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Crosby Vs Ovechkin


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#1 KrazyGangsta

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:36 PM

Id Take Ovechkin ...

#2 HoustonWingsFan

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:59 PM

This poll seems to be missing a lot of players.

1. Alexander Ovechkin, 2. Henrik Lundqvist, 3. Marek Svatos, 4. Sidney Crosby (over-rated) 4. Dion Phaneuf 5. Peter Prucha.

One of the best rookie classes ever.

#3 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 10:22 PM

QUOTE (HoustonWingsFan @ March 8, 2006 - 09:59PM)
This poll seems to be missing a lot of players.

1. Alexander Ovechkin, 2. Henrik Lundqvist, 3. Marek Svatos, 4. Sidney Crosby (over-rated) 4. Dion Phaneuf  5. Peter Prucha.

One of the best rookie classes ever.

Crosby is 18 years old.

That mean's he's 2 years younger than Ovechkin (who played with the Dynamo for 4 years), and 5 years younger than Svatos and Prucha. He's had a whopping 2 years in the CHL before stepping up to the NHL, and he has 29 goals and 39 assists this season.

I know there's all sorts of hype around him, but when it comes to his abilities, how exactly is he overrated?

Overhyped? yes. Overrated? no way.


EDIT: For reference, Zetterberg has 29 goals and 37 assists. Two fewer than Crosby. And Hank has a considerably better team around him.


And for voting, I'd take Crosby. In terms of just as a player, I'd pick Ovechkin. But if you include leadership, I think Crosby has more potential to turn into a great leader than Ovechkin.

Edited by haroldsnepsts, 08 March 2006 - 10:27 PM.


#4 norrisnick

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 10:43 PM

Ovechkin for me. Sure he's two years older and more mature as a player, but he's also dominating while adjusting to a whole new style of play here in North American, not to mention adjusting to living a whole new lifestyle. Yet here he is, within striking distance of the goalscoring lead and firmly planted in the league's top 10 scorers.

But the thing that astounds me most of all... he has more goals AND more assists than anyone else on his team has points. I'm not sure how that is even possible.

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#5 eva unit zero

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 01:30 AM

QUOTE (norrisnick @ March 8, 2006 - 11:43PM)
Ovechkin for me. Sure he's two years older and more mature as a player, but he's also dominating while adjusting to a whole new style of play here in North American, not to mention adjusting to living a whole new lifestyle. Yet here he is, within striking distance of the goalscoring lead and firmly planted in the league's top 10 scorers.

But the thing that astounds me most of all... he has more goals AND more assists than anyone else on his team has points. I'm not sure how that is even possible.

peace

It's the perfect example of one-man offense. Ovechkin has been directly involved with 45% (76 of 169) of Washington's goals, and has SCORED over 24%. Brett Hull's showing of 27.7% of goals scored is the highest percentage of his team's goals in modern history, and it won him the Hart and Pearson. Joe Malone's 38.3% in the first year of NHL competition obviously trumps it, as does his 12.8% of ALL league offense...and for reference, 12.8 percent of all league offense in today's NHL would be over 900 goals. 38.3% of an average team (3 GPG) would be an NHL record 94 goals.

As for the 45% number...it's only a couple percent off of Yzerman's Pearson-winning 49.5% (now THAT'S a crazy number) in 1988-99, when he scored 155 points. Yzerman had a higher number of assists ('only' 20.7% of his team's goals came from his stick)

Ovechkin has a strong case at winning the Pearson with numbers like that. One thing though...both of the guys I mentioned had a linemate who made the Second-team All-Stars (Oates and Gallant, respectively). Does anyone seriously think anyone on the Caps other than Ovechkin is even first line material, let alone an elite player in the league?
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#6 redwings1914

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 11:44 PM

Vech.
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#7 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 12:52 AM

QUOTE (eva unit zero @ March 9, 2006 - 02:30AM)
It's the perfect example of one-man offense. Ovechkin has been directly involved with 45% (76 of 169) of Washington's goals, and has SCORED over 24%. Brett Hull's showing of 27.7% of goals scored is the highest percentage of his team's goals in modern history, and it won him the Hart and Pearson. Joe Malone's 38.3% in the first year of NHL competition obviously trumps it, as does his 12.8% of ALL league offense...and for reference, 12.8 percent of all league offense in today's NHL would be over 900 goals. 38.3% of an average team (3 GPG) would be an NHL record 94 goals.

As for the 45% number...it's only a couple percent off of Yzerman's Pearson-winning 49.5% (now THAT'S a crazy number) in 1988-99, when he scored 155 points. Yzerman had a higher number of assists ('only' 20.7% of his team's goals came from his stick)

Ovechkin has a strong case at winning the Pearson with numbers like that. One thing though...both of the guys I mentioned had a linemate who made the Second-team All-Stars (Oates and Gallant, respectively). Does anyone seriously think anyone on the Caps other than Ovechkin is even first line material, let alone an elite player in the league?

Thanks, some awesome stats there, very interesting reading.

As for the poll, I would take Ovechkin. If I had a choice to watch one player, other than any of the Wings, I would take Ovechkin. I've only seen a few of his games, but I was in awe of his ability. He is the complete package, he can do it all. He’s one of the fastest skaters in the league, he can deliver huge hits, he’s got one of the most powerful and accurate shots in the league. He is only 1 goal behind leading the entire league in goals, in his first season! And perhaps the best aspect to his game is the responsibility he shows in his own end. Washington are a terrible team, they’re extremely poor defensively, but he’s +1 for the season. This clearly shows he’s not only focused on scoring, but taking care of business at the other end.

What an unbelievable talent. yowza.gif

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#8 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 09:45 AM

Depends what you are looking for.

Ovechkin is a natural scorer, where Crosby seems to be the more all around player. Also, it may be a little different if Ovechkin was playing with a few more offensive weapons like Crosby had this year.
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#9 Aussie_Wing

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 10:11 AM

QUOTE (Never Forget Mac #25 @ March 10, 2006 - 10:45AM)
Ovechkin is a natural scorer, where Crosby seems to be the more all around player.

How accurate is that though? I know Crosby can make these dazzling moves and passes, but he has 40 assists in 62 games, whereas Ovechkin, who is noted mainly for his scoring, has 37 assists in 60 games. Not a lot of difference. All you hear about is Crosby’s ability to set up teammates, but statistics suggest Ovechkin is just as good.

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#10 Heaton

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 01:30 PM

Most of Ovechkins assists come as a result of a rebound. Ovechkin is not the playmaker that Crosby is.
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#11 norrisnick

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 01:53 PM

QUOTE (Heaton @ March 10, 2006 - 12:30PM)
Most of Ovechkins assists come as a result of a rebound. Ovechkin is not the playmaker that Crosby is.

He's not the same level of playmaker, no. But he creates more offense with less around him. I believe Babcock said it early in the season. The best pass you can make is off the goalie's pads. That and he does set guys quite a bit. There are just less finishers in Washington. I think as the season progressed they've completely unleashed him knowing that no one on that roster can keep up with him.

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#12 dallas27

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 04:37 PM

They did a thing on ESPN with Greg Anthony (NBA) and Barry Melrose and they asked both what position a player would play in the opposite game a while ago.

I think Greg Anthony hit the nail on the head when he said that Crosby would be your point guard and rack up assists and Ovechkin would be your shooting guard and get you a ton of points / goals.

All depends on what you want...


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#13 StaticWithABeat

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Posted 10 March 2006 - 10:00 PM

Ovechkin. The more I read about him the more I like him. He's got an awesome attitude & personality, I really hope Washington finds some suitable linemates for him during the offseason.

#14 WestCoastWingsFan

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 04:53 PM

QUOTE (haroldsnepsts @ March 9, 2006 - 04:22AM)
And for voting, I'd take Crosby. In terms of just as a player, I'd pick Ovechkin. But if you include leadership, I think Crosby has more potential to turn into a great leader than Ovechkin.

I couldn't disagree more. Ovechkin has a edge to his game that I have yet to see out of Crosby. He plays hard, lays down tough hits, drives to the net, and shows so much passion and intensity that his teammates can't help but get fired up around him. We've seen this both in Washington and at the Olympics. I have no doubt that he'll Captain the Caps and Russia's int'l teams for a long time. Crosby, on the other hand, is such a wooden Indian I couldn't possibly see anyone rallying behind him.

#15 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 05:23 PM

QUOTE (WestCoastWingsFan @ March 11, 2006 - 04:53PM)
I couldn't disagree more. Ovechkin has a edge to his game that I have yet to see out of Crosby. He plays hard, lays down tough hits, drives to the net, and shows so much passion and intensity that his teammates can't help but get fired up around him. We've seen this both in Washington and at the Olympics. I have no doubt that he'll Captain the Caps and Russia's int'l teams for a long time. Crosby, on the other hand, is such a wooden Indian I couldn't possibly see anyone rallying behind him.

wow, big surprise. you're disagreeing with me. scared.gif


I agree that he shows a ton of passion and can fire the team up. But that doesn't necessarily make him the right personality for captain. I think Ovechkin is one of the guys you want to be able to turn loose. To let him shoot his mouth off, go nuts, do whatever he wants.

He'd have to reign that in some as captain. It usually doesn't go well if the guy yapping and taunting is the one talking to the refs about penalties. I'd rather he just be able to do his thing without having to worry about the leadership role.

Crosby has plenty of learning to do before he's ever gonna be a good captain, but I could see it in his personality more.

Yzerman wasn't exactly a rah rah guy on the ice early in his career.

#16 norrisnick

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 06:38 PM

QUOTE (haroldsnepsts @ March 11, 2006 - 04:23PM)
wow, big surprise. you're disagreeing with me. scared.gif


I agree that he shows a ton of passion and can fire the team up. But that doesn't necessarily make him the right personality for captain. I think Ovechkin is one of the guys you want to be able to turn loose. To let him shoot his mouth off, go nuts, do whatever he wants.

He'd have to reign that in some as captain. It usually doesn't go well if the guy yapping and taunting is the one talking to the refs about penalties. I'd rather he just be able to do his thing without having to worry about the leadership role.

Crosby has plenty of learning to do before he's ever gonna be a good captain, but I could see it in his personality more.

Yzerman wasn't exactly a rah rah guy on the ice early in his career.

If anyone is yapping it's Crosby. Ovechkin doesn't taunt or yap. He celebrates and shows unbridled enthusiasm to score goals but he doesn't really do it in a way to rub the other team's noses in it. He's just happy.

peace

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#17 WestCoastWingsFan

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 07:34 PM

QUOTE (norrisnick @ March 12, 2006 - 12:38AM)
If anyone is yapping it's Crosby. Ovechkin doesn't taunt or yap. He celebrates and shows unbridled enthusiasm to score goals but he doesn't really do it in a way to rub the other team's noses in it. He's just happy.

peace

I don't know what he's getting at, either. I've never seen Ovechkin yap or taunt anyone, nor have I ever heard about it. When he scores a goal, he pumps his fist, does a little dance, and then swallows up his nearest teammate in a bear hug. He doesn't get in an opposing player's face or anything.

As for Crosby, he's already starting to get a reputation as a whiner. Maybe he's like Gretzky after all. laugh.gif



#18 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 08:18 PM

QUOTE (norrisnick @ March 11, 2006 - 06:38PM)
If anyone is yapping it's Crosby. Ovechkin doesn't taunt or yap. He celebrates and shows unbridled enthusiasm to score goals but he doesn't really do it in a way to rub the other team's noses in it. He's just happy.

peace

yap isn't really the right word. Maybe more brash. He does do some trash talking now and then, from what I've heard, and running his mouth a bit like a Roenick or Hull.

Ovechkin on Crosby being named alternate captain:
QUOTE
    "I consider, at that age, to give someone that position -- it's ridiculous. Honestly, when Crosby was named alternate, I laughed."


Didn't he and Malkin taunt the fans at the world juniors? Apparently he's toned it down in the NHL, but it's not like it's unprecedented for him.

I don't think he's an Avery in the making or anything. Mainly just that he's sort of a loose, passionate guy. Something about the personality seems like he's the kind of guy you want to let have a long leash. And that's not the kind of guy I'd pick for captain.

Much in the same way that I think Hull wasn't the right guy for captain.


#19 norrisnick

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 08:27 PM

QUOTE (haroldsnepsts @ March 11, 2006 - 07:18PM)
yap isn't really the right word. Maybe more brash. He does do some trash talking now and then, from what I've heard, and running his mouth a bit like a Roenick or Hull.

Ovechkin on Crosby being named alternate captain:


Didn't he and Malkin taunt the fans at the world juniors? Apparently he's toned it down in the NHL, but it's not like it's unprecedented for him.

I don't think he's an Avery in the making or anything. Mainly just that he's sort of a loose, passionate guy. Something about the personality seems like he's the kind of guy you want to let have a long leash. And that's not the kind of guy I'd pick for captain.

Much in the same way that I think Hull wasn't the right guy for captain.

I think his on-ice play is more important than how he answers a question (barely speaking the language) to the media. And honestly it is absurd to hand an 18 year-old that kind of responsibility.

He lets his play do the talking on the ice. Crosby chats a lot. Could be when Ovechkin gets more comfortable with English he will as well, but by that time he'll be getting older and may just keep on keeping on as he is now.

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#20 J-Swift

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 08:28 PM

QUOTE (haroldsnepsts @ March 11, 2006 - 09:18PM)
Didn't he and Malkin taunt the fans at the world juniors?

Yep. Safe to say Ovechkin was not well thought of here in Canada.

Though I personally really like Alex. As NN put it, he has a lot of enthusiasm and loves scoring goals.

Crosby yaps, yes, but I think he's really trying to do too much. On a team where half the veterans couldn't possibly care less, he's been put into a leadership role that I don't think he's ready for.





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