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Hudler vs. Filppula


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#1 TNBT

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 07:47 AM

It seems that on these boards we have quite a few staunch Hudler supporters, and quite a few Filppula supporters. Now I'm sure that there are plenty of people who are fans of both of them (like myself), but in the interests of a little healthy competition, I thought I'd get people to rate them and suggest where they see each of them going in the future.

As far as I'm concerned:

HUDLER - I'm a big fan of this guy and have been since we drafted him. He just has some amazing puck skills, and for all of his doubters I think that he can and will make it at the NHL level. As far as his future with the team is concerned, I can see him making a solid right wing on the 2nd line. He's not too solid on faceoffs, so I'd be hesitant to play him too much at the center spot, even though that is his natural position. Also, given the left wing lock system, I would be hesitant to play him on the left side, given that he isn't a really good defensive player and he's pretty small. So I would see his future, with the Wings at least, as a right winger who could see some minutes at center, and definatley on a scoring line. He doesn't have the size, strength or game to play as a Grind Line or 4th line player. As long as he has a big center and/or left winger on his line, he will be fine.

FILPPULA - Although I like both of these guys, Filppula is my favourite of the two. He, like Hudler, is a natural center, so I think I would play him there. He's a bit bigger and stronger than Hudler, and is a more solid defensive player, so I wouldn't hesitate to give him the center spot on a scoring line. With Datsyuk and Zetterberg around for the long haul (well, Zetterberg at least), I know it will be hard to get 1st line minutes on the Wings but I think Filppula could become a top line center.

#2 Barnes52

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 08:08 AM

Agreed, if Filipula pans out like they think he can, trade Hudler. Why? Because he might be able to fetch us some decent picks or prospects and with his size, he might not ever be able to be effective night in and night out. He's also prone to take shifts and whole games off and in order to be successful in this league he'd need to play with big physical wingers. Filppula is bigger (slightly) but seems to give a great effort each night and seems to be more of a Babcock type of guy

#3 TNBT

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 08:41 AM

I'd love to see both of them spend their careers as Wings, but if one had to go I would move Hudler.

He's so talented that he should be a permenant member of the Wings team right now. I know we have had a policy of playing veterans recently, but if Hudler had really busted his ass since he has been here, he would have made it impossible for the Wings NOT to give him a spot in the team, much like what Lebda did in training camp this year.

I'm just really unsure about his approach to the game. He has boatloads of talent, but the worst part is that he knows it. He doesn't really work much on defense, and he isn't a really accurate shooter. We don't need a guy who is there to showboat in the attacking zone and then wait for his team-mates to get the puck again. We also don't need someone who only shows up when he feels like it, and Mike Babcock knows this. That was one of my favourite things about this years camp. Babcock sees that Hudler has buckets of talent, but that he doesn't always give his all and needs to improve his effort, and he called him out on that. I may be wrong, but I can't remember any of his other coaches (since he has been in the US) calling him out on the need to show up EVERY night. Babcock believes in Hudler's talent and is going to give him a chance, but he knows that if he is going to be a useful player he will need to be committed and play hard every night. It's great to see Babcock calling him out on that and kind of issuing Hudler with the challenge of proving him wrong and earning his place on the team.

Plenty of people here have been calling for Hudler to be put into the lineup straight away as part of a youth movement, but that would be the worst thing we could do for him. To just give him a spot on the team now for the sake of adding youth when he didn't earn it in camp would be a big mistake. He played well SOME of the time in camp but he was inconsistent as always and didn't show up all the time. If he is going to be a good player for us on the Wings team, he will have to put in consistent effort, and if he isn't forced to put in consistent effort in order to win his spot on the roster, what hope do we have of him putting in consistent effort with the Wings?

Also, as for the size difference, it isn't a huge gap but it is big enough to be important. Two inches isn't a big deal when you're talking about a couple of guys around 6 foot, but when you're talking about one of the players being 5'9" then every inch counts.

#4 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 09:11 AM

Despite showing some progress this season I still don't think Hudler will make it to the NHL fulltime. Filppula however will.
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#5 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 09:15 AM

QUOTE (TNBT @ October 11, 2005 - 09:41AM)
Plenty of people here have been calling for Hudler to be put into the lineup straight away as part of a youth movement, but that would be the worst thing we could do for him. To just give him a spot on the team now for the sake of adding youth when he didn't earn it in camp would be a big mistake. He played well SOME of the time in camp but he was inconsistent as always and didn't show up all the time.


If they rewarded Jiri Hudler with a spot on the Wings, I am positive he would be producing. He would realise he’s been given a tremendous opportunity to succeed at the highest level and would take full advantage of it. It would not have been a huge mistake to give him a spot; in fact it was a mistake leaving him off the team.

Ken Holland: Hes (Mursak) a young guy, provides energy, can skate, hes a puck hound.


#6 TNBT

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 09:19 AM

QUOTE (RyanBarnes! @ October 11, 2005 - 10:11AM)
Despite showing some progress this season I still don't think Hudler will make it to the NHL fulltime. Filppula however will.

Filppula will definatley be a full-time NHL player. As for Hudler, he wont be if he continues to play the same inconsistent hockey that he has in the past. If he steps up to Coach Babcock's challenge and brings it every night and changes his attitude to the game, then I think he could make it.

The main problem for Hudler though is that he's small, somewhat slow and he's not a natural defensive player at all, so he can't really be an effective player on the 3rd or 4th line, so if he is going to be a full-time player he has to step it up enough to be able to play on one of the top two lines, meaning that he will have to be pretty damn good.

#7 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 09:41 AM

Hudler is only 21 years-old, and has proved that he can handle top notch competition as he did in the Czech league. Give him time and I am extremely confident that he will be a successful player for Detroit. I am sick of people putting his name up for trade. Why trade away someone young with enormous potential?

Ken Holland: Hes (Mursak) a young guy, provides energy, can skate, hes a puck hound.


#8 TNBT

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:03 AM

QUOTE (Aussie_Wing @ October 11, 2005 - 10:41AM)
Hudler is only 21 years-old, and has proved that he can handle top notch competition as he did in the Czech league. Give him time and I am extremely confident that he will be a successful player for Detroit. I am sick of people putting his name up for trade. Why trade away someone young with enormous potential?

Exactly.

Hudler DOES have tremendous potential.

Hudler will need TIME to put it all together and get is mind right.

That in a sense contradicts what you said in your first post. You said that he should have just been given a spot on the team now, and then in your next post you said that "he is only 21 years-old" and "give him time".

I agree with your 2nd post. He is very talented, and he is young and needing time to establish himself and prove himself worthy of a roster spot. That is why we shouldn't just hand him a spot now. In your first post you basically said that if we just hand him a roster spot he will magically start producing and playing hard every game. Sorry, but that just isn't the case. Why would he all of a sudden recognize the "tremendous opportunity" he has with the Wings when he hasn't realized the tremendous opportunity he has with Grand Rapids?

He has been blessed with a rediculous amount of talent and has had tremendous opportunities so far in his career. However, until he shows that he appreciates those opportunities (Grand Rapids) and plays hard every night, what makes you think that he will all of a sudden start playing hard given a different opportunity (the Wings)?

As talented as he is, he has to earn his spot. If we just gave every young guy we have a roster spot for the main reason that they are young, then what incentive would they have to improve their games?

So what incentive would Hudler have to improve his effort, faceoff skills and defensive game if we just go "here you go Jiri, have a roster spot over someone who has earned it"?

#9 Henkka

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:04 AM

Filppula has same size like Zetterberg and that's why I think he will pass Hudler in the future. The skillbase is quite even with them.
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#10 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:10 AM

What I am saying is that he should be on the Wings right now, however at the same time he is still young and developing. But he has reached the stage where he is putting it all together and this should be rewarded.

Ken Holland: Hes (Mursak) a young guy, provides energy, can skate, hes a puck hound.


#11 TNBT

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:18 AM

QUOTE (Aussie_Wing @ October 11, 2005 - 11:10AM)
What I am saying is that he should be on the Wings right now, however at the same time he is still young and developing. But he has reached the stage where he is putting it all together and this should be rewarded.

There is no doubt that Hudler has improved as he has gotten older. There is also no doubt that he has the skills to be an NHL player.

HOWEVER, the main knock against him has been that he is somewhat lazy in his attitude and approach to the game, and that is what he has to improve before he earns a spot on the team.

Babcock saw this and pointed it out, mentioning how he has to play like the motivated Hudler that he saw at the end of camp all the time and not just sometimes. Babcock knows that Hudler has talent. He also knows that he has to improve his effort and attitude if he is going to be the best player he can be, and that improvement wont happen if he is given a roster spot now.

Let me clarify: I want Hudler to make the team, but I want him to EARN his spot on the team. No player should be given a spot on the team when they haven't proven that they deserve it.

#12 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:29 AM

Babcock= Brown
Hudler= Milicic

It's the same situation, regardless of how hard he works, he's never going to be 'good' enough.

Ken Holland: Hes (Mursak) a young guy, provides energy, can skate, hes a puck hound.


#13 TNBT

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 11:06 AM

I get what you are trying to say, but I honestly don't think this is the same situation.

For some reason, Brown just seems to hate Milicic. That isn't the case here. Babcock has come out and challenged some of his young guys to get better and work on certain areas of their games, but he has always made sure to note that he recognizes their talent and that he thinks they can make it.

Remember what he said about Hudler? Jiri started training camp pretty poorly, and then started to put the effort in later. Babcock said something like "why don't you play like you did at the end of camp all the time"? I think that's showing that he recognizes Hudler's talent and that he likes what he sees, but he wants him to prove that he can play hard and play well consistently before he brings him up into the team. If Babcock hated Hudler, he would have just been like "no, he's not good enough" but instead he has been trying to push him and has sort of taken him under his wing like a kind of pet project.

I actually think Hudler and Babcock is quite the opposite of Milicic and Brown. Where Brown seems to just despise Milicic, Babcock seems to have really taken to Hudler more than any of the other young guys with the exception of maybe Filppula, and he seems to be intent on helping him achieve his full potential.

That's just the way I see it.

#14 eva unit zero

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 03:53 PM

Just a comment on the Milici thing..

Brown's issue was with any young players..Tayshaun was already a starter and there were no SF's even close to him on the roster. Did you notice Detroit had like 7 big men last year? With Sheed, Ben, and McDyess as the top 3, you'd think they could have found some time to get Darko in, instead of burying him.

Back on topic:

Hudler may not have been working hard at the beginning of camp, but he was also told by Holland he was almost certainly going to Grand Rapids this year--basically saying 'we don't care how good you do, you're not making it this year'

Babcock's comments caught his attention, and in the preseason he was all over the place every game.

How's he done in GR so far?
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#15 zetterbergfan40

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 04:13 PM

he got off too a great start...
1gp 2g 2a 4p i hope he plays hard and keeps up the good point totals!!!

http://ahl.leaguesta...ype=top_scorers

there next game is on wed.

#16 TNBT

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 07:32 PM

QUOTE (eva unit zero @ October 11, 2005 - 04:53PM)
Hudler may not have been working hard at the beginning of camp, but he was also told by Holland he was almost certainly going to Grand Rapids this year--basically saying 'we don't care how good you do, you're not making it this year'

Babcock's comments caught his attention, and in the preseason he was all over the place every game.

How's he done in GR so far?

Yeah, I'm sure that Holland would have had Hudler picked as a Griffin this year, but I still think that if Hudler had worked his ass of in camp and during the pre-season, and played from the very beginning like he did late in the pre-season, then he would have had Babcock on his side and he would have made it very hard for Holland to send him down.

My guess would be that Holland has seen his inconsistent game and attitude for a couple of years now, and going into camp he would have already decided that he needed another year in Grand Rapids. However, that could have changed had he shown consistency and proved that he was a new man in camp this year. I doubt that Holland doesn't think he has the skills to make it. I think the only reason Holland would have been planning on sending Hudler back would have been to make him improve his attitude and effort. If Hudler had shown during camp that he had already made those improvements, I don't see why Holland would have sent him back.

Look at Lebda as an example. He wasn't anything special in Grand Rapids last year, and I get the impression that he was basically invited to camp to make up numbers. He wasn't expected by anyone to actually make the final cuts and get a roster spot. However, he busted his ass and showed Holland, Babcock and the rest of the staff that he was ready and they gave him a spot. I don't see any reason why Hudler wouldn't have been treated the same way if he had shown that he had improved enough on the areas that he needs to work on (consistency, effort, etc.)

#17 eva unit zero

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 11:48 PM

QUOTE (TNBT @ October 11, 2005 - 08:32PM)
QUOTE (eva unit zero @ October 11, 2005 - 04:53PM)
Hudler may not have been working hard at the beginning of camp, but he was also told by Holland he was almost certainly going to Grand Rapids this year--basically saying 'we don't care how good you do, you're not making it this year'

Babcock's comments caught his attention, and in the preseason he was all over the place every game.

How's he done in GR so far?

Yeah, I'm sure that Holland would have had Hudler picked as a Griffin this year, but I still think that if Hudler had worked his ass of in camp and during the pre-season, and played from the very beginning like he did late in the pre-season, then he would have had Babcock on his side and he would have made it very hard for Holland to send him down.

My guess would be that Holland has seen his inconsistent game and attitude for a couple of years now, and going into camp he would have already decided that he needed another year in Grand Rapids. However, that could have changed had he shown consistency and proved that he was a new man in camp this year. I doubt that Holland doesn't think he has the skills to make it. I think the only reason Holland would have been planning on sending Hudler back would have been to make him improve his attitude and effort. If Hudler had shown during camp that he had already made those improvements, I don't see why Holland would have sent him back.

Look at Lebda as an example. He wasn't anything special in Grand Rapids last year, and I get the impression that he was basically invited to camp to make up numbers. He wasn't expected by anyone to actually make the final cuts and get a roster spot. However, he busted his ass and showed Holland, Babcock and the rest of the staff that he was ready and they gave him a spot. I don't see any reason why Hudler wouldn't have been treated the same way if he had shown that he had improved enough on the areas that he needs to work on (consistency, effort, etc.)

Lebda got a spot because:

They didn't feel Quincey was ready and wanted him to get ready for the Griffins season, so Lebda made the second to last cut over Quincey. Lebda stayed up at that point because they wanted to keep some extras.

Lebda made the Wings because, and ONLY because:

Niklas Kronwall was injured.

That left the team with seven defensemen on the roster at that point. They decided to find a replacement for Kronwall (Woolley) and rather than shuttle Quincey, Meech, or someone else back to Detroit, they just decided to keep Lebda on as he hadn't been sent down yet.

If Kronwall doesn't get injured, Lebda never plays a game in Detroit.
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#18 snapshots

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 02:35 AM

Everybody who is questioning Hudler's work ethic, size, and speed needs to realize that if they feel this way, so do GMs around the league.

Hudler is not going to draw much in a trade.
He's more valuable to us if he makes the teams and produces points. Then we can decide whether he should be traded or not.

But as of now, he won't bring much return.

For what it's worth, they're virtually the same age.

I think Hudler is really underrated on these boards.

I mean, in the pre-season, Hudler was miles ahead of Filppula, in terms of offensive anticipation. He was among the Wings' best players in two or three games. Filppula wasn't really that effective. But he'll improve as he gets used to the speed and style of the North American game.

Filppula is faster and not so tiny, which obviously works in his favor.

But I think Hudler's offensive instincts are pretty impressive.

#19 eva unit zero

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 03:20 AM

QUOTE (snapshots @ October 12, 2005 - 03:35AM)
Everybody who is questioning Hudler's work ethic, size, and speed needs to realize that if they feel this way, so do GMs around the league.

Hudler is not going to draw much in a trade.
He's more valuable to us if he makes the teams and produces points. Then we can decide whether he should be traded or not.

But as of now, he won't bring much return.

For what it's worth, they're virtually the same age.

I think Hudler is really underrated on these boards.

I mean, in the pre-season, Hudler was miles ahead of Filppula, in terms of offensive anticipation. He was among the Wings' best players in two or three games. Filppula wasn't really that effective. But he'll improve as he gets used to the speed and style of the North American game.

Filppula is faster and not so tiny, which obviously works in his favor.

But I think Hudler's offensive instincts are pretty impressive.

I think people on this board vastly underrated Hudler.

From watching him last year and so far this year I think he has developed to the point where he is as good as Datsyuk was in 01-02...and he's three years younger than Pavel was. Zetterberg came into the league about as good as Datsyuk did, and Hudler is about the same age as Hank was.

Filppula is the same age as Hudler, but doesn't possess the offensive ability. he is better defensively though, and quicker. He is probably a tad behind him in overall ability, but that could swing either way with a couple more years of development.

We could very well have a second 'Eurotwins' tandem of equal ability on our hands.
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#20 TNBT

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 05:28 AM

I've been thinking for a little while now that Hudler kind of reminds me a bit of Datsyuk, in that he isn't really big, and he's not overly fast, but he has amazing puck-handling skills and offensive vision.

Similarly, Filppula kind of reminds me of Zetterberg a bit, in that he is a solid offensive player as well, but is a better defensive player than Datsyuk/Hudler.

So basically, Datsyuk/Hudler are the better offensive players, Zetterberg/Filppula are solid offensivley, but are the better two-way players. So with that in mind, a second set of EuroTwins may not be out of the question at all. Add Grigorenko into that mix and we have 5 guys who can all score and create. The only thing is that we are going to need some big guys to play alongside them or they are going to get killed.





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