Grigs Getting Better!

[eva unit zero 271]

What gets me about this list is Hollands faith in players like Ko-puke-y. Those who don't play with any form of heart except when their going from one contract to the next. Its an embrassment to the game and to so many players who work year after year to get where they are. Its hard for me to watch guys him Kopocky get a decent playing time night after night in GR when there are far better prospects who are far more deserving.

Kopecky is 5th in goals, 6th in assists, and 6th in points on Grand Rapids, is one of the few physical forwards o nthe team, and leads the team in plus-minus and is the second biggest player on the team this season (behind recent signing Ryan Jorde, who has played three games and is no longer on the active roster)

Kinda hard to say he doesn't deserve the playing time he's gotten.

[Saran 1]

Uhhh isnt this thread about GRIGS!!!!!!! Stay on topic ppl

[Barnes52 0]

Grigs is going to be great, and I like the fact that he's a bit gritty, but I'd rather leave the "dirty work" to guys like Bootland

[Heaton 1]

Grigs is going to be great, and I like the fact that he's a bit gritty, but I'd rather leave the "dirty work" to guys like Bootland

When are you changing your name to Bootland27?

[J-Swift 0]

I am not a fan of Kopecky by any stretch of the imagination, but he was given one last chance with this organization, and  he stepped up his game significantly. I'm not too happy about him only really putting an effort in this season, but isn't it better than him not playing well at all? I don't know that Tomas has the skills to be a scoring line player, so he'll have to develop into a checking role. He could easily make it on the fourth line one day.

I know these are only the opinions of Red Wings' Central, but I'm glad to see them talking about certain prospects in such high regard, more specifically, Abdelkader, Kindl, and Quincey.

I have been very pessimistic and somewhat critical about Justin Abdelkader, but it's nice to see him getting some praise. In my mind, Justin's still probably going to be a third/fourth line checker, but Matthew Wuest seems to have more faith in him, and though Wuest is just a fan like I am, it'd be kinda stupid of me to think I know more about Wings' prospects than he does.

It's also nice to see Kindl in the top five, and I'm glad to see how highly regarded he is. Jakub was a risky first round pick, but has made significant improvement this season, and if given time, he could develop into a top four defenceman.

Kyle Quincey is another interesting prospect, and IMO, is one of the most underrated in the entire system. He's not a future Norris-trophy winner, but, according to everything I've read, he's been absolutely solid in GR and has adapted nicely to the pro game. There was even a nice little article about him in The Hockey News mentioning how impressive he's been as a rookie d-man. Kyle's not the punishing defenceman oh so many of us here would like, but he's at least as physical as anyone on our blueline right now.

Pardon my comments..but you have paid very little attention to our prospects.

Kopecky has FAR more chance at being a scoring type player than a fourth liner. His skills have always been there, it's the effort and physical play that wasn't always there. And as we all know, the fourth line guys are the ones who need to be putting out the effort and physical play every night because they AREN'T the ones doing the scoring. Of course it's ideal that everyone is putting in effort and physical play, but if anyone is allowed to slide on physical play it would be the scorers.

Kindl was NOT a risky pick. He was rated a top five pick overall in the draft going into 04-05. He had a disappointing season due in large part to culture shock and a lack of ice time, and that cause his stock to slip. The Wings felt they got a steal in getting him, and he proved them right. With the graduation of Andre Benoit to the AHL, Kindl got a huge increase in ice time and has become maybe the best defenseman in the OHL, and is outshining every other defenseman on the Rangers by a large margin, including two other first round picks (2004 #10 overall Boris Valabik and 2005 #22 overall Matt Lashoff)

I agree Quincey should be a solid top-four defenseman.

Kopecky is not a scorer. A guy who fails to even come close to putting up a point-per-game in his fourth year in the AHL has no place on our top two lines. He's not a checker, and he's not a scorer, what does that make him? I naturally assumed he'd be an energy line player if he could put forth the effort he has so far this season in GR. We clearly disagree on this subject, but last I checked, I'm entitled to my opinion.

I understand the disagreement on Kopecky, Eva, you have some valid points. But to say Kindl is not a risky prospect doesn't make any sense. You're right, he has looked excellent this season, but when he was first drafted, I wasn't so sure. By all accounts, he has the natural ability to be a top pairing d-man, but hasn't put it together yet. He could be a stud, or a dud. That is the definition of a risky prospect. I'm not the only one who thinks this; at least Bob McKenzie agrees with me anyway: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/draft/feature.asp?fid=6645

(Describing Kindl) He's the type of player who could go as many as 10 spots higher or 10 spots lower.

I'm glad we agree on Quincey. I really like him.

We're allowed to disagree Eva, but to say I don't pay attention to our prospects is downright stupid. I read any and every single article I can about our system, and I'm consistently checking CHL and AHL boxscores; I follow prospects as closely as I do the Wings themselves.

[Barnes52 0]

When are you changing your name to Bootland27?

Don't know if I can...but feel free to call me that

[J-Swift 0]

I thought I might add to my previous post after I did a little more reading. Here is a recent article on Kopecky over at Red Wings Central: Kopecky 'a lot stronger' and 'a lot more physical' this season ...

“We’ve talked numerous times that if we get some injuries, we’d like to bring him up,� said Red Wings assistant GM Jim Nill. “He’s gotten a lot stronger, he’s a lot more physical, and with the new CBA (collective bargaining agreement), you need to build your fourth line around those types of guys.�

But I guess Jim Nill "has paid very little attention to our prospects", right Eva?

[EstonianWingsFan#1 0]

I think Grigorenko needs NHL time to get to 100% again. He will stay forever on this "85 - 90% level" in Russia.

[Seth 0]

Kopecky is 5th in goals, 6th in assists, and 6th in points on Grand Rapids, is one of the few physical forwards o nthe team, and leads the team in plus-minus and is the second biggest player on the team this season (behind recent signing Ryan Jorde, who has played three games and is no longer on the active roster)

Kinda hard to say he doesn't deserve the playing time he's gotten.

Your right Eva he's a star in the making, next Bert or Jagr my bad.

"Kinda hard to say he doesn't deserve the playing time he's gotten."

How did he do before this year bub, or the year before that? How many games did he go scoreless? How many scouts and coachs belittled him for his inconsistant play? I guess myself and all those other people are wrong though, your clearly the expert here.

Edited January 13, 2006 by Seth

[Guest Joey Kocur 26]

has bootland won a fight this season?

I know he isnt all that big, and i dont think he posseses the skills of a heavyweight, even by echl standards. Good to see he can play though. 20 years ago, most teams had 4-5 guys who were decent players and decent scrappers. Im looking foward to the new breed of heavyweight due in the next 10 years or so, the one that can play and fight. Finally we can say goodbye to our girly 4th "checking" line.

[TimeBinder 28]

Edited February 10, 2006 by TimeBinder

[Hatcher#2 13]

has bootland won a fight this season?

I know he isnt all that big, and i dont think he posseses the skills of a heavyweight, even by echl standards. Good to see he can play though. 20 years ago, most teams had 4-5 guys who were decent players and decent scrappers. Im looking foward to the new breed of heavyweight due in the next 10 years or so, the one that can play and fight. Finally we can say goodbye to our girly 4th "checking" line.

Bootland has had 14 fights this year he has a record of 9-1-4. His only loss has come from Brandon Sudgen and he shouldn't really have been fighting him anyway if the Griffins had a true heavy at the time. He has an impressive card this year aswell.

Doug Murray- Win

Garth Murray- Draw

Brandon Prust- Win

Cam Severson-Draw

Cam Cunning- Draw

Clayton Stoner- Win

Ole-Kristian Tollefsen- Win

Brandon Sugden- Loss

Jean-Francois Jacques- Win

Jimmy Roy-Win

Johnathan Aitken x2 Win-Win

Brad Staubitz- Draw

Jean-Philippe Cote- Win

I too am looking forward to the new breed of enforcer who can play, hopefully

Robin BigSnake is the Wings enforcer that can play.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Hatcher#2

[Barnes52 0]

has bootland won a fight this season?

I know he isnt all that big, and i dont think he posseses the skills of a heavyweight, even by echl standards. Good to see he can play though. 20 years ago, most teams had 4-5 guys who were decent players and decent scrappers. Im looking foward to the new breed of heavyweight due in the next 10 years or so, the one that can play and fight. Finally we can say goodbye to our girly 4th "checking" line.

Bootland has had 14 fights this year he has a record of 9-1-4. His only loss has come from Brandon Sudgen and he shouldn't really have been fighting him anyway if the Griffins had a true heavy at the time. He has an impressive card this year aswell.

Doug Murray- Win

Garth Murray- Draw

Brandon Prust- Win

Cam Severson-Draw

Cam Cunning- Draw

Clayton Stoner- Win

Ole-Kristian Tollefsen- Win

Brandon Sugden- Loss

Jean-Francois Jacques- Win

Jimmy Roy-Win

Johnathan Aitken x2 Win-Win

Brad Staubitz- Draw

Jean-Philippe Cote- Win

I too am looking forward to the new breed of enforcer who can play, hopefully

Robin BigSnake is the Wings enforcer that can play.

Plus he wanted to go with Billy Tibbetts who's a big boy in the Chicago game. FRrom what I heard, Tibbetts wanted no part of him.

[Hatcher#2 13]

You are correct Barnesy, Tibbets turtled big time on Bootland. The night after that Bootland tried to get Rick Berry from Milwaukee to go but he declined aswell.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

You are correct Barnesy, Tibbets turtled big time on Bootland. The night after that Bootland tried to get Rick Berry from Milwaukee to go but he declined aswell.

Sounds like Bootland has regained his confidence. I'd really like to give him a try with the big club now.

[Hatcher#2 13]

Sounds like Bootland has regained his confidence. I'd really like to give him a try with the big club now.

The big thing that was holding Bootland back was his skating but he worked real hard in the offseason and he has greatly improved his skating, i think the improvement in his skating has played a big part in his numbers being up this year aswell.

Edited January 17, 2006 by Hatcher#2

[TNBT 3]

Regarding Bootland, I know it's only a video game, but I added him to my 3rd line along with Draper and Maltby in my NHL 2006 dynasty, and he added an entirely new dimension. The physical play increased, the defensive capacity of the line went up, the energy level skyrocketed and Bootland was all over the ice. It's not real life, but I think he could have a similar effect in real life. Yzerman isn't really holding up that well and Babcock doesn't seem to have the faith in him to play him for extended periods, so perhaps Bootland could bring a new lease of life to our Grind Line and give it a new spark?

As for Kopecky, I must agree that it really is annoying to see someone with so much talent and size only perform when they're due for a new contract, but it is good to see him finally looking like putting it all together. I'd be interested in signing him for another 1 or 2 year contract after this season and see if he can keep developing, as I'm sure we all hope he will. It will be tempting to look at all his potential and size and hand out a long-term deal, but that is a risk that Holland can't afford to take.

Quincey is a guy who I am really looking forward to seeing in the next season or two. He's not the monster hitter that would make us all drool at the prospect of seeing them in a Wings uniform, but he has some nice size, isn't shy about using it and is just a solid player. He's still developing so he could become even more of a physical presence in the future, but even if he doesn't, he's still one of those guys who you can feel comfortable and secure about having him back in your own zone.

As for the original point of this thread, Grigorenko, I'm as excited about seeing him here as I have been about any other European player. Everything I read and hear about this guy just gets me excited about seeing what he can bring to the table. When you have a guy who was once considered a comparable prospect with Ilya Kovalchuk, then you have to be happy to have him in your system. It would be great if he was a bit bigger, but he's still built like a tank and has some nice wheels. Paired with guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hudler and Filpulla, he's going to bring some excitement to the team.

[eva unit zero 271]

I am not a fan of Kopecky by any stretch of the imagination, but he was given one last chance with this organization, and  he stepped up his game significantly. I'm not too happy about him only really putting an effort in this season, but isn't it better than him not playing well at all? I don't know that Tomas has the skills to be a scoring line player, so he'll have to develop into a checking role. He could easily make it on the fourth line one day.

I know these are only the opinions of Red Wings' Central, but I'm glad to see them talking about certain prospects in such high regard, more specifically, Abdelkader, Kindl, and Quincey.

I have been very pessimistic and somewhat critical about Justin Abdelkader, but it's nice to see him getting some praise. In my mind, Justin's still probably going to be a third/fourth line checker, but Matthew Wuest seems to have more faith in him, and though Wuest is just a fan like I am, it'd be kinda stupid of me to think I know more about Wings' prospects than he does.

It's also nice to see Kindl in the top five, and I'm glad to see how highly regarded he is. Jakub was a risky first round pick, but has made significant improvement this season, and if given time, he could develop into a top four defenceman.

Kyle Quincey is another interesting prospect, and IMO, is one of the most underrated in the entire system. He's not a future Norris-trophy winner, but, according to everything I've read, he's been absolutely solid in GR and has adapted nicely to the pro game. There was even a nice little article about him in The Hockey News mentioning how impressive he's been as a rookie d-man. Kyle's not the punishing defenceman oh so many of us here would like, but he's at least as physical as anyone on our blueline right now.

Pardon my comments..but you have paid very little attention to our prospects.

Kopecky has FAR more chance at being a scoring type player than a fourth liner. His skills have always been there, it's the effort and physical play that wasn't always there. And as we all know, the fourth line guys are the ones who need to be putting out the effort and physical play every night because they AREN'T the ones doing the scoring. Of course it's ideal that everyone is putting in effort and physical play, but if anyone is allowed to slide on physical play it would be the scorers.

Kindl was NOT a risky pick. He was rated a top five pick overall in the draft going into 04-05. He had a disappointing season due in large part to culture shock and a lack of ice time, and that cause his stock to slip. The Wings felt they got a steal in getting him, and he proved them right. With the graduation of Andre Benoit to the AHL, Kindl got a huge increase in ice time and has become maybe the best defenseman in the OHL, and is outshining every other defenseman on the Rangers by a large margin, including two other first round picks (2004 #10 overall Boris Valabik and 2005 #22 overall Matt Lashoff)

I agree Quincey should be a solid top-four defenseman.

Kopecky is not a scorer. A guy who fails to even come close to putting up a point-per-game in his fourth year in the AHL has no place on our top two lines. He's not a checker, and he's not a scorer, what does that make him? I naturally assumed he'd be an energy line player if he could put forth the effort he has so far this season in GR. We clearly disagree on this subject, but last I checked, I'm entitled to my opinion.

I understand the disagreement on Kopecky, Eva, you have some valid points. But to say Kindl is not a risky prospect doesn't make any sense. You're right, he has looked excellent this season, but when he was first drafted, I wasn't so sure. By all accounts, he has the natural ability to be a top pairing d-man, but hasn't put it together yet. He could be a stud, or a dud. That is the definition of a risky prospect. I'm not the only one who thinks this; at least Bob McKenzie agrees with me anyway: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/draft/feature.asp?fid=6645

I'm glad we agree on Quincey. I really like him.

We're allowed to disagree Eva, but to say I don't pay attention to our prospects is downright stupid. I read any and every single article I can about our system, and I'm consistently checking CHL and AHL boxscores; I follow prospects as closely as I do the Wings themselves.

Kopecky has put up solid numbers at every level he has played. The last couple seasons in the AHL he was injury plagued and couldn't get a groove going. He had excellent numbers his rookie year. And as I said... the knock on him is that he DOESN'T always bring the energy... which means he's LEAST properly suited to being an 'energy' player.

Kindl was only a risky pick if you believe a 17 year old kid playing a depth role as an OHL rookie and not putting up huge numbers means he might not be that good, even though he has shown his ability in the past.

[J-Swift 0]

Kopecky  has put up solid numbers at every level he has played. The last couple seasons in the AHL he was injury plagued and couldn't get a groove going. He had excellent numbers his rookie year. And as I said... the knock on him is that he DOESN'T always bring the energy... which means he's LEAST properly suited to being an 'energy' player.

Kindl was only a risky pick if you believe a 17 year old kid playing a depth role as an OHL rookie and not putting up huge numbers means he might not be that good, even though he has shown his ability in the past.

As I stated before Eva, Jim Nill disagrees with you: Kopecky 'a lot stronger' and 'a lot more physical' this season ...

“We’ve talked numerous times that if we get some injuries, we’d like to bring him up,� said Red Wings assistant GM Jim Nill. “He’s gotten a lot stronger, he’s a lot more physical, and with the new CBA (collective bargaining agreement), you need to build your fourth line around those types of guys.�

Injuries or not, Kopecky is almost 24 and still isn't a point-per-game player at the AHL level. I'm not saying he's definitely a fourth line player, however, he certainly isn't a scoring line player either.

And as for Kindl, you basically described perfectly why he is a risky pick. He had been noted as a possible top five pick in his draft year while he was in the Czech Republic. But the guy was 69th in defensive scoring in the OHL. He had showed definite potential but it was uncertain whether he could apply his skills to the NA game given his performance last season. Is that not what you would call a risk? I'm not saying it was a bad pick, Kindl has shown excellent progress this year and I think it was smart of the Wings to pick him up, but at the time, many analysts and scouts were a little unsure of whether he'd develop or not.

[theman19 47]

i think guys like bootland will get a shot next year when we have a serious log jam of ufa's. I don't think we can keep all our guys. Personally i'd like to see him play, not because we need an enforcer but it'd be nice to have a d-mac like player again.

[Seth 0]

I expect to see Booter along with Grigs and Quincy as regulars for the Wings. All 3 have what ti takes and have earned it. Quincy is more than ready and Grigs and Booter have shown they have what it takes.

[Mighty Wings 0]

I expect to see Booter along with Grigs and Quincy as regulars for the Wings. All 3 have what ti takes and have earned it. Quincy is more than ready and Grigs and Booter have shown they have what it takes.

I don't see how bootland will crack the everyday lineup, if someone like kopecky, filppula or hudler won't likely make it. Yzerman will retire. There will be just 1 open spot next year, Samuelsson's havin a terrific year, I don't see how kenny doesn't re-sign him, williams has also played fairly well probably will be back, shanahan will also be back. Cleary has also played well in his role. With that said, grigs will take the only spot, and quincey will prob also make the team as a 5th or 6th def.

[eva unit zero 271]

I don't see how bootland will crack the everyday lineup, if someone like kopecky, filppula or hudler won't likely make it. Yzerman will retire. There will be just 1 open spot next year, Samuelsson's havin a terrific year, I don't see how kenny doesn't re-sign him, williams has also played fairly well probably will be back, shanahan will also be back. Cleary has also played well in his role. With that said, grigs will take the only spot, and quincey will prob also make the team as a 5th or 6th def.

There will be two spots open, unless Yzerman sticks around or Mowers is retained.

Grigorenko will take one of those spots.

The other will likely go to Hudler.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Anyone else see this?

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../602090326/1128

_________________________________________________________

From: v palmer

City: Brooklyn, N.Y.

A friend from Latvia … told me that (Wings prospect) Igor Grigorenko is definitely not the same player he was before car accident. He described him as a very average player, even for Russian league standards, and that he is definitely not NHL star material anymore. … Same friend told me some years ago that Zetterberg and Datsyuk will be NHL stars, so he knows what he is talking about.

___________________________________________________________________

Any opinions on this?

[Mule39 0]

I wish he was here now