Draper to Toronto For Allison?

[Grind Line 33 0]

Why does this trade makes sense?

1. Detroit has other excellent penalty killers. Franzen, Maltby, Cleary, Zetterberg have all been impressive defensively this year. Draper's marketability is at its highest right now but I can see it dropping quickly in a short time. He won't be winning the Selke again this year.

Yes, they do have other penalty killers who have done well but you can't just replace chemistry like Maltby and Draper have. Also, Draper eats up more minutes short-handed than any other forward on the team. While other guys can get the job done I would bet good money that if you put a lot of them out there for as many minutes as Draper takes currently that the PK percentage would suffer.

2. New rules haven't helped Draper. His speed and his play down low in the offensive zone cycling, killing penalty time etc. has always been a huge plus for him. But with less clutching and grabbing, I haven't seen him take advantage of it. Its like he doesn't know how to bring his game into the new NHL.

Have you watched the last 3 or 4 games? I might have agreed with you to a point earlier this year (he did take a lot longer to adjust than I thought he would) but he has really gotten it going in the last few games.

3. Allison is making 1.5 mill. and is starting to really turn it on...his point production has been very good as of late.

He should only make $1.5 million. We're talking about a guy who hadn't played since early in the 2002-03 season. Toronto took something of a gamble on him and so far it's paying off. But he's an offensive center so he's doing what he's supposed to do by scoring goals. Who would you suggest moving from one of the top 2 lines to the checking line to make room for Allison in a scoring role? Or you're suggesting he center the checking line? No reason at all to make that move. He would be at least two significant steps down from Draper defensively. That is certainly not worth a differene of only $628,000.

4. Detroit would benefit by adding his size to the line-up. Its one thing they lack. Besides Shanny and Lang, there are not too many other big guys at forward. He is big, gritty and hard to knock off the puck. Detroit is very good team when they get pressure to the net, when they don't, they aren't. He would be a perfect fit. Also, with Lang hurt and Yzerman playing some center in his absence, we get a guy who can step in to play 2nd and 3rd line center. Above anything else, you now have a 3rd line scoring threat opponents have to watch. Centers are supposed to make plays and make other players around them better which he will do. Draper hasn't been a threat all year.

Allison is big but he doesn't play a big man's game. And he may very well be one hard hit away from leaving the game for good with his concussion history. And again, have you watched the last 3 or 4 games? The Maltby/Draper/Franzen line has dominated the play every time they've been on the ice. The scoring will come if they keep playing that way, which they should as long as Babcock leaves them alone and lets them stay together.

5. With Sundin back in Toronto's line up and Wellwood/Lindros playing well, they have a surplus at center and need a player with Draper's expertise on PK.

Well, trading a center for a center doesn't help their surplus at all. And Draper is far better at center than on the wing. I'm sure he would help their PK. He'd help anybody's. But losing him would hurt the Wings' PK more than gaining Allison would help the Wings' offense, I think. Especially if you figure Allison would play 3rd line minutes straight up (no PK or PP time).

6. He is from the Toronto area, I believe his wife and kids still live there. Also, Detroit will not play Toronto this year unless they meet in the Cup Final.

Draper is from TO, yes, but his wife and children live with him here. Always have. Plus, Draper was asked in 2004 when he re-signed with Detroit why he didn't sign "at home". He replied that he did sign at home. He considers Detroit his home now because he's been here for more than 10 years, got married here, became a father here, and so on. According to him, Toronto is just his summer home now.

Two Cons:

1. Special teams play a huge role in today's NHL. How would losing Draper impact our PK.

Indeed, I think it would impact it quite adversely.

2. I believe Allison becomes a free agent next year again (can be seen as a pro as well).

I'm sure the people who aren't happy with Draper's play and salary would consider this a pro as well as those who are hollering so loudly for a youth movement. However, I think this would be one of the biggest knocks against this sort of trade. Draper is locked up for two more seasons after this one and it's obvious that the Wings wanted it this way. He is a team leader and a lot of the other veteran leaders will be gone after this year or next. Someone from the current team core needs to remain to guide the youngsters in their first few seasons.

You also fail to consider the potential ramifactions as far as team chemistry. Draper is an immensely popular guy in the dressing room. He's very vocal and outgoing. He, along with Maltby and Yzerman, are the real heart and soul guys on this team. Trading him away would probably make a lot of the guys very unhappy.

Not to mention his no-trade clause. Holland would have to ask him to waive it and that is not going to happen outside of a truly desperate situation. Illitch and Holland are loyal (sometimes to a fault) to the players that have brought the Wings success in the past. Things would have to be looking very grave indeed for the Wings before they would go to one of the most popular guys in the room, a fan favorite, one of the only guys who gives his all every single night and has for them for 10 years, and and ask him to waive his no-trade. Not going to happen.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Grind Line 33

[MacK_Attack 108]

Allison's base salary is $1.5, with bonuses, he'll be around $3 million.

[Grind_Lines_#1_Fan 0]

Draper is not all star material every year and we got him for ONE DOLLAR. He is here to stay. what the heck were you thinking buddy.

[Barnes52 0]

Allison's base salary is $1.5, with bonuses, he'll be around $3 million.

But the bonuses don't count against the cap, correct?

[Grind Line 33 0]

But the bonuses don't count against the cap, correct?

I believe bonuses count against the cap going forward. His cap number for their salary consideration this season is the base $1.5 million. Then if f they have to pay him $1.5 million in bonuses he gets the money this year but it comes out of next season's cap number.

But I may be mistaken.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Grind Line 33

[MacK_Attack 108]

But the bonuses don't count against the cap, correct?

Bonuses do count against the cap, and if the bonuses put you over the cap, then whatever amount you're over comes out of your cap for the next season.

[Barnes52 0]

I thought that for players over a certain age (35?) that bonuses didn't count against the cap....I could be wrong

[norrisnick 1]

I thought that for players over a certain age (35?) that bonuses didn't count against the cap....I could be wrong

Nope, certain players (entry level, older players, and previously injured players) are the only ones eligible for incentives. They still count.

peace

[eva unit zero 271]

You are all partially right.

Bonuses do not count against the cap to a point--there is a bonuses cap set at 7.5% of the salary cap. 2.925 million dollars.

Bonuses that are actually paid out hit on the next season's cap number. Bonuses that exceed the bonus cap affect the normal cap.

This is why the Wings wouldn't have been able to pick up Bondra the way the Thrasher's did--they got him for about 500k with 2.9m in bonuses. The Wings already had 750k in bonuses going to Yzerman, so 2.175 of Bondra's bonus would be fine, but there would be 725k that would hit the cap directly, effectively making Bondra on a 1.225 base for the cap.

[Shredded Red 0]

Alright! Who's been sniffing glue through a crazy straw again!

This trade is not only bad...for both teams. But it's pointless as well.

[eva unit zero 271]

Alright! Who's been sniffing glue through a crazy straw again!

This trade is not only bad...for both teams. But it's pointless as well.

How about this:

There are two things the Wings need;

A physical, defensively skilled defenseman

A physical scoring forward.

Beyond that, the Wings are pretty solid.

Jason Allison is neither of those things, especially if he's not on a scoring line. What he IS is a big strong playmaker, one of the best playmakers in the league. We don't need playmakers.

If we were to trade Draper, I would want to pick up a the physical defenseman as we don't know if Jiri will be back or when Kronwall will be back.

I might be more inclined to trade Maltby though...Maltby brings many of the same thigns Draper does, but Draper plays all three forward positions, is EXCELLENT on faceoffs, and is a team leader. We don't have a checking center who is stellar on faceoffs like Draper...Franzen is the only other talented defensive forward we have who even has played center, and he is TERRIBLE on faceoffs because he is a natural winger.

The question is...what teams are looking for/can afford a defensive/pk center who makes 2.2 million AND have the kind of defenseman we need?

Not many.

How about this one....Kirk Maltby and Andreas Lilja to LA for Mattias Norstrom?

Seems fair enough.

[WindsorPlaya 0]

Good points Grind Line 33 and I truthfully forgot about his bonuses whoever brought that up.

Point is this...for a line that is suppost to be playing great and shutting down scoring lines, where the hell were they last night. For Draper to play as much time as he does and to only have 4 points is pathetic...he's on pace for 10 points with a plus/minus of -16. He plays center, he is suppost to make other players around him better...he hasn't done it in my opinion which is evident in the points. An Allison, Franzen, Maltby line would look a lot more intimidating on the ice.

Last night's game is proof that offense plays a larger role than defence. If you can't score you will not win because your opposition will have too many chances.

I think that a lot of people are under valueing Allison as a player and what he can bring to the table. In 517 games in the NHL he has 143 goals and 312 assists for 455 points. He is 2nd on the Leaf's in scoring this year with 30 points and would be 5th on our roster. I would say the guy isn't exactly a chump stain out there.

He has played center on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd lines all year depending who was hurt or hot at the time so its not like he can't adjust to play a lesser role and still make an impact.

I also caution hanging my hat on the young players just yet, even though they have all played surpisingly well (Williams etc.), you have to do it year after year to be classified as a solid hockey player.

[WindsorPlaya 0]

Good points Grind Line 33 and I truthfully forgot about his bonuses whoever brought that up.

Point is this...for a line that is suppost to be playing great and shutting down scoring lines, where the hell were they last night. For Draper to play as much time as he does and to only have 4 points is pathetic...he's on pace for 10 points with a plus/minus of -16. He plays center, he is suppost to make other players around him better...he hasn't done it in my opinion which is evident in the points. An Allison, Franzen, Maltby line would look a lot more intimidating on the ice.

Last night's game is proof that offense plays a larger role than defence. If you can't score you will not win because your opposition will have too many chances.

I think that a lot of people are under valueing Allison as a player and what he can bring to the table. In 517 games in the NHL he has 143 goals and 312 assists for 455 points. He is 2nd on the Leaf's in scoring this year with 30 points and would be 5th on our roster. I would say the guy isn't exactly a chump stain out there.

He has played center on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd lines all year depending who was hurt or hot at the time so its not like he can't adjust to play a lesser role and still make an impact.

I also caution hanging my hat on the young players just yet, even though they have all played surpisingly well (Williams etc.), you have to do it year after year to be classified as a solid hockey player.

[Barnes52 0]

My issue with Allison is his lack of wheels and his injury issues, but his size and skill are fine. I'd rather trade him for Lang

[Grind Line 33 0]

Point is this...for a line that is suppost to be playing great and shutting down scoring lines, where the hell were they last night.

Where were they? How about even on +/- for the night? Which is far more than you can say for Holmstrom (-1), Samuelsson (-2), Williams (-3), and Zetterberg (-4).

For Draper to play as much time as he does and to only have 4 points is pathetic...he's on pace for 10 points with a plus/minus of -16. He plays center, he is suppost to make other players around him better...he hasn't done it in my opinion which is evident in the points.

Again, are you watching the games or are you just staring at the stat sheets? By your fixation on points, it seems like stats are all you're looking at. Take a good look at that line in action in recent games and forget about the points for a moment. You can't tell me that isn't a line that is playing well.

An Allison, Franzen, Maltby line would look a lot more intimidating on the ice.

Intimidating how? Offensively, maybe. Defensively? Not by a long shot. I can't picture opposing coaches telling their young stars "When you see Allison's line come on, get off the ice" the way they do with Draper.

Last night's game is proof that offense plays a larger role than defence. If you can't score you will not win because your opposition will have too many chances.

When you score 6 goals and lose a game the problem is not the offense.

I think that a lot of people are under valueing Allison as a player and what he can bring to the table. In 517 games in the NHL he has 143 goals and 312 assists for  455 points. He is 2nd on the Leaf's in scoring this year with 30 points and would be 5th on our roster. I would say the guy isn't exactly a chump stain out there.

Not saying he is. But he is not what the Wings need right now (a physical defenseman or a scoring winger).

He has played center on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd lines all year depending who was hurt or hot at the time so its not like he can't adjust to play a lesser role and still make an impact.

So you would have our third line center get better offensively (which the team doesn't really need), worse defensively (which the team needs to improve at instead), and cost the team $3 million instead of $2.2 million. Does not sound appealing to me.

Edited December 14, 2005 by Grind Line 33

[Grind Line 33 0]

My issue with Allison is his lack of wheels and his injury issues, but his size and skill are fine. I'd rather trade him for Lang

That I could get on board with. Especially seeing as it would clear up a little cap space.

[MacK_Attack 108]

With Lindros having injury issues right now, the Leafs won't be shopping Allison.

[grigsfan 0]

One word: Concussed

Why risk it? We have a realiable work horse that was never a 30 goal scorer until last season(Fluke). He is one of the best players in the league on the defensive side of the puck. Allison is/was a great player but hes a center, one we don't need.

[MacK_Attack 108]

One word: Concussed

Allison never had a concussion.

[Satrebil 0]

Draper is worth far less than his nearly $2.2 million USD salary. However, if the Red Wings are going to trade Kris Draper, let us hope that it would be for a defenseman, not an oft-injured centerman.

[WindsorPlaya 0]

Ya, I thought his injury problems were due to a bad back.

Grind Line 33, why not have the best of both worlds...an offensive center with 2 excellent defensive forwards to play with who have been contributing more on offense than Drapes.

I may be fixated on points but from your username it certainly looks like you are fixated on Draper's nut sack.

And points do tell a lot about how a player is playing...doesn't tell everything but I always see the Detroit fans looking at stats come playoff time and ripping Dats a new ass for not showing up.

[eva unit zero 271]

Ya, I thought his injury problems were due to a bad back.

Grind Line 33, why not have the best of both worlds...an offensive center with 2 excellent defensive forwards to play with who have been contributing more on offense than Drapes.

I may be fixated on points but from your username it certainly looks like you are fixated on Draper's nut sack.

And points do tell a lot about how a player is playing...doesn't tell everything but I always see the Detroit fans looking at stats come playoff time and ripping Dats a new ass for not showing up.

Dats is an offensive forward who can't play defense. Points are an easy way to tell if he is being effective.

Draper is a defensive forward who is limited in offensive ability. points don't help.

[bringback91 2]

Ya, I thought his injury problems were due to a bad back.

Grind Line 33, why not have the best of both worlds...an offensive center with 2 excellent defensive forwards to play with who have been contributing more on offense than Drapes.

I may be fixated on points but from your username it certainly looks like you are fixated on Draper's nut sack.

And points do tell a lot about how a player is playing...doesn't tell everything but I always see the Detroit fans looking at stats come playoff time and ripping Dats a new ass for not showing up.

Wow, some real "perals of wisdom" in that post. Stats don't always reflect how well someone is doing what the coach asks of him. Is leading the team in playoff assists "not showing up"?

[WindsorPlaya 0]

bringback91,

you mis-interpreted what I was saying. I have no problem with the way Dats played in the playoffs in 03/04. The point I was trying to make was that even though stats don't tell everything about how a player is playing, its funny to see Detroit fans look at the stats sheet come playoff time. I remember hearing so many fans ripping on Dats because he wasn't putting the puck in the net enough during those playoffs.

The whole stats comment is in response to Grind Line 33's comment about me being fixated on stats.

[WindsorPlaya 0]

bringback91,

you mis-interpreted what I was saying. I have no problem with the way Dats played in the playoffs in 03/04. The point I was trying to make was that even though stats don't tell everything about how a player is playing, its funny to see Detroit fans look at the stats sheet come playoff time. I remember hearing so many fans ripping on Dats because he wasn't putting the puck in the net enough during those playoffs.

The whole stats comment is in response to Grind Line 33's comment about me being fixated on stats.