• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
betterREDthandead

Tigers offseason thread

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Nothing so far on the Tigers, but I think that's a good thing....does anyone else think the contracts going to guys who only pitch one inning every other game or so, are ridiculous?? B.J. Ryan got absolutely stupid money. Free agent closers are bad news.

Looks like there are some candidates out there to fill Jason Johnson's spot in the rotation....Kevin Millwood, Carl Pavano, and A.J. Burnett are the names most mentioned. Not sure I'd be pleased with Pavano or Burnett.....Pavano spurned the Tigers already, sold his soul to the devil (signed with the Yankees) with tongue hanging out and dollar signs in the eyes....and now he wants out. He's not even that amazing a pitcher....taking on that contract is too much, if you ask me. And Burnett wants too much money also. Millwood might make sense, but he's no ace....he's a quality second starter if you've got someone better, as the Braves always did. Barry Zito looks like a candidate to be traded, and I'd love to see him on the Tigers, but Billy Beane is a sharp, sharp dealer in that sort of trade. I can just see Justin Verlander packing his bags for Oakland in that deal. The only time you can get a good trade out of Beane is when you catch him dealing a minor-leaguer that doesn't fit his Moneyball worldview. The only reason the Tigers got Bonderman out of him is because Bonderman was drafted behind Beane's back, and he was furious about it.....he doesn't spend top picks on high-schoolers.

And who will not be a Tiger next season? Jason Johnson and Rondell White are as good as gone. Tigers might have to give Carlos Pena and/or Craig Monroe up in a trade. I'd hate to see Monroe leave....steady player who quietly puts up nice numbers. Could the Tigers trade Pudge? I hope not...I think he can still be Pudge, and I like seeing Inge at third base.....trading Pudge would require Inge to move back to catcher, where his hitting WILL suffer, and open up a hole at third.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, betterREDthandead that was well said for the most part. I totally agree that Kevin Millwood might be the best solution. If they sign Millwood the rotation would likely be Bonderman,Millwood, Maroth, Robertson, and Verlander. Also I think if Troy Percival gets hurt, Rodney should go from Middle Reliever to Closer and Jamie Walker should always be Setup Man. Also I am still a huge fan of Pudge, but if he gets selfish it is not gonna be a good sight. Trading Monroe would not be good. I cant stand the rumors of Carlos Pena to the Bronx for Carl Pavano, because Pena will leave and play good there and hit 30-35 bombs probably batting 6 or 7, and Pavano will do nothing for us. Also I dont think the FA Closers are very good this year and I especially dont want us to get rid of White if they cant get someone better.

Edited by Grind_Lines_#1_Fan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nothing so far on the Tigers, but I think that's a good thing....does anyone else think the contracts going to guys who only pitch one inning every other game or so, are ridiculous?? B.J. Ryan got absolutely stupid money. Free agent closers are bad news.

Looks like there are some candidates out there to fill Jason Johnson's spot in the rotation....Kevin Millwood, Carl Pavano, and A.J. Burnett are the names most mentioned. Not sure I'd be pleased with Pavano or Burnett.....Pavano spurned the Tigers already, sold his soul to the devil (signed with the Yankees) with tongue hanging out and dollar signs in the eyes....and now he wants out. He's not even that amazing a pitcher....taking on that contract is too much, if you ask me. And Burnett wants too much money also. Millwood might make sense, but he's no ace....he's a quality second starter if you've got someone better, as the Braves always did. Barry Zito looks like a candidate to be traded, and I'd love to see him on the Tigers, but Billy Beane is a sharp, sharp dealer in that sort of trade. I can just see Justin Verlander packing his bags for Oakland in that deal. The only time you can get a good trade out of Beane is when you catch him dealing a minor-leaguer that doesn't fit his Moneyball worldview. The only reason the Tigers got Bonderman out of him is because Bonderman was drafted behind Beane's back, and he was furious about it.....he doesn't spend top picks on high-schoolers.

And who will not be a Tiger next season? Jason Johnson and Rondell White are as good as gone. Tigers might have to give Carlos Pena and/or Craig Monroe up in a trade. I'd hate to see Monroe leave....steady player who quietly puts up nice numbers. Could the Tigers trade Pudge? I hope not...I think he can still be Pudge, and I like seeing Inge at third base.....trading Pudge would require Inge to move back to catcher, where his hitting WILL suffer, and open up a hole at third.

i agree with you on almost everything! B.J. Ryan and Tom "Flash" Gordon both got just ridiculous contracts, and they will both end up pitching an inning every other game. i wouldnt mind seeing Millwood come over to Detroit, but you said it, hes not an ace, which is fine as the Tigers have Bonderman. but i seem to be the only one who wants to see Bob Wickman sport the old english D next year. face it, they really need a true closer, as Rodney, German and Walker will most likely all be needed in the set up role next year, leaving a hole in the closer spot.

As for the ones who WONT be tigers next year, i would hate to see monroe get traded, but i dont think we have to worry about that. and we will definitly NOT be trading Pudge with his $10 million salary, but unfortunitely he will not be that good anymore. Johnson is for sure gone, but im not so sure about White. why not take him back? Higginson is out the door as well. They will most likely end up trading away Carlos Pena, despite his late season surge last year. I would just love to see Zito end up in Detroit, but i dont know how we would pull off a trade like that. we just dont have enough to give!

Some of the free agents hitters that are still out there that the tigers could sign are Johnny Damon, Jacque Jones, Juan Encarnacion, and Kenny Lofton. Center field is the biggest concern to me, with the two CFs on the roster right now being Granderson and Logan. I would think they would be courting Johnny Damon, as he is a decent center fielder, and he is also capable of holding the lead-off spot. Jacque Jones and Juan Encarnacion could be valuable pick ups as well though because they both are capable of playing center.

My projected lineup for next year:

1. Johnny Damon/Curtis Granderson (CF)

2. Placido Polanco (2B)

3. Carlos Guillen (SS)

4. Chris Shelton (1B)

5. Magglio Ordonez (RF)

6. Pudge Rodriguez ©

7. Dmitri Young (DH)

8. Craig Monroe (LF)

9. Brandon Inge (3B)

Bench:

Marcus Thames

Nook Logan

wow, for having such little talent, its actually kinda hard to make a batting order for the tigers!

As for the rotation:

1. Jeremy Bonderman

2. Mike Maroth

3. Nate Robertson

4. Justin Verlander

5. Jason Grilli

Bullpen:

Fernando Rodney

Jamie Walker

Franklin German

Chris Spurling

Craig Dingman

Doug Creek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, betterREDthandead that was well said for the most part. I totally agree that Kevin Millwood might be the best solution. If they sign Millwood the rotation would likely be Bonderman,Millwood, Maroth, Robertson, and Verlander. Also I think if Troy Percival gets hurt, Rodney should go from Middle Reliever to Closer and Jamie Walker should always be Setup Man. Also I am still a huge fan of Pudge, but if he gets selfish it is not gonna be a good sight. Trading Monroe would not be good. I cant stand the rumors of Carlos Pena to the Bronx for Carl Pavano, because Pena will leave and play good there and hit 30-35 bombs probably batting 6 or 7, and Pavano will do nothing for us. Also I dont think the FA Closers are very good this year and I especially dont want us to get rid of White if they cant get someone better.

The Tigs are not counting on Percival this year....it looks like, with his age and his condition, his career is over. Rodney seems the most likely candidate to hold down the closer spot, if they can't acquire anyone, but Franklyn German was acquired with the idea of being the closer of the future, so he'll get a shot.

You're right...Pena will probably figure out how to hit as soon as he leaves Detroit, kinda like Phil Nevin and Juan Encarnacion (of course, Nevin was probably roid ragin'.) Leyland is set on a four-man rotation in the outfield of Maggs, Monroe, Nook Logan, and Curtis Granderson, but Monroe has trade value and he might have to settle on Marcus Thames, or use just three. Maroth and Robertson being lefties, they have value in a trade as well, but I don't see them going anywhere.

The winter meetings should be interesting. I'd love to see the Tigers come out of there with a new acquisition. Bobby Seay for Toledo has been it so far....I hope they continue to be wise about not spending too much on free agents, it is not a terrific crop.

At the moment, I see the lineup looking like this:

1. Nook Logan - CF

2. Placido Polanco - 2B

3. Magglio Ordonez - RF

4. Pudge Rodriguez - C

5. Carlos Guillen - SS

6. Dmitri Young - DH

7. Chris Shelton - 1B

8. Curtis Granderson - LF

9. Brandon Inge - 3B

That's not bad. Inge is a quality hitter batting ninth to set up the top of the lineup with Logan's speed. Craig Monroe and Omar Infante would rotate in and be the first off the bench, with Thames getting some time and Vance Wilson, who the Tigers want back, spelling Pudge. Pudge would need to get back to form. I think he will if he settles his emotions down, he had a rough year going through a divorce and all.

The rotation is tougher to figure.

1. Jeremy Bonderman

2. Nate Robertson

3. Mike Maroth

4. Wil Ledezma

5. Justin Verlander

that's where it stands now. Such potential, but the Tigers would not feel comfortable going into the season with that. Too hard right now to try and guess who they'll get from somewhere else, but it's almost certain they will. I would guess that Fernando Rodney gets the first shot at closing, with German setting up, and Jamie Walker and Chris Spurling for long relief. Jason Grilli will probably stay with Toledo, but get an outside shot at cracking the bullpen, along with Seay and Creek.

Edited by betterREDthandead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't rue the likely loss of pena. 27 years old, 4-5 years big league experience, never hit above .260. this is a guy whose batting average has actually declined each of the last 3 seasons. he slugs well, but the downside to a guy that makes an out or hits over the wall is not worth the benefit. his obp is also pitiful and saw a decline. also, pena did not turn it around this year: in september, his obp was .287. that's plain pathetic. if we can get something of any worth for pena, we ought to pull the trigger: he's may never hit the ball consistently, and he definitely won't in detroit.

listromania-every indication has said white is gone. i have yet to read that the tigers have any interest. when he's injured close to half of the year, it's a good reason not to rely on him.

also, johnny damon would be a very foolish decision. for a team like the tigers to get him, they will actually have to give him the seven years and insane amount he's asking. that will kill us in the long run, just like the magglio deal will. additionally, damon's spaghetti arm will work wonders with a 420 foot cf wall.

pitching's gonna be a disaster. we needed a guy like jj or byrd to fill a 2-3 spot in the rotation for a reasonable price. it doesn't look like that's going to happen. neither pavano nor vazquez warrant the #2 spot on a rotation, and for that money, they should be in the top spot. our pen sucks.

the most intriguing trade possibility i've heard is dunn for zumaya. big loss for us, but the gain's worth it. a lot of scouts pick zumaya as a bullpen guy, and we already have a closer for the future in kevin whelan. and dunn's would immediately become our best hitter, providing a much needed lefty bat.

as is, we're again not a .500 team. second base is the only position that we can count on as polanco has been a consistently solid hitter that has a great glove. guillen's an injury case, shelton could very likely be a flash in the pan (.224 and .267 ba in august and september, respectively), inge cannot hit for his life (he regressed last season), pudge forgot how to walk last year, magglio couldn't hit for anything in september, monroe's a well below average hitter and fielder, granderson is very unproven, and logan has yet to hit.

our lineup is trash. best case scenario: granderson's as good as we hope, shelton hits like it's always july, guillen stays healthy, pudge returns to form (he went through a divorce last season, so that could be a reason for poor play), and magglio returns to form.

our pitcing is also very suspect: maroth is terribel and getting worse, robertson cannot pitch after the all star break, verlander is a prospect, ledezma sucked in both leagues he was in last year, bonderman couldn't pitch after the asg, colon and grilli are unproven.

our pen sucks: walker is neither a setup man nor a long reliver-he's a specialty lefty with a 4+era. rodney converted 9 of 15 save opportunites for a horrible 60% conversion rate. german and spurling are anti-clutch.

there was no excuse for this team to do nothing so far this offseason. we should have outbid the yankees for farnsworth: a closer's role is very, very important, an farnsworth was the most economical option. we could sign randa or mueller. we needed a reliable starter, and byrd was a much better option than anythign that's left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Leafer

I think we can count on Shelton at first base as well. I liked what I saw in him and think and hope he is the real deal. Granderson looks pretty promising as well.

There is no way that if we have Nook and Monroe at the beggining of next year that Nook gets the nod over Monroe. Unless Nook proves he can hit and use his speed to his advantage, he will be nothing more then a late inning player. Defensive replacement and pinch runner at best.

I honestly thought the tigers were going to be a surprise team last year, and they surprised me by stinking it up. Way too streaky. Are we going to contend this year? Barring huge offseason moves, it doesn't look like it. I do think we can be a .500 team which is likely the first step. We just need better luck in the injury department.

Anyways, I know this is my first post, and it probably isn't wise to "Spam" the message board with a link to another message board, but I'll do it anyways.

Here is the link to a baseball forum I post on:

http://s13.invisionfree.com/Major_League/i...dex.php?act=idx

My user name is DoublePlay and I would love to see other Tiger Fans post there. I think right now I am currently the only one. There are a lot of other great baseball fans though.

BTW, I am in the process of finding pictures for a tiger sig I want to create that will play along with my user name. I want Pics of Allan Trammel and Lou Whitiker turning a double play, and then a pic of Ernie Harwell and the quote "That's two for the Price of one."

I'm sure any tiger fan can appreciate that sig, and hopefully it will look awesome when it's all done. If anyone has any good pics of Tram and/or Sweet Lou turning a DP, could you PM me them?

Thanks, and I hope to see you on the forum. Also I apologize for spamming with my first post, but I did talk baseball in it too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to ESPN, Javier Vazquez declined a trade to the Tigers that would have sent, among others, Curtis Granderson and Joel Zumaya to the D-Backs.

Whiny little punk, I say. Wants out of Arizona so bad he files a formal trade complaint, which I forget the details of, but Arizona has until I think March to trade him, and if they don't he becomes a free agent with some kind of compensation going to the D-Backs. I say, the trade demand should become null and void, or the deadline extended, or some such thing, if you use a clause in your contract to nullify a trade. Add Vazquez to the list of people deserving boos at Comerica next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
According to ESPN, Javier Vazquez declined a trade to the Tigers that would have sent, among others, Curtis Granderson and Joel Zumaya to the D-Backs.

Whiny little punk, I say. Wants out of Arizona so bad he files a formal trade complaint, which I forget the details of, but Arizona has until I think March to trade him, and if they don't he becomes a free agent with some kind of compensation going to the D-Backs. I say, the trade demand should become null and void, or the deadline extended, or some such thing, if you use a clause in your contract to nullify a trade. Add Vazquez to the list of people deserving boos at Comerica next year.

don't be mad at vazquez. if the details are accurate, vazquez just saved us a from a terrible deal.

he's been terrible the last two years. in 2004, his era was near 5. this year, he had a 4.42. nate robertson wasn't that much worse, and nate robertson wasn't pitching in the worst division ever, pitching against pitchers at the plate, and earning ELEVEN MILLION DOLLARS!!!

vazquez is a meh pitcher who ended his prime as a 27-year-old. he's currently overpaid, and to give away our best position prospect and a guy who can tease triple digits on the gun (with control to dominate the minors) would be ridiculously stupid.

in 2007, i would prefer to have zumaya over vazquez on a pitching staff.

i hate dave dombrowski. a big name becomes available, so we must make a ridiculous attempt that will ultimately cripple our team. dombrowski's good trades (for major leaguers): for polanco and guillen, two guys who weren't in huge demand and were overlooked. questionable moves: offering pavano and beltre a ton (saved from ourselves, again), signing magglio to a potentially $100 million deal when there was no competition for his services, signing an old reliver with absolutely zero durability to a two year deal, dumping the farns, letting jj walk, hiring a sub .500 career manager, etc. etc. etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Detroit News reports that Dombrowski adamantly denies the rumor. True or not, I agree with those who say it'd be a bad trade....Vazquez is not an ace, I think he's a solid third or decent second, but not an ace. My point was that if Vazquez demands a trade and then shoots down a perfectly good one, that'd be a pretty spoiled thing to do. And I hate it when players refuse to play in Detroit....even though I can't always blame them for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
According to ESPN, Javier Vazquez declined a trade to the Tigers that would have sent, among others, Curtis Granderson and Joel Zumaya to the D-Backs.

Whiny little punk, I say.  Wants out of Arizona so bad he files a formal trade complaint, which I forget the details of, but Arizona has until I think March to trade him, and if they don't he becomes a free agent with some kind of compensation going to the D-Backs.  I say, the trade demand should become null and void, or the deadline extended, or some such thing, if you use a clause in your contract to nullify a trade.  Add Vazquez to the list of people deserving boos at Comerica next year.

don't be mad at vazquez. if the details are accurate, vazquez just saved us a from a terrible deal.

he's been terrible the last two years. in 2004, his era was near 5. this year, he had a 4.42. nate robertson wasn't that much worse, and nate robertson wasn't pitching in the worst division ever, pitching against pitchers at the plate, and earning ELEVEN MILLION DOLLARS!!!

vazquez is a meh pitcher who ended his prime as a 27-year-old. he's currently overpaid, and to give away our best position prospect and a guy who can tease triple digits on the gun (with control to dominate the minors) would be ridiculously stupid.

in 2007, i would prefer to have zumaya over vazquez on a pitching staff.

i hate dave dombrowski. a big name becomes available, so we must make a ridiculous attempt that will ultimately cripple our team. dombrowski's good trades (for major leaguers): for polanco and guillen, two guys who weren't in huge demand and were overlooked. questionable moves: offering pavano and beltre a ton (saved from ourselves, again), signing magglio to a potentially $100 million deal when there was no competition for his services, signing an old reliver with absolutely zero durability to a two year deal, dumping the farns, letting jj walk, hiring a sub .500 career manager, etc. etc. etc.

I agree that when I heard that yesterday that we might get someone from the Diamondbacks i was worried that Granderson and Zumaya would be great and I hated Javy Vazquez when he was a yankee. I like how you say he was saving us from making a bad trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Report: Tigers sign FA Pitcher Todd Jones who had been with the Marlins to a 2 year deal. sorry no link.

Here's one

Ever since leaving Detroit in the Redman trade in '01, Jones has pitched for the Twins, Rockies, Red Sox, Reds, Phillies, and Marlins. This will be his seventh move in less than five years. I think he can still pitch. He posted some awful numbers with Colorado, but what pitcher doesn't? It's always fun to get a blast from the past back, and I would trust him much more in the ninth inning than German or Rodney....especially Rodney. Wonder what the terms of the contract will be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
do you think granderson won't be traded?? Granderson is as good as gone for this next season.

what basis do you have for that?

just about everything I have read has him platooning with Logan in CF, or being part of a 4-man outfield rotation in some other manner.

"Dombrowski repeated Tuesday he is pleased with the Tigers' position players heading into 2006, an overview that would include Granderson, who stands to split time next season in center field and left field.

Granderson, 24, is a left-hander hitter -- important in a heavily right-handed lineup -- and has the defensive skills necessary to cover Comerica Park's prairies in left and center field."

from a det news article by lynn henning. inidcations are that granderson stays, so why do you say so confidently that he's traded? because every team wants to trade away their top positional prospect?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jones: jury's out until i see the money involved. the tigers needed to get anohter bullpen arm with the ability to close: it's plain too risky to have rodney as the de facto closer. though jones was quite bad for all but one of the last 4 or so years, he is better than nothing. hopefully rodney will find the slider and develop the confidence needed to take that role.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$11 million for Todd Jones. Too much, way too much, I was thinking more along the lines of $5-6 million, tops. oh well, at least they didn't shell out $47 million to B.J. Ryan. But Fernando Rodney blew 4 of 13 save chances last year, so it was too risky to go into spring training with him penciled in for the ninth inning.

Tigers also decline to offer arbitration to Rondell White, Jason Johnson, Bobby Higginson, and Fernando Vina, ending their stay in Detroit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Tigers overpaid for Jones, but so far everyone is overpaying this offseason. Guess that means beers at Comerica are going up in price wink.gif

I too would like to see some indication that Granderson will be gone after next year. The only way I see that happening is if A: Nook Logan learns to hit consistantly AND B: The Tigers are in serious contention for the playoffs and need to make a deal for an ace, or whatever it is they need. Since I don't see both of these things happening next year, I don't think Granderson is leaving the Tigers until he becomes a free agent and the Yankees offer him 12 billion dollars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for 5.5 per, jones isn't bad. not great, but not atrocious. good signing.

if the rogers deal is on, i'm upset ("As of Wednesday, the Tigers' interest in Rogers had cooled."--from freep today). he's one of my least favorite players. aside from attitude, here's why we should not have given/give rogers a TWO YEAR DEAL worth 8 million per:

he's 41. unless you're randy johnson, you do not get a two year deal as a 41-year old starter. plain should not happen.

in two of the last three seasons, his era has been 4.57 or above.

how about how rogers was down the stretch: 5.25 era in august, 4.74 era with 50 hits and 12 walks in 38 innings in september.

for the year, he has a 1.32 whip. bonderman, robertson, and maroth are all within .05 of that.

2 years, 16 million dollars.

i hate dave dombrowski. there is absolutely zero excuse for him having a job.

keeping johnson on a 1-year abritrated deal would have cost have as much per year, would not come back to kill us in 2007, and wouldn't have been terribly worse (rogers is better, than jj, no question) all things considered (2-years, cash, age).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh. This Kenny Rogers deal WILL bite the Tigers in the ass. The second year should have been a team option. He's 41 for crying out loud, and now they're shelling out $8 million a year? Let's hope this one falls apart.

EDIT: prelude to a trade? He's a similar pitcher to Maroth and Robertson: finesse lefty. Having a lot of lefties plays to Comerica Park's strengths because it causes the opposition to load the lineup with right-handers, so I figure that Rogers is either supposed to be a stopgap until Verlander and/or Zumaya is ready (as suggested by MLB.com) or an attempt to load the rotation with southpaws.

Edited by betterREDthandead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like the rotation as of now shakes out like this:

1. Bonderman

2. Maroth

3. Rogers

4. Robertson

5. Whoever distinguishes themself in spring training.

The order is pretty likely to change too. Ledezma, Verlander, Zumaya, Grilli, and Colon (not Bartolo...we wish) will get their shot at that fifth spot. All but Verlander are bullpen candidates if they lose out...Verlander will simply pitch in Toledo.

Jones will be the anointed closer. Rodney and German will be better off without the pressure of the ninth inning. Walker will continue to be steady, as will Spurling, so there isn't a lot of room in the 'pen for the losers of the rotation competition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this