Liv likely to jump the pond, but not Grigorenko

[betterREDthandead 58]

Liv likely to jump the pond, but not Grigorenko

Latest from Hockey's Future. Some excerpts:

What seemed as a sure bet is now a long shot. The Red Wings top European prospect, Igor Grigorenko, will most likely stay in Russia for another year according to Andersson.

“He has an offer from Avangard Omsk that would give him $1 million US dollars, tax free. We can’t offer him that money in Detroit.�

Grigorenko’s decision to stay in Russia has several reasons. One is of course money, but Andersson named the other important one. “He really wants his spot back with the national team.�

...

Other prospects that are in contracts consideration are Stefan Liv, Miroslav Blatak, Jari Tolsa, Andreas Jämtin and Jonathan Ericsson.

Stefan Liv is probably the only one that is a sure bet. Andersson said, “He’ll probably be offered a contract. He wants to go and most likely will.�

Liv has had a solid season in Sweden and is ready to come over. He will fight for a backup role on the team, but is likely headed to Grand Rapids for some seasoning.

...

According to the article, Tolsa and Jamtin are not terribly likely to actually make the jump. Blatak strikes me as the sort who will languish in the AHL for a couple years and then return to the CR. Ericsson is the intriguing one. Big fella. Could play useful minutes a few years down the road, but he's a huge risk/reward type.

Liv will of course provide good competition for Howard. Grigorenko, on the other hand....I hope we'll see him in the NHL soon. Doesn't look promising for next year. How much more can his game develop over there? He wants to play for the national team, but in the long run, he'd be doing more for his game in the NHL and might get fewer chances to play for Russia, but when he does, he'll be of more use to them.

[rage 24]

I know Liv coming over will make alot of people on here happy.

Too bad for Grigorenko though.

[Saran 1]

That sucks

[eva unit zero 271]

If Grigorenko isn't coming over, one wonders if that ensures Kopecky's spot.

[GiantRobot 0]

If Grigorenko isn't coming over, one wonders if that ensures Kopecky's spot.

Sounds logical...

ITs a shame though, I would love to see what Grigorenko could do here....

[RyanBarnes! 293]

If Grigorenko isn't coming over, one wonders if that ensures Kopecky's spot.

Or even better, Bootland's. Even though they play very different roles.

[norrisnick 1]

Or even better, Bootland's. Even though they play very different roles.

Darryl just needs to outplay Mowers. Bootland seems tailor made for a 13th forward spot.

With Grigorenko likely not making the jump, I like Hudler's odds to be given an honest shot on a scoring line. He has more than enough talent and apparently he's playing with some fire in the playoffs for the Griffins.

peace

[StaticWithABeat 0]

I hope Jamtin makes it over. I like his style - plays abrasive and physical and has developed some decent hands the past year or two.

[evilmrt 636]

are you guys kidding me? Grigorenko is coming. This is just more BS like we saw with Dats last year....

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Darryl just needs to outplay Mowers. Bootland seems tailor made for a 13th forward spot.

With Grigorenko likely not making the jump, I like Hudler's odds to be given an honest shot on a scoring line. He has more than enough talent and apparently he's playing with some fire in the playoffs for the Griffins.

peace

If Bootland is expected to help this team for real, he needs to be in the starting line up. Hudler is better suited as the 13th forward because I can't see him making much of an impact at the NHL level in the long run. I suspect plenty will disagree with that last statement, but that's my opnion.

Out of the bunch mentioned in the article, I think Tolsa would be the best choice for next season. He's kinda smallish, but he can play the body and has exceptional smarts. He struggled with injuries this past season, but could definitely bounce back if given a shot in the AHL. He is the kind of player that I think could get better in Northamerica. Poor man's Filppula or Zetterberg even.

[Heaton 1]

are you guys kidding me? Grigorenko is coming. This is just more BS like we saw with Dats last year....

This isn't BS, Grigorenko is going to be a rookie, if the RSL can offer more money than the Wings can he'll stay in Russia. There's a rookie max contract that we can fofer, the RSL can offer more than that.

[norrisnick 1]

If Bootland is expected to help this team for real, he needs to be in the starting line up. Hudler is better suited as the 13th forward because I can't see him making much of an impact at the NHL level in the long run. I suspect plenty will disagree with that last statement, but that's my opnion.

Out of the bunch mentioned in the article, I think Tolsa would be the best choice for next season. He's kinda smallish, but he can play the body and has exceptional smarts. He struggled with injuries this past season, but could definitely bounce back if given a shot in the AHL. He is the kind of player that I think could get better in Northamerica. Poor man's Filppula or Zetterberg even.

I don't think Bootland is expected to help the team. Just not hurt it.

Hudler has insane offensive skills and he put up huge numbers being a lazy s**t all season long. He got his face run into the boards early in game 1, picked up 18 stitches along the nose, came back with a shield and some crazy intensity, and won game 1 in 3OT. His playoff games have been described as the best of his career. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hudler seems bored with the AHL because for a guy that has excelled at the pro level since he was 17 there probably isn't much pushing him in the minors. If getting busted up in the playoffs gets him to go all out I think he'd flourish in a real role at the NHL level where there is a challenge for him.

peace

[betterREDthandead 58]

are you guys kidding me? Grigorenko is coming. This is just more BS like we saw with Dats last year....

Big difference. With Datsyuk we were hearing from his agent, and clearly Datsyuk was not going to make as much in Russia as he can make (or is making) here. With Grigorenko, we're hearing from Hakan Andersson, who doesn't have any monetary interest in him.

Eventually, if Grigorenko is chasing money, he'll realize he can make more in the long term by coming to the NHL, even if he takes a pay cut as a rookie. But the national team is a strong draw for a lot of people.

[Systemfel 33]

Stefan Liv is currently rumored to be headed to Russia and play for CSKA Moscow. Just giving you the message...

[Henkka 0]

Big difference. With Datsyuk we were hearing from his agent, and clearly Datsyuk was not going to make as much in Russia as he can make (or is making) here. With Grigorenko, we're hearing from Hakan Andersson, who doesn't have any monetary interest in him.

Eventually, if Grigorenko is chasing money, he'll realize he can make more in the long term by coming to the NHL, even if he takes a pay cut as a rookie. But the national team is a strong draw for a lot of people.

Grigorenko is playing right now at the Russian national team against Finland. This is a practise game before the World Champioships.

EDIT:

Russia won the game 3-1 and Grigs scored the 3-1 goal in the last period. Nice effort from him.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Henkka

[zzz 0]

My question is, if he doesn't sign a contract this summer, will Detroit lose the rights to him? I was under the impression that they had to sign him this summer to retain his rights, but I might be wrong. If that is true, though, would he be free to sign with any team the following year? That would be unfortunate.

[eva unit zero 271]

Or even better, Bootland's. Even though they play very different roles.

Kopecky seems more likely to me--he has more of a scoring touch than Bootland does, and while he's not the big time physical force Bootland is, he was consistently physical and aggressive this season which is a HUGE improvement over past years.

I also felt Kopecky was more likely because without Grigorenko, the team doesn't have a physical scorer they were expecting, Kopecky is no Grigs, but he is physical and has offensive talent. Bootland would be best served as a 12th or 13th forward, while Kopecky could be put on the second, third, or fourth line and contribute according to the line's role. Given the removal of Grigorenko, I could see these as potential lines for next year;

Holmstrom/Zetterberg/Samuelsson

Shanahan/Datsyuk/Kopecky

Hudler/Lang/Williams

Maltby/Draper/Franzen

[yzerman&thewings=CUP 0]

Stefan Liv is currently rumored to be headed to Russia and play for CSKA Moscow. Just giving you the message...

Rumored by who? you?

Anyways, grigorenko definitely would take $1 million tax-free in russia b/c the max contract here is $850,000 NOT tax-free, but hopefully he'll eventually get over here.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Kopecky seems more likely to me--he has more of a scoring touch than Bootland does, and while he's not the big time physical force Bootland is, he was consistently physical and aggressive this season which is a HUGE improvement over past years.

I also felt Kopecky was more likely because without Grigorenko, the team doesn't have a physical scorer they were expecting, Kopecky is no Grigs, but he is physical and has offensive talent. Bootland would be best served as a 12th or 13th forward, while Kopecky could be put on the second, third, or fourth line and contribute according to the line's role. Given the removal of Grigorenko, I could see these as potential lines for next year;

Holmstrom/Zetterberg/Samuelsson

Shanahan/Datsyuk/Kopecky

Hudler/Lang/Williams

Maltby/Draper/Franzen

If only the past had shown that Kopecky can be a physical presence on his own, I might have agreed with you. That isn't the case though, Kopecky without Bootland is not the same and I don't see Kopecky taking a physical role on a very unphysical team like Detroit. Especially not in the NHL.

Bootland has proved that willingness and has improved since. Detroit rarely rely on rookies for scoring anyways, I think Bootland would be good enough.

[Hockey Master 0]

This is getting annoying.

Grigorenko, he wants more money, that's fine. But at this point in his relationship with the Red Wings, I would begin to put my foot down.

Does he want to play in the NHL? Signs point to no. If he is more worried about losing his spot on the Russian team, then I don't think he's worried at all about his spot on the DETROIT RED WINGS or Grand Rapids Griffins.

Patriotism and nationalism is great and all, but if he doesn't want to show some sort of commitment to the organization that has tagged along with him for 5+ years and shown him that commitment, then I would give up on him.

He may have all the skill in the world, but I'm losing respect for him if he stays in Russia for money.

[TNBT 3]

This really is bad news. The Wings have stuck by Grigs this whole time, through all of this crap with his injuries and stuff, and just when he's back on top of his game and it looks like he's ready to come to America and show us what he can provide, he ******* out to stay in Russia for more money.

In the long term, there's more money to be made here in the NHL than in Russia, but I guess he's only looking at his next contract and what he can get NOW.

It's still good news about Liv though. It never hurts to have depth in net, and he and Howard should push each other to improve in the AHL next year (assuming both are with the Griffs), and it means we don't have to rely on/take chances with MacDonald and his glass back.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Don't get to carried away with Grigs not coming over, nothing is for definite yet and there's plenty of guys over here who play on the national team for Russia. We have one already and that could be 3 by the start of next season.

[eva unit zero 271]

If only the past had shown that Kopecky can be a physical presence on his own, I might have agreed with you. That isn't the case though, Kopecky without Bootland is not the same and I don't see Kopecky taking a physical role on a very unphysical team like Detroit. Especially not in the NHL.

Bootland has proved that willingness and has improved since. Detroit rarely rely on rookies for scoring anyways, I think Bootland would be good enough.

If Kopecky was placed on the line I suggested, it would be to take on a primarily physical role. In his career his role has always been the offensive player; the scorer. If his PRIMARY role was to fill a physical, grinding role, as it has been this season for the first time in his career--as you mention, he played o nthe third line with Bootland, a line used primarily as physical force and secondary support scoring--he would be SIGNIFICANTLY improved from his prior disappointing form.

I am not expecting Kopecky to be a significant offensive force next seaosn, it's more of thinking along the lines of his physical presence carrying over and creating room for Datsyuk and Shanahan to put it in the net, something like the Drake/Turgeon/Young line from St. Louis where Turgeon had a huge year and Young scored 40 goals largely because Drake was a huge presence and could chip in goals himself. Bootland could probably fill that role also, but I think Kopecky would be a better choice given his higher offensive upside--if we can establish Kopecky as a second line physical winger who can score 15-20 goals, that would be a HUGE improvement from the near-bust status he had this time last year.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

If Kopecky was placed on the line I suggested, it would be to take on a primarily physical role. In his career his role has always been the offensive player; the scorer. If his PRIMARY role was to fill a physical, grinding role, as it has been this season for the first time in his career--as you mention, he played o nthe third line with Bootland, a line used primarily as physical force and secondary support scoring--he would be SIGNIFICANTLY improved from his prior disappointing form.

I am not expecting Kopecky to be a significant offensive force next seaosn, it's more of thinking along the lines of his physical presence carrying over and creating room for Datsyuk and Shanahan to put it in the net, something like the Drake/Turgeon/Young line from St. Louis where Turgeon had a huge year and Young scored 40 goals largely because Drake was a huge presence and could chip in goals himself. Bootland could probably fill that role also, but I think Kopecky would be a better choice given his higher offensive upside--if we can establish Kopecky as a second line physical winger who can score 15-20 goals, that would be a HUGE improvement from the near-bust status he had this time last year.

I just don't see Kopecky being physical in the NHL. If paired with Datsyuk, I'm afraid he'd consider himself a superstar once again. I'm under the impression that Kopecky is a copycat. He pretty much plays the same style his linemates do. Give me Bootland!

[TNBT 3]

I just don't see Kopecky being physical in the NHL. If paired with Datsyuk, I'm afraid he'd consider himself a superstar once again. I'm under the impression that Kopecky is a copycat. He pretty much plays the same style his linemates do. Give me Bootland!

I have to say that I tend to agree with this viewpoint.

We have never really seen Kopecky show any signs of physicality until this year when he was paired with Bootland. If he's no longer paired with Bootland, what's to say he'll continue to play a physical style without Booter there to motivate him and show him the way?

He's on a line with a physical player, and he's starting to show some physical signs. If he's removed from that and placed onto a line with scorers, then that physical "inspiration" is gone, and all of a sudden he looks around and he's surrounded by scorers, so it's likely that he's going to start to play a similar style.