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To trade, or not to trade...


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#41 YoungGuns1340

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 01:45 PM

The article says Bert might play this weekend or early next week. I have a feeling the Wings might actually go after Bertuzzi. His price probably wont be that high and other teams will probably stay away from him. It would be a risk, but at the very least he could be a big strong body in the lineup even if he doesnt produce like crazy. And if Willy was part of the deal, the simple fact that he wouldnt be on the ice would improve the team.

Edited by YoungGuns1340, 17 February 2007 - 01:45 PM.

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#42 Rice

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 01:49 PM

QUOTE(Drake_Marcus @ February 17, 2007 - 01:34PM) View Post

But honestly, as long as Hitchcock walks into the offseason with the drive to add a top notch scoring winger and hopefully fixing the centre issues of the second line then I'm happy.

I hope that was a typo.

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In a 2005 study published by the journal Nature, researchers at Durham University in England concluded that, across a range of sports, we found that wearing red is consistently associated with a higher probability of winning. The researchers also suggested that red's effect may subconsciously intimidate opponents in athletic contests, especially when the athletes are equal in skill and strength.

#43 Stu in Israel

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 02:01 PM

Hey "SouthernWingsFan," I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years and I noticed that you mentioned "Jack," so for you, and anyone else who's interested, click on this link and find-out about "Jack Schitt." If the link doesn't work copy it onto a search engine address bar.

Know Jack Video

#44 betterREDthandead

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 02:17 PM

QUOTE(FinRedWing @ February 17, 2007 - 10:07AM) View Post

It's always cup or bust for the Wings nowadays.
I think we operate too close to the cap max just to be pleased to make the playoffs.
Besides,I bet all the players expect and hope to win the cup every season (especially when they play for "bigger" teams like the Wings).
Why should we fans be any different?

Because the players' job is to try and win the Cup. They ought to be expected to give it their all for it and at least believe it can happen. We're just along for the ride. I don't think "Cup or bust" is realistic or even a good idea. Mortgage the future for a slightly improved shot at the Cup this year? Three to five years down the road, how do you expect to maintain that level of excellence if you keep taking moon shots?
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#45 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 03:04 PM

According to TSN, St. Louis wants a first round pick and a prospect (Flip... Kindl...) for either Guerin or Tkachuk.

At prices like that, we either need a lot of GMs to laugh in his face until the price drops, pick up some of the less valuable rentals, or stand pat. At this point, the way the prices are out there, I wouldn't feel bad if a move wasn't made.
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#46 HockeyCrazy3033

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 03:06 PM

Holland will do something.

He knows what the team needs and that's all that matters.
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#47 ZetterBurger40

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 03:07 PM

QUOTE(raidedredwing2 @ February 17, 2007 - 03:25AM) View Post

how many times has this happened at the trade deadline..... holland has high hopes....... and all the hype is up....... i wouldnt be supprised if we dont make a move... And that will disapoint me because players like (lang, williams, maltby) are disapointing me

Are you serious? HOLLAND'S team remains one of the premier teams in the NHL with what, $8 mill in cap-space remaining? Sounds like a pretty good GM (with the cap) to me- just because a bunch of trade happy fans on the internet are foaming at the mouth for him to make a blockbuster move that wouldn't make sense for the team, doesn't mean that he should- and he won't. He's done, and will continue to do what's best for the team (present and long-term), not to appease EA Sports sofa GMs.

#48 Crymson

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 03:13 PM

QUOTE(betterREDthandead @ February 17, 2007 - 10:17AM) View Post

Has everyone forgotten what this team looked like going into Traverse City this past summer? For those who have, which appears to be most, I'll sum it up. The Red Wings looked a lot like this:

???

We had absolutely NO IDEA we'd be in this position right now, fighting for a spot at the top of the conference, possibly the league. There wasn't a person on this board, in the organization, or in the media, who expected the Wings to be a serious Cup contender at this point in the season. It wasn't a rebuilding year, more of a re-evaluating year. Take a step back, see what these players were capable of and go from there.

Remember all the saying we'd just be happy if we made the playoffs and that would be nice because of all the turnover and let's not get our expectations too high this year? So much for that, I guess.

That's why Holland didn't bother going after these guys in the offseason. Why mess with something that you already don't have a clue how it'll turn out, and tie up future-wasting money in the process? The answer to Lou's question, Did you not expect this?, is a huge NO!, of course not, not a single one of us expected the Wings to be where they are now. Hindsight is always 20/20.



Absolutely. Thumbs up on this one. Unfortunately, it seems that the abundant numbers of Wings fans, when they see a few pieces of the cake, start feeling entitled to the entire thing.

QUOTE(Drake_Marcus @ February 17, 2007 - 11:34AM) View Post

Well to me that article reads like an attempt to soften the blow for wings fans when nothing big happens.

But honestly, as long as Hitchcock walks into the offseason with the drive to add a top notch scoring winger and hopefully fixing the centre issues of the second line then I'm happy.

This year isn't the last year the Wings will be cup contenders! So I'd say it's very, very foolish to make a last ditch effort to bring the cup this season by sacrificing the future, and trading Huds or Flips would have been just that.

Dump J-Willy, line up a Lindstrom prodigy (which some would argue has already been done!) and make sure we've got someone nail down long term for after Hasek retires (again, some see Howard as just this, but I'm not convinced until I see him play in the NHL- not that I'm saying he's bad, but rather I'm wary about prospects until they actually hit the NHL ice).

Ideally then July rolls around: Dats is still wearing a Wings jersey, Lids is signed on for 2 more years minimum, Hasek has proven he's not as injury prone now that he's watching himself and protecting his groin, a great future defense prospect is working out and we have some Lids like career players to look forward to.

I love knowing that a player who's respected and awed league wide is a career Red Wing. But then again who doesn't want that for their favourite team?


Noooo Drake NOOOOO..... you spelled Lidstrom wrong! NOOOO!!!!

Anyway, agreed otherwise-- Lang and Willy need to go. I never thought I'd say this, but I actually miss Sammy now.

Edited by Crymson, 17 February 2007 - 03:13 PM.


#49 Rice

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 03:30 PM

QUOTE(ZetterBurger40 @ February 17, 2007 - 03:07PM) View Post

Are you serious? HOLLAND'S team remains one of the premier teams in the NHL with what, $8 mill in cap-space remaining?

I agree with what you said but the Wings have $2 million in cap space.
In a 2005 study published by the journal Nature, researchers at Durham University in England concluded that, across a range of sports, we found that wearing red is consistently associated with a higher probability of winning. The researchers also suggested that red's effect may subconsciously intimidate opponents in athletic contests, especially when the athletes are equal in skill and strength.

#50 GuloGulo

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 03:33 PM

QUOTE(ARice89 @ February 17, 2007 - 09:30PM) View Post

I agree with what you said but the Wings have $2 million in cap space.


Prorated over the season it means a little more, no?

Anyway. Hmm... a move should be made, but Holland should stay away from the loan sharks in St Louis.
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#51 Rice

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 03:39 PM

QUOTE(GuloGulo @ February 17, 2007 - 03:33PM) View Post

Prorated over the season it means a little more, no?

It's around $7 million prorated, but saying they're $7 million under the cap isn't true.
In a 2005 study published by the journal Nature, researchers at Durham University in England concluded that, across a range of sports, we found that wearing red is consistently associated with a higher probability of winning. The researchers also suggested that red's effect may subconsciously intimidate opponents in athletic contests, especially when the athletes are equal in skill and strength.

#52 regwinguofmfan

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 04:22 PM

The reason I am harsh on Holland:

He said the team needed to get tougher after last seasons playoffs. He recognized the flaw in the team. We then preceed to lose our two toughest players, one to retirement and one to free agency. We filled that gap by signing Greg Johnson and Markov.

We are softer than last year.

How has this guy done anything to make this team stronger for the playoffs?

By signing Hasek? So he gambled the season on fragile Hasek?

I want you all to tell me HOW this team is better prepared for the playoffs this year than the last few.

If you can show me I will lay off Holland, but if you look at it objectively, this team has less grit and is overall a worse team than last years playoff team.

I guess you are all thinking Hasek will pull this one out?

#53 ShanahanMan

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 04:30 PM

the asking price for these star players is just way too high and i don't think we're gonna do it. Personally, I believe we are gonna do a trade but its not gonna be a top league winger. I think we're gonna give off maybe 1 prospect, Williams, and/or a draft pick and get a SOLID winger. Lapointe? Nolan? I don't think they would be bad at all.....and even though i really don't like Bertuzzi, I think he'd be a good fit on the team but with all the injuries its just waaaaaay too risky.

Edited by shanahanman, 17 February 2007 - 04:34 PM.



I HATE JASON WILLIAMS

#54 chooch

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 04:32 PM

QUOTE(Lou_Siffer @ February 17, 2007 - 12:04PM) View Post

Exactly. We sat and wait while Kenny "bided his time", as people like to say, and signed none of that playoff grit we were supposed to get in the offseason. The upcoming deadline is now D-day for him, time to show that waitng it out and signing nobody was the right move. Now we're hearing from Holland about how trade prices are too high and whatnot...well buddy then why didnt you f'n SIGN some guys in the offseason then! Did you not expect this?




He signed Danny Markov ($2.5M)

As of yesterday he has $1.8M cap room (that's before you subtract the salaries of Langfeld, Norton, Ellis, Liv Howard, and Hussey during their times with the club. You can add back about 1.2M for the Fischer salary offset. He's also in for up to $1.4M in bonuses for Chelios and Hasek. This is Money he couldn't use at the beginning of the year, but can now roll into next season if necessary. He couldn't have signed Markov and had anything left for Guerin ($2M + $400K bonus), or Nolan ($1.225M). Even if he squeezed every penny out of the cap and he signed Guerin or Nolan, he would have had NO CAP ROOM for the balance of the year.
Holland Played It Right.

Edited by chooch, 17 February 2007 - 04:34 PM.


#55 Zeke

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 04:35 PM

QUOTE(shanahanman @ February 17, 2007 - 04:30PM) View Post

the asking price for these star players is just way too high and i don't think we're gonna do it. Personally, I believe we are gonna do a trade but its not gonna be a top league winger. I think we're gonna give off maybe 1 prospect, Williams, and/or a draft pick and get a SOLID winger. Lapointe? Nolan? I don't think they would be bad at all.

This team is bult to beat any team in a one game series.
In best out of 7,we always get outmuscled and the coaching staff cannot adapt to the oppositions' strategies.
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#56 chooch

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 04:40 PM

QUOTE(Heroes of Hockeytown @ February 17, 2007 - 03:04PM) View Post

According to TSN, St. Louis wants a first round pick and a prospect (Flip... Kindl...) for either Guerin or Tkachuk.

At prices like that, we either need a lot of GMs to laugh in his face until the price drops, pick up some of the less valuable rentals, or stand pat. At this point, the way the prices are out there, I wouldn't feel bad if a move wasn't made.



Absolutely

My new shopping list (partial)
Gratton (Chris) (not sure ... he's kinda up and down)
Thornton (Scott)
Sturm
Roberts
LaPerriere
Nolan
Scatchard
Laraque
Ricci (injured I think)
Saprykin
Torres
Drake
Pettinger
Sutherby
Zubrus

etc.

#57 Lou_Siffer

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 04:42 PM

QUOTE(chooch @ February 17, 2007 - 04:32PM) View Post

He signed Danny Markov ($2.5M)

As of yesterday he has $1.8M cap room (that's before you subtract the salaries of Langfeld, Norton, Ellis, Liv Howard, and Hussey during their times with the club. You can add back about 1.2M for the Fischer salary offset. He's also in for up to $1.4M in bonuses for Chelios and Hasek. This is Money he couldn't use at the beginning of the year, but can now roll into next season if necessary. He couldn't have signed Markov and had anything left for Guerin ($2M + $400K bonus), or Nolan ($1.225M). Even if he squeezed every penny out of the cap and he signed Guerin or Nolan, he would have had NO CAP ROOM for the balance of the year.
Holland Played It Right.


Markov hardly helps the need for grit at forward. I dont know the specifics of the cap money but what i do know is Holland was offering 4 million, possibly 4.5, to Shanahan. Money was there to make additions upfront. All i remember hearing was that Kenny would wait till the deadline to address these needs...well over the next 10 days is that time. If he's not willing to part with anything via trade then what, he's biding his time till next offseason?
Aaron Downey tally = 4 Wins (Mclaren, PARROS, *Laperriere*, Wisniewski) - 1 L (**Boll**) - 5 Draws (Walker, Fedoruk, Davison, Shelley, O'Donnell)

(* = beatdown) (** = at the end of a shift)

Preseason prediction - Anaheim over Philadelphia in 6 (ok, well i'll settle for one right...)

#58 chooch

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE(Lou_Siffer @ February 17, 2007 - 04:42PM) View Post

Markov hardly helps the need for grit at forward. I dont know the specifics of the cap money but what i do know is Holland was offering 4 million, possibly 4.5, to Shanahan. Money was there to make additions upfront. All i remember hearing was that Kenny would wait till the deadline to address these needs...well over the next 10 days is that time. If he's not willing to part with anything via trade then what, he's biding his time till next offseason?



He could have optioned Lebda and Filpulla; and he could have risked Hudler and Kopecky to waivers. He could also have skipped the Norton signing. By doing these things he might have squeezed out Guerin type money and still had a little bit of safety room.

Markov was signed two months after Shanny went away. It's the same money. Look at it this way. Would you rather have Jason Wooley or a gritty forward. Those are your choices.

Edited by chooch, 17 February 2007 - 04:50 PM.


#59 Lou_Siffer

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 04:56 PM

QUOTE(chooch @ February 17, 2007 - 04:49PM) View Post

He could have optioned Lebda and Filpulla; and he could have risked Hudler and Kopecky to waivers. He could also have skipped the Norton signing. By doing these things he might have squeezed out Guerin type money and still had a little bit of safety room.

Markov was signed two months after Shanny went away. It's the same money. Look at it this way. Would you rather have Jason Wooley or a gritty forward. Those are your choices.


I'll take the gritty forward. Ok ....when do i get it?!


Aaron Downey tally = 4 Wins (Mclaren, PARROS, *Laperriere*, Wisniewski) - 1 L (**Boll**) - 5 Draws (Walker, Fedoruk, Davison, Shelley, O'Donnell)

(* = beatdown) (** = at the end of a shift)

Preseason prediction - Anaheim over Philadelphia in 6 (ok, well i'll settle for one right...)

#60 Heroes of Hockeytown

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Posted 17 February 2007 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE(Lou_Siffer @ February 17, 2007 - 04:42PM) View Post

If he's not willing to part with anything via trade then what, he's biding his time till next offseason?

Well, Lou, how do you feel about dealing Flip or Kindl? I know you don't give a s*** about Rex, but what about those two?
"We've been in the same spot all year long. We won 50 games for the fourth year in a row. People think we're just hum-drum and boring.
No, you know what we are, we're good. You can't do what we do every single day and not be good." - Mike Babcock





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