3 Way Deal Involving The Wings, Bolts, and Ducks

[theman19 47]

i've really got a feeling where next to pick up somebody huge but it won't be legacy we trade.

[BeeRYCE 2]

i've really got a feeling where next to pick up somebody huge but it won't be legacy we trade.

I hope you're right.

[J-Swift 0]

Outsider, I'm all for getting Ozzie some more starts while Manny's out with his knee injury, and he should definitely get the start after Howard plays tomorrow night. I certainly don't mean to come off as an Osgood-basher (though unfortunately I sometimes do), but the problem is I tend to be a "what have you done for me lately" kind of guy.

It was clearly stated by Wings management before the season started that both Legace and Osgood would each get a fair chance at the starting position. And though Ozzie has had groin troubles, I believe Manny has earned the starting job right now. To ship him out would be absolutely ludicrous.

My "capable of starting" statement might've been a little harsh. It's just that, so far this season, Ozzie has not looked like a guy capable of starting in net for the Detroit Red Wings. That's all. There's no denying that Chris does indeed know (and quite possibly has) what it takes. Despite the so-so numbers he put up in St. Louis last season, he truly had an excellent year. Osgood was brilliant in the last quarter of the season, and was the main reason the Blues snuck into the playoffs. This shows us all that Ozzie is, by no means, washed up. But my problem is, if Manny and Ozzie were both supposed to get a fair shot at the starting job, why would we even think about shipping Legace out when, as of right now, he looks like a starting goalie while Osgood does not?!

Personally, I hope Chris does whatever it takes to get back on track. Whether it's starting more games, practising harder, or just relaxing. To be honest, I'd rather have him in the playoffs than Legace. Despite letting in the occasional softie from the red line, Osgood is awfully solid in the regular season, while Manny wasn't exactly spectacular in what little action he's gotten beyond the post-season. But, as I've said before, if the competition between Ozzie and Manny for the starting job is supposed to be a fair fight, past events cannot determine the outcome.

Funny how every thread manages to involve Chris Osgood and Manny Legace somehow, huh? Sorry guys for totally hijacking this thread...

[Rice 42]

I really think their is some legitamacy to this trade.

It seems like the D plays with a sense of urgency when Howard is in net and Babcock probably loves it, and if they can keep doing it all year why not move one of the other two goalies? Anyway, blockbusters are always fun. Especially when they involve your team.

[e_mcgrath88 0]

Mcgrath, just curious (not flaming you), could you tell us who or what your source does for the Griffs?

As I said in another thread, I cant thrown names out there. I can only tell you that my sources are involved in team marketing. They work closely with some top executives of hockey operations in Grand Rapids. The trade i proposed was speculation. I included only the names that I heard might be involved. Whether or not something goes through in the next couple days, i'm not sure. One thing though is for sure, Howard is expected not to return to Grand Rapids.

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

As I said in another thread, I cant thrown names out there. I can only tell you that my sources are involved in team marketing. They work closely with some top executives of hockey operations in Grand Rapids. The trade i proposed was speculation. I included only the names that I heard might be involved. Whether or not something goes through in the next couple days, i'm not sure. One thing though is for sure, Howard is expected not to return to Grand Rapids.

It sure must be nice to get the down- low about the Griffins and their management, but i find it hard to believe, (that is unless you are directly involved with the team operations) that anyone would just tell you confidential information. And it is even more of a shame that you would breech this persons trust if in fact you are telling the truth.

I would really love to hear the whole story, but unfortunatly, until we hear anything offical, we have to listen to people talk out of their asses about what they think/ wish would happen.

And I would hope you had the sense to realize that Manny isn't going anywhere.

I think most people would feel that it is safe to say that Babcock has little to no faith that Osgoodis going to be able to carry this team to the cup, and I think it is way too early to just assume that Jimmy can handle the job after one game.

The only reason i can think of why Osgood would stay here is that we would probably not able to get two cents and a nugget of (Place the name of a decent player you would like to see on the wings roster here)'s s**t for his sorry ass.

[BringDMacBack 0]

What's really starting to bother me is this. Manny is going to be out longer then expected he wants the MRI etc. Howard is up until then. And why is Kenny Holland calling Grand Rapids and telling them that there is a deal in the making between 3 teams and Legace is gone and we are keeping Howard up? Not sure Ken Holland even makes that call to GR in the first place. This probably started in GR with something to the effect that Howard will be in Detroit until further notice. Of course the Janitor heard the conversation and ran and told all of his buddies that Legace and Hudler were getting traded. Somewhere there is a Janitor laughing his ass off.

Edited December 1, 2005 by BringDMacBack

[e_mcgrath88 0]

It sure must be nice to get the down- low about the Griffins and their management, but i find it hard to believe, (that is unless you are directly involved with the team operations) that anyone would just tell you confidential information. And it is even more of a shame that you would breech this persons trust if in fact you are telling the truth.

I would really love to hear the whole story, but unfortunatly, until we hear anything offical, we have to listen to people talk out of their asses about what they think/ wish would happen.

And I would hope you had the sense to realize that Manny isn't going anywhere.

I think most people would feel that it is safe to say that Babcock has little to no faith that Osgoodis going to be able to carry this team to the cup, and I think it is way too early to just assume that Jimmy can handle the job after one game.

The only reason i can think of why Osgood would stay here is that we would probably not able to get two cents and a nugget of (Place the name of a decent player you would like to see on the wings roster here)'s s**t for his sorry ass.

Well I could tell you my life story about who I am and who I know, but it's not worth telling idiots like you. People cant take a rumor for what it's worth. I didnt put forth any confidential information. My associates have not been sworn to secrecy based on things that occur around the office. How do you think rumors exist?? Why are trades often predicted before they happen?? An AHL teams front office isnt the CIA pal. But Maybe you can take me to court for this

[e_mcgrath88 0]

What's really starting to bother me is this. Manny is going to be out longer then expected he wants the MRI etc. Howard is up until then. And why is Kenny Holland calling Grand Rapids and telling them that there is a deal in the making between 3 teams and Legace is gone and we are keeping Howard up? Not sure Ken Holland even makes that call to GR in the first place. This probably started in GR with something to the effect that Howard will be in Detroit until further notice. Of course the Janitor heard the conversation and ran and told all of his buddies that Legace and Hudler were getting traded. Somewhere there is a Janitor laughing his ass off.

Wow.. You guys are real classy hockey fans. If it is all a bunch of b.s to you then dont reply. This will definately be the last time I start a thread in the rumor section. Mark my words right now.. Howard is in Detroit permanately. I'm pretty sure Holland would call down to GR and let them know why. Get a life please. Thanks again.

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

Wow.. You guys are real classy hockey fans. If it is all a bunch of b.s to you then dont reply. This will definately be the last time I start a thread in the rumor section. Mark my words right now.. Howard is in Detroit permanately. I'm pretty sure Holland would call down to GR and let them know why. Get a life please. Thanks again.

Howard Here permanately?

On what grounds? That we are going to Trade Manny?

Maybe if we were ditching Osgood maybe, but the fatc of the matter is Osgood is sub-par, and I dont think Holland would rest the team on a goalie who has played one game in the NHL

If you are going to strut around here like you know something, why not back it up?

[e_mcgrath88 0]

Howard Here permanately?

On what grounds? That we are going to Trade Manny?

Maybe if we were ditching Osgood maybe, but the fatc of the matter is Osgood is sub-par, and I dont think Holland would rest the team on a goalie who has played one game in the NHL

If you are going to strut around here like you know something, why not back it up?

Back it up with what?? I havent spoken to Holland. I don't know what his reasoning would be. But I know personally that Legace is nothing more than a back up goalie in this league anyway. He had a great month of October, but lets not forget the teams we played. We could have thrown Joey McDonald in October and we still could have come out with an excellent record. Since then, Legace hasnt impressed me anymore than Osgood has. Atleast Osgood is a starting goalie with a ton of experience. I would take a Stanley Cup winner over a player of the month anyday. Maybe thats what Holland has in mind.

[BringDMacBack 0]

AHHHH know I see where this rumor is comming from. Hell I'd kick you mouth but Osgood would get castrated. Another asshat sucking the 5hole of a has been goalie that got booted in favor a backup and a rookie. Just get over Osgood he will be a fixture in the AHL next year. or Just done in general.

There but you can't take the term asshat away from me

Edited December 1, 2005 by BringDMacBack

[Outsider 42]

Howard Here permanately?

On what grounds? That we are going to Trade Manny?

Maybe if we were ditching Osgood maybe, but the fatc of the matter is Osgood is sub-par, and I dont think Holland would rest the team on a goalie who has played one game in the NHL

If you are going to strut around here like you know something, why not back it up?

But he WOULD, in your estimation, be perfectly comfortable resting the Wings entire Regular Season AND Play-Off hopes on a guy who's never played more than 41 Games in a Season and has a grand total of 4 Games and 10 minutes of Play-Off experience, (with a 2-2 Record), and the same fresh-out-of-college, rookie goaltender.

Right?

[norrisnick 1]

Keep it clean and civil.

peace

[Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot) 55]

AHHHH know I see where this rumor is comming from. Hell I'd kick you mouth but Osgood would get castrated. Another asshat sucking the 5hole of a has been goalie that got booted in favor a backup and a rookie. Just get over Osgood he will be a fixture in the AHL next year. or Just done in general.

There but you can't take the term asshat away from me

Jeez, at least someone here has the common sense to see Osgood for what he is

All of you who cannot seem to get the fact past you that 1998 was ALMOST 8 YEARS AGO. Get over it Osgood isnt going to do this club any good. Manny has what we who are educated past the 9th grade CONSISTENCY(sp?)!

Look at Osgoos and Mannys numbers from the last 3 or 4 years. Yeah, manny has played about 30% less games than Osgood, but his numbers blow Osgood and his size XXS jock strap right out of the water.

Osgood lovers base their argument on 1998

"The cult of Manny" can all say that their goaltender has been much more consistent, and deserves a chance in the playoffs. Hell, he cant do much worse than osgood's long list of early exits

And how many times do I have to say this: Didnt we kick this has-been to the curb for a reason

[norrisnick 1]

And how many times do I have to say this: Didnt we kick this has-been to the curb for a reason

Manny (nor Howard for that matter) isn't a 6-time Vezina, 2-time Hart/Pearson, Olympic gold medal winning goaltender. His highlights include being the winningest October goaltender ever (woooo!!) and notoriety as the best backup in the NHL in recent years.

How many times do I have to say this? No goaltender will be the make it or break it component of this team. If we play like we did against the Kings we have a legitimate shot to compete for that big silver shiny thing in June. If we play like we have the the rest of the past couple weeks, not so much.

peace

[hockeyh 0]

why would we even think about shipping Legace out when, as of right now, he looks like a starting goalie while Osgood does not?!

Because he's never been worth as much as he is right now...This is the same logic used by the people who "suggested" trading Lidstrom away right now.

[GuloGulo 0]

Enough goalie circus. You play with the goalies you've got until they're all injured or totally embarassing themselves (which neither has lest the entire team has so far this season).

[redwings1914 18]

It seems like the D plays with a sense of urgency when Howard is in net

That's one game.....

....plus they had to make up for not showing up against SJ....

[OsGOD 3]

Because he's never been worth as much as he is right now...This is the same logic used by the people who "suggested" trading Lidstrom away right now.

On the same note, everyone is hoping we get an ALL-STAR Kick your Ass Defenseman in this so-called trade....

Well you know what, "if" Ozzie is indeed as bad as many say he is... Who on earth is going to want to part with this so-desired ALL-STAR Kick Your Ass Defenseman for a lowly "finish is career in the AHL" goaltender.

Going by all of your negativity for Osgood and Positivity for Legace, I would have to gather that shipping out Legace would be the only viable goalie who would give you the return you so desperately want!

That is unless we are SHOPPING Howard right now instead of either Legace or Osgood. Seems odd doesn't it? that the two goalies speculated in the Blockbuster trade are either A) broken down or viewed by several wings fans to be the suck of all suck. Yet they continue to play Howard and not let the other goalies prove their worth to the rest of leagues perspective buyers. Legace I can understand since he is hurt, but he had a great October and then a so-so November then he got hurt... doesn't seem like a player that would result in a team giving up a decent defenseman for.

[BringDMacBack 0]

Yeah but for some reason. The team stepped it up for Howard they have always stepped it up for Legace and the WHOLE team had a bad November, Yeah well Mr Hall of Fame Chris Osgood just needs 60 or 70 games to get the hang of the new NHL. I keep saying the only thing we can get for Osgood is a bag of pucks probably used. We will pick up a Dman on the open market. Due to the simple fact that Fischer is not comming back, But I would not expect Holland to make any blockbuster deals just yet.

[OsGOD 3]

The team stepped it for Howard yes... Up until that game the Defense was invisible for both Legace and Osgood to say otherwise you must have been watching some other Defense... The Wings D looked awful throughout most of November, hence where most of our losses came from. Manny had a rough go of it in November with our crappy D in front of him as well. So much so, he was seen getting physically upset when goals would get scored on him... Very un-Manny like to lose his cool on the ice.

I am not saying he (ozzie) needs 60-70 games to get used to the New NHL but playing more than 8 in a 2 month span would definetly be a HUGE plus. Not to mention he came in for relief of injured Manny in 2 of those eight games... So he really only got to start 6 games in 2 months.

Its all stems on whether the D from Monday is here to stay or was it just visiting. If it was just visiting I feel so bad for Howard tonight!

[Seth 0]

man this thread we crazy fast....you guys lay off Mcgrath...he heard a rumor and hes posting it jesus. He's right GR ain't the CIA so everybody just calm down. After reading up on Evgeni Artukhin I gotta say the guy looks pretty awesome. My only beef with this deal is how un even it is. If we are shippin Legace (whom Im a fan of) then we should get a hell of alot more than a grit D man and a Artukhin. If it were for the 2 and a 2nd rounder then I would see it as fair.

[Heaton 1]

Legace's trade value isn't as high as some people may think. Every team needs a reliable backup goalie, and everyone has seen that Legace has the ability to be a #1, but he is 33 years old, never started for an entire season and has often been injured this year.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Jeez, at least someone here has the common sense to see Osgood for what he is

All of you who cannot seem to get the fact past you that 1998 was ALMOST 8 YEARS AGO. Get over it Osgood isnt going to do this club any good.  Manny has what we who are educated past the 9th grade CONSISTENCY(sp?)!

Look at Osgoos and Mannys numbers from the last 3 or 4 years.  Yeah, manny has played about 30% less games than Osgood, but his numbers blow Osgood and his size XXS jock strap right out of the water. 

Osgood lovers base their argument on 1998

"The cult of Manny" can all say that their goaltender has been much more consistent, and deserves a chance in the playoffs.  Hell, he cant do much worse than osgood's long list of early exits 

And how many times do I have to say this: Didnt we kick this has-been to the curb for a reason

Here we go again:

First, I'll believe this rumor when I get even a whiff of it from somewhere else.

Osgood has played like crap this season, but if you think he hasn't played well since 1998, you haven't been watching.

The 30% less games Manny has played is a HUGE difference. Manny's never been a starter. That's a fact you can't get around. He's never even played a full season. That doesn't mean he can't, but it does mean that the stats you're comparing don't mean a thing because it's nowhere near apples to apples.

Manny doesn't have many early playoff exits because no one has ever seen fit to start him in the playoffs except last season, when he got yanked for a better goaltender after having a terrible game. Remember? Does getting benched not count as an early playoff exit?

Even great goalies have early playoff exits. But I think Ozzy's name on the Cup as a starting goaltender probably eases some of those painful memories.

In 1996, when the 24-year old Osgood started his 50th NHL game, he already acheived more in his career than Manny (who is virtually the same age) has to date.

If Osgood is a has been, Manny is a never was.

Edited December 1, 2005 by haroldsnepsts