Prospect blue-liners

[TNBT 3]

Ahoy there fellow Wings fans.

I've been reading up on the prospect defensemen that we have, and I must say that I'm pretty impressed. Even now that Kronwall has graduated to the big leagues, we still have some quality guys in the system.

The main guys I've been looking at are Quincey, Blatak, Meech, Kolasau, Kindl, and our three late picks in the recent draft (May, Stamler and Mielonen).

Can someone with a bit more knowledge on the matter can give me a bit of report on how those 8 guys are doing and an idea of how good they are likely to end up?

I'm particularly interested in the first 5 guys, but May, Stamler and Mielonen are unknown quantities to me, so I thought I'd put their names in there too.

[TimeBinder 28]

Redwingscentral.com has the oct 10th prospect report out-gives stats too.

[eva unit zero 271]

Jakub Kindl

Kindl has it all. Size and strength, shot, puck skills, defensive ability, speed. He is especially effective as a power play quarterback, using his offensive ability and skating to control the play from the point. Needs to work on his physical game, but that will come with more confidence as the season progresses in Kitchener. Projection: Eric Brewer

Kyle Quincey

Quincey is a good skater with a hard shot from the point. He is sound positionally and reads the play well at both ends. Quincey is a tireless worker and will stick up for his teammates. But despite showing offensive capability in juniors, he is expected to a primarily defensive defenseman in the NHL who won't be a liability in the offensive end. Projection: Kyle McLaren

Miro Blatak

Blatak is a strong positional player with excellent puck skills. He is a good skater, excellent playmaker, and has good hockey sense. His hard shot and knowledge of when and when not to join the rush is also an asset. Blatak, however, plays a mostly finesse game despite his size (6-1, 190) and needs to add muscle if he is going to handle the bigger forwards in the NHL. Projection: Frantisek Kaberle

Derek Meech

Meech is an offensively skilled defenseman with a good shot who worked his way into the top four in Grand Rapids as a rookie. He makes smart decisions at both ends of the ice and can read the play well. He is small, however, and does not play a terribly physical game. He needs to ultilize the skills he does have if he wants to reach his potential. Projection: Bret Hedican

Siarhei Kolasau

Kolasau is a big, physical stay-at-home defenseman. He does not have good offensive instincts. He has a strong but inaccurate shot and is a god crease-clearer. Projection: Rhett Warrener

[TNBT 3]

Thanks eva, that was the sort of thing I was looking for.

Just wondering though, where do you see these guys ending up with the Wings? Pretty much all of the guys you listed as projections are classed as top 4 defensemen by TSN, but there is (obviously) only 4 top 4 spots available on any one team, and we are talking about 5 prospects here plus we also have Kronwall, Lebda and Fischer to think about as well.

I was just trying to do some working out in my head, and for the future defensive pairings I came up with something like this:

1st pairing - Kronwall - Fischer/Quincey

Kronwall is going to be awesome, provided he doesn't suffer some sort of horrific leg injury every time he steps on the ice. He can and does play physical, but I think it would be best to pair him with a bigger, more stay-at-home defensemen so that we can make full use of Kronwall's attacking skills. If Fischer pans out as we all hope he will, then I would suggest using him here. If not, then maybe Quincey will pass him and take his 1st pairing spot.

2nd pairing - Kindl - Fischer/Quincey

As with Kronwall, Kindl can play physical and I expect that as he gets more experience and gets used to the American style of hockey his confidence will increase and we will see him get a bit more physical. However, he also has the same offensive talents that Kronwall has, so as with the 1st pairing, I would put him with a bigger defensemen so that Kindl is free to join the rush more often and can make use of his offensive abilities. Obviously whichever one of Fischer and Quincey that isn't in the 1st pairing will be in this pairing.

3rd pairing - Lebda - Blatak/May

This was a bit harder to work out than the other pairings. If Lebda continues to improve like he has so far, it will be hard to keep him out of the team. It would be good to be able to pair him with a bigger and more physical defensemen, so I considered Kolasau, but he is too much of an unknown quantity at this point. He is still a project of sorts so until we start to see how he is going to end up, I couldn't put him in my lineup. I don't mind Meech, but I hate the idea of having two little defensemen on the ice at the same time, and I think of the two of them, Lebda will be better, so I kept him. That leaves me with Blatak, who has the size to make up for Lebda's smallness. We just have to hope that Babcock and the guys can beat a bit of toughness into him. As much as I like Blatak and his skills, if he wont play physical we wmay need to swap him with someone who will, so assuming May continues to develop his physical game as he and his body matures, he may get a chance here.

Reserves - Kolasau, Meech, May/Blatak, Mielonen, Stamler.

This is only based on the prospects we have now and how they are expected to turn out. Obviously trades, free-agent signings (both us signing other players and our players signing with other teams) and future draft picks will all have an effect on the future makeup of our defensive squad.

[eva unit zero 271]

Taking away all of our 'experienced veterans' I'll start with a 7-man unit

Fischer

Kronwall

Kindl

Blatak

Quincey

Kolasau

Meech

Fischer right now is the best of the group, third best defenseman in the organization, and the only one who has shown he can handle ful-time NHL duty. And he's done it for five years, and has been getting 20+ minutes and was stellar during a Cup run.

Kronwall is more talented offensively and is responsible defensively, physically aggressive, and a good skater. Both of these guys have the potential to be perennial all-stars or perhaps even win a Norris or two down the line.

Kindl is a fresh draftee, but if he really puts it together he could be a star defenseman as well, maybe even the best of this bunch. One description of him calls him a more offense-oriented Fischer.

Blatak should develop into a solid contributor who will get PP time and the occasional PK shift. He should become the kind of guy who is a solid, consistent contributor, neither a star nor a goat except on the rare good or bad night.

Quincey is only going to see limited PP time and despite a good skill set will spend most of his special teams play on the PK.

Kolasau is another guy who won't see PP time, but likely gets a good amount of PK time, using his size and strength to 'inform' the Holmstrom-types around the league that they are being evicted.

Meech is the least defensively capable of the seven, but he has plenty of tools. When he does manage to get into the lineup, he will probably get some PP time so Fischer, Kronwall, Kindl, Blatak can take a rest.

I left Lebda out of the top seven and here's why:

Next year, Schneider, Fischer, Kronwall still around. Lidstrom possibly. That's our top four. Lilja may be resigned, Quincey, Meech, and Blatak all may be ready for a spot. Dmitri Bykov could potentially be resigned as well. after a year in Grand Rapids where he was unimpressive, then making the roster due only to injury at the end of the preseason (Lebda was to be the final cut, but Kronwall got injured) it's unlikely he'll beat out better defensemen for next year's roster.

As for pairings:

Fischer/Kindl--two 'total package' defensemen to start the defense corps.

Kolasau/Kronwall--Kolasau's skill and attitude allows Kronwall offensive freedom.

Blatak/Quincey--Quincey's defense and puck skills works with Blatak's game.

Meech--Some extra offense to plug into the lineup.

I think this is a very solid group of young defensemen. It's more likely than not one or two of them gets traded (Probably one or two of Blatak/Quincey/Meech/Lebda) as it will be a few years before our lineup consists entirely of these guys. You never know though...if Kindl gets back to his game and Meech and Quincey continue solid progression, we could see most of these guys next season.

[eva unit zero 271]

However, he also has the same offensive talents that Kronwall has, so as with the 1st pairing, I would put him with a bigger defensemen so that Kindl is free to join the rush more often and can make use of his offensive abilities.

You do know that the only defenseman we have bigger than Kindl is Fischer, right?

Kolasau is close, we have a couple others near that range.

[juice71285 2]

I was wondering if any of you guys think there is a chance that Detroit might sign Alexander Seluyanov next year. He is the same as Grigorenko where his rights are up, but it seems like he is borderlined of possibly being signed.

[snapshots 0]

Jakub Kindl

Kindl has it all. Size and strength, shot, puck skills, defensive ability, speed. He is especially effective as a power play quarterback, using his offensive ability and skating to control the play from the point. Needs to work on his physical game, but that will come with more confidence as the season progresses in Kitchener. Projection: Eric Brewer

Kyle Quincey

Quincey is a good skater with a hard shot from the point. He is sound positionally and reads the play well at both ends. Quincey is a tireless worker and will stick up for his teammates. But despite showing offensive capability in juniors, he is expected to a primarily defensive defenseman in the NHL who won't be a liability in the offensive end. Projection: Kyle McLaren

Miro Blatak

Blatak is a strong positional player with excellent puck skills. He is a good skater, excellent playmaker, and has good hockey sense. His hard shot and knowledge of when and when not to join the rush is also an asset. Blatak, however, plays a mostly finesse game despite his size (6-1, 190) and needs to add muscle if he is going to handle the bigger forwards in the NHL. Projection: Frantisek Kaberle

Derek Meech

Meech is an offensively skilled defenseman with a good shot who worked his way into the top four in Grand Rapids as a rookie. He makes smart decisions at both ends of the ice and can read the play well. He is small, however, and does not play a terribly physical game. He needs to ultilize the skills he does have if he wants to reach his potential. Projection: Bret Hedican

Siarhei Kolasau

Kolasau is a big, physical stay-at-home defenseman. He does not have good offensive instincts. He has a strong but inaccurate shot and is a god crease-clearer. Projection: Rhett Warrener

Uh. No.

Not even close. You've vastly overrated these guys. I mean, if you're talking about playing style, maybe. But no defenseman on this team projects to be anywhere near as good as Brewer or McLaren.

Kindl: Kindl thinks himself as an offensive defenseman. His stats don't agree.

Way to early to say, but he's not ANYWHERE near Eric Brewer potential.

Quincey: Think Steve Chaisson. Solid, second pairing defenseman if he pans out. Might not though. Might not ever stick in the NHL. He's NOT a sure thing.

Miro Blatak: Think Dmitry Bykov. Could make it as a 5-6 D-man and maybe see some second PP unit time. Maybe. Time is running out on him as a Wings prospect.

Meech: He'll be lucky to make the NHL. The new rules sure help him. But still. His defensive game leaves A LOT to be desired. And his supposed strength, his offense, hasn't really been evident yet in the AHL. He NEEDS to produce this year.

Kolosau: IMO, he's a potential gem. He loves to hit. He's big and strong. But he has virtually NO offensive skills whatsoever. His skating isn't real bad. But considering the direction this league is going, he might have a tough time ever making the NHL.

[snapshots 0]

I was wondering if any of you guys think there is a chance that Detroit might sign Alexander Seluyanov next year. He is the same as Grigorenko where his rights are up, but it seems like he is borderlined of possibly being signed.

Seluyanov is a guy who I thought was a darkhorse. Great skills. But he's apparently got attitude problems.

It's doubtful he'll ever be signed.

I still have some hope for Jonathon Ericsson.

[eva unit zero 271]

Jakub Kindl

Kindl has it all. Size and strength, shot, puck skills, defensive ability, speed. He is especially effective as a power play quarterback, using his offensive ability and skating to control the play from the point. Needs to work on his physical game, but that will come with more confidence as the season progresses in Kitchener. Projection: Eric Brewer

Kyle Quincey

Quincey is a good skater with a hard shot from the point. He is sound positionally and reads the play well at both ends. Quincey is a tireless worker and will stick up for his teammates. But despite showing offensive capability in juniors, he is expected to a primarily defensive defenseman in the NHL who won't be a liability in the offensive end. Projection: Kyle McLaren

Miro Blatak

Blatak is a strong positional player with excellent puck skills. He is a good skater, excellent playmaker, and has good hockey sense. His hard shot and knowledge of when and when not to join the rush is also an asset. Blatak, however, plays a mostly finesse game despite his size (6-1, 190) and needs to add muscle if he is going to handle the bigger forwards in the NHL. Projection: Frantisek Kaberle

Derek Meech

Meech is an offensively skilled defenseman with a good shot who worked his way into the top four in Grand Rapids as a rookie. He makes smart decisions at both ends of the ice and can read the play well. He is small, however, and does not play a terribly physical game. He needs to ultilize the skills he does have if he wants to reach his potential. Projection: Bret Hedican

Siarhei Kolasau

Kolasau is a big, physical stay-at-home defenseman. He does not have good offensive instincts. He has a strong but inaccurate shot and is a god crease-clearer. Projection: Rhett Warrener

Uh. No.

Not even close. You've vastly overrated these guys. I mean, if you're talking about playing style, maybe. But no defenseman on this team projects to be anywhere near as good as Brewer or McLaren.

Kindl: Kindl thinks himself as an offensive defenseman. His stats don't agree.

Way to early to say, but he's not ANYWHERE near Eric Brewer potential.

Quincey: Think Steve Chaisson. Solid, second pairing defenseman if he pans out. Might not though. Might not ever stick in the NHL. He's NOT a sure thing.

Miro Blatak: Think Dmitry Bykov. Could make it as a 5-6 D-man and maybe see some second PP unit time. Maybe. Time is running out on him as a Wings prospect.

Meech: He'll be lucky to make the NHL. The new rules sure help him. But still. His defensive game leaves A LOT to be desired. And his supposed strength, his offense, hasn't really been evident yet in the AHL. He NEEDS to produce this year.

Kolosau: IMO, he's a potential gem. He loves to hit. He's big and strong. But he has virtually NO offensive skills whatsoever. His skating isn't real bad. But considering the direction this league is going, he might have a tough time ever making the NHL.

I actually had thought Chiasson for Quincey, but I decided to instead go with all current players for the comparisons.

I don't think the Brewer comparison is far off for Kindl. Brewer is 26 and is only now attaining legitimate 'top-two' status around the NHL (meaning he is top 60 overall) Brewer will obviously get better, but Kindl will easily get into that group. Even hockeysfuture, notorious for underranking Wings prospects (Zetterberg as a career third liner, Datsyuk as a fourth liner are some of their past rankings) has Kindl, Quincey, and Blatak all reaching the 'top-three' defenseman position, and Kolasau making the no. 5-6 spot, with Meech as a no.7 pushing for a no.6 spot. Want me to give you another guy who more closely matches those potential outlooks, with any minor adjustments I might see?

Kindl=Brewer

Quincey=D.Markov

Blatak=F.Kaberle

Kolasau=Warrener

Meech=Robidas

That better?

EDIT: BTW...Chiasson was an all-star and is one of the better defensemen in Detroit history. Quincey won't be.

Edited October 12, 2005 by eva unit zero

[eva unit zero 271]

I was wondering if any of you guys think there is a chance that Detroit might sign Alexander Seluyanov next year. He is the same as Grigorenko where his rights are up, but it seems like he is borderlined of possibly being signed.

I would love to get Seluyanov over...he has a TON of skill and might have more potential than any of the guys listed here so far.

That said, his aforementioned attitude problem could prevent him from ever signing. It's been a question since shortly after he was drafted if he would ever actually cross the Atlantic.

[juice71285 2]

Thanks for the info on Seluyanov. He was one of them that I was really hoping that could make an impact in the NHL. It seemed like from what I have read that he has had a ton of potential just never really wanted to utilize it.

I would really like to Blatak get signed by the Wings after this year.

I agree that Ericsson could become a future Wing. I think he still adjusting though from being a center to a defenseman.

What about Petrasek. I know he is 29 now and it seems that RWC doesn't think to highly of him, but I notice he puts up good numbers each year. In 7 games he has 4 pts., 6 PIM, and is +2, the pts. are tied for seventh in the league. He might not be a great player, but could possibly be used as a 6th or 7th d-man that could occasionally chip in a point here or there.

I know Blom has little chance to make it.

Backstrom and Berggren both seem to be interesting prospects though. Maybe not top four players, but possibilities at getting a contract. Berggren would more likely get a contract in my opinion.

Edited October 12, 2005 by juice71285

[eva unit zero 271]

Thanks for the info on Seluyanov. He was one of them that I was really hoping that could make an impact in the NHL. It seemed like from what I have read that he has had a ton of potential just never really wanted to utilize it.

I would really like to Blatak get signed by the Wings after this year.

I agree that Ericsson could become a future Wing. I think he still adjusting though from being a center to a defenseman.

What about Petrasek. I know he is 29 now and it seems that RWC doesn't think to highly of him, but I notice he puts up good numbers each year. In 7 games he has 4 pts., 6 PIM, and is +2, the pts. are tied for seventh in the league. He might not be a great player, but could possibly be used as a 6th or 7th d-man that could occasionally chip in a point here or there.

I know Blom has little chance to make it.

Backstrom and Berggren both seem to be interesting prospects though. Maybe not top four players, but possibilities at getting a contract. Berggren would more likely get a contract in my opinion.

Ericsson is definitely one I would like to see signed, but I don't know whether he'd end up playing forward or defense. He stayed with the defense position at the request of Hakan Andersson, but might switch back if asked to by the Wings organization, as he has played both for years now.

Petrasek is a little old to call a prospect, and it's looking like he'll finish his career in Sweden. While it's possible, I don't see the Wings signing him when they could give the spot to a guy like Quincey or Blatak who is younger and has much more upside. Or alternatively, picking up a guy around the same age who has some NHL experience, much like they did with Rivers and Lilja.

The others fall into the category of 'long term project.'

Backstrom has far and away the best chance of making it to the Wings; he's already the best player of the three and he's the youngest. Blom is languishing in the third tier league, and Berggren is struggling just to earn a spot in the top league. It's unlikely however than any of them make it to the Wings in any permanent capacity.

[TNBT 3]

You do know that the only defenseman we have bigger than Kindl is Fischer, right?

Kolasau is close, we have a couple others near that range.

Yeah, I know that Kindl is pretty big.

I didn't mean "bigger defensemen" as in bigger than Kindl specifically, more a defensemen who would be considered to be on the bigger side in general. Like how Meech or Lebda would be considered to be a smaller defensemen, and guys like Fischer and Pronger would be considered to be bigger defensemen.

So I was just saying that I would play a big defensemen with Kindl so that Kindl could play a more attacking style and join the rush more often, rather than having Kindl as the biggest blue-liner on the ice meaning that we need him to stay back more so that we don't end up in sh*t if we turn the puck over.

[TNBT 3]

Seluyanov is a guy who I thought was a darkhorse. Great skills. But he's apparently got attitude problems.

It's doubtful he'll ever be signed.

I still have some hope for Jonathon Ericsson.

I like what I read about Ericsson, but the main problem I see is that he is 21 years-old now but Red Wings Central says that he is AT LEAST 5 years away from panning out. So by the time he would really be ready to contribute with us he would be like 26 or 27. How could ANYONE take that long to develop?

As for Seluyanov, he's very talented and I think if he comes over with the right attitude I think he could be a valuable contributor for us. He is only 23 so if we bring him over next year and let him develop, he could be in the rotation for us by the time he is 24 or 25. His main flaws seem to be his attitude and the fact that he is a risk-taker on the ice. Both of those traits can be "fixed" by working with a no-nonsense coach like Babcock who will make sure that he knows that if he wants to see minutes on the Wings he will have to step it up.

It looks like both he and Ericsson may be late bloomers as far as their Wings careers are concerned, but if both of them can step up and perform as well for us as we all hope, then it would be a case of better late than never.

[snapshots 0]

Seluyanov is a guy who I thought was a darkhorse. Great skills. But he's apparently got attitude problems.

It's doubtful he'll ever be signed.

I still have some hope for Jonathon Ericsson.

I like what I read about Ericsson, but the main problem I see is that he is 21 years-old now but Red Wings Central says that he is AT LEAST 5 years away from panning out. So by the time he would really be ready to contribute with us he would be like 26 or 27. How could ANYONE take that long to develop?

As for Seluyanov, he's very talented and I think if he comes over with the right attitude I think he could be a valuable contributor for us. He is only 23 so if we bring him over next year and let him develop, he could be in the rotation for us by the time he is 24 or 25. His main flaws seem to be his attitude and the fact that he is a risk-taker on the ice. Both of those traits can be "fixed" by working with a no-nonsense coach like Babcock who will make sure that he knows that if he wants to see minutes on the Wings he will have to step it up.

It looks like both he and Ericsson may be late bloomers as far as their Wings careers are concerned, but if both of them can step up and perform as well for us as we all hope, then it would be a case of better late than never.

RWC says he's five years away?

Maybe the report is a bit on the old side.

Because I think the Wings lose his rights after next season, along with a dozen other prospects.

He'll be competing with a lot of guys for a contract. Including all Europeans and CHLers drafted this past year. So he's got to step up. Soon.

Long term prospects from Europe are going to be a thing of the past.

Anyway, a lot depends on this season

[TNBT 3]

Yeah, what's the deal with the whole European prospect thing?

I know that we now have to sign them within a certain time frame, but once we sign them can we leave them in Europe if they are not ready to play in the AHL or NHL yet? If we can, then why can't Illitch just sign all of our prospects and let them stay in Europe until they are ready, just like it would have been under the old rules?

[snapshots 0]

Yeah, what's the deal with the whole European prospect thing?

I know that we now have to sign them within a certain time frame, but once we sign them can we leave them in Europe if they are not ready to play in the AHL or NHL yet? If we can, then why can't Illitch just sign all of our prospects and let them stay in Europe until they are ready, just like it would have been under the old rules?

Good question.

Illitch would have no problem paying players to stay in Europe. I have no idea if it would count against the cap or not. AHLers don't, so why would Europeans count against the cap.

I'm not sure. We'll find out more in coming months I'm sure.

[TNBT 3]

Yeah, if it doesn't count against the cap, then we should just sign all of our prospects (or at least the half-decent ones) and let them stay in Europe. Illitch has the money to do so, and he seems to care enough about the Wings to be willing to pay players who aren't on the Wings roster.

The point about the AHL is interesting. It would appear that only players who play in the NHL have their contracts counted against the cap, so we could probably sign a bunch of prospects and leave them in Europe without it counting against our cap.

The NHL tried to restrict the richer owners from using their extra money over the poorer ones, and the salary cap has done that. I guess this whole prospect thing could be somewhat of a loop-hole where Illitch and guys like him can still use their financial situation to advantage.