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Brad Ference?


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#1 ToddDaGod

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 11:34 AM

Spector's reporting that Ference is on the trading block. He's only 26, and he's 6'3 217 pounds. He has no offense at all, but is inexpensive and could be valuable. I would prefer a foward, but I'll take what I can get. Thoughts?

#2 archemedes

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 01:38 PM

I think I'd pass on him, a total of 4 goals and 30 assists in his career, a -43, and 9 of his assists are on the pp.I don't think he'd help much

#3 ToddDaGod

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 01:50 PM

QUOTE
I think I'd pass on him, a total of 4 goals and 30 assists in his career, a -43, and 9 of his assists are on the pp.I don't think he'd help much


Well, we have Lidstrom and Schneider, 2 of the best offensive d-men in the NHL. Plus our team was second in scoring last season. Scoring is and will not be an issue with this club. Toughness on the other hand...

#4 BeeRYCE

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 01:57 PM

QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ October 2, 2005 - 02:50PM)

Well, we have Lidstrom and Schneider, 2 of the best offensive d-men in the NHL.

Wrong.

Leech, Niedermeyer, Tarnstrom, Gonchar, Berard, Pronger, Zidlicky, Zubov... Just to name a few. I would consider Schneider a 2 way defenseman, and Lidstrom's definately defense. Yeah, 2 of the best offensive defenseman, if you want to add 15 other defenseman to the table.



#5 archemedes

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 01:58 PM

you want a tough guy go sign a boxer.I want a guy who plays hockey not drop the gloves every chance he gets and keep the team on the penalty kill.(he has 540 some pims too in 245 games.
Avery who is supposed to take a ton of stupid penalties has 482 in163 games (see the resemblance?)

#6 Barnes52

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:18 PM

QUOTE (archemedes @ October 2, 2005 - 02:58PM)
you want a tough guy go sign a boxer.I want a guy who plays hockey not drop the gloves every chance he gets and keep the team on the penalty kill.(he has 540 some pims too in 245 games.
Avery who is supposed to take a ton of stupid penalties has 482 in163 games (see the resemblance?)

Another ignoramous... rolleyes.gif

Getting toughness does not mean getting a guy who'll put us on the penalty kill night in and night out. Every other team in the league has one or two toughguys, look at NJ, they have 3 tough guys, their GM has won more cups then Kenny Boy (I know, hard to believe). Bowman is on record as saying we need at least one enforcer, even Holland has said it, so your argument is tired and old. I do agree, there are quite a few guys who would hurt us by collecting penalties and acting like an idiot, but there are so many more...guys like Oliwa, Simon, Laraque etc...who would help immensely, they can play a fourth line grinder role, and give our team some confidence....the last SC Finals matchup had 2 teams with toughguys playing on 1st thru the 4th lines....Lastly, Sean Avery is an enforcer in your mind only it seems sly.gif

Edited by Barnes52, 02 October 2005 - 02:19 PM.


#7 BeeRYCE

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:19 PM

Tough guys are intimidation for the other teams. You NEED a tough guy. It's value.

#8 ToddDaGod

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:22 PM

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Wrong.

Leech, Niedermeyer, Tarnstrom, Gonchar, Berard, Pronger, Zidlicky, Zubov... Just to name a few. I would consider Schneider a 2 way defenseman, and Lidstrom's definately defense. Yeah, 2 of the best offensive defenseman, if you want to add 15 other defenseman to the table.


Schneider is no slouch, and is easily better than Berard and Tarnstrom. Even so, Lidstrom is the best, and I'de rank Schneider in the top 10, especially after last year.

QUOTE
you want a tough guy go sign a boxer.I want a guy who plays hockey not drop the gloves every chance he gets and keep the team on the penalty kill.(he has 540 some pims too in 245 games.


Why do you assume when you fight you go on the penalty kill? For the 900th time, Bowman, Babcock, and Holland say we need more toughness. Here is a young capable, cheap guy who won't log a ton of minutes, but is capable of playing hockey and fighting. I would love to sign a boxer, or maybe Tank Abbot if he learns how to skate. McCarty actually took boxing lessons.

#9 BeeRYCE

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:28 PM

QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ October 2, 2005 - 03:22PM)
QUOTE
Wrong.

Leech, Niedermeyer, Tarnstrom, Gonchar, Berard, Pronger, Zidlicky, Zubov... Just to name a few. I would consider Schneider a 2 way defenseman, and Lidstrom's definately defense. Yeah, 2 of the best offensive defenseman, if you want to add 15 other defenseman to the table.


Schneider is no slouch, and is easily better than Berard and Tarnstrom. Even so, Lidstrom is the best, and I'de rank Schneider in the top 10, especially after last year.



Why do you assume when you fight you go on the penalty kill? For the 900th time, Bowman, Babcock, and Holland say we need more toughness. Here is a young capable, cheap guy who won't log a ton of minutes, but is capable of playing hockey and fighting. I would love to sign a boxer, or maybe Tank Abbot if he learns how to skate. McCarty actually took boxing lessons.

Yes, Lidstrom is the best defensemen in the league. If not 2nd best, but being the best defenseman doesn't make you the best offensive D-man.

#10 Hatcher#2

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:28 PM

QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ October 2, 2005 - 12:34PM)
Spector's reporting that Ference is on the trading block. He's only 26, and he's 6'3 217 pounds. He has no offense at all, but is inexpensive and could be valuable. I would prefer a foward, but I'll take what I can get. Thoughts?

Although he is tough, he is not tough enough to be this teams no.1 guy, the Wings need someone like Oliwa or Langdon someone who can drop them with anyone and send a message but then again he is better than nothing. I seriously think Holland will get a forward for the fourth line.

Edited by Hatcher#2, 02 October 2005 - 02:32 PM.

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#11 ToddDaGod

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:34 PM

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Yes, Lidstrom is the best defensemen in the league. If not 2nd best, but being the best defenseman doesn't make you the best offensive D-man.


So who is?

QUOTE
Although he is tough, is not tough enough to be this teams no.1 guy, the Wings need someone like Oliwa or Langdon someone who can drop them with anyone and send a message but then again he is better than nothing. I seriously think Holland will get a forward for the fourth line though.


I agree, but he would be a nice fit with Chelios. Plus he can move fairly well. And he's never been on a good team, so it would be interesting to see what he could do. We could prolly get him for a late round pick, most likely conditional.

#12 Hatcher#2

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:43 PM

QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ October 2, 2005 - 03:34PM)
I agree, but he would be a nice fit with Chelios. Plus he can move fairly well. And he's never been on a good team, so it would be interesting to see what he could do. We could prolly get him for a late round pick, most likely conditional.

It would be great if we could sign him just for his hitting and aggressive style and also pick up a real enforcer (im dreaming smile.gif )
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#13 archemedes

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:52 PM

QUOTE (Barnes52 @ October 2, 2005 - 02:18PM)
QUOTE (archemedes @ October 2, 2005 - 02:58PM)
you want a tough guy go sign a boxer.I want a guy who plays hockey not drop the gloves every chance he gets and keep the team on the penalty kill.(he has 540 some pims too in 245 games.
Avery who is supposed to take a ton of stupid penalties has 482 in163 games (see the resemblance?)

Another ignoramous... rolleyes.gif

Getting toughness does not mean getting a guy who'll put us on the penalty kill night in and night out. Every other team in the league has one or two toughguys, look at NJ, they have 3 tough guys, their GM has won more cups then Kenny Boy (I know, hard to believe). Bowman is on record as saying we need at least one enforcer, even Holland has said it, so your argument is tired and old. I do agree, there are quite a few guys who would hurt us by collecting penalties and acting like an idiot, but there are so many more...guys like Oliwa, Simon, Laraque etc...who would help immensely, they can play a fourth line grinder role, and give our team some confidence....the last SC Finals matchup had 2 teams with toughguys playing on 1st thru the 4th lines....Lastly, Sean Avery is an enforcer in your mind only it seems sly.gif

sorry I believe a hockey player should play hockey not fight only (if he can't score, or defend he's a figure skating boxer and deserves to be out of the league) I hate people saying a team has to have a fighter, if I want to see a fight I watch boxing.Keep in mind there are rules that limit fighting (they haven't been enforced, but they are there)such as the wording of instigator (you chase a guy to fight him it's supposed to be an instigator penalty)I used Avery as an example since he is known to take alot of penalties.It seems if it was up to you there would be one skilled player and a bunch of goons on each team. The wings will get someone who can fill both roles well enough they don't need a guy who appears mediocre at best.We really didn't have an enforcer the last season but did pretty well (until playoffs, which may be taken care of with coaching)

#14 ToddDaGod

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 03:27 PM

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sorry I believe a hockey player should play hockey not fight only (if he can't score, or defend he's a figure skating boxer and deserves to be out of the league) I hate people saying a team has to have a fighter, if I want to see a fight I watch boxing.Keep in mind there are rules that limit fighting (they haven't been enforced, but they are there)such as the wording of instigator (you chase a guy to fight him it's supposed to be an instigator penalty)I used Avery as an example since he is known to take alot of penalties.It seems if it was up to you there would be one skilled player and a bunch of goons on each team. The wings will get someone who can fill both roles well enough they don't need a guy who appears mediocre at best.We really didn't have an enforcer the last season but did pretty well (until playoffs, which may be taken care of with coaching)


Stupidity seems to flowing today. That's fantastic that you think Hockey players should never be physical or fight, but fighting has been a part of hockey since the NHL started in 1917. That's great you jumped on the band wagon recently, but get a clue. Not once has anybody said we need a team of goons. You think coaching is the reason we lost in the playoffs? Our old ass team was so tired out they had nothing left, because Nashville and Calgary ground us down to nothing. Lewis did everything he could to keep us in it, and we couldn't do a damn thing. Wings are going to get someone to fill both roles? When? If their are tons of good, two way players who can fill both roles, wouldn't we have gotten one by now? Check into it and see how many instagator penalties have been given out in the preseason, it's probably a lot less than you think. Bottom line is we need toughness. Bowman knows it. Babcock knows it. Yzerman knows it. Shanahan knows it. Holland says he knows it. What are you missing here?

#15 archemedes

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 03:39 PM

I'm saying don't add a guy to do nothing but fight that is not hockey that's what children want.you add a multi dimensional player (Like what Howe was) The keep saying they are going to start calling the rules (they haven't, but shouldn't the coaches prepare as if they will?)There aren't many players who fit the role, but to add a detriment to the lineup to fill a role that really isn't that important (you'd think everyone currently on the roster was made of glass the way you guys talk)you guys keep talking like Holland doesn't know what he's doing, but he's built one of the top franchises in the league from garbage (the team was worse than Washington is before Ilitch bought them)I wonder if you guys will ever be happy with team management

#16 BeeRYCE

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 03:50 PM

QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ October 2, 2005 - 03:34PM)

  So who is?

Best offensive defensemen are Gonchar and Niedermeyer, quite easily. Best of this era is Leetch.

Best ever.. Well, you know who.

Edited by BeeRYCE, 02 October 2005 - 03:50 PM.


#17 Hatcher#2

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 04:11 PM

QUOTE (archemedes @ October 2, 2005 - 04:39PM)
I'm saying don't add a guy to do nothing but fight that is not hockey that's what children want.you add a multi dimensional player (Like what Howe was) The keep saying they are going to start calling the rules (they haven't, but shouldn't the coaches prepare as if they will?)There aren't many players who fit the role, but to add a detriment to the lineup to fill a role that really isn't that important (you'd think everyone currently on the roster was made of glass the way you guys talk)you guys keep talking like Holland doesn't know what he's doing, but he's built one of the top franchises in the league from garbage (the team was worse than Washington is before Ilitch bought them)I wonder if you guys will ever be happy with team management

Teams used to fear playing the Wings when they had Probert and Kocur playing, the Wings never won much back then because they had little skill to go along with the brawn but if you add some toughness to this team then you have a good balance of toughness and talent and a real contender and as Barnes and Toddagod have said above Bowman, Babcock and Holland all know this and have said it publicly so why don't you get it.

Edited by Hatcher#2, 02 October 2005 - 04:12 PM.

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#18 theman19

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 05:19 PM

QUOTE (BeeRYCE @ October 2, 2005 - 04:50PM)
QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ October 2, 2005 - 03:34PM)

  So who is?

Best offensive defensemen are Gonchar and Niedermeyer, quite easily. Best of this era is Leetch.

Best ever.. Well, you know who.

best of this era is paul coffey as he has more than enough stats to warrent it.

#19 Barnes52

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 05:58 PM

QUOTE (archemedes @ October 2, 2005 - 03:52PM)
QUOTE (Barnes52 @ October 2, 2005 - 02:18PM)
QUOTE (archemedes @ October 2, 2005 - 02:58PM)
you want a tough guy go sign a boxer.I want a guy who plays hockey not drop the gloves every chance he gets and keep the team on the penalty kill.(he has 540 some pims too in 245 games.
Avery who is supposed to take a ton of stupid penalties has 482 in163 games (see the resemblance?)

Another ignoramous... rolleyes.gif

Getting toughness does not mean getting a guy who'll put us on the penalty kill night in and night out. Every other team in the league has one or two toughguys, look at NJ, they have 3 tough guys, their GM has won more cups then Kenny Boy (I know, hard to believe). Bowman is on record as saying we need at least one enforcer, even Holland has said it, so your argument is tired and old. I do agree, there are quite a few guys who would hurt us by collecting penalties and acting like an idiot, but there are so many more...guys like Oliwa, Simon, Laraque etc...who would help immensely, they can play a fourth line grinder role, and give our team some confidence....the last SC Finals matchup had 2 teams with toughguys playing on 1st thru the 4th lines....Lastly, Sean Avery is an enforcer in your mind only it seems sly.gif

sorry I believe a hockey player should play hockey not fight only (if he can't score, or defend he's a figure skating boxer and deserves to be out of the league) I hate people saying a team has to have a fighter, if I want to see a fight I watch boxing.Keep in mind there are rules that limit fighting (they haven't been enforced, but they are there)such as the wording of instigator (you chase a guy to fight him it's supposed to be an instigator penalty)I used Avery as an example since he is known to take alot of penalties.It seems if it was up to you there would be one skilled player and a bunch of goons on each team. The wings will get someone who can fill both roles well enough they don't need a guy who appears mediocre at best.We really didn't have an enforcer the last season but did pretty well (until playoffs, which may be taken care of with coaching)

03/04 we had McCarty, Hatcher, Thomas, Bootland..yes at different times but that team is tougher than this one. Stop saying that you're looking for a guy who can fight and play, those guys are already signed and are making millions of dollars already. Everyone over rates the effect of the new rules, if it's for certain that enforcers will be lost, why is it every team in the league is carrying at least 2? Look at Calgary, they went to the finals with Oliwa and Simon (Who played on the first line) and Tampa had Roy and Dingman. You still haven't acknowledged how teams that have BOTH finesse and toughness are the teams that go far in the playoffs. Except for Detroit in 2002 (Which had world class goaltending, and exclude McCarty) NO TEAM has made it to the finals or won a cup without toughness and ONE Enforcer. And you're ignorant statement that I want a team of goons doesn't hold up, because I never, ever said that....point out where I said our team should be replaced by goons? You can't, proving that you have to stretch to back up your argument. Scotty Bowman agrees with us, Holland even agrees with us, and you haven't even addressed a GM like Lou Lamoriello has a few tough players. Your argument is weak, and the coaches and GM on the Wings have admitted they need one.

#20 Barnes52

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE (archemedes @ October 2, 2005 - 04:39PM)
I'm saying don't add a guy to do nothing but fight that is not hockey that's what children want.you add a multi dimensional player (Like what Howe was) The keep saying they are going to start calling the rules (they haven't, but shouldn't the coaches prepare as if they will?)There aren't many players who fit the role, but to add a detriment to the lineup to fill a role that really isn't that important (you'd think everyone currently on the roster was made of glass the way you guys talk)you guys keep talking like Holland doesn't know what he's doing, but he's built one of the top franchises in the league from garbage (the team was worse than Washington is before Ilitch bought them)I wonder if you guys will ever be happy with team management

Holland did not build this team.....You know nothing! Jimmy Devellano built this team, and Scotty Bowman after him, Holland was GM in 1998, and the foundation was laready built. When Ilitch forst bought the team, Holland was a minor league goalie in Adirondack, learn the facts before you try to put words in our mouths. Holland DID NOT build this team dry.gif





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