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Brad Ference?


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#21 BeeRYCE

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 06:19 PM

QUOTE (theman19 @ October 2, 2005 - 06:19PM)
QUOTE (BeeRYCE @ October 2, 2005 - 04:50PM)
QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ October 2, 2005 - 03:34PM)

  So who is?

Best offensive defensemen are Gonchar and Niedermeyer, quite easily. Best of this era is Leetch.

Best ever.. Well, you know who.

best of this era is paul coffey as he has more than enough stats to warrent it.

Paul Coffey isn't THIS era. This era is late 90's/00's.. Well that's the era I was referring to.

#22 archemedes

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 09:04 PM

QUOTE (Barnes52 @ October 2, 2005 - 06:01PM)
Holland did not build this team.....You know nothing! Jimmy Devellano built this team, and Scotty Bowman after him, Holland was GM in 1998, and the foundation was laready built. When Ilitch forst bought the team, Holland was a minor league goalie in Adirondack, learn the facts before you try to put words in our mouths. Holland DID NOT build this team dry.gif

sorry I made an error, my point is the team much better now than they were.You want the first guy with size, there are guys who may be available (a good gm can find them)so when they get someone what will be your complaint (you seem to be the type I have worked around my whole life who have to complain about the wings for some reason)

#23 Barnes52

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 10:21 PM

QUOTE (archemedes @ October 2, 2005 - 10:04PM)
sorry I made an error, my point is the team much better now than they were.You want the first guy with size, there are guys who may be available (a good gm can find them)so when they get someone what will be your complaint (you seem to be the type I have worked around my whole life who have to complain about the wings for some reason)

Much better now then when? You think this team is better? There were many guys who were available with size that also had some skill, Holland chose to chase and overpay his own UFA's instead of going after those guys. There may be some interesting names available at the waiver wire, we'll see what that brings us

#24 theman19

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 05:18 PM

QUOTE (BeeRYCE @ October 2, 2005 - 07:19PM)
QUOTE (theman19 @ October 2, 2005 - 06:19PM)
QUOTE (BeeRYCE @ October 2, 2005 - 04:50PM)
QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ October 2, 2005 - 03:34PM)

  So who is?

Best offensive defensemen are Gonchar and Niedermeyer, quite easily. Best of this era is Leetch.

Best ever.. Well, you know who.

best of this era is paul coffey as he has more than enough stats to warrent it.

Paul Coffey isn't THIS era. This era is late 90's/00's.. Well that's the era I was referring to.

starting with the 98 season
i've heard gonchar and leetch as the best of the OD-men

gonchar
1997-1998 Capitals 72 5 16 21 2 66 2 0 0 0 134 3.7
1998-1999 Capitals 53 21 10 31 1 57 13 1 3 0 180 11.7
1999-2000 Capitals 73 18 36 54 26 52 5 0 3 0 181 9.9
2000-2001 Capitals 76 19 38 57 12 70 8 0 2 0 241 7.9
2001-2002 Capitals 76 26 33 59 -1 58 7 0 2 0 216 12
2002-2003 Capitals 82 18 49 67 13 52 7 0 2 1 224 8
2003-2004 Capitals 56 7 42 49 -20 44 4 0 0 1 127 5.5
2003-2004 Bruins 15 4 5 9 6 12 2 0 0 0 34 11.8


leetch

1997-1998 Rangers 76 17 33 50 -36 32 11 0 2 2 230 7.4
1998-1999 Rangers 82 13 42 55 -7 42 4 0 1 0 184 7.1
1999-2000 Rangers 50 7 19 26 -16 20 3 0 2 1 124 5.6
2000-2001 Rangers 82 21 58 79 -18 34 10 1 3 1 241 8.7
2001-2002 Rangers 82 10 45 55 14 28 1 0 3 0 202 5
2002-2003 Rangers 51 12 18 30 -3 20 5 0 2 1 150 8
2003-2004 Rangers 57 13 23 36 -5 24 4 1 1 0 165 7.9
2003-2004 Maple Leafs 15 2 13 15 11 10 1 0 1 0 41 4.9

now lets compare those two to our very own nick lidstrom

lids
1997-1998 Red Wings 80 17 42 59 22 18 7 1 1 1 205 8.3
1998-1999 Red Wings 81 14 43 57 14 14 6 2 3 0 205 6.8
1999-2000 Red Wings 81 20 53 73 19 18 9 4 3 0 218 9.2
2000-2001 Red Wings 82 15 56 71 9 18 8 0 0 0 272 5.5
2001-2002 Red Wings 78 9 50 59 13 20 6 0 0 0 215 4.2
2002-2003 Red Wings 82 18 44 62 40 38 8 1 4 0 175 10.3
2003-2004 Red Wings 81 10 28 38 19 18 3 1 3 1 194 5.2

as you can see in the late 90s-20 lids has out preformed both of these guys in almost every catagory.

Edited by theman19, 03 October 2005 - 05:18 PM.


#25 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 09:47 PM

Who cares? We all know Orr is the best. tongue.gif
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#26 archemedes

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 10:27 PM

QUOTE (Barnes52 @ October 2, 2005 - 10:21PM)
Much better now then when? You think this team is better? There were many guys who were available with size that also had some skill, Holland chose to chase and overpay his own UFA's instead of going after those guys. There may be some interesting names available at the waiver wire, we'll see what that brings us

they are a million times better than when I started really watching (about '79)

#27 theman19

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 10:38 PM

QUOTE (Heroes of Hockeytown @ October 3, 2005 - 10:47PM)
Who cares? We all know Orr is the best. tongue.gif

yes we do, and paul coffey is number two. What where talking about is this area 98-

#28 eva unit zero

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 12:35 AM

QUOTE (BeeRYCE @ October 2, 2005 - 02:57PM)
QUOTE (ToddDaGod @ October 2, 2005 - 02:50PM)

  Well, we have Lidstrom and Schneider, 2 of the best offensive d-men in the NHL.

Wrong.

Leech, Niedermeyer, Tarnstrom, Gonchar, Berard, Pronger, Zidlicky, Zubov... Just to name a few. I would consider Schneider a 2 way defenseman, and Lidstrom's definately defense. Yeah, 2 of the best offensive defenseman, if you want to add 15 other defenseman to the table.

Schneider ranked 6th and 10th in defense scoring the past two years, scoring 50 and 46, and has averaged 45 points per 82-game season over his career and has been hitting that mark (.55 points per game) almost every year for over a decade...Lidstrom has been among the leaders almost every year of his career. Lidstrom has averaged around 60 points per 82-game season.

Brian Leetch has averaged in the 70s...but since 97 his average has been 57, compared to Schneider's post-97 average of 44. Leetch has also been the sole offensive defenseman on the Rangers, except for a two-year period in which both Leetch and Schneider played there--both players' numbers suffered greatly. Schneider got second-unit time in New York, while Leetch was with the first unit. In Toronto, Mats Sundin was the only productive forward; Mike Johnson was second in team scoring with 47 points. In Los Angeles, Schneider shared PP time with Lubomir Visnovsky and Jaroslav Modry, and often ended up on the second unit because of their chemistry.

Sergei Gonchar has averaged 52 points per 82 game season. Lidstrom's post-97 average is 61, Gonchar's is 55.

I fail to see how Schneider is somehow not a capable offensive defenseman at all, and Lidstrom is a 'defensive defenseman' yet Gonchar and Leetch are 'the best' offensively.

Since 1997 (82-game average):
Lidstrom 61pt
Leetch 57pt
Gonchar 55pt
Schneider 44pt

Since 1997 (average GP, 7-season average)
Lidstrom 81 GP, 60pt
Leetch 71 GP, 49 pt
Gonchar 72 GP, 48pt
Schneider 74 GP, 40pt

Not much difference between the last three..especially considering Leetch and Gonchar always got the bulk of PP time on their team. But "defensive defenseman" Lidstrom is FAR ahead...yet he is not the best offensively as well?
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#29 MacK_Attack

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 11:17 AM

Ference has been placed on waivers.

#30 Barnes52

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 11:37 AM

Cool..can't wait till Holland ignores him and he gets picked up by another team as a 5th or 6th guy, then regret it when he realizes Lebda is as bad as we all thought he was.... sly.gif

#31 theman19

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE (Barnes52 @ October 4, 2005 - 12:37PM)
Cool..can't wait till Holland ignores him and he gets picked up by another team as a 5th or 6th guy, then regret it when he realizes Lebda is as bad as we all thought he was.... sly.gif

seriously, just once do something smart and pick this guy up. We have room lebda is garbage make the sign.





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