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Michigan Vs. Michigan State


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#21 eva unit zero

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 11:11 PM

QUOTE (Happy Pancake @ September 25, 2005 - 10:51PM)
I know they're 2-2 but I like how Michigan falls over 15 spots for losing by 3 points. Anyone else think Michigan gets the shaft in the polls sometimes?

Anyways, this is the first time I've been worried about playing MSU in years. Not to say that I don't think MSU ever has a chance to beat us, but I get worried when I don't think we'll win. This is going to be a game where Michigan shows what it's made of, either they're going to fade into the Big Ten night by losing again or they're going to wake the hell up and win a big game for once.

final poll of 1997 is all you need as proof of Michigan getting the shaft in the polls sometimes.

But I agree...I also wonder how Michigan can not move in the polls after clobbering Eastern 55-0...Notre Dame fell behind, but Cal moved ahead for fighting to beat Illinois 35-20...the same Illinois that nearly lost to RUTGERS, and would one week later get DESTROYED by MSU?

Michigan has always gotten the shaft in the polls...lose and they drop a dozen, win and they sometimes drop--a year or two back Michigan opened up with a few wins and steadily DROPPED while WINNING. Can you say wtf?
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#22 RockyMountainWingGal

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 11:32 PM

QUOTE (Happy Pancake @ September 25, 2005 - 09:51PM)
I know they're 2-2 but I like how Michigan falls over 15 spots for losing by 3 points. Anyone else think Michigan gets the shaft in the polls sometimes?

I actually disagree. The national pollsters are always happy to rank UM in the top ten, often top five, and even #1 preseason. It usually winds up working against us (see this year). I would rather work my way up through the season a bit (although the BCS will screw you that way too if you wind up #3 undefeated).

Although I'm a UM fan & grad, I would rather see a team from Michigan win the big ten title - therefore if the Spartans keep on their roll and beat us, I will root for them to win the conference. The way they are playing, it seems likely. Plus, it's been several years since they won, and the Spartans get one in eventually. wink.gif Don't see it being a blow-out though....

What are they saying about Carr in Michigan? I like the guy, but hey it might be time to go.....problem is UM usually hires from within so getting "new blood" and ideas isn't really an option....I still think Michigan has a very talented team...things just aren't going their way and they keep shooting themselves in the foot.

Probably going to miss most of the game Sat - hope it's a thriller...

Edited by RockyMountainWingGal, 25 September 2005 - 11:34 PM.

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#23 Hockeytown Red Wings

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 12:28 AM

If you want to know what Michigan fans are thinking, go to UMGoBlue.com forums. It's a been a wonderful read tonite. laugh.gif

In addition, this could be a good thing, shake the bandwagon loose of dead weight, it did wonders for OSU in the last of the Cooper years.

Edited by Hockeytown Red Wings, 26 September 2005 - 12:29 AM.


"During Robert Lang’s time in Detroit, he caused me anguish. Other times he brought me and my family great joy. Robert Lang occasionally coasts, and spends time searching for the best pane of glass to best view the reflection of his flowing mullet. Other times he is a strong-armed force with the puck. I never knew what to expect from Robert Lang. He is The Enigma. " - A2Y

#24 eva unit zero

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 02:13 AM

I think Carr is ridiculously underrated.

This is the first time in seven years Michigan has been unranked, and only the fifth time ever under Lloyd Carr (the previous four were all in the 1998 season in which they were Big Ten champions). Michigan has been top ten 63 times under Carr. Carr came into the season at 95-26, meaning he's averaged better than nine wins per season.

Carr is one of only eight coaches to EVER win five big ten championships, one of only three at Michigan.

Carr has never not gone to a bowl game with Michigan.

Carr's teams are 63-18 in Big Ten play and he is the active leader in Big Ten victories.

Yet somehow, he gets no credit as the great coach that he is, and if Michigan even so much as stumbles, Michigan fans and non-fans alike are "Fire Carr!"

Wtf?
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#25 timothy1997

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 09:16 AM

QUOTE (eva unit zero @ September 26, 2005 - 08:13AM)
I think Carr is ridiculously underrated.

This is the first time in seven years Michigan has been unranked, and only the fifth time ever under Lloyd Carr (the previous four were all in the 1998 season in which they were Big Ten champions). Michigan has been top ten 63 times under Carr. Carr came into the season at 95-26, meaning he's averaged better than nine wins per season.

Carr is one of only eight coaches to EVER win five big ten championships, one of only three at Michigan.

Carr has never not gone to a bowl game with Michigan.

Carr's teams are 63-18 in Big Ten play and he is the active leader in Big Ten victories.

Yet somehow, he gets no credit as the great coach that he is, and if Michigan even so much as stumbles, Michigan fans and non-fans alike are "Fire Carr!"

Wtf?

Michigan under Lloyd Carr is....


4-9: Michigan's combined record against Ohio State, Notre Dame, Iowa and in bowl games going back to 2002.
5-5: Bowl Record
3-4: Record against Notre Dame
0-2: Record against Big 12 including Bowl Games
1-2: Record in Rose Bowl
5-5: Record against Ohio State
3-4: Record against Pac 10


This pretty much sums up a pretty AVERAGE coach. However, at Michigan....the most winningest college football program, is average enough.

http://www.firelloydcarr.us/

#26 gowingsgo

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 11:30 AM

Fire Lloyd Carr.us.

Now thats some funny stuff. We need a regime change at Michigan.

College football badly needs a system change too though. They are all messed up with this BCS bowl game system. Only major sport to not crown a national champion through a tournament. Therefore it is not a major sport, not in my opinion anymore
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#27 timothy1997

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 11:33 AM

QUOTE (gowingsgo @ September 26, 2005 - 05:30PM)
Fire Lloyd Carr.us.

Now thats some funny stuff. We need a regime change at Michigan.

College football badly needs a system change too though. They are all messed up with this BCS bowl game system. Only major sport to not crown a national champion through a tournament. Therefore it is not a major sport, not in my opinion anymore

While I agree with you on there should be a College Football tournament, to call college football not a major sport is obsurd. College Football brings in the most money for the school and more people watch college football than say...college baseball. College football is definately a major sport.

#28 KronwallCRUNCH

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 03:11 AM

All of you Anti-Carr people are funny. It's not his fault that Michigan's talent level has dropped and MSU's has increased. If U of M won (which I strongly doubt that they will), all of the bandwagoning Carr-haters will forget about him and start cheering about the Wolverines again. Coaches don't lose their ability to coach over time, but teams do lose their good players.


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#29 Hockeytown Red Wings

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 02:49 PM

Hasnt Michigan been in the top 5 recruiting classes the last couple of years. I dont think talent is the issue. It has to be coaching on some level. The Michigan players have not been executing a lot of their assignments throughout the season, that has to come back to coaching and practice at some point.

"During Robert Lang’s time in Detroit, he caused me anguish. Other times he brought me and my family great joy. Robert Lang occasionally coasts, and spends time searching for the best pane of glass to best view the reflection of his flowing mullet. Other times he is a strong-armed force with the puck. I never knew what to expect from Robert Lang. He is The Enigma. " - A2Y

#30 Trapt1307

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE (MotownIce @ September 27, 2005 - 04:11AM)
All of you Anti-Carr people are funny. It's not his fault that Michigan's talent level has dropped and MSU's has increased. If U of M won (which I strongly doubt that they will), all of the bandwagoning Carr-haters will forget about him and start cheering about the Wolverines again. Coaches don't lose their ability to coach over time, but teams do lose their good players.


GO GREEN!

How do you figure? Michigan's talent hasn't decreased one bit. They're probably the most talented team in the nation outside of USC and maybe Texas. They have a top five recruiting class EVERY season.
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#31 dallas27

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 10:03 PM

QUOTE (MotownIce @ September 27, 2005 - 04:11AM)
All of you Anti-Carr people are funny. It's not his fault that Michigan's talent level has dropped and MSU's has increased. If U of M won (which I strongly doubt that they will), all of the bandwagoning Carr-haters will forget about him and start cheering about the Wolverines again. Coaches don't lose their ability to coach over time, but teams do lose their good players.


GO GREEN!

People have been saying Carr is way too conservative for many years. Of course people aren't going to be complaining as much when they are winning becuase....well....they are winning. However, that doesn't change the fact that he is conservative as hell. Michigan at 2-2 is unacceptable, you can blame the refs for the two botched touchdown calls, blame whatever or whoever, still doesn't change the fact that he isn't aggressive one bit.

Teams do lose their good players but Coaches don't lose their abilitly to coach [conservatively] over time. wink.gif


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#32 eva unit zero

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 11:32 PM

QUOTE (timothy1997 @ September 26, 2005 - 10:16AM)
QUOTE (eva unit zero @ September 26, 2005 - 08:13AM)
I think Carr is ridiculously underrated.

This is the first time in seven years Michigan has been unranked, and only the fifth time ever under Lloyd Carr (the previous four were all in the 1998 season in which they were Big Ten champions). Michigan has been top ten 63 times under Carr. Carr came into the season at 95-26, meaning he's averaged better than nine wins per season.

Carr is one of only eight coaches to EVER win five big ten championships, one of only three at Michigan.

Carr has never not gone to a bowl game with Michigan.

Carr's teams are 63-18 in Big Ten play and he is the active leader in Big Ten victories.

Yet somehow, he gets no credit as the great coach that he is, and if Michigan even so much as stumbles, Michigan fans and non-fans alike are "Fire Carr!"

Wtf?

Michigan under Lloyd Carr is....


4-9: Michigan's combined record against Ohio State, Notre Dame, Iowa and in bowl games going back to 2002.
5-5: Bowl Record
3-4: Record against Notre Dame
0-2: Record against Big 12 including Bowl Games
1-2: Record in Rose Bowl
5-5: Record against Ohio State
3-4: Record against Pac 10


This pretty much sums up a pretty AVERAGE coach. However, at Michigan....the most winningest college football program, is average enough.

http://www.firelloydcarr.us/

Lloyd Carr is the best head coach Michigan has had since Fielding Yost.

Seriously...how many head coaches have had a national championship since 1995?

How many coaches have gone to a bowl game every year they've been a head coach?

How many can claim that every signle one of their former starting quarterbacks has gone on to the NFL, including Tom Brady, who has been named Super Bowl MVP how many times now?
"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
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#33 timothy1997

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 10:04 AM

QUOTE (eva unit zero @ September 28, 2005 - 05:32AM)
QUOTE (timothy1997 @ September 26, 2005 - 10:16AM)
QUOTE (eva unit zero @ September 26, 2005 - 08:13AM)
I think Carr is ridiculously underrated.

This is the first time in seven years Michigan has been unranked, and only the fifth time ever under Lloyd Carr (the previous four were all in the 1998 season in which they were Big Ten champions). Michigan has been top ten 63 times under Carr. Carr came into the season at 95-26, meaning he's averaged better than nine wins per season.

Carr is one of only eight coaches to EVER win five big ten championships, one of only three at Michigan.

Carr has never not gone to a bowl game with Michigan.

Carr's teams are 63-18 in Big Ten play and he is the active leader in Big Ten victories.

Yet somehow, he gets no credit as the great coach that he is, and if Michigan even so much as stumbles, Michigan fans and non-fans alike are "Fire Carr!"

Wtf?

Michigan under Lloyd Carr is....


4-9: Michigan's combined record against Ohio State, Notre Dame, Iowa and in bowl games going back to 2002.
5-5: Bowl Record
3-4: Record against Notre Dame
0-2: Record against Big 12 including Bowl Games
1-2: Record in Rose Bowl
5-5: Record against Ohio State
3-4: Record against Pac 10


This pretty much sums up a pretty AVERAGE coach. However, at Michigan....the most winningest college football program, is average enough.

http://www.firelloydcarr.us/

Lloyd Carr is the best head coach Michigan has had since Fielding Yost.

Seriously...how many head coaches have had a national championship since 1995?

How many coaches have gone to a bowl game every year they've been a head coach?

How many can claim that every signle one of their former starting quarterbacks has gone on to the NFL, including Tom Brady, who has been named Super Bowl MVP how many times now?

hey. if you are happy with the job lloyd carr is doing, thats fine. I wouldnt be. You have each and every year, one of best recruiting classes and yet can't do anything with them. Lloyd Carr is too conservative and the team is weak against any quarterback that can run. Michigan is 2-4 in their last six games. Thats huge. If Michigan went any stretch like that during a season, they would fire the coach immediately. Michigan better do something or its MOTOR CITY BOWL BOUND!

#34 Hockeytown Red Wings

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 10:43 AM

Michigan should take a look at hiring John Cooper. Maybe he can rejuvenate your program this decade like he did in the 90's.

"During Robert Lang’s time in Detroit, he caused me anguish. Other times he brought me and my family great joy. Robert Lang occasionally coasts, and spends time searching for the best pane of glass to best view the reflection of his flowing mullet. Other times he is a strong-armed force with the puck. I never knew what to expect from Robert Lang. He is The Enigma. " - A2Y

#35 Icer

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 10:46 AM

QUOTE (timothy1997 @ September 25, 2005 - 10:50AM)
I will be curious to see if Mike Hart plays for Michigan this saturday. The Wolverines desperately need Hart to play.

Based on everything I've read, Hart is a possible for this weekend. Since this is such a big game I think it will be tough to keep him out of the lineup. John L and the Spartans are expecting him to play and have been running their practices accordingly.

As for a prediction, I am optimistic about the Spartan's chances. Especially after the way they demolished the Illini. But this is a big rivalry game. Anything can happen. You might as well throw records out the window.

#36 eva unit zero

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 12:08 PM

QUOTE (Icer @ September 28, 2005 - 11:46AM)
Based on everything I've read, Hart is a possible for this weekend. Since this is such a big game I think it will be tough to keep him out of the lineup. John L and the Spartans are expecting him to play and have been running their practices accordingly.

As for a prediction, I am optimistic about the Spartan's chances. Especially after the way they demolished the Illini. But this is a big rivalry game. Anything can happen. You might as well throw records out the window.

The Illini barely beat Rutgers and were losing most of the game...they are a pathetic excuse for Big Ten team.

Michigan slaughtered Eastern...so what?

and yes, Michigan has gone 2-4 in their last 6 games...but each of those losses was close, and aside from a couple calls I've already mentioned, a couple should have been even closer.
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#37 Hockeytown Red Wings

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 04:04 PM

QUOTE (eva unit zero @ September 28, 2005 - 02:08PM)
QUOTE (Icer @ September 28, 2005 - 11:46AM)
Based on everything I've read, Hart is a possible for this weekend. Since this is such a big game I think it will be tough to keep him out of the lineup. John L and the Spartans are expecting him to play and have been running their practices accordingly.

As for a prediction, I am optimistic about the Spartan's chances. Especially after the way they demolished the Illini. But this is a big rivalry game. Anything can happen. You might as well throw records out the window.

The Illini barely beat Rutgers and were losing most of the game...they are a pathetic excuse for Big Ten team.

Michigan slaughtered Eastern...so what?

and yes, Michigan has gone 2-4 in their last 6 games...but each of those losses was close, and aside from a couple calls I've already mentioned, a couple should have been even closer.

Actually that one game you played in Columbus against that one team....wasnt very close after the first half. And even then, it wasnt looking as close as the score.

Can we all at least agree that LLLoyd Carr has the personality of dried raisin?

"During Robert Lang’s time in Detroit, he caused me anguish. Other times he brought me and my family great joy. Robert Lang occasionally coasts, and spends time searching for the best pane of glass to best view the reflection of his flowing mullet. Other times he is a strong-armed force with the puck. I never knew what to expect from Robert Lang. He is The Enigma. " - A2Y

#38 RockyMountainWingGal

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Posted 28 September 2005 - 08:01 PM

QUOTE (timothy1997 @ September 26, 2005 - 09:16AM)
Michigan under Lloyd Carr is....


4-9: Michigan's combined record against Ohio State, Notre Dame, Iowa and in bowl games going back to 2002.
5-5: Bowl Record
3-4: Record against Notre Dame
0-2: Record against Big 12 including Bowl Games
1-2: Record in Rose Bowl
5-5: Record against Ohio State
3-4: Record against Pac 10


This pretty much sums up a pretty AVERAGE coach. However, at Michigan....the most winningest college football program, is average enough.

http://www.firelloydcarr.us/

5-5 Bowl record doesn't bother me, considering we're often playing top 5 teams (ie USC, Texas, etc)

3-4 vs the Irish is very sub-par, considering they haven't been very good for much of this stretch, but it is a rivalry series

1-2 in Rose Bowl: not great, but UM has never played well on the West coast - it was worse under Bo

5-5 vs OSU: probably as expected considering the heated rivalry and talent of both teams

3-4 vs Pac-ten; so-so; most of those games were on the West coast though - those pansies rarely want to fly up to the midwest to play.

As a Spartan fan, wouldn't you take most of Carr's statistics over the course of his coaching?

I have nothing personal against Lloyd Carr - I have liked him as the Wolverine's coach since he arrived (better than Bo if you ask me). I also respect that UM tends to keep coaches around for awhile and rewards loyalty (although I thought Mo was terrible). How many coaches has MSU gone through during this time? Sabin, Williams (?), Smith?? I'm still not sold on Smith - he's just "OK" - I certainly don't see him as being better than Carr. Point is though, that I think it is OK to question the coaching tenure of Carr - and if it turns that the University thinks it's time for a change, then so be it. But I'm not calling for him to be "fired" in the heat of the moment.
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#39 timothy1997

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 07:09 AM

QUOTE (RockyMountainWingGal @ September 29, 2005 - 02:01AM)
QUOTE (timothy1997 @ September 26, 2005 - 09:16AM)
Michigan under Lloyd Carr is....


4-9: Michigan's combined record against Ohio State, Notre Dame, Iowa and in bowl games going back to 2002. 
5-5: Bowl Record
3-4: Record against Notre Dame
0-2: Record against Big 12 including Bowl Games
1-2: Record in Rose Bowl
5-5: Record against Ohio State
3-4: Record against Pac 10


This pretty much sums up a pretty AVERAGE coach. However, at Michigan....the most winningest college football program, is average enough.

http://www.firelloydcarr.us/

5-5 Bowl record doesn't bother me, considering we're often playing top 5 teams (ie USC, Texas, etc)

3-4 vs the Irish is very sub-par, considering they haven't been very good for much of this stretch, but it is a rivalry series

1-2 in Rose Bowl: not great, but UM has never played well on the West coast - it was worse under Bo

5-5 vs OSU: probably as expected considering the heated rivalry and talent of both teams

3-4 vs Pac-ten; so-so; most of those games were on the West coast though - those pansies rarely want to fly up to the midwest to play.

As a Spartan fan, wouldn't you take most of Carr's statistics over the course of his coaching?

I have nothing personal against Lloyd Carr - I have liked him as the Wolverine's coach since he arrived (better than Bo if you ask me). I also respect that UM tends to keep coaches around for awhile and rewards loyalty (although I thought Mo was terrible). How many coaches has MSU gone through during this time? Sabin, Williams (?), Smith?? I'm still not sold on Smith - he's just "OK" - I certainly don't see him as being better than Carr. Point is though, that I think it is OK to question the coaching tenure of Carr - and if it turns that the University thinks it's time for a change, then so be it. But I'm not calling for him to be "fired" in the heat of the moment.

the difference is tho that michigan has a tradition of being a better team than michigan state, probably will always be. Michigan has no problem getting the top high school recruits and getting 106,000+ in their staduim. Michigan is a nationally known school known for its rich football history.

the problem is tho that carr has not delivered since 97. Too many losses to teams it should have beat, and he has taken his school with high expectations and lowered them. Michigan's goal year and year out should be to WIN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. For a long time, the goal at Michigan was to WIN THE ROSE BOWL. Now Carr is happy to even BE IN THE ROSE BOWL. There is a definately decline in expectations. What is next? Just be in the TOP 3 OF THE BIG TEN??
Time for a change now.

#40 Icer

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 10:29 AM

QUOTE (eva unit zero @ September 28, 2005 - 01:08PM)
QUOTE (Icer @ September 28, 2005 - 11:46AM)
As for a prediction, I am optimistic about the Spartan's chances. Especially after the way they demolished the Illini. 

The Illini barely beat Rutgers and were losing most of the game...they are a pathetic excuse for Big Ten team.

I never said Illinois was all that great. But they are the kind of team MSU usually has trouble with, especially sandwiched between a big win against ND and a big rivalry game with UM. Instead of falling flat, Stanton and company took care of business, not just winning the game but rewriting the MSU record books (total offense, passing td's, rushing yards for a freshman) piling up more than 600 yards. I'm optimistic because I think MSU will have that same focus against UM.




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