Prospect ratings

[eva unit zero 271]

Seeing as we've been having all these discussions on the Wings' various prospects, I thought I'd throw these out for discussion/being flamed

I'm going to use the hockeysfuture.com ratings scale because I think it has a solid design--can be found here:

Ratings scale:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/playerprojections.php

I'm not going to rate everybody listed on hockeysfuture or red wings central, because obviously I'm not qualified to rate guys like Lofberg or Ryno (then again, how qualified are they to do so?). But I'll give ratings on some of the more prominent guys. I am also going to includ a couple guys who have since passed from the HF lists but I think are worth mentioning.

Forwards:

Igor Grigorenko 8.5B

Jiri Hudler 8.0B

Evan McGrath 8.0C

Valtteri Filppula 7.5B

Justin Abdelkader 7.5B

Tomas Kopecky 7.5C

Johan Franzen 6.5B

Matt Ellis 6.0B

Darryl Bootland 6.0B

Jari Tolsa 6.0C

Defensemen:

Niklas Kronwall 9.0B

Jakub Kindl 8.0B

Kyle Quincey 7.5B

Derek Meech 6.0B

Brett Lebda 5.5C

Goaltenders:

Jimmy Howard 8.0B

Stefan Liv 8.0C

Drew MacIntyre 7.5C

Joey Macdonald 7.0B

[snapshots 0]

Seeing as we've been having all these discussions on the Wings' various prospects, I thought I'd throw these out for discussion/being flamed

I'm going to use the hockeysfuture.com ratings scale because I think it has a solid design--can be found here:

Ratings scale:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/playerprojections.php

I'm not going to rate everybody listed on hockeysfuture or red wings central, because obviously I'm not qualified to rate guys like Lofberg or Ryno (then again, how qualified are they to do so?). But I'll give ratings on some of the more prominent guys. I am also going to includ a couple guys who have since passed from the HF lists but I think are worth mentioning.

Forwards:

Igor Grigorenko 8.5B

Jiri Hudler 8.0B

Evan McGrath 8.0C

Valtteri Filppula 7.5B

Justin Abdelkader 7.5B

Tomas Kopecky 7.5C

Johan Franzen 6.5B

Matt Ellis 6.0B

Darryl Bootland 6.0B

Jari Tolsa 6.0C

Defensemen:

Niklas Kronwall 9.0B

Jakub Kindl 8.0B

Kyle Quincey 7.5B

Derek Meech 6.0B

Brett Lebda 5.5C

Goaltenders:

Jimmy Howard 8.0B

Stefan Liv 8.0C

Drew MacIntyre 7.5C

Joey Macdonald 7.0B

Good rankings.

I'll give it a better look later. But those are pretty good. A little high, in some cases.

[J-Swift 0]

I think Niklas Kronwall might have even less of a chance of reaching the "9.0" status than your "B" would suggest. These leg injuries are starting to worry me, but they could very easily just be bad luck.

And I don't want to forget to mention Jakub Kindl. I gather he's played a good deal better this season in the OHL than he did last year, but Jakub doesn't seem to have a strong grip on the North American game. HF doesn't really like him either, as we can tell by his low rankings.

They kinda panned Abdelkader too, but I can't blame them, I really don't think this guy has a whole lot of skills. I don't mean to open up Latendresse debates again, but I'm still baffled by the Wings passing up on him. Honestly, Shanahan is getting older and will be off the team in a couple of years, leaving the Wings without a strong, power-forward; so what do we do?! Take Kindl and Abdelkader over a textbook power-forward like Latendresse. Unbelievable...

I think Hudler has the skills to put up points in the NHL, but whether he can find a place on the Wings roster is debatable. It would be a shame to trade a talent like Jiri's, but the role of highly-skilled winger/centre is already filled quite nicely by Hank and Dats.

All in all, though, I like your ratings and agree with most of them.

[norrisnick 1]

Seeing as we've been having all these discussions on the Wings' various prospects, I thought I'd throw these out for discussion/being flamed

I'm going to use the hockeysfuture.com ratings scale because I think it has a solid design--can be found here:

Ratings scale:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/playerprojections.php

I'm not going to rate everybody listed on hockeysfuture or red wings central, because obviously I'm not qualified to rate guys like Lofberg or Ryno (then again, how qualified are they to do so?). But I'll give ratings on some of the more prominent guys. I am also going to includ a couple guys who have since passed from the HF lists but I think are worth mentioning.

Forwards:

Igor Grigorenko 8.5B

Jiri Hudler 8.0B

Evan McGrath 8.0C

Valtteri Filppula 7.5B

Justin Abdelkader 7.5B

Tomas Kopecky 7.5C

Johan Franzen 6.5B

Matt Ellis 6.0B

Darryl Bootland 6.0B

Jari Tolsa 6.0C

Defensemen:

Niklas Kronwall 9.0B

Jakub Kindl 8.0B

Kyle Quincey 7.5B

Derek Meech 6.0B

Brett Lebda 5.5C

Goaltenders:

Jimmy Howard 8.0B

Stefan Liv 8.0C

Drew MacIntyre 7.5C

Joey Macdonald 7.0B

Good rankings.

I'll give it a better look later. But those are pretty good. A little high, in some cases.

I pretty much agree. The few that stand out to me are the Bs by Abdelkader Bootland, and Kindl (I'd give 'em Cs at this point). Probably the C by Kopecky as well (D).

peace

[eva unit zero 271]

Seeing as we've been having all these discussions on the Wings' various prospects, I thought I'd throw these out for discussion/being flamed

I'm going to use the hockeysfuture.com ratings scale because I think it has a solid design--can be found here:

Ratings scale:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/playerprojections.php

I'm not going to rate everybody listed on hockeysfuture or red wings central, because obviously I'm not qualified to rate guys like Lofberg or Ryno (then again, how qualified are they to do so?). But I'll give ratings on some of the more prominent guys. I am also going to includ a couple guys who have since passed from the HF lists but I think are worth mentioning.

Forwards:

Igor Grigorenko 8.5B

Jiri Hudler 8.0B

Evan McGrath 8.0C

Valtteri Filppula 7.5B

Justin Abdelkader 7.5B

Tomas Kopecky 7.5C

Johan Franzen 6.5B

Matt Ellis 6.0B

Darryl Bootland 6.0B

Jari Tolsa 6.0C

Defensemen:

Niklas Kronwall 9.0B

Jakub Kindl 8.0B

Kyle Quincey 7.5B

Derek Meech 6.0B

Brett Lebda 5.5C

Goaltenders:

Jimmy Howard 8.0B

Stefan Liv 8.0C

Drew MacIntyre 7.5C

Joey Macdonald 7.0B

Good rankings.

I'll give it a better look later. But those are pretty good. A little high, in some cases.

I pretty much agree. The few that stand out to me are the Bs by Abdelkader Bootland, and Kindl (I'd give 'em Cs at this point). Probably the C by Kopecky as well (D).

peace

Wow, I totally expected to get flamed on some of these.

Then again...Barnesey hasn't seen my Kopecky ranking yet.....

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Seeing as we've been having all these discussions on the Wings' various prospects, I thought I'd throw these out for discussion/being flamed

I'm going to use the hockeysfuture.com ratings scale because I think it has a solid design--can be found here:

Ratings scale:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/playerprojections.php

I'm not going to rate everybody listed on hockeysfuture or red wings central, because obviously I'm not qualified to rate guys like Lofberg or Ryno (then again, how qualified are they to do so?). But I'll give ratings on some of the more prominent guys. I am also going to includ a couple guys who have since passed from the HF lists but I think are worth mentioning.

Forwards:

Igor Grigorenko 8.5B

Jiri Hudler 8.0B

Evan McGrath 8.0C

Valtteri Filppula 7.5B

Justin Abdelkader 7.5B

Tomas Kopecky 7.5C

Johan Franzen 6.5B

Matt Ellis 6.0B

Darryl Bootland 6.0B

Jari Tolsa 6.0C

Defensemen:

Niklas Kronwall 9.0B

Jakub Kindl 8.0B

Kyle Quincey 7.5B

Derek Meech 6.0B

Brett Lebda 5.5C

Goaltenders:

Jimmy Howard 8.0B

Stefan Liv 8.0C

Drew MacIntyre 7.5C

Joey Macdonald 7.0B

I think you're overrating Hudler, Kopecky and Liv. Especially Liv, there's no way he's 8C if Howard is 8B and McDonald is 7B. Tolsa might be underrated.

[eva unit zero 271]

Seeing as we've been having all these discussions on the Wings' various prospects, I thought I'd throw these out for discussion/being flamed

I'm going to use the hockeysfuture.com ratings scale because I think it has a solid design--can be found here:

Ratings scale:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/playerprojections.php

I'm not going to rate everybody listed on hockeysfuture or red wings central, because obviously I'm not qualified to rate guys like Lofberg or Ryno (then again, how qualified are they to do so?). But I'll give ratings on some of the more prominent guys. I am also going to includ a couple guys who have since passed from the HF lists but I think are worth mentioning.

Forwards:

Igor Grigorenko 8.5B

Jiri Hudler 8.0B

Evan McGrath 8.0C

Valtteri Filppula 7.5B

Justin Abdelkader 7.5B

Tomas Kopecky 7.5C

Johan Franzen 6.5B

Matt Ellis 6.0B

Darryl Bootland 6.0B

Jari Tolsa 6.0C

Defensemen:

Niklas Kronwall 9.0B

Jakub Kindl 8.0B

Kyle Quincey 7.5B

Derek Meech 6.0B

Brett Lebda 5.5C

Goaltenders:

Jimmy Howard 8.0B

Stefan Liv 8.0C

Drew MacIntyre 7.5C

Joey Macdonald 7.0B

I think you're overrating Hudler, Kopecky and Liv. Especially Liv, there's no way he's 8C if Howard is 8B and McDonald is 7B. Tolsa might be underrated.

Hudler at 8.0B means that he'll be from 7.2 (90%of 8.0) to 8.0, which is he will be a second liner or a first liner. Pretty reasonable.

Kopecky has the ability if he reaches his full potential to be a solid second liner (7.5) and the C means 80%, so he could be anywhere from average third-liner to solid second liner. That's reasonable to expect from Kopecky as to what he'll reach in his career.

Liv at 8C means he could be full-time starter caliber, or go as low as 6.4, which is a decent backup. Howard's 8B has him dropping no lower than 7.2, which is part-time starter (like Roloson) while Macdonald's 7B drops him to 6.3 at the lowest, meaning he would be at least a dependable backup and possibly a part-time starter. For completeness, Drew MacIntyre's 7.5C drops as low potentially as a 6.0, or dependable backup.

Tolsa I was torn on. He's getting pretty up there in age for a prospect, and his signing deadlien is next summer. He is leading all Wings prospects in Sweden in scoring, which is a promising sign, but he is also 25 years old. He needs to take that next step with his game. I just didn't feel comfortable rating him as higher than a potential third liner given his lack of progress since being drafted.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Hudler at 8.0B means that he'll be from 7.2 (90%of 8.0) to 8.0, which is he will be a second liner or a first liner. Pretty reasonable.

Kopecky has the ability if he reaches his full potential to be a solid second liner (7.5) and the C means 80%, so he could be anywhere from average third-liner to solid second liner. That's reasonable to expect from Kopecky as to what he'll reach in his career.

Liv at 8C means he could be full-time starter caliber, or go as low as 6.4, which is a decent backup. Howard's 8B has him dropping no lower than 7.2, which is part-time starter (like Roloson) while Macdonald's 7B drops him to 6.3 at the lowest, meaning he would be at least a dependable backup and possibly a part-time starter. For completeness, Drew MacIntyre's 7.5C drops as low potentially as a 6.0, or dependable backup.

Tolsa I was torn on. He's getting pretty up there in age for a prospect, and his signing deadlien is next summer. He is leading all Wings prospects in Sweden in scoring, which is a promising sign, but he is also 25 years old. He needs to take that next step with his game. I just didn't feel comfortable rating him as higher than a potential third liner given his lack of progress since being drafted.

I don't think Hudler has first line potential at all. Too small and slow. Secondliner at best. Still not sure he's an NHL calibre player at all. Something like 7B/C. Thing is if he doesn't make the top two lines he's practically useless due to his weaknesses.

Kopecky has shown absolutely nothing. How you rank him a potential secondliner is a mystery to me. Looks more like a 6C to me.

I doubt Liv will be anything more than a backup at NHL level. That is if he is signed at all. He doesn't strike me as the determined type. 6B.

Tolsa is 24, which means he is still younger than Liv (turns 25 in December). Granted goalies need more time to develop, but the transition is also greater for goalies than forwards. I'd say that Tolsas improvement is beyond statistics. He's a very mature and intelligent player. I wouldn't necessarily say that his potential is much higher than a third liner, but he definitely has a greater shot at fullfilling that potential compared to others. Borderline 6A in my book. It would be a huge mistake not to try him out in Grand Rapids IMO.

[eva unit zero 271]

Hudler at 8.0B means that he'll be from 7.2 (90%of 8.0) to 8.0, which is he will be a second liner or a first liner. Pretty reasonable.

Kopecky has the ability if he reaches his full potential to be a solid second liner (7.5) and the C means 80%, so he could be anywhere from average third-liner to solid second liner. That's reasonable to expect from Kopecky as to what he'll reach in his career.

Liv at 8C means he could be full-time starter caliber, or go as low as 6.4, which is a decent backup. Howard's 8B has him dropping no lower than 7.2, which is part-time starter (like Roloson) while Macdonald's 7B drops him to 6.3 at the lowest, meaning he would be at least a dependable backup and possibly a part-time starter. For completeness, Drew MacIntyre's 7.5C drops as low potentially as a 6.0, or dependable backup.

Tolsa I was torn on. He's getting pretty up there in age for a prospect, and his signing deadlien is next summer. He is leading all Wings prospects in Sweden in scoring, which is a promising sign, but he is also 25 years old. He needs to take that next step with his game. I just didn't feel comfortable rating him as higher than a potential third liner given his lack of progress since being drafted.

I don't think Hudler has first line potential at all. Too small and slow. Secondliner at best. Still not sure he's an NHL calibre player at all. Something like 7B/C. Thing is if he doesn't make the top two lines he's practically useless due to his weaknesses.

Kopecky has shown absolutely nothing. How you rank him a potential secondliner is a mystery to me. Looks more like a 6C to me.

I doubt Liv will be anything more than a backup at NHL level. That is if he is signed at all. He doesn't strike me as the determined type. 6B.

Tolsa is 24, which means he is still younger than Liv (turns 25 in December). Granted goalies need more time to develop, but the transition is also greater for goalies than forwards. I'd say that Tolsas improvement is beyond statistics. He's a very mature and intelligent player. I wouldn't necessarily say that his potential is much higher than a third liner, but he definitely has a greater shot at fullfilling that potential compared to others. Borderline 6A in my book. It would be a huge mistake not to try him out in Grand Rapids IMO.

I agree on continuting Tolsa's development being a good idea.

Bt I think you are rating the others based on where you think they are more likely to fall.

Kopecky has the potential to become a top-two line player. It's unlikely he'll reach that potential fully. But he definitely has it and still shows flashes of it now and then.

Liv definitely has starter potential...he would already make a pretty decent backup in the NHL. The question with him is can he make the transition between the different games, and will he even be brought over?

Hudler's work ethic this season alone has elevated his stock in my eyes. This is a guy who was going out there the last couple years and basically half the time gign through the motions. Now he is working hard every game and he has added muscle, and it's paying off in a big way.

[Bliz 0]

I think HF generally underrates by a small amount. They're pretty willing to give propects a second look if they play well enough, so rerates aren't uncommon (I think they blasted the Wings for drafting Kronwall way back when, for example). Still, these ratings might be a little too optimistic in some spots. Specifically, I don't think Drew MacIntyre or Joey MacDonald have that kind of upside--but overall you've got the right idea.

Howard has looked like the real deal so far, so I'm a bit suprised to see him only a 7.5 at HF. Hopefully he gets off to a solid start in Grand Rapids--and has a lot of good years in Detroit, too.

[theman19 47]

i think lebda is underrated given his limited player here.

[WesternWing 0]

I'm going to use the hockeysfuture.com ratings scale because I think it has a solid design--can be found here:

THAT DOESN'T MEAN DIDLEY CRAP

How much you get paid with useless posts??

Ratings , don't you mean opinions ???

because they are not official period

[theman19 47]

I'm going to use the hockeysfuture.com ratings scale because I think it has a solid design--can be found here:

THAT DOESN'T MEAN DIDLEY CRAP

How much you get paid with useless posts??

Ratings , don't you mean opinions ???

because they are not official period

oh wow,...someone needs a chill pill. Look dude eva has some soild info and alot of people around here myself included depend on him and others (the barnes brothers, norris nick and few people) to inform us about how our prospects are comming along. i didn't know about that web site and i found it informative (though in need serious need of an update) lay off man you don't run this place and doing something like you just did is a very good way to be ignored.

[WesternWing 0]

to inform us about how our prospects are comming along

THAT IS GOOD BUT TO RATE THEM IS A JOKE

who scored, who won , who is hurt, is infomation and for your infomation

another site provides that and more

on a daily basis not just on Monday and they do not put a rate on the players they do not judge them they give the facts

To me they are giving an opinion and they do not come across to me as professionals

and that is a fact --

If they were they would be working in the field

I do not see them writing for the Associated Press

Chilly Willly

Edited November 5, 2005 by WesternWing

[J-Swift 0]

THAT IS GOOD BUT TO RATE THEM IS A JOKE

who scored,  who won , who is hurt,  is infomation and for your infomation

another site  provides that and more

on a daily basis not just on Monday and they do not put a rate  on the players they do not judge them they give the facts

To me they are giving an opinion and they do not  come across to me as professionals

and that is a fact --

If they were they would be working in the field

I do not see them writing for the Associated Press

Chilly Willly 

That is possibly the most incoherent post I've ever read.

Eva wanted to start a thread to discuss and rate prospects. Never once did he claim to be a pro, and he never once did he say his rankings were any more factual than what they have at HockeysFuture.com. We all know what the Wings' prospects' stats are, they're not hard to find. Personally, I'd love to see a few opinions/observations from those on this site who have actually seen Detroit's draft picks play. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Happened to catch a few highlights from the Swedish second tier the other day. One of the experts said he saw two players on the ice good enough to play in the SEL. One was Red Wings prospect Johan Ryno (Detroit's 6th choice at this years draft). A friend of mine confirmed that Ryno and Anton Axelsson (Detroit's 5th choice in 2004) has looked impressive thus far.

Edited November 10, 2005 by RyanBarnes!

[eva unit zero 271]

THAT IS GOOD BUT TO RATE THEM IS A JOKE

who scored, who won , who is hurt, is infomation and for your infomation

another site provides that and more

on a daily basis not just on Monday and they do not put a rate on the players they do not judge them they give the facts

To me they are giving an opinion and they do not come across to me as professionals

and that is a fact --

If they were they would be working in the field

I do not see them writing for the Associated Press

Chilly Willly

I started this thread so those who were interested could discuss the quality of our prospects. I like the hockeysfuture rating scale, so I thought I would give MY OPINION (it's in the thread title!) of what they should be rated, to help AVOID CONFUSION of whether saying a guy will be a 'good player' means he'll be the next Steve Yzerman or the next Peter Zezel.

As for professional experience, yeah I have that. Not currently working in journalism, but I have a few years of experience as a reporter, columnist, and editor.

[redwings1914 18]

Thanks Eva, Good Stuff....

I am familiar with HF.....but have always been a little confused with the "8.0 (" rating scale.....

What do those mean?

[eva unit zero 271]

Thanks Eva, Good Stuff....

I am familiar with HF.....but have always been a little confused with the "8.0 (" rating scale.....

What do those mean?

The number is the player's maximum potential, and the letter represents his chance of reaching said potential. A means a lock, B means they could drrop to 90% of the number, C 80%, D 70%, and F means potentially a total bust.

[redwings1914 18]

Thanks Eva, Good Stuff....

I am familiar with HF.....but have always been a little confused with the "8.0 (" rating scale.....

What do those mean?

The number is the player's maximum potential, and the letter represents his chance of reaching said potential. A means a lock, B means they could drrop to 90% of the number, C 80%, D 70%, and F means potentially a total bust.

Ah, Thanks Eva!

[Hockey Master 0]

What about Franzen, though? Now he's on the team and doing decently.

[Grind_Lines_#1_Fan 0]

Good, but I think Hudler and Grigorenko should be here and Liv by now too.

Looks good though.

[Hockey Master 0]

I also might contest Ellis and Bootland. I think Bootland is a better player than Ellis, as in better rounded. Bootland's physical game gives him an edge.

[Seth 0]

you know who would be good to have back? Tomas Fleischmann.

Speaking of which this dude seems to be way under their radar but damn does he sound soild in my mind. Jonas Johansson just awesome size and if giving the right linemates to learn from *cough* *cough* Sam the Swede and Frazen. Well just just say I think he could easily be a tossed diamond in the rough.

[eva unit zero 271]

you know who would be good to have back? Tomas Fleischmann.

Speaking of which this dude seems to be way under their radar but damn does he sound soild in my mind. Jonas Johansson just awesome size and if giving the right linemates to learn from *cough* *cough* Sam the Swede and Frazen. Well just just say I think he could easily be a tossed diamond in the rough.

I would rank Fleischmann somewhere between Filppula and Kopecky.