135 replies to this topic

[Icteria virens]

Are you really this thick-headed? You've proven nothing other than TSN and Sportsnet's scouting reports are inaccurate and for the most part useless. They're both the same because they're written by a service called Forecaster. I doubt Forecaster really takes the time to watch the games and write up accurate scouting reports.

These generic scouting reports arent the end-all-be-all in arguments. Do you watch the Red Wings or do you read the scouting reports?

Kronwall has shown this year that he's capable of joining the rush and laying opponents out. His weaknesses have been clearing the crease and untimely give aways. There, thats my scouting report on him. When he's given more time on the PP and gains more experience his numbers will go up and his give aways will hopefully go down. His potential is a top pairing defenseman.

go back and re-read threads about him right here on this board, everybody gushes about his offensive upside and his physicallity, this is general knowledge. The DRW's feel the exact same way about him too. If you don't know that then you haven't been paying attention. Why did we draft him first overall then?

Capable of joining the rush? big deal - so does Lebda

as soon as anybody say anything even slightly negative about a Red Wing everybody jumps all over them saying that person wants them traded - right now we are overpaying him based on potential, it's dangerous to lock up a guy for 5 years in the new NHL based on potential. If we overpaided all our young players like Cleary, Lebda, Flipper etc. we'd be up a creek.

The bottom line is he hasn't come close to living up to expectations of how he played in Sweden, the Olympics where he was the only non-NHL'er on the squad and in the AHL. the type of game he's played in the NHL is nothing like it, he doesn't deserve to make 3mil a year and tying up an injury-prone player like that for 5 years in the new NHL is stupid.

go back and re-read my posts - I never said he should be traded

[Earthhuman]

The comparison to Lebda:

1) One of his goals CAME from Kronwall, one was a fluke shot from he blueline (a wrist shot... and Kronwall has bad shot selection?).

2) Lebda can't get the puck out of the zone. He always passes to his partner because he doesn't trust his outlet passing. He has a higher +/- rating because he is partnered with Chelios (partly, although he is decent defensively).

3) 7 of his 10 assists were secondary... make what you will of that stat. Lang (twice), and Zetterberg benefited from his 'outstanding' second playmaking.

(This is as of about Christmas, when I got CI and could actually watch them).

4) Kronwall's longest pointless streak was 7 games, which came at the beginning of the season(with 11 points in his last 20 games). Lebda has had 2 15 game pointless streaks (with 6 points in his last 20 games).

5) Lebda is a -2 in his last 20 games, Kronwall is a -3 in his last 20... pretty even there. Take out last nights game and they are even (and that was a bad game for Kronwall).

Edited by Earthhuman, 10 February 2007 - 04:36 PM.

[esteef]

2) Lebda can't get the puck out of the zone. He always passes to his partner because he doesn't trust his outlet passing. He has a higher +/- rating because he is partnered with Chelios (partly, although he is decent defensively).

I agree on the +/-, it's just another silly stat that probably feeds into those ridiculous scouting reports. Also, I see Lebda quite often take the puck all the way to the other net and get a great scoring chance just by simply outskating everyone on the ice. (In fact, he did it last game against the Blues when the Wings were having trouble getting through the neutral zone.) Anyway, I don't recall him having trouble with outlet passing, at least not like Kronwall.

esteef

*edited for spelling

Edited by esteef, 10 February 2007 - 07:44 PM.

[Rice]

go back and re-read threads about him right here on this board, everybody gushes about his offensive upside and his physicallity, this is general knowledge. The DRW's feel the exact same way about him too. If you don't know that then you haven't been paying attention. Why did we draft him first overall then?

Capable of joining the rush? big deal - so does Lebda

The bottom line is he hasn't come close to living up to expectations of how he played in Sweden, the Olympics where he was the only non-NHL'er on the squad and in the AHL. the type of game he's played in the NHL is nothing like it, he doesn't deserve to make 3mil a year and tying up an injury-prone player like that for 5 years in the new NHL is stupid.

He does have offensive upside, and being capable of joining the rush is a big part of that. I don't get how he's disappointed you physically. He's thrown some big hits at big guys this year. It's too early to say whether his contract was a mistake, but just because he doesnt live up to your expectations (which apparently come from TSN's scouting reports) doesn't mean he wont end up being a top pairing guy.

[SoupGuru]

We have a lot of players with potential. Some with a lot of potential. Most of them are in Grand Rapids or elsewhere in the world, gaining the experience necessary to compete at the NHL level. When they're ready to contribute, they're brought up and are eased into the system with more ice time as they mature.

I think some people are hinting that Kronwall isn't contributing as much to his team as he was expected to. You can have all the potential in the world but if you suck now, there's no reason to be on the team.

Is it acceptable for other players on this team to suck so long as they have potential? Williams has a lot of potential but he's a little snakebitten now as well. He just needs to find his stride and get comfortable again. We've all seen that he has skill and is capable of putting up numbers. But why is everyone screaming for him to get the boot and yet everyone is willing to wait years for Kronwall to come around?

[Icteria virens]

He does have offensive upside, and being capable of joining the rush is a big part of that. I don't get how he's disappointed you physically. He's thrown some big hits at big guys this year. It's too early to say whether his contract was a mistake, but just because he doesnt live up to your expectations (which apparently come from TSN's scouting reports) doesn't mean he wont end up being a top pairing guy.

offensive upside - not in the NHL

physically - well he's shown to be injury prone, 5 years in today's NHL is a long time, one day he 'may' be playing above his contract, the problem is he isn't now and is overpaid. If we were overpaying Hudler, Cleary, Flipper alot of people would be very upset but it's ok with Kronwall?

my expectation do not come from TSN, like I said before, everyone knows he was tearing up the AHL and showed tremendous offensive upside while there among the hitting ability. Everyone knows he was the only non-NHL'er on team Sweden. Everyone had high hopes for him and that's why he's been a disappointment. They didn't draft him in the first round because he was scouted as a good stay-at-home d-man who makes solid decisions with the puck and was expected to chip in the occational goal every now and then. The fact that he hasn't done it in the NHL is disappointing.

I agree he could end up a top pairing guy but the longer he doesn't live up to his billing 'at the NHL level' the longer he's overpaid.

I don't want him traded, (I never once said this in any of my posts) and want him to play the type of hockey at the NHL level that he's shown in Sweden, AHL etc.

[eva unit zero]

Everyone knows he was the only non-NHL'er on team Sweden.

That was Zetterberg in 2002. Kronwall had half a season of NHL play under his belt in 2006, as well as a selection to the all-tournament team at the WCs the year prior.

[ZatasGirl40]

i think he's awful....i'm sick of seeing him pass right in front of our net. definitely trade him.

[SouthernWingsFan]

i think he's awful....i'm sick of seeing him pass right in front of our net. definitely trade him.

So you'd rather have a guy like Lilja or one of the minor-leaguers have more playing time than Kronwall?

[ZatasGirl40]

So you'd rather have a guy like Lilja or one of the minor-leaguers have more playing time than Kronwall?

hellllll no. I think liljas even more worthless than kronwall. i just think he needs to step up his game majorly.

[Earthhuman]

hellllll no. I think liljas even more worthless than kronwall. i just think he needs to step up his game majorly.

Oh ok, but not until we trade him?... I don't get where you stand.

He's making less than 2 million a year (for now) and is playing at that level. If you give him time, he'll come around. What is it with Detroit fans and wanting big results immediately? Have some patience.

[betterREDthandead]

I have yet to chime in on this one, but here's my piece: Kronwall, for the hype, has been a minor disappointment. He's not a bust, but he's not playing like a first rounder. And he's 26, which means he's rapidly leaving the time of his career where he can be expected to be going through growing pains.

The Wings have no shortage of defensemen, but are hurting at forward, and are very likely to get even worse in that respect since Datsyuk is likely to leave. Langfeld's not the answer to anything, he's just a younger Mark Mowers. The Wings have three defensemen that can step up to the plate next year, in Quincey, Meech, and Ericsson, and another that the brass thinks can challenge for a spot: Kindl. What this all adds up to is that Kronwall is PRIME trade fodder during the summer, in order to bring in a forward. Think along the lines of to Ottawa for Mike Fisher. I think, if Datsyuk is lost, Holland would be looking into that as a possibility.

[gowings1985]

Yeah he's definately not going anywhere but he has tremendous potential, just give him some time and he will be fine. And the offensive skill is there, since you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't there buddy, he just needs some time to develop. He no Lidstrom but his influence will definately help his growth. No trade because he will develop into a great D and nobody will give him 3 mil a year...not yet at least.

[Rice]

The Wings have three defensemen that can step up to the plate next year, in Quincey, Meech, and Ericsson, and another that the brass thinks can challenge for a spot: Kindl. What this all adds up to is that Kronwall is PRIME trade fodder during the summer, in order to bring in a forward. Think along the lines of to Ottawa for Mike Fisher. I think, if Datsyuk is lost, Holland would be looking into that as a possibility.

Kronwall isn't going anywhere. The Wings have some promising defensemen but Kronwall and Kindl are the only two who project to be offensive minded guys. Quincey, Meech, and Ericsson are all more physical stay-at-home guys. I also really doubt Meech will ever be a top-four guy in the NHL.

[betterREDthandead]

Kronwall isn't going anywhere. The Wings have some promising defensemen but Kronwall and Kindl are the only two who project to be offensive minded guys. Quincey, Meech, and Ericsson are all more physical stay-at-home guys. I also really doubt Meech will ever be a top-four guy in the NHL.

I don't think Quincey will, either. But the Wings don't need six top-four defensemen. Lebda can also provide a little offense from the blue line. They'll need scoring forwards if Datsyuk leaves, though, and you trade from strength to fill weakness. Kronwall is the one guy they have that can bring in scoring help from the second line or better. Sure, Lidstrom, Schneider, and Chelios won't be around forever, but the Wings can't spend all of next summer trying to build for 2010.

[Heroes of Hockeytown]

I don't think Quincey will, either. But the Wings don't need six top-four defensemen. Lebda can also provide a little offense from the blue line. They'll need scoring forwards if Datsyuk leaves, though, and you trade from strength to fill weakness. Kronwall is the one guy they have that can bring in scoring help from the second line or better. Sure, Lidstrom, Schneider, and Chelios won't be around forever, but the Wings can't spend all of next summer trying to build for 2010.

Lebda doesn't look to be a top four guy in my crystal ball. Great speed, adequate defensive awareness, not really much going on in the other end. If Datsyuk leaves you can bet the Wings will take a run at some UFAs to fill the gap, rather than trade the guy they gave a five year deal to.