Shanahan seeking a 2-yr deal at $5M/season

[DSM 114]

All I gotta say is Holland better be working on trades. Im sick of hearing how "we only have 6M available cap space" blah blah blah. When trading any combination of Schneider, Lang, Williams, and Maltby (probably hard to do), could free up a good chunk of space.

Thats exactly the problem, with the exception of Williams (who isn't taking up any capspace at the moment) Other teams dont need an overpaid forward on defense, an overpaid big slow lazy center, or a way overpaid 4th liner to clog up their cap.

[J-Swift 0]

Shanny doesn't deserve a dime more than Zetterberg makes, and he certainly doesn't deserve to be our highest paid forward. Offer Brendan exactly what he made last season, and if that's not enough, let him leave.

And considering how things haven't exactly gone well for Shanahan on the free agent market, Ken Holland should be playing hardball, not throwing out several million dollars. I swear, Kenny is intent on bringing back the exact same team from last season.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Well, I am of the mind that given the opportunity to play for Detroit I would certainly try to help out the team by signing for less if I were in Shanny's shoes. However, I have never read anywhere that any team must swear its loyalty to a player or vice versa. If you had two job opportunities and one offered to pay you 2 million more per year, I wonder just how easy it would be for you to walk away from the bigger paycheck. Your comment about Shanny being rewarded with huge contracts in the past is pretty lame in my opinion. One could respond by saying he helped reward us with 3 Stanley Cups.

If you want to get your panties bunched up over this situation you should be pointing your finger at Holland. Oh yeah, and by the way I have yet to see where this is actually a confirmed offer so let's not bite Holland's head off yet.

I can't believe how irate folks get about speculation, and probably piss poor speculation at that. The funny thing here is that nobody is pissed off at just one side, they're all pissed off at Holland AND Shanahan and there hasn't even been a deal struck.

I don't think Shanahan deserves 4 million dollars at this point but it's pretty damned hard to argue with his production. His point totals certainly warrant the money. How he has performed in the playoffs doesn't matter to pretty much anybody but fans. Players get paid for racking up points in the regular season. They don't not get paid less for playoff failure, they either get cut loose or traded.

Hell, we paid Lidstrom 7.6 millon per for two more years. He'll be freaking 39 years old then. I don't see people bitching about that.

If we paid people based on playoff performance our payroll would be the lowest in the league. People need to get real and get with the program. Pickings for bonafide scorers are slim. Shanahan showed last year he still can produce. The argument that he's older doesn't hold much water, face it it just doesn't. Production is production. Who cares if 40 goals comes from a 37 year old or a 27 year old. I don't think the puck can discern who is bashing it into the back of the net.

I hope Shanny sticks around and I hope he doesn't cost more than 3 million. But the arguments i'm hearing for why he doesn't deserve more are plain stupid. Still, its nice to see how cavalier folks get this time of year with other people's money. Yup, everyone out there is a philanthropist on par with the Gateses or Warren Buffett.

I agree that Guerin would have been a nice pickup. However, your argument is another one that just baffles me. So Holland should be hanged for offering a 40 goal scorer, coming off an 81 point season 4 million a year but it'd be a great pickup to pay a guy over 2 million who absolutely hit the s*** tank last year? ummm.....i don't get it.

this post was meant for Barnes

Cut loose, yeah that's exactly what should happen in this case. Shanahan clearly hasn't enough motivation left and Detroit shouldn't have room for someone like him. Detroit really need to make some changes in order to progress. Holland has neglected this far too long, even if it turns out these rumors about a $4 M offer is false. This is why people are upset.

EDIT: I'm not the Barnes, but I'll answer anyways...

In this case, I'd rather pay someone that has something to prove $2 M (Guerin) than pay someone with absolutely nothing to prove $4 M.

Edited July 5, 2006 by RyanBarnes!

[rage 24]

Oh hell no.

[FunkyBlueFish203 0]

Can Datsyuk's agent use Shanahan's contract as a negotiation factor? Of course he can. If a 37-year old, slow, on the decline winger can net 40 regular season goals and get $4M, why can't a similar regular season wonder who is younger and has slicker moves and a few more points get about $1M more than that?

Based on what he had done in the NHL until last season, Zetterberg got a fair value contract. In fact the Wings actually thought they shelled out a couple hundred thousand more than expected for him. Still, looking at what he did last season and in the playoffs, his contract looks like a steal now. Especially considering that he signed a 4-year deal bypassing the year he would've become an UFA.

Based on what he had done in the NHL until last season, Datsyuk got overpaid. His agent bargained on potential performance, and Datsyuk's playoff performance didn't live up to billing. Also to be noted, Datsyuk's agent drove hard for a 2-year deal only, which ensured Datsyuk would be an UFA at the end of this deal. So next season the Wings either shell out $5M/season for Datsyuk if they sign him early not knowing how he'll do in the playoffs, or risk losing him for free on the open market.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

geez... 4million, Datsyuk dosent even make that much. everybody talks s*** about dats making too much $$, well at least he's not a 37 year old aging powerforward thats lost his physical edge.

if holland signs shanny to a $4million contract i will loose all faith in him.... then on top of this talk he is thinking of signing belfour or hasek.... we definatley need to get rid of him (and people thought legace sucks..... what the hell is a 50year old goalie going to bring to this team)

I've been a long-time Holland faithful. I think the guy knows his stuff. Apparently Illitch thinks so as well.

People need to get ahold of some reality here:

Elias: We made a big time offer. He got a better one. Anybody here be happy paying Elias 6 mill until he's as old as Shanny and Lidstrom? Holland tried. Personally, i'm glad he didn't succeed as Elias' deal is a monster cap killer.

Toskala: Everybody wants Toskala cause he's good and cheap. Precisely why the Sharks aren't going to give him up. If Havlat can't get you Toskala then quit dreaming about Schneider or Williams getting it done.

Arnott: Isn't he a center? Don't we have a glut of centerman? Isn't he getting paid 4 million now? Thanks, I'll pass on the guy who came up big in his free agency year but has never established himself as a bonafied scorer year in and year out.

Nabokov: Obviously talented, obviously expensive. Why hasn't Kenny picked him up? Probably for the same reason none of the other teams that were or are looking for goalie help have.....Sharks are asking too much for a guy with a big salary. Who can blame them, they can afford to keep Nabby and both of their goalies are good so they are in a win win situation and can ask for whatever the f*** they want.

Barnaby: Oh please, I love Matt's enthusiasm and willingness to battle but anybody who lumps Barnaby in with a group that includes Arnott, Shanahan and Guerin is short a few firing synapses.

Robert Lang: The guy is precisely the reason why we have depth down the middle. He's also the only motherf***er who shows up during the playoffs yet we all want to get rid of him. So we don't want to pay Shanahan 4 million cause he blows in the playoffs but Lang is overpaid for showing up in the playoffs. Uhh, dur....i don't get it. Much like the Nabokov situation, we have a good player with a high price tag. Unless we want to get totally fleeced and give him up for a 6th rounder nobody is going to take him. If we keep him we have another good player. If we deal him we lose said good player and get no immediate help.

Shanahan: Ageing but still producing. If we could give salary rollbacks for not producing in the playoffs Datsyuk's salary would go down to $750K per year.

Pronger: Seriously, did anyone think that would ever happen? If you did, seek help.

Brendan Witt: Be nice to have him, but he's overpriced. The fact that he's back in the East and away from Nashville is good enough.

Mike Grier: I can see it now, take out "Maltby" and exchange "Grier" in the bash threads. Only Grier is even more expensive so figure people to be even more pissed off.

Aaron Ward: 3 million? 'nuff said

Kuba, Kubina, McKee, Jovo, MItchell, the opportunity to sign any went out the window when Nick re-uped for 7.6. Yet everyone is jumping for joy like the cap just went to 82 million or something. Yes, we're lucky that Nick didn't take a raise when he could've. But lets not kid ourselves here, that salary kills us.

Schnieder: See Lang comments.

Face it people, we haven't got many tradeable assets. Schnieder and Lang are not that tradeable due to their salaries. Everybody wants Z, Dats or Kronner, not gonna happen. Stop deluding yourselves with thoughts that people want bulls*** players like Wiliams or Mowers or Maltby. Sure, they are decent enough and another team could use them but we aren't going to get enough value for them so the smart thing to do is keep them.

Shanny: Hate to say it but if he'll sign for 3 million, i'm happy cause I like Shanny, he's got the production to warrant the raise and there is nobody on the market that can replace him. You want to start crying about next season. Wait until we lose Shanny and replace him with............Samsonov? Great, all 5 foot nothing of him. Just another European for people to use in the "we don't have enough size and grit up front" threads........oh yeah, but let's trade our biggest centerman in Lang.

Maybe it isn't so easy being an NHL GM. Maybe if you've got 17 guys under contract for 20 million dollars and you sucked monkey balls last year you can go out and sign McKee and Guerin like St.Louis did. I'd still rather be a Wings fan by the way.

Belfour: I dunno, I think the guy is a nutcase. But for cheap money and the notion that perhaps a change of scenery might help I'd give him the Bill Guerin, hopeful he returns to form scenario. I reiterate, for cheap!

We aren't in a very good situation this offseason and frankly, it was to be expected. We've got some room but throwing money out there just to throw it out there is the worst thing Holland could do. People need to relax, whether its Ozzie and Howard or Belfour and Oz this team still has: Lids, Schneider, Chely, Kronner, Lang, Dats, Z, Homer, Malts, Drapes, Franzen, Sammy...we're still a good enough team to get into the playoffs with ease and maybe the trade deadline would be the better time to pull the trigger.

OK, i'm officially ranted out for the day.

[RedRum #1 0]

Right out of the Detroit News................."General manager Ken Holland hopes to hear from Brendan Shanahan 's agent today or Thursday. Shanahan, a free-agent forward, is attracting interest from St. Louis, Boston, the Rangers, Montreal and Toronto.

The Wings are offering Shanahan a slight raise above the $2.18 million he made last season.

Who came up with 4 Mil???

That Kahn's number.....like I said, I think he received some questionable info. I think Shanahan priced himself out of Detroit a while ago...Holland and Yzerman claiming Detroit wants him back at this point are just hollow gestures, because he's not about to get $4mill here.....I have to think Holland has some sense.

[Barnes52 0]

I've been a long-time Holland faithful. I think the guy knows his stuff. Apparently Illitch thinks so as well.

People need to get ahold of some reality here:

Elias: We made a big time offer. He got a better one. Anybody here be happy paying Elias 6 mill until he's as old as Shanny and Lidstrom? Holland tried. Personally, i'm glad he didn't succeed as Elias' deal is a monster cap killer.

Toskala: Everybody wants Toskala cause he's good and cheap. Precisely why the Sharks aren't going to give him up. If Havlat can't get you Toskala then quit dreaming about Schneider or Williams getting it done.

Arnott: Isn't he a center? Don't we have a glut of centerman? Isn't he getting paid 4 million now? Thanks, I'll pass on the guy who came up big in his free agency year but has never established himself as a bonafied scorer year in and year out.

Nabokov: Obviously talented, obviously expensive. Why hasn't Kenny picked him up? Probably for the same reason none of the other teams that were or are looking for goalie help have.....Sharks are asking too much for a guy with a big salary. Who can blame them, they can afford to keep Nabby and both of their goalies are good so they are in a win win situation and can ask for whatever the f*** they want.

Barnaby: Oh please, I love Matt's enthusiasm and willingness to battle but anybody who lumps Barnaby in with a group that includes Arnott, Shanahan and Guerin is short a few firing synapses.

Robert Lang: The guy is precisely the reason why we have depth down the middle. He's also the only motherf***er who shows up during the playoffs yet we all want to get rid of him. So we don't want to pay Shanahan 4 million cause he blows in the playoffs but Lang is overpaid for showing up in the playoffs. Uhh, dur....i don't get it. Much like the Nabokov situation, we have a good player with a high price tag. Unless we want to get totally fleeced and give him up for a 6th rounder nobody is going to take him. If we keep him we have another good player. If we deal him we lose said good player and get no immediate help.

Shanahan: Ageing but still producing. If we could give salary rollbacks for not producing in the playoffs Datsyuk's salary would go down to $750K per year.

Pronger: Seriously, did anyone think that would ever happen? If you did, seek help.

Brendan Witt: Be nice to have him, but he's overpriced. The fact that he's back in the East and away from Nashville is good enough.

Mike Grier: I can see it now, take out "Maltby" and exchange "Grier" in the bash threads. Only Grier is even more expensive so figure people to be even more pissed off.

Aaron Ward: 3 million? 'nuff said

Kuba, Kubina, McKee, Jovo, MItchell, the opportunity to sign any went out the window when Nick re-uped for 7.6. Yet everyone is jumping for joy like the cap just went to 82 million or something. Yes, we're lucky that Nick didn't take a raise when he could've. But lets not kid ourselves here, that salary kills us.

Schnieder: See Lang comments.

Face it people, we haven't got many tradeable assets. Schnieder and Lang are not that tradeable due to their salaries. Everybody wants Z, Dats or Kronner, not gonna happen. Stop deluding yourselves with thoughts that people want bulls*** players like Wiliams or Mowers or Maltby. Sure, they are decent enough and another team could use them but we aren't going to get enough value for them so the smart thing to do is keep them.

Shanny: Hate to say it but if he'll sign for 3 million, i'm happy cause I like Shanny, he's got the production to warrant the raise and there is nobody on the market that can replace him. You want to start crying about next season. Wait until we lose Shanny and replace him with............Samsonov? Great, all 5 foot nothing of him. Just another European for people to use in the "we don't have enough size and grit up front" threads........oh yeah, but let's trade our biggest centerman in Lang.

Maybe it isn't so easy being an NHL GM. Maybe if you've got 17 guys under contract for 20 million dollars and you sucked monkey balls last year you can go out and sign McKee and Guerin like St.Louis did. I'd still rather be a Wings fan by the way.

Belfour: I dunno, I think the guy is a nutcase. But for cheap money and the notion that perhaps a change of scenery might help I'd give him the Bill Guerin, hopeful he returns to form scenario. I reiterate, for cheap!

We aren't in a very good situation this offseason and frankly, it was to be expected. We've got some room but throwing money out there just to throw it out there is the worst thing Holland could do. People need to relax, whether its Ozzie and Howard or Belfour and Oz this team still has: Lids, Schneider, Chely, Kronner, Lang, Dats, Z, Homer, Malts, Drapes, Franzen, Sammy...we're still a good enough team to get into the playoffs with ease and maybe the trade deadline would be the better time to pull the trigger.

OK, i'm officially ranted out for the day.

Hey, Ilitch thought Randy Smith was a great GM also, tell me how that turned out? There were players to be had and grit to be signed, and Holland crapped his pants. Tell me why Lidstrom took a paycut to sign an Ed Belfour? Where are the changes promised? Other GMs are finding ways to maneuvor around the cap and do it well, Holland can't. Sorry, I have no faith in Holland, and it seems as though when you analyze his record, you can't justify the need to have any

[young money 0]

WOWWW theres no way thats right. Shanahan has disappeared in the playoffs in all of our first round exits, why keep him, especially at a high price?

Holland needs to be ousted...now

[Happy Pancake 6]

Still waiting for the big changes...

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Hey, Ilitch thought Randy Smith was a great GM also, tell me how that turned out? There were players to be had and grit to be signed, and Holland crapped his pants. Tell me why Lidstrom took a paycut to sign an Ed Belfour? Where are the changes promised? Other GMs are finding ways to maneuvor around the cap and do it well, Holland can't. Sorry, I have no faith in Holland, and it seems as though when you analyze his record, you can't justify the need to have any

He took an 80 million dollar payroll, cut it in half and won a president's trophy. I know, I know, playoffs are all that matters and we should win it every year. Believe me, I hear all the folks screaming about how the Wings should win every year no matter what or its a failure. Of course that's the most idiotic notion on the planet but I'll let people have their fun with it.

As for the changes promised. Can you be specific? No, you can't. Because nothing specific was ever stated by Holland or anyone else. They said that there would be changes but neither you nor I has any clue by what measuring stick they are using to determine if they are minor or major changes. Dumping Legace could seem like a blip on the radar to you or me but could be considered major by the organization. Who knows?

As for the "players to be had and grit to be signed", ok. Thanks for the stating the absolute obvious for me. It isn't about you picking a name out and saying get it done. A good GM must take into account who the player is, do they want to come here, how much will it cost, what does he really bring to the team, how will the chemistry work, what's his age, can he play an up tempo game, is he good enough to play in a puck posession system and on and on and on.

You make it sound as simple as saying: "OOOH, OOOH, Dan Hinote, I like him Kenny, sign him. Logistics, smogistics. Ohh, damn, St.Louis signed him. Kenny, YOU SUCK!"

PS. Nobody in the business of hockey has anything but the utmost respect for what Ken Holland has done. Yeah, cups are the mark of true excellence and last time I checked nobody had more than us or the Devils over the past 15 years. Every GM wants to put together a competitive team that can make it to the playoffs every year and have a shot. When it comes to that, Ken Holland is head and shoulders above 90% of the field. Cap or no cap he keeps this team in contention. Winning the goddamned thing is such a crapshoot once you get into the playoffs that harping about not signing guys now for the playoff run next year is just a bunch of wasted time IMO.

If you could, go ask Lamoriello or Lowe or somebody who got their arse canned like Oconnell in Boston. Ask them if Holland has built a model for excellence at the GM position or if he's a bum like you would like to pretend he is.

You may not agree with the man's decisions or non-decisions, but that doesn't mean he is bad at what he does. All it means is you don't agree with him. His record speaks for itself. The excellence of the franchise speaks for itself. But by all means, regurgitate the 3 straight playoffs exits in the early rounds song for me. If winning the cup is going to be the standard for true excellence then 1 GM is a genius every year and 29 others are buffoons.

[wingsdiehard13 33]

Too Much...WAY Too Much

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Too Much...WAY Too Much

Sorry my friend, slow day at work and I get a little excited sometimes! Will try to cut it down in the future!

[Covenant 0]

I've been a long-time Holland faithful. I think the guy knows his stuff. Apparently Illitch thinks so as well.

People need to get ahold of some reality here:

Elias: We made a big time offer. He got a better one. Anybody here be happy paying Elias 6 mill until he's as old as Shanny and Lidstrom? Holland tried. Personally, i'm glad he didn't succeed as Elias' deal is a monster cap killer.

Toskala: Everybody wants Toskala cause he's good and cheap. Precisely why the Sharks aren't going to give him up. If Havlat can't get you Toskala then quit dreaming about Schneider or Williams getting it done.

Arnott: Isn't he a center? Don't we have a glut of centerman? Isn't he getting paid 4 million now? Thanks, I'll pass on the guy who came up big in his free agency year but has never established himself as a bonafied scorer year in and year out.

Nabokov: Obviously talented, obviously expensive. Why hasn't Kenny picked him up? Probably for the same reason none of the other teams that were or are looking for goalie help have.....Sharks are asking too much for a guy with a big salary. Who can blame them, they can afford to keep Nabby and both of their goalies are good so they are in a win win situation and can ask for whatever the f*** they want.

Barnaby: Oh please, I love Matt's enthusiasm and willingness to battle but anybody who lumps Barnaby in with a group that includes Arnott, Shanahan and Guerin is short a few firing synapses.

Robert Lang: The guy is precisely the reason why we have depth down the middle. He's also the only motherf***er who shows up during the playoffs yet we all want to get rid of him. So we don't want to pay Shanahan 4 million cause he blows in the playoffs but Lang is overpaid for showing up in the playoffs. Uhh, dur....i don't get it. Much like the Nabokov situation, we have a good player with a high price tag. Unless we want to get totally fleeced and give him up for a 6th rounder nobody is going to take him. If we keep him we have another good player. If we deal him we lose said good player and get no immediate help.

Shanahan: Ageing but still producing. If we could give salary rollbacks for not producing in the playoffs Datsyuk's salary would go down to $750K per year.

Pronger: Seriously, did anyone think that would ever happen? If you did, seek help.

Brendan Witt: Be nice to have him, but he's overpriced. The fact that he's back in the East and away from Nashville is good enough.

Mike Grier: I can see it now, take out "Maltby" and exchange "Grier" in the bash threads. Only Grier is even more expensive so figure people to be even more pissed off.

Aaron Ward: 3 million? 'nuff said

Kuba, Kubina, McKee, Jovo, MItchell, the opportunity to sign any went out the window when Nick re-uped for 7.6. Yet everyone is jumping for joy like the cap just went to 82 million or something. Yes, we're lucky that Nick didn't take a raise when he could've. But lets not kid ourselves here, that salary kills us.

Schnieder: See Lang comments.

Face it people, we haven't got many tradeable assets. Schnieder and Lang are not that tradeable due to their salaries. Everybody wants Z, Dats or Kronner, not gonna happen. Stop deluding yourselves with thoughts that people want bulls*** players like Wiliams or Mowers or Maltby. Sure, they are decent enough and another team could use them but we aren't going to get enough value for them so the smart thing to do is keep them.

Shanny: Hate to say it but if he'll sign for 3 million, i'm happy cause I like Shanny, he's got the production to warrant the raise and there is nobody on the market that can replace him. You want to start crying about next season. Wait until we lose Shanny and replace him with............Samsonov? Great, all 5 foot nothing of him. Just another European for people to use in the "we don't have enough size and grit up front" threads........oh yeah, but let's trade our biggest centerman in Lang.

Maybe it isn't so easy being an NHL GM. Maybe if you've got 17 guys under contract for 20 million dollars and you sucked monkey balls last year you can go out and sign McKee and Guerin like St.Louis did. I'd still rather be a Wings fan by the way.

Belfour: I dunno, I think the guy is a nutcase. But for cheap money and the notion that perhaps a change of scenery might help I'd give him the Bill Guerin, hopeful he returns to form scenario. I reiterate, for cheap!

We aren't in a very good situation this offseason and frankly, it was to be expected. We've got some room but throwing money out there just to throw it out there is the worst thing Holland could do. People need to relax, whether its Ozzie and Howard or Belfour and Oz this team still has: Lids, Schneider, Chely, Kronner, Lang, Dats, Z, Homer, Malts, Drapes, Franzen, Sammy...we're still a good enough team to get into the playoffs with ease and maybe the trade deadline would be the better time to pull the trigger.

OK, i'm officially ranted out for the day.

Probably the best post I've read on this site, period.

[Grind_Lines_#1_Fan 0]

Shanahan is a great player and of course no doubt is a lock for the HOF, but 4 million a year is not a good idea. It looks like he'll be back my friends

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Shanahan is a great player and of course no doubt is a lock for the HOF, but 4 million a year is not a good idea. It looks like he'll be back my friends

For the record, I don't think we should pay him 4 mil either. But if its between Shanahan or Samsonov (figure their salaries to be pretty darn close), sorry I gotta go with the Irishman here. No contest.

[Barnes52 0]

He took an 80 million dollar payroll, cut it in half and won a president's trophy. I know, I know, playoffs are all that matters and we should win it every year. Believe me, I hear all the folks screaming about how the Wings should win every year no matter what or its a failure. Of course that's the most idiotic notion on the planet but I'll let people have their fun with it.

As for the changes promised. Can you be specific? No, you can't. Because nothing specific was ever stated by Holland or anyone else. They said that there would be changes but neither you nor I has any clue by what measuring stick they are using to determine if they are minor or major changes. Dumping Legace could seem like a blip on the radar to you or me but could be considered major by the organization. Who knows?

As for the "players to be had and grit to be signed", ok. Thanks for the stating the absolute obvious for me. It isn't about you picking a name out and saying get it done. A good GM must take into account who the player is, do they want to come here, how much will it cost, what does he really bring to the team, how will the chemistry work, what's his age, can he play an up tempo game, is he good enough to play in a puck posession system and on and on and on.

You make it sound as simple as saying: "OOOH, OOOH, Dan Hinote, I like him Kenny, sign him. Logistics, smogistics. Ohh, damn, St.Louis signed him. Kenny, YOU SUCK!"

PS. Nobody in the business of hockey has anything but the utmost respect for what Ken Holland has done. Yeah, cups are the mark of true excellence and last time I checked nobody had more than us or the Devils over the past 15 years. Every GM wants to put together a competitive team that can make it to the playoffs every year and have a shot. When it comes to that, Ken Holland is head and shoulders above 90% of the field. Cap or no cap he keeps this team in contention. Winning the goddamned thing is such a crapshoot once you get into the playoffs that harping about not signing guys now for the playoff run next year is just a bunch of wasted time IMO.

If you could, go ask Lamoriello or Lowe or somebody who got their arse canned like Oconnell in Boston. Ask them if Holland has built a model for excellence at the GM position or if he's a bum like you would like to pretend he is.

You may not agree with the man's decisions or non-decisions, but that doesn't mean he is bad at what he does. All it means is you don't agree with him. His record speaks for itself. The excellence of the franchise speaks for itself. But by all means, regurgitate the 3 straight playoffs exits in the early rounds song for me. If winning the cup is going to be the standard for true excellence then 1 GM is a genius every year and 29 others are buffoons.

I can be specific. He said we're going to get "4-8 new faces", we're going to be "trading away some skaters, and changes need to be made". He also said they're going after a goalie, I doubt he meant Hasek and Belfour. Holland fan, Nick Lidstrom took a a paycut after winning the Norris Trophy, Brendan Shanahan is looking to get a raise after 3 straight playoff flops, justify that! Out of his 40 goals, 40% were against weak sisters like Chicago, St Louis and Columbus, he's also known to take parts of the season off and his playoff record is abysmal. Ask Lamoriello what? Lou has won 3 cups by building each team himself, he didn't have the luxury of an $80mm+ payroll either, he did it through drafts and trading, Holland was GM for 2 of those Cups, but he inherited a solid roster with the core all set. You have no idea what people in the business think of Holland, none at all, a lot of GMs are jealous of the great owner he works for, one that will always want to field a winner and spend what it takes, it seems a lot of GMs blame him for the need to even have a cap in the first place...sour grapes? Sure, but don't tell me they all respect Holland. As for not winning it every year? True, but 3 playoff flops, by lower seeded teams? Fact is this team has gambled away it's future to trade for guys because they want to win the Cup now! They charge the highest ticket prices because they want to field a team who competes for the Cup every year. They spend the most money for the same reason . As for your comments about signing guys like Hinote, when I hear that Holland wants more grit and muscle, then I hear that guys like Barnaby are signing for 650k and guys like Guerin are signing for $2mm/yr, or a guy like Keith Carney for 2mm+, I wonder what Holland is thinking about. Show me a post where I sat and cursed Holland for missing a certain UFA, you can't, my point is that there are UFAs that were available and could've been had for cheap, but tHolland is not engaged until he finds out what Shanny's doing? Does that sound like a plan? Where's the plan B? Imagine how hard it'll be to trade for some scoring, it sure as hell ain't easy to trade for a goalie. If all they're looking for is a fourth line grinder, and a physial defensman then what are they waiting for? Trade? I doubt that because Holland has yet to make a significant trade. Face it, the guy, so far, has not shown he can work in the new CBA, he's done nothing to give fans hope things will be diferent. Again, it's unbelievable to me that a guy can tell a Norris Trophy winner to accept less, then offer a raise to Shanahan for his playoff flops and his disappearing acts over the season.

Edited July 5, 2006 by Barnes52

[GoOzzie30 0]

I was just on www.detnews.com and came across this..

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A.../607050368/1128

July 5th, 2006

"Ice chips

General manager Ken Holland hopes to hear from Brendan Shanahan 's agent today or Thursday. Shanahan, a free-agent forward, is attracting interest from St. Louis, Boston, the Rangers, Montreal and Toronto.

The Wings are offering Shanahan a slight raise above the $2.18 million he made last season.."

I don't think $ 4 million a year from the $ 2.18 million he made last season is a slight raise.....

[motorcitykid 42]

OK, i'm officially ranted out for the day.

Some good points, especially about Mathieu, but nothing can distract from the fact Holland is simply sitting on his hands.

I keep hearing the same lines about coming "this close". Whatever.

When teams like Calgary & St. Louis, hello ST. LOUIS! are players, something is really f'd up.

Just like I started to hate Lewis once I saw his Detroit old school mentality & softness towards players,

i'm sickened by Holland, who simply refuses to make necessary moves. A little tweak here. A little tweak there.

I'm sick of players not performing in the playoffs & not held accountable.

If a guy doesn't do his job why the hell is Holland looking at rewarding him the next season?

4 million or 3 million? I don't care. Shanny isn't worth it.

It's time to make a change.

You wanna keep paying guys for past performances? You want to claim guys like Pavel are untouchable?

That is a dangerous road we are going to go down. You're handicapping this franchise long after you've left, Ken.

There are many, many, many players out there .... MANY players that Holland can land.

The new NHL gives you every chance to change the look of your team each season.

There are moves that can be made.

What the hell is he waiting for. Don't Mr & Mrs Ilitch see this for what it is??

I can be specific. He said we're going to get "4-8 new faces", we're going to be "trading away some skaters, and changes need to be made". He also said they're going after a goalie, I doubt he meant Hasek and Belfour. Holland fan, Nick Lidstrom took a a paycut after winning the Norris Trophy, Brendan Shanahan is looking to get a raise after 3 straight playoff flops, justify that! Out of his 40 goals, 40% were against weak sisters like Chicago, St Louis and Columbus, he's also known to take parts of the season off and his playoff record is abysmal. Ask Lamoriello what? Lou has won 3 cups by building each team himself, he didn't have the luxury of an $80mm+ payroll either, he did it through drafts and trading, Holland was GM for 2 of those Cups, but he inherited a solid roster with the core all set. You have no idea what people in the business think of Holland, none at all, a lot of GMs are jealous of the great owner he works for, one that will always want to field a winner and spend what it takes, it seems a lot of GMs blame him for the need to even have a cap in the first place...sour grapes? Sure, but don't tell me they all respect Holland. As for not winning it every year? True, but 3 playoff flops, by lower seeded teams? Fact is this team has gambled away it's future to trade for guys because they want to win the Cup now! They charge the highest ticket prices because they want to field a team who competes for the Cup every year. They spend the most money for the same reason . As for your comments about signing guys like Hinote, when I hear that Holland wants more grit and muscle, then I hear that guys like Barnaby are signing for 650k and guys like Guerin are signing for $2mm/yr, or a guy like Keith Carney for 2mm+, I wonder what Holland is thinking about. Show me a post where I sat and cursed Holland for missing a certain UFA, you can't, my point is that he hasn't really engaged anyone. I don't care if we signed Hinote, Barnaby or Ruutu, but sign someone! If all they're looking for is a fourth line grinder, and a physial defensman then what are they waiting for? Trade? I doubt that because Holland has yet to make a significant trade. Face it, the guy, so far, has not shown he can work in the new CBA, he's done nothing to show he can. Again, it's unbelievable to me that a guy can tell a Norris Trophy winner to accept less, then offer a raise to Shanahan for his playoff flops and his disappearing acts over the season.

Barnes once again you are bang on!

I mean check this out: the way Ken is sleeping through this off-season,

he'll be content to roll out Ed Belfour & maybe Shanny resigned & say we are ready for '07.

And let's not kid ourselves waiting on guys like Kopecky or Hudler.

Huge doubts exist with management about them being able to contribute here.

This is UN - REAL!!

Edited July 5, 2006 by motorcitykid

[aflac9262 211]

Wow - Nick takes a pay cut and it's trashed just like that.

Edited July 5, 2006 by aflac9262

[redwings1914 18]

Fire. Him. Now.

[Heaton 1]

Fire. Him. Now.

What's the point of even saying it? It's not going to happen.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Well, I certainly think we are going to see at least 4 new faces. As for a goalie, wake me up because I missed where we had signed Belfour or Hasek already. Last time I checked there was still time to do something on that front. As for Shanahan, when there is nobody better to replace him then what? I sure don't think Anson Carter is the answer.

If you think Holland is so terrible then you'll just have to try and sleep somehow. I just disagree. We can go on and on. Personally, I don't think the GM job is as easy as you make it out to be. A GM needs to ice a competitive team every year and have a shot. Holland accomplishes this whether through money or what the f*** ever, he gets it done. As for the playoffs, playoff time is tweak time. I don't think we've done enough tweaking, i'll give you that. I'm in agreement there. But I just don't see offseason work as doing a whole heck of alot. If St.Louis wins the division then i'll eat crow. Somehow I doubt it though.

I think Holland is about as good as they come. He's smart, he's experienced and his teams win. We're a decade past ******* 1997 and we're in contention for the President's trophy every year. In all of sports only the Atlanta Braves have had as great a run as us.

As for getting beaten by the lower seed, before people jump off a cliff as a sign that Holland blows and our team sucks, take a look at history and see just how many teams have been beaten by lower seeds. Just like s***.....it happens. I'm not one for imploding the oranization and apparently neither is Holland, Jimmy D, Nill, Illitch, Scotty or anybody else.

Like I said, you'll just have to find a way to sleep at night knowing Holland still has a job every day you wake up. He must be doing something right.

PS: He oferred Elias the big money deal very early into the signing period. I don't think that would qualify as "sitting on his hands" or "waiting for Shanny". He took a shot with the best scorer out there and it didn't work. Guerin? Oh please, as much as i'd like to have him he's no better than shanny and based upon last season he isn't half the performer and not worth half the money so i'm not shedding a tear because we didn't get him.

some people around here would throw money at a ham sandwich if the meat was tough or gritty enough.

Edited July 5, 2006 by GordieSid&Ted

[puckbags 863]

Probably the best post I've read on this site, period.

Agreed..some realism on this site is refreshing!! Thinking we can either sign every free angent thats out there just because LGW posters think we can is stupid! People thinking we can low ball every contract because its necessary to bring in one of the before mentioned free angents is ridiculous too. Bashing the GM who has won 3 cups in 10 years and trimmed a payroll from 80 million to 40 million in one summer is also absurd. Am I dissapointed that we haven't performed in the playoffs recently? Of course I am but we can't win the cup every year. Lets stop living in fantasy land folks and look at how lucky we have been and hopefully how lucky we will be in the future!!!!

[GiantRobot 0]

If Shanny gets 4 mil a year, prepare to offer Datsyuk 7.

Im still floored that we havent made one move...Guerin, Salei, Parrish, Grier, Carter....All of them could have been viable options for us...

Shanny can go piss up a rope for 4 million a year.