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#1 TNBT

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 05:42 AM

I've been browsing Red Wings Central a bit more recently, and I got to thinking about our log-jam at the goalie position.

Assuming everyone is healthy, we will have Chris Osgood and Manny Legace in Detroit. That means that we have Joey MacDonald, Jimmy Howard and Drew MacIntyre all relegated to the minors. Not to mention that we also have Stefan Liv waiting in Europe. They are all pretty young too:

Howard: about 21 and a half
MacDonald: about 25 and a half
MacIntyre: about 22 and a half
Liv: almost 25

So we have 4 quality prospect netminders with the oldest being roughly 25 and a half. What do we do with them?

I think it's pretty much the consensus view that Howard is our future in net, and any of the other 3 would be a more than capable backup. I guess we could keep the other two in Grand Rapids in case we need them at any point, but it seems like a bit of a waste of talent to have two of them spend their entire careers in the minors.

So the question then becomes who backs up Howard, and what do we do with the other two?

#2 eva unit zero

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 06:25 AM

QUOTE (TNBT @ October 12, 2005 - 06:42AM)
I've been browsing Red Wings Central a bit more recently, and I got to thinking about our log-jam at the goalie position.

Assuming everyone is healthy, we will have Chris Osgood and Manny Legace in Detroit. That means that we have Joey MacDonald, Jimmy Howard and Drew MacIntyre all relegated to the minors. Not to mention that we also have Stefan Liv waiting in Europe. They are all pretty young too:

Howard: about 21 and a half
MacDonald: about 25 and a half
MacIntyre: about 22 and a half
Liv: almost 25

So we have 4 quality prospect netminders with the oldest being roughly 25 and a half. What do we do with them?

I think it's pretty much the consensus view that Howard is our future in net, and any of the other 3 would be a more than capable backup. I guess we could keep the other two in Grand Rapids in case we need them at any point, but it seems like a bit of a waste of talent to have two of them spend their entire careers in the minors.

So the question then becomes who backs up Howard, and what do we do with the other two?

One of Liv or Macdonald has to be traded.

Howard is not going to be the starter next season. He might not even be the backup. Both Liv and Macdonald would have to clear waivers to play in the AHL next season.

Assume for argument Legace is let go as a free agent next summer and Osgood is resigned.

Howard can play in Grand Rapids without having to clear waivers. So let's give him that spot.

DET Starter: Osgood
GR Starter: Howard

Liv is better and younger than Macdonald, and Liv would have been in Detroit backing up Legace had the Wings not signed Joseph. Macdonald, on the other hand, just had surgery and is no guarantee to even return to his form from last season. So give the backup spot to Liv, and send Macdonald to GR.

DET Starter: Osgood
DET Backup: Liv
GR Starter: Howard
GR Backup: Macdonald (pending waivers)

Howard would get a better chance to develop playing more games in Grand Rapids, while Liv has played plenty of years as a starter in a minor league and needs to play at a higher level of competition. Macintyre and Koopmans take the duties in Toledo.

Either Macdonald gets traded or claimed on waivers, but he is the most likely goalie to go out of the guys listed.
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#3 TheBadOne

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 09:08 AM

First off, with all due respect to Jim Howard, we really haven't seen him perform at a level outside of collegate hockey or exhibition games and I fear that without any true professional experience, he might not even be ready to handle backup duties at an NHL level. We have one of the hottest goaltending prospects out there right now and instead of developing, he's sitting on the bench and looking pretty while Ozzy and MacDonald heal. I'd rather see our AHL All-Star Goalie in a backup role and then have Howard come back and be our main man, but it just isn't working that way right now.

That being said, I think that MacDonald would be all the rave right now if he wasn't sidelined due to his back injuries. But he was and like Osgood, hasn't had a chance to compete for his spot in the goaltending depth due to his injuries. It suprises me how many people underestimate his abilities and I think that he would be a very solid backup guy for whomever is our go-to guy in the future, if not in a Vernon-Osgood like tandem with either Howard or another one of our prospects. I just hope he can regain his form and continue at the pace he was going at: from signing as an undrafted free-agent to being one of the best goalies in the AHL.

Liv needs to get into the system. I'm to understand he's off to a decent start this year in Sweden, and I think that with a little bit of professional experience in North America, he could a tough customer to deal with. He could be the X-Factor in this and determine where Howard and MacDonald fit into the depth system if he can outperform or underperform his peers.

MacIntyre needs to seize his opportunity as a starter in GR in order to prove to the management that he can also be capable of being beneficial to the future of Detroit. I don't see him leaving GR or Toledo for a few years though, but I think that as long as he can show the proper amount of work ethic and talent, he could find himself getting to the NHL.

As for Koopmans... well, all I got to say is that he's got a lot of work ahead of him if he wishes to clear the massive depth in front of him. If he can manage to surpass everyone else that I mentioned above, then he's definitely earned starting honors.

#4 TNBT

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 10:48 AM

QUOTE (eva unit zero @ October 12, 2005 - 07:25AM)
QUOTE (TNBT @ October 12, 2005 - 06:42AM)
I've been browsing Red Wings Central a bit more recently, and I got to thinking about our log-jam at the goalie position.

Assuming everyone is healthy, we will have Chris Osgood and Manny Legace in Detroit.  That means that we have Joey MacDonald, Jimmy Howard and Drew MacIntyre all relegated to the minors.  Not to mention that we also have Stefan Liv waiting in Europe.  They are all pretty young too:

Howard: about 21 and a half
MacDonald: about 25 and a half
MacIntyre: about 22 and a half
Liv: almost 25

So we have 4 quality prospect netminders with the oldest being roughly 25 and a half.  What do we do with them?

I think it's pretty much the consensus view that Howard is our future in net, and any of the other 3 would be a more than capable backup.  I guess we could keep the other two in Grand Rapids in case we need them at any point, but it seems like a bit of a waste of talent to have two of them spend their entire careers in the minors.

So the question then becomes who backs up Howard, and what do we do with the other two?

One of Liv or Macdonald has to be traded.

Howard is not going to be the starter next season. He might not even be the backup. Both Liv and Macdonald would have to clear waivers to play in the AHL next season.

Assume for argument Legace is let go as a free agent next summer and Osgood is resigned.

Howard can play in Grand Rapids without having to clear waivers. So let's give him that spot.

DET Starter: Osgood
GR Starter: Howard

Liv is better and younger than Macdonald, and Liv would have been in Detroit backing up Legace had the Wings not signed Joseph. Macdonald, on the other hand, just had surgery and is no guarantee to even return to his form from last season. So give the backup spot to Liv, and send Macdonald to GR.

DET Starter: Osgood
DET Backup: Liv
GR Starter: Howard
GR Backup: Macdonald (pending waivers)

Howard would get a better chance to develop playing more games in Grand Rapids, while Liv has played plenty of years as a starter in a minor league and needs to play at a higher level of competition. Macintyre and Koopmans take the duties in Toledo.

Either Macdonald gets traded or claimed on waivers, but he is the most likely goalie to go out of the guys listed.

Yeah, I know that we COULD hang on to all of them and spread them between Detroit and Grand Rapids if we wanted to, but why waste that sort of talent by leaving them in the AHL?

I know that Howard hasn't really had the chance to show what he can do at the pro level yet, but I'm just going on what we have seen in his career so far. The other 3 have all shown that they can be solid, quality goalies in the NHL, but Howard is the only one of the 4 who has really shown signs of being able to become an elite level goalie. That is why I have slotted him in as our future #1 guy.

As for the other 3, we COULD keep them but I think that management would rather trade them while they're young to a team in need of a goalie rather than let them grow old in Grand Rapids and end up with nothing in return for them. I could see Howard and one other playing in Detroit, with maybe one of the other 2 starting in Grand Rapids. That leaves one guy who will be the odd man out.

So assuming that Howard is our starter in the future, who which one of the others would you pick to back him up, and what would you do with the other two? If you would keep one in Grand Rapids, which one would you keep?

#5 eva unit zero

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 11:47 AM

QUOTE (TNBT @ October 12, 2005 - 11:48AM)
QUOTE (eva unit zero @ October 12, 2005 - 07:25AM)
QUOTE (TNBT @ October 12, 2005 - 06:42AM)
I've been browsing Red Wings Central a bit more recently, and I got to thinking about our log-jam at the goalie position.

Assuming everyone is healthy, we will have Chris Osgood and Manny Legace in Detroit.  That means that we have Joey MacDonald, Jimmy Howard and Drew MacIntyre all relegated to the minors.  Not to mention that we also have Stefan Liv waiting in Europe.  They are all pretty young too:

Howard: about 21 and a half
MacDonald: about 25 and a half
MacIntyre: about 22 and a half
Liv: almost 25

So we have 4 quality prospect netminders with the oldest being roughly 25 and a half.  What do we do with them?

I think it's pretty much the consensus view that Howard is our future in net, and any of the other 3 would be a more than capable backup.  I guess we could keep the other two in Grand Rapids in case we need them at any point, but it seems like a bit of a waste of talent to have two of them spend their entire careers in the minors.

So the question then becomes who backs up Howard, and what do we do with the other two?

One of Liv or Macdonald has to be traded.

Howard is not going to be the starter next season. He might not even be the backup. Both Liv and Macdonald would have to clear waivers to play in the AHL next season.

Assume for argument Legace is let go as a free agent next summer and Osgood is resigned.

Howard can play in Grand Rapids without having to clear waivers. So let's give him that spot.

DET Starter: Osgood
GR Starter: Howard

Liv is better and younger than Macdonald, and Liv would have been in Detroit backing up Legace had the Wings not signed Joseph. Macdonald, on the other hand, just had surgery and is no guarantee to even return to his form from last season. So give the backup spot to Liv, and send Macdonald to GR.

DET Starter: Osgood
DET Backup: Liv
GR Starter: Howard
GR Backup: Macdonald (pending waivers)

Howard would get a better chance to develop playing more games in Grand Rapids, while Liv has played plenty of years as a starter in a minor league and needs to play at a higher level of competition. Macintyre and Koopmans take the duties in Toledo.

Either Macdonald gets traded or claimed on waivers, but he is the most likely goalie to go out of the guys listed.

Yeah, I know that we COULD hang on to all of them and spread them between Detroit and Grand Rapids if we wanted to, but why waste that sort of talent by leaving them in the AHL?

I know that Howard hasn't really had the chance to show what he can do at the pro level yet, but I'm just going on what we have seen in his career so far. The other 3 have all shown that they can be solid, quality goalies in the NHL, but Howard is the only one of the 4 who has really shown signs of being able to become an elite level goalie. That is why I have slotted him in as our future #1 guy.

As for the other 3, we COULD keep them but I think that management would rather trade them while they're young to a team in need of a goalie rather than let them grow old in Grand Rapids and end up with nothing in return for them. I could see Howard and one other playing in Detroit, with maybe one of the other 2 starting in Grand Rapids. That leaves one guy who will be the odd man out.

So assuming that Howard is our starter in the future, who which one of the others would you pick to back him up, and what would you do with the other two? If you would keep one in Grand Rapids, which one would you keep?

I thought I already answered that.

Liv is the other goalie in Detroit.

Joey Mac gets traded at some point if he's not taken on waivers, and Drew Mac spends a couple years in GR.

Before last season, Liv was considered to have just as much or more potential as Howard. His ratings dropped because he had a 'poor' season when his team was being slaughtered by teams that had several NHLers. He also badly outplayed Brian Boucher, who is contending with Curtis Joseph in Phoenix.
"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic."
"I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."





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