huge defensive mistakes like Cleary did vs Vancouver. What makes you think Cleary can resurrect his career yet Mowers is doomed to failure? Cleary has shown flashes of upside that I really haven't seen from Mowers. Mowers is a borderline NHLer. Cleary could develop into a solid energy line/PK guy. I mean, Cleary is all ready getting time on the PK in Detroit. Have we ever seen Mowers get any special teams duty? I don't think so. Mowers was never given any sort of ice time under Lewis, and he's played are more sound defensive game with fewer mental mistakes than Cleary this year. Neither have been explosive offensively but both have created chances. I mean, Cleary has made ONE bad play since joining the team. And he made up for that with some very hard work to set up the tieing goal. I have nothing against mowers. But he's not going to get better. He is what he is. What am I missing here? Why are you defending Mowers like I've insulted a future all-star or something.? He's a career 4th line/AHL guy. He was never drafted. He couldn't stick as a fourth liner in freakin' Nashville. He's got 8 goals in 141 games. He's a decent skater. He's versatile. He's cheap. That's why he's in the NHL. He'll never be more than a 4th liner. Ever. He's 31 years old and played 140 NHL games. Cleary obviously has been a disappointment in his career. But that's because he was a first round pick who scored 50 goals in junior. He's got good speed. He can kill penalties. He's four years younger than Mowers. He's got some offensive ability. He works hard. He can hit (unlike Mowers). He's hasn't seen minor league hockey action since 99-00. He's a bonafide NHLer. He's four years younger than Mowers and he's played more than twice the amount of games and scored 5 times more goals. There is no comparison. Cleary is better. Has been better. And he's upside is far better. Why is this even an issue? Grow up. I've never claimed Cleary was more than he is. A fourth liner with some third line potential and the ability to kill penalties. Likewise, I think Mowers is a useful guy to have around. A fourth liner who plays all three positions and who knows he can't get all bitter about sitting in the press box because he knows he's lucky he's not playing in Switzerland. All I did was compare Cleary to Mowers after your assinine misreading of what I said. Let's look back shall we: I said: Lots of this year's Red Wings are playing for small contracts (Mowers/Cleary/Samuelsson). Cleary and Sammy could resurrect their careers and sign bigger contracts with teams that have more cap room. Then again, with yzerman probably retiring, and Lidstrom's contract being up, we should have some room to sign them if we still want them. But IMO, shrewd GMs will be replacing $500,000 a year veterans every year. You responded it's 4 games into the season, and so far, Cleary has been no more productive than Mowers, but Mowards has not made huge defensive mistakes like Cleary did vs Vancouver. What makes you think Cleary can resurrect his career yet Mowers is doomed to failure? I never said anywhere that Mowers was doomed to failure. You completely made that that up. The only thing "doomed to failure" in this debate is your unsupportable opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
p_diddy_datsyuk_13 2 Report post Posted October 18, 2005 i think hes back to where he was... if not better... hopefully, for his sake, the wings decide to make room for him in the offseason... i think at the rate hes going in russia, he can step in and net 20-25 goals right off the bat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimeBinder 28 Report post Posted October 18, 2005 Any new news on Grigs' progress?? Current scouting reports. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Satrebil 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2005 i think hes back to where he was... if not better... hopefully, for his sake, the wings decide to make room for him in the offseason... i think at the rate hes going in russia, he can step in and net 20-25 goals right off the bat That is a huge assumption to make. Jumping from the RSL to the NHL is not always a direct comparison. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heals_3000 0 Report post Posted October 18, 2005 grigs scored another goal in a 3-1 loss... 5 G 9 A 14 P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snapshots 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2005 That is a huge assumption to make. Jumping from the RSL to the NHL is not always a direct comparison. It is. People ought to temper their expectations with Grigorenko. I know he's stepped up and he's made a remarkable comeback, but still. He's still not back to where he was two years ago in terms of speed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heals_3000 0 Report post Posted October 20, 2005 Grigs scored his 6th goal of the season last night or so in a 3-1 win 6 Goals 9 Assists 15 Points Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimeBinder 28 Report post Posted October 21, 2005 Grigs scored his 6th goal of the season last night or so in a 3-1 win 6 Goals 9 Assists 15 Points He's tied with the "great" Malkin. Go Grigs! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yuri 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2005 Here's the most updated information on Igor Grigorenko, as of Tue Oct 25 - got an assist in a 2:2 tie with Molot/Perm. Played in all 19 games so far, 6 goals, 11 assists, for 17 pts, +4, 4 PIM, tied 6th-8th for points with Alex Morozov (ex-Penguin, now with Ak Bars Kazan) and Alex Korolyuk (ex-Shark, now with Vityaz Chekhov) - not a bad company after all... If my calculations are correct his current weight is around 216 pounds... sturdy built... His current team Severstal is not a frequent guest on Russian TV Sport Channel, though I've watched a couple of games and Igor was pretty good indeed... From what I've heard here Grigs was told by DRW, read Holland, and his agent to consistently recover from injuries and spend the entire season in Russia - his contract doesn't have an out-clause to go to NHL this year... So, let's hope he'll progress throughout the year and be in good condition to start next season as a Red Wing... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimeBinder 28 Report post Posted October 25, 2005 Here's the most updated information on Igor Grigorenko, as of Tue Oct 25 - got an assist in a 2:2 tie with Molot/Perm. Played in all 19 games so far, 6 goals, 11 assists, for 17 pts, +4, 4 PIM, tied 6th-8th for points with Alex Morozov (ex-Penguin, now with Ak Bars Kazan) and Alex Korolyuk (ex-Shark, now with Vityaz Chekhov) - not a bad company after all... If my calculations are correct his current weight is around 216 pounds... sturdy built... His current team Severstal is not a frequent guest on Russian TV Sport Channel, though I've watched a couple of games and Igor was pretty good indeed... From what I've heard here Grigs was told by DRW, read Holland, and his agent to consistently recover from injuries and spend the entire season in Russia - his contract doesn't have an out-clause to go to NHL this year... So, let's hope he'll progress throughout the year and be in good condition to start next season as a Red Wing... Nice Yuri. I'm assuming you are overseas? How do the games compare; if you've seen "The New NHL"? Grigs stills sounds like a bull. MASH in the corners - CRASH the net!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yuri 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2005 [quote=Nice Yuri. I'm assuming you are overseas? How do the games compare; if you've seen "The New NHL"? Grigs stills sounds like a bull. MASH in the corners - CRASH the net!!! [/quote} Hi, there... You are quite right in your assumptions: I'm based right in the heart of that country somebody in this thread has earlier referred to as non-European... I've got a dish at my premises, so I have a pleasure to watch at least three NHL games a week, though DRW is a rare bird on TV screens - two games in Oct and one game only in Nov... Believe me, games in Europe and North America are entirely incomparable, at least as far as overall tempo is concerned... First thing is that rinks here are much wider, which in theory should have given more open ice and, thus, more shooting and scoring chances, but... grabbing, obstruction holding, clutching and the likes are commonly used, kind of we-do-not-play-ourselves-and-won't-let-you tactics... A lot of games are merely boring... Though starting this season local zebras began to whistle a lot to prevent all the dirt on ice, still they keep being rather inconsistent even within one game... It is surprising how some guys manage to score around a point a game in such conditions... Checked TV schedule for this week, Grigs and his Severstal are gonna be on air coming Fri vs. Lokomotiv Yaroslavl, will share my impressions later... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zetterbergfan40 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2005 Checked TV schedule for this week, Grigs and his Severstal are gonna be on air coming Fri vs. Lokomotiv Yaroslavl, will share my impressions later... thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted October 27, 2005 Hi, there... You are quite right in your assumptions: I'm based right in the heart of that country somebody in this thread has earlier referred to as non-European... I've got a dish at my premises, so I have a pleasure to watch at least three NHL games a week, though DRW is a rare bird on TV screens - two games in Oct and one game only in Nov... Believe me, games in Europe and North America are entirely incomparable, at least as far as overall tempo is concerned... First thing is that rinks here are much wider, which in theory should have given more open ice and, thus, more shooting and scoring chances, but... grabbing, obstruction holding, clutching and the likes are commonly used, kind of we-do-not-play-ourselves-and-won't-let-you tactics... A lot of games are merely boring... Though starting this season local zebras began to whistle a lot to prevent all the dirt on ice, still they keep being rather inconsistent even within one game... It is surprising how some guys manage to score around a point a game in such conditions... Checked TV schedule for this week, Grigs and his Severstal are gonna be on air coming Fri vs. Lokomotiv Yaroslavl, will share my impressions later... Yeah..(2005 Wings first rounder) Jakub Kindl said that one of the things he had to adjust to was the much faster pace of the OHL game as oppose to the Czech League. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
