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Hudler

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Anyone else see what he said in the Free Press, it seems the kid likes it here....

"I know about (the rumors), but it doesn't mean anything to me right now. I want to play here. That's it. I want to play for the Detroit Red Wings. Hockeytown. I love it here", he said.

:thumbup:

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Just to get off topic i really think Lang has been a bust, and has anyone been watching maltby play of late i think he is hearing the rumors of DET looking for a grinder that can hit and score i think his hits have gone up in the past two games i have really changed my views on him. He made a few big plays last night. I really think lang can be trade baite what do you all think.

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I really think lang can be trade baite what do you all think.

Nope. Which is fine with me. Mike's confident he'll get on another roll and so I am. I don't think he'll be around next year (especially if he's looking for a similarly priced contract as was rumored), but I'm happy we've got him on our side for at least one more spring.

As for Rex... demote Williams again, put him on a line with Lang and Cleary. I don't buy the goals/seconds thing for an instant, but he's still a good shooter for us and it could pay off to be playing with those guys.

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Just to get off topic i really think Lang has been a bust, and has anyone been watching maltby play of late i think he is hearing the rumors of DET looking for a grinder that can hit and score i think his hits have gone up in the past two games i have really changed my views on him. He made a few big plays last night. I really think lang can be trade baite what do you all think.

Langs not going to be trade bait. There may be teams that could use him, but few are going to give up something worthwhile enough for Detroit to lose one of their biggest playoff performers.

Lang saves his best hockey for the playoffs. No need to trade him now. Really, I think Detroit should trade the 1st rounder and dish off Willy for a low-key guy like Roberts or Modin. Detroit drafts well late and the 1st rounder will likely be no higher than about 25th.

As for the Hudler discussion, nobody seems to bring up Filppula getting ice time either, and the reason he probably averages more ice time than Hudler is because he takes some shifts on the PK and hes a more responsible player. Theyre both rookies still getting used to the big league. The last thing Babcock wants to do with either is leave them floudering in a top 6 role which can be a huge detriment to their confidence if things dont go well.

Edited by YoungGuns1340

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Trade him. He is almost usless along the boards.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight, because board play is the only thing that defines a hockey player...................

Anyways, I'm trying to see both sides here...I'm not going to get ahead of myself saying Hudler is one of the next best star talents who will consistently pop up 30 goals a year in a few seasons.

I'd like to see him get a little more time and I think he's deserved some more time to an extent, 10-12 minutes a game, but I'm going to trust Babcock since he's the coach and I'm not, not putting him on a 1st/2nd line consistently, etc.

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Limiting ones mistakes is smart, and being on the ice for few goals scored against is good, but neither is the same thing as being great defensively. Hudler has done well with the limited icetime he's seen, but that doesn't make him elite.

So you're saying unless he becomes a Selke trophy candidate he is worthless?

Who called the kid elite? Point it out.

No one did.

Fact: Hudler has scored goals despite the nonsense ice time he has received. The point about him being a rookie and all that is good, but here's what's happening on the team right now: Z and Pavel are constantly double shifted because they seem to be the only ones producing consistent offense. We have guys who can score but they are buried on the 4th line playing 5 minutes a night. These kids are not ready for 20 minutes but there's no reason they can't play 12 minutes a night. Of course the team is winning so who's going to ***** about it?

The Wings need goal scorers. Hudler has all the instincts and potential to be an excellent goal scorer. I like a big guy like Dany Heatley as much as you but that doesn't mean a guy like Daniel Briere is worthless in this league. No, I am not comparing Hudler to Briere, please don't get trigger happy and try to slap sense into me.

With the situation about the off-season being murky, and guys like Lang and Schneider and Datsyuk being potential free agents this summer, why give up home made talent that can come through?

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And because Jokinen's contract is extremely fair. But I con't see him leaving Florida. It was just an example.

I believe so too. But he's getting frustrated,613 NHL-games played & he's never been in the playoffs.

With the situation about the off-season being murky, and guys like Lang and Schneider and Datsyuk being potential free agents this summer, why give up home made talent that can come through?

Yeah,let the kids stay! :thumbup:

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So you're saying unless he becomes a Selke trophy candidate he is worthless?

Nope, not saying that. I'm saying that in order to get top minutes you need to be more than a one way player. The arguments posted by NN was supposed to make us believe that Hudler is a player with great defensive awareness and ability. He's not. Hudler is doing what he can by limiting his mistakes etc, but with minimal icetime it can not be used as a measuring stick of his defensive ability.

Who called the kid elite? Point it out.

No one did.

From the way people are raving about Hudler being a top scorer measured in seconds, icetime and whatnot, it seems people believe he's a 40-goalscorer being held back by his coach. I'm simply trying to balance the discussion. Top players face top defenders and they are also asked to do more than play offense. Hudler does neither right now.

Fact: Hudler has scored goals despite the nonsense ice time he has received. The point about him being a rookie and all that is good, but here's what's happening on the team right now: Z and Pavel are constantly double shifted because they seem to be the only ones producing consistent offense. We have guys who can score but they are buried on the 4th line playing 5 minutes a night. These kids are not ready for 20 minutes but there's no reason they can't play 12 minutes a night. Of course the team is winning so who's going to ***** about it?

Like I said before, the Red Wings need for more offense is no secret to Babcock, still he choses to limit Hudler's ice time. I think there's a reason. If you think something else that's up to you.

The Wings need goal scorers. Hudler has all the instincts and potential to be an excellent goal scorer. I like a big guy like Dany Heatley as much as you but that doesn't mean a guy like Daniel Briere is worthless in this league. No, I am not comparing Hudler to Briere, please don't get trigger happy and try to slap sense into me.

With the situation about the off-season being murky, and guys like Lang and Schneider and Datsyuk being potential free agents this summer, why give up home made talent that can come through?

Hudler is nothing exceptional in my opinion. His style of play is similar to what the Red Wings already have (smallish, finesse). If he can be used as trade bait in order to address a greater need for the upcoming post season, then I'm all for it. Why? Because you must give up something in order to get something, and Hudler is expendable. It's my opinion.

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If he is small-ish and fits the mold of what we currently have, we better hang on to him. Why? Because he's cheaper than almost everyone on the team, and some of these guys we currently have are not coming back. The logic is clear to me. Am I missing something here?

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Hudler scores a lot of goals the way we want the ideal acquisition to do. Snipes them home. Around the crease. Yes he is small. Yes he'll not win a lot of man to man wrestles. He's still not a softy. He is not Fluery, but he is not a coward.

Edited by GuloGulo

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Hudler scores a lot of goals the way we want the ideal acquisition to do. Snipes them home. Around the crease. Yes he is small. Yes he'll not win a lot of man to man wrestles. He's still not a softy. He is not Fluery, but he is not a coward.

I agree

For his tremendous offensive instincts and creativity he can be the next Martin St.Louis

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If he is small-ish and fits the mold of what we currently have, we better hang on to him. Why? Because he's cheaper than almost everyone on the team, and some of these guys we currently have are not coming back. The logic is clear to me. Am I missing something here?

He's cheap, I'll give you that. He's not going to replace Schneider or Lang. Maybe Datsyuk if he leaves, but then there's Filppula, Kopecky, Grigorenko and Bootland. Perhaps McGrath and Emmerton later on. I don't see the big deal, but maybe it's because I'm not satisfied with what we currently have. I'd like Detroit to become a bigger, meaner and more physical team. Hence, status qou and Jiri Hudler doesn't interest me that much.

Plus, I also think Detroit has a shot at advancing further in the postseason this year. Giving Hudler up is a small price to pay to land a gritty, physical goalscorer that could help achieving this. Don't worry though, I got your point.

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Z and Pavel are constantly double shifted because they seem to be the only ones producing consistent offense. We have guys who can score but they are buried on the 4th line playing 5 minutes a night. These kids are not ready for 20 minutes but there's no reason they can't play 12 minutes a night. Of course the team is winning so who's going to ***** about it?

There's nothing wrong with Z and Datsyuk getting 20-22 mins a night, I'd hope that they still get it even if we had tons of secondary scoring.

My stance with Hudler is that he seems to be thriving right now with limited minutes, when he's gotten regular shifts and played on the PP regular shifts during the game he hasn't done as much as his "nonsense" 5-9 minutes a game. I think it has more to do with his matchups right now than anything. I don't want to see Hudler traded, he'll be in a bigger role next season.

Edited by Heaton

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There's nothing wrong with Z and Datsyuk getting 20-22 mins a night, I'd hope that they still get it even if we had tons of secondary scoring.

My stance with Hudler is that he seems to be thriving right now with limited minutes, when he's gotten regular shifts and played on the PP regular shifts during the game he hasn't done as much as his "nonsense" 5-9 minutes a game. I think it has more to do with his matchups right now than anything. I don't want to see Hudler traded, he'll be in a bigger role next season.

Exactly!

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Nope, not saying that. I'm saying that in order to get top minutes you need to be more than a one way player. The arguments posted by NN was supposed to make us believe that Hudler is a player with great defensive awareness and ability. He's not. Hudler is doing what he can by limiting his mistakes etc, but with minimal icetime it can not be used as a measuring stick of his defensive ability.

From the way people are raving about Hudler being a top scorer measured in seconds, icetime and whatnot, it seems people believe he's a 40-goalscorer being held back by his coach. I'm simply trying to balance the discussion. Top players face top defenders and they are also asked to do more than play offense. Hudler does neither right now.

Like I said before, the Red Wings need for more offense is no secret to Babcock, still he choses to limit Hudler's ice time. I think there's a reason. If you think something else that's up to you.

Hudler is nothing exceptional in my opinion. His style of play is similar to what the Red Wings already have (smallish, finesse). If he can be used as trade bait in order to address a greater need for the upcoming post season, then I'm all for it. Why? Because you must give up something in order to get something, and Hudler is expendable. It's my opinion.

Hudler is the only Wing scoring better than .13 goals who doesn't get better than 14 minutes a game; Hudler does it in under 9. If you adjust Hudler's 8:28 to the aforementioned 14 minutes--meaning he is still seeing less ice than anyone else above that mark--he would be at .31 GPG, better than Datsyuk and in fourth place on the team. At that rate, he would have 15 goals in 48 games (compare with Datsyuk's 15 in 51), and if he had played all 54, that would be 17 goals, good for sole possession of third place on the team.

And that doesn't even take into account that Hudler is the most effective PP scorer we have when you consider time--Multiply by 3.5, and you get 7 goals in 4:05, compared with Holmstrom's team-leading 7 in 4:14, with three extra games, or Zetterberg's 6 in 4:05, with six extra games.

Hudler should be getting at the very least top-nine ice time. As it stands, in even strength ice time per game, Hudler is not even top twelve among forwards, and is only top nine among forwards for PP ice.

The lines should be

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Hudler/Lang/Cleary

Franzen/Filppula/Williams

Maltby/Draper/Langfeld

When healthy, lines 3 and 4:

Kopecky/Filppula/Samuelsson

Maltby/Draper/Franzen

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Hudler is the only Wing scoring better than .13 goals who doesn't get better than 14 minutes a game; Hudler does it in under 9. If you adjust Hudler's 8:28 to the aforementioned 14 minutes--meaning he is still seeing less ice than anyone else above that mark--he would be at .31 GPG, better than Datsyuk and in fourth place on the team. At that rate, he would have 15 goals in 48 games (compare with Datsyuk's 15 in 51), and if he had played all 54, that would be 17 goals, good for sole possession of third place on the team.

And that doesn't even take into account that Hudler is the most effective PP scorer we have when you consider time--Multiply by 3.5, and you get 7 goals in 4:05, compared with Holmstrom's team-leading 7 in 4:14, with three extra games, or Zetterberg's 6 in 4:05, with six extra games.

Hudler should be getting at the very least top-nine ice time. As it stands, in even strength ice time per game, Hudler is not even top twelve among forwards, and is only top nine among forwards for PP ice.

The lines should be

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Hudler/Lang/Cleary

Franzen/Filppula/Williams

Maltby/Draper/Langfeld

When healthy, lines 3 and 4:

Kopecky/Filppula/Samuelsson

Maltby/Draper/Franzen

Eva, you just don't get it do you? All your if's, but's and nice calculations doesn't mean jack to me. It's nothing but numbers. There's no way of estimating a player's performance by using a certain multiplier to make up for the games or minutes he didn't play. Look at what Heaton just posted. Hudler hasn't looked that impressive when given extra time.

If you wanna make use of your numbers and statistical talents, I suggest you analyze empirical data, like the draft or something. ;)

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February 7, Detroit News: In 48 games, Hudler is averaging 8 minutes, 28 seconds, of ice time. Yet, Hudler has nine goals, tied with Jason Williams and Kris Draper for ninth on the team.

"Huds scores more per shift than anyone in the league," coach Mike Babcock said. "He's done a real good job with his minutes. He has the ability to score."

...

"I try to do my best and prepare for every shift and take advantage of it," said Hudler, who is getting 7-10 shifts a game. "It's about confidence and being ready and having your legs ready for every shift."

Said Babcock: "He gets ice time in practice every day he's learning from good players. As he gets better, he may one day take someone else's job and he'll play more minutes. Now, it's the process of getting better."

I say that this sum's it up, Huds is still a work in progress and he know's that too. Coaching staff know what they have and are taking their time in making sure he become's a better all round player.

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Hudler is the only Wing scoring better than .13 goals who doesn't get better than 14 minutes a game; Hudler does it in under 9. If you adjust Hudler's 8:28 to the aforementioned 14 minutes--meaning he is still seeing less ice than anyone else above that mark--he would be at .31 GPG, better than Datsyuk and in fourth place on the team. At that rate, he would have 15 goals in 48 games (compare with Datsyuk's 15 in 51), and if he had played all 54, that would be 17 goals, good for sole possession of third place on the team.

And that doesn't even take into account that Hudler is the most effective PP scorer we have when you consider time--Multiply by 3.5, and you get 7 goals in 4:05, compared with Holmstrom's team-leading 7 in 4:14, with three extra games, or Zetterberg's 6 in 4:05, with six extra games.

Hudler should be getting at the very least top-nine ice time. As it stands, in even strength ice time per game, Hudler is not even top twelve among forwards, and is only top nine among forwards for PP ice.

Math does NOT = hockey. Filling in extra numbers with loose extrapolation does not equal reality. Besides, I would argue that it is not a linear calculation with developing theoretical points that he would earn with additional ice time. I would propose that it is more of a exponential argument. He is extremely productive with the low time that he recieves and that with additional time his production would fall off. I just think there is a fundamental flaw with using linear functions. Using the exponential ideas that I have offered are closer to reality, but make it much harder to calculate.

Oww. My head hurts.

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Quick-draw Hudler

Speaking of Rex.. little article on him from M-Live.

Basically talking about the same thing we are saying here. Limited ice time and he's still scoring.

JUST GIVE THE GUY SOME MORE MINUTES!! He deserves it.

I remember a year or so ago Babs would say that Huds wasn't ready and that he was a liability, that it would take a few more years until he'd be 'ready.' Well, it seems as though he's finally giving the guy credit which is always a good thing. He's seeing what us fans are so maybe he oughta up his ice time.

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Trade him. He is almost usless along the boards.

So a player has no value to this team unless he is a complete force along the boards? That is a very simple way to form a team! Keep the kid around because he can put the puck in the back of the net, and his still has tons of upside. I agree with a previous post that the only way he should be traded is if it is a deal that is too good to pass up, and is nothing but a win for Detroit.

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I find it somewhat hard to believe that he will be traded simply because he isn't getting enough ice time to "showcase" to other teams.

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Just to get off topic i really think Lang has been a bust, and has anyone been watching maltby play of late i think he is hearing the rumors of DET looking for a grinder that can hit and score i think his hits have gone up in the past two games i have really changed my views on him. He made a few big plays last night. I really think lang can be trade baite what do you all think.

Know what you mean about Maltby. He was playing like the old Malts wasn't he. Good to see.

As for Lang, watching him drives me fricking nuts, but he has shown up in the playoffs and that makes it worthwhile in the end.

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Hudler is the only Wing scoring better than .13 goals who doesn't get better than 14 minutes a game; Hudler does it in under 9. If you adjust Hudler's 8:28 to the aforementioned 14 minutes--meaning he is still seeing less ice than anyone else above that mark--he would be at .31 GPG, better than Datsyuk and in fourth place on the team. At that rate, he would have 15 goals in 48 games (compare with Datsyuk's 15 in 51), and if he had played all 54, that would be 17 goals, good for sole possession of third place on the team.

And that doesn't even take into account that Hudler is the most effective PP scorer we have when you consider time--Multiply by 3.5, and you get 7 goals in 4:05, compared with Holmstrom's team-leading 7 in 4:14, with three extra games, or Zetterberg's 6 in 4:05, with six extra games.

Hudler should be getting at the very least top-nine ice time. As it stands, in even strength ice time per game, Hudler is not even top twelve among forwards, and is only top nine among forwards for PP ice.

The lines should be

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Hudler/Lang/Cleary

Franzen/Filppula/Williams

Maltby/Draper/Langfeld

When healthy, lines 3 and 4:

Kopecky/Filppula/Samuelsson

Maltby/Draper/Franzen

And boys and girls, we have learned our Algebra lesson today. Now do some homework damn it! :lol:

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He's cheap, I'll give you that. He's not going to replace Schneider or Lang. Maybe Datsyuk if he leaves, but then there's Filppula, Kopecky, Grigorenko and Bootland. Perhaps McGrath and Emmerton later on. I don't see the big deal, but maybe it's because I'm not satisfied with what we currently have. I'd like Detroit to become a bigger, meaner and more physical team. Hence, status qou and Jiri Hudler doesn't interest me that much.

Plus, I also think Detroit has a shot at advancing further in the postseason this year. Giving Hudler up is a small price to pay to land a gritty, physical goalscorer that could help achieving this. Don't worry though, I got your point.

Bootland is done in this organization. Grigorenko, who knows if he is even coming over. Flip, yes. Kopecky is a completely different skill set. All of these guys are not the same player hence you can't rank them the way you did. McGrath is in the freakin' ECHL right now. Emmerton is quite a few years away.

We would ALL love for Detroit to become a bigger, stronger team. Why don't you guys find us a player who is big and strong and can score and fight, and has a GM who is willing to trade him. Name ONE. And name a guy who we don't have to empty out the tank for.

I get your point, too RB! Please, I am all for getting bigger and stronger but let's be realistic here.

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