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5 Reason's Datsyuk Will NOT Be Traded


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#41 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:32 AM

QUOTE(bringback91 @ February 19, 2007 - 09:28AM) View Post

Actually I think Dats assisted on 2 or 3 of Z's goals, the big one being when Dats took the puck along the boards and worked through 2 defenders to send the puck to Z in the slot for an easy goal. Two of Z's other goals were rebound tap-in's. Right place at the right time for sure, but no Crosbyesque magic there. Anyway all that's (last years playoffs) been bashed into oblivion a million times. But to suggest that Z needs no one, is even more ridiculous. Besides the fact I'm sure Z doesn't share your opinion.

Every player needs a little help here and there, but the Wings management has said plenty of times that when a player is struggling, all they have to do is put them on a line with Z, and they come right around. While Dats is a hell of a play maker, Z is the only one I've heard them say that about.

Sidenote: Crosbyesque..........its not like Crosby doesn't get his share of normal goals. In fact, he gets plenty of them.
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#42 bringback91

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:35 AM

QUOTE(RyanBarnes! @ February 19, 2007 - 10:25AM) View Post

Zetterberg could probably carry the line of Cleary and Williams. It couldn't get much worse than now, but good luck having either Datsyuk or Lang play wing. Which is another reason why Zetterberg is superior to Datsyuk, he is flexible.

It couldn't get any worse, I say in reality to move Flip up there and Lang down, but that's not going to happen. Datsyuk has been playing wing succsessfully for over 30 games now, he's proven the ablility too. With Z at such a bargin, the Wings could in all reality "over pay" for Dats for 2 more years, and still sign a number of free agents whilst keeping both on the team. A win-win, no?

#43 RyanBarnes!

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:39 AM

QUOTE(bringback91 @ February 19, 2007 - 10:28AM) View Post

Actually I think Dats assisted on 2 or 3 of Z's goals, the big one being when Dats took the puck along the boards and worked through 2 defenders to send the puck to Z in the slot for an easy goal. Two of Z's other goals were rebound tap-in's. Right place at the right time for sure, but no Crosbyesque magic there. Anyway all that's (last years playoffs) been bashed into oblivion a million times. But to suggest that Z needs no one, is even more ridiculous. Besides the fact I'm sure Z doesn't share your opinion.
I believe you are right about Datsyuk assisting Zetterberg on more than one occasion -my bad, but Datsyuk's goalless streak continued nonetheless. The point about Zetterberg > Datsyuk is still valid. That's not saying Zetterberg needs no one. Frankly, I couldn't care less if the goals weren't pretty.

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#44 bringback91

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:42 AM

QUOTE(Never Forget Mac #25 @ February 19, 2007 - 10:32AM) View Post

Every player needs a little help here and there, but the Wings management has said plenty of times that when a player is struggling, all they have to do is put them on a line with Z, and they come right around. While Dats is a hell of a play maker, Z is the only one I've heard them say that about.

Sidenote: Crosbyesque..........its not like Crosby doesn't get his share of normal goals. In fact, he gets plenty of them.

Well, they got 3 other lines that are struggling, no? Time to put that theory to practice if you ask me. I'm not surprised Z's the only one anyone ever hears about. I'd perfer Dats stays "overrated" and under the radar heading into the playoffs. I'm thinking that will be a great benifit to his game.

Yeah, you could've put any superstar you wanted in there "Alex O., Vinnie, ect..." The point was more for when it's suggested that Z is on that level, and his goals last post season were all highlight reel, that you see above players do regularly.

#45 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:47 AM

QUOTE(bringback91 @ February 19, 2007 - 09:35AM) View Post

It couldn't get any worse, I say in reality to move Flip up there and Lang down, but that's not going to happen. Datsyuk has been playing wing succsessfully for over 30 games now, he's proven the ablility too. With Z at such a bargin, the Wings could in all reality "over pay" for Dats for 2 more years, and still sign a number of free agents whilst keeping both on the team. A win-win, no?

That's an interesting theory, but IMO you never want to overpay for anyone, especially if you're doing it on purpose and there's not a foundation for your gamble. sly.gif If Dats shows up in the playoffs and has a big playoff year, that's a different story.

QUOTE(bringback91 @ February 19, 2007 - 09:42AM) View Post

Well, they got 3 other lines that are struggling, no? Time to put that theory to practice if you ask me. I'm not surprised Z's the only one anyone ever hears about. I'd perfer Dats stays "overrated" and under the radar heading into the playoffs. I'm thinking that will be a great benifit to his game.

Yeah, you could've put any superstar you wanted in there "Alex O., Vinnie, ect..." The point was more for when it's suggested that Z is on that level, and his goals last post season were all highlight reel, that you see above players do regularly.

Not when your winning and Z is putting up the numbers that he is. I'd rather have 4 goals per game come from 1 line (right now) than only 2 goals a game come from different lines .

QUOTE(bringback91 @ February 19, 2007 - 09:42AM) View Post

I'd perfer Dats stays "overrated" and under the radar heading into the playoffs. I'm thinking that will be a great benifit to his game.

And I hope you're right with this statment. If Dats shows up in the playoffs, Z continues his hot play, Lang puts up his usual playoff numbers, and we add a solid strong player (or 2) at the deadline, this team is very scary.

Edited by Never Forget Mac #25, 19 February 2007 - 10:48 AM.

It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#46 bringback91

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:58 AM

QUOTE(Never Forget Mac #25 @ February 19, 2007 - 10:47AM) View Post

That's an interesting theory, but IMO you never want to overpay for anyone, especially if you're doing it on purpose and there's not a foundation for your gamble. sly.gif If Dats shows up in the playoffs and has a big playoff year, that's a different story.
Not when your winning and Z is putting up the numbers that he is. I'd rather have 4 goals per game come from 1 line (right now) than only 2 goals a game come from different lines .
And I hope you're right with this statment. If Dats shows up in the playoffs, Z continues his hot play, Lang puts up his usual playoff numbers, and we add a solid strong player (or 2) at the deadline, this team is very scary.

Off topic.....how do you do multiple qoutes like that? blush.gif (still a little slow on the in's and outs of things)

Don't want to take anything away from Z. The guy is great, the hat trick game was was awesome for sure. My main issue is sometimes some people go a little over board. for example, the wrap around goal he scored a few games back, he actually lost the puck for a moment which changed the angle and greatly benifited him on the goal. Yet some posters were ready to nominate it for goal of the year. Just little things like that irritate me.

The whole line has been absolutly on fire, especially Z. While I agree with your statement of not careing if all the goals come from one line, I see that as backfireing big time in the playoffs. Not due to the line tailing off as much as the other team being able to key on one line and Lang.

Yeah, something's gotta give with the other 3 lines for anything to happen. That second line especially, that's not going to cut it IMO. To me the x-factor is Dom, without him I don't think it matters how many players they add.

#47 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:09 AM

QUOTE(bringback91 @ February 19, 2007 - 09:58AM) View Post

Off topic.....how do you do multiple qoutes like that? blush.gif (still a little slow on the in's and outs of things)

If you want to do multiple quotes from different posts, just hit the "+ Quote" button for each post you want to quote, and then hit the "Add Reply" button at the bottom. When you go to post, all these quotes will already show up in your dialogue box.

If you want to break up someone's single quote into sections, just copy and paste it a few times in your dialogue box and erase the parts of the quote that aren't relevant to what you are answering.

Make sense?

QUOTE(bringback91 @ February 19, 2007 - 09:58AM) View Post

Don't want to take anything away from Z. The guy is great, the hat trick game was was awesome for sure. My main issue is sometimes some people go a little over board. for example, the wrap around goal he scored a few games back, he actually lost the puck for a moment which changed the angle and greatly benifited him on the goal. Yet some posters were ready to nominate it for goal of the year. Just little things like that irritate me.

As far as that goal goes, it depends upon how you look at it. I've heard reasoning for both sides, it just depends on how you, as an individual view it. I won't repeat what I've already said in the other thread.

QUOTE(bringback91 @ February 19, 2007 - 09:58AM) View Post

The whole line has been absolutly on fire, especially Z. While I agree with your statement of not careing if all the goals come from one line, I see that as backfireing big time in the playoffs. Not due to the line tailing off as much as the other team being able to key on one line and Lang.

Yeah, something's gotta give with the other 3 lines for anything to happen. That second line especially, that's not going to cut it IMO. To me the x-factor is Dom, without him I don't think it matters how many players they add.

Absolutely it will backfire in the playoffs. That's why I wrote "right now" next to my statement. Come playoff time, teams will absolutely focus on that line. That's why I brought up signing 1 or 2 solid, strong players (both forwards) before the deadline. I believe thats going to be the key to the Wings going deep in the playoffs.

QUOTE(bringback91 @ February 19, 2007 - 09:58AM) View Post

To me the x-factor is Dom, without him I don't think it matters how many players they add.

As long as Dom's healthy come playoff time (knock on wood) I have no concern about him in net. I don't feel Hasek will lose it for the Wings, but he just may win it for them.

Edit: Grammar

Edited by Never Forget Mac #25, 19 February 2007 - 11:10 AM.

It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#48 superstarsingh

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:12 AM

Great post. He wont be dealt for the obvious reasons. Come on people...we're first in the West and we're in a battle to lock that position down. Why would be break up our one line of production? Dats will be re-signed hopefully for about 5 per season. He and Zetts should clearly play together for the rest of their NHL careers....in Detroit.

#49 sibiriak

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:35 AM

QUOTE(RyanBarnes! @ February 19, 2007 - 09:25AM) View Post

That's just stats though. There could be a million reasons behind Zetterberg's slow start and current success. There's absolutely nothing to suggest Zetterberg's current success is linked specifically to Datsyuk. I've seen him dominate like this before. Just look at the playoffs, where the two were separated. Zetterberg scored 6 goals, while Datsyuk continued his no show tradition. To suggest Zetterberg needs Datsyuk is ridiculous.

Nobody's denying that the two play well together, people are reacting to the ridiculous argument made by the threadstarter as to why Datsyuk should be kept in Detroit.

Zetterberg could probably carry the line of Cleary and Williams. It couldn't get much worse than now, but good luck having either Datsyuk or Lang play wing. Which is another reason why Zetterberg is superior to Datsyuk, he is flexible.

Of the 30 Zetterberg's goals this season, only six! were scored without either Datsyuk or Holmstrom being present on the ice. Eight without Datsyuk being on the ice and nine without Homer. Put Zetterberg with any other line, and he is a 20-goal scorer. Put him with these two, and he is 50-goal scorer. Hockey is a team game. Sometimes a scoring play doesn't happen without a good defensive play, sometimes the crucial pass was the third one, that doesn't go in the books. But it is hard to argue that playing with Datsyuk and Holmstrom doesn't make Zetterberg the dominant player that he is right now, when he rarely scores without them.
To answer your other claim, Datsyuk is playing wing now, with Zetterberg playing center. Doesn't that make him flexible also?

#50 Wings_Dynasty

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:37 AM

QUOTE(superstarsingh @ February 19, 2007 - 11:12AM) View Post

Great post. He wont be dealt for the obvious reasons. Come on people...we're first in the West and we're in a battle to lock that position down. Why would be break up our one line of production? Dats will be re-signed hopefully for about 5 per season. He and Zetts should clearly play together for the rest of their NHL careers....in Detroit.


We can all dream. sleeping.gif

But, since people are having a problem comprehending the 5th reason, let me ellaborate.

Who would you want setting up a play in the offensive zone with one minute left, etc...?

Yes Nick has the shot, yes Z has a better shot than Pavel (debatable since Pavel does have a wicked wrist shot) but Pavel's passing skills and vision on the ice are unquestioned.

"I think a tough team, a team that sticks together, is a lot better than leaving the onus on one guy to take care of business." - Brendan Shanahan

 

It still would be nice to have that one guy.


#51 Heaton

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:43 AM

QUOTE
Put Zetterberg with any other line, and he is a 20-goal scorer. Put him with these two, and he is 50-goal scorer.


This is completely false, last season Z played the majority of it with Holmstrom and Samuelsson. Datsyuk and Z played together last year, but Hank can play with anyone and produce.

This is the difference between the two, Datsyuk needs Zetterberg more than Zetterberg needs Datsyuk. Z produces with whoever is on his line, Datsyuk MUST have another great player there for him to be successful. Case in point all of the "Which winger do we get for Datsyuk??" threads.

Edited by Heaton, 19 February 2007 - 11:45 AM.

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#52 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:51 AM

QUOTE(Wings_Dynasty @ February 19, 2007 - 10:37AM) View Post

We can all dream. sleeping.gif

But, since people are having a problem comprehending the 5th reason, let me ellaborate.

Who would you want setting up a play in the offensive zone with one minute left, etc...?

Yes Nick has the shot, yes Z has a better shot than Pavel (debatable since Pavel does have a wicked wrist shot) but Pavel's passing skills and vision on the ice are unquestioned.

That's not why I picked Lids first. I picked him because (as you stated) the Wings net was empty. Lids is the most responsible player on the Wings roster, and I want him setting up the play to Z or Dats, not the other way around.\

It has nothing to do with Lids' shot.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#53 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:55 AM

QUOTE(RyanBarnes! @ February 19, 2007 - 09:25AM) View Post

That's just stats though. There could be a million reasons behind Zetterberg's slow start and current success. There's absolutely nothing to suggest Zetterberg's current success is linked specifically to Datsyuk. I've seen him dominate like this before. Just look at the playoffs, where the two were separated. Zetterberg scored 6 goals, while Datsyuk continued his no show tradition. To suggest Zetterberg needs Datsyuk is ridiculous.


And yet other way around it somehow makes sense and not at all ridiculous? Besides Datsyuk not scoring in playoffs is just stats as well.


#54 Kira

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:55 AM

Pasha will stay. Why, you ask? Because he WANTS to stay. When he signed with Omsk a couple years ago, you could tell he was not happy about it. HIs heart wasn't in it. But the minute he got back to us, you could see a marked change in him...even the look in his eyes was totally different. He was happy, he knew he was where he wanted to be. This time it will be the same...he will stay...I'd bet on it.
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#55 epps

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:58 AM

Resigning Pavel makes the most sense assuming its not much more $5 million per year. No reason to trade him now that he and Z are so hot. However, he is not worth blowing up our cap. If he demands $7 million I say we spend our money elsewhere.

#56 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:00 PM

QUOTE(epps @ February 19, 2007 - 10:58AM) View Post

Resigning Pavel makes the most sense assuming its not much more $5 million per year. No reason to trade him now that he and Z are so hot. However, he is not worth blowing up our cap. If he demands $7 million I say we spend our money elsewhere.

Exactly. I am very willing to give Dats between $4.25 and $5 million (depending on his playoff run). But $7 won't work with Lids pulling in $7.8. And there is no question that Lids deserves every dime of his contract.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#57 sibiriak

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:02 PM

QUOTE(Heaton @ February 19, 2007 - 10:43AM) View Post

This is completely false, last season Z played the majority of it with Holmstrom and Samuelsson. Datsyuk and Z played together last year, but Hank can play with anyone and produce.

This is the difference between the two, Datsyuk needs Zetterberg more than Zetterberg needs Datsyuk. Z produces with whoever is on his line, Datsyuk MUST have another great player there for him to be successful. Case in point all of the "Which winger do we get for Datsyuk??" threads.

After the line was reunited in December (Dec.20), Zetterberg's scoring went from 0.59 pts per game to 1.61 PPG. Datsyuk's scoring went from 0.75 to 1.4 PPG. Holmstrom's from 0.38 to 1.04 PPG. You tell me who benefited the most?
Zetterberg is getting more than 1 PPG more when playing with Datsyuk and Holmstrom, than without them. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that Zetterberg scored 6 of his 12 pre-Dec. 20 goals when on PP with ... Dats and Homer. When I'll have time, I'll do the same analysis of Zetterberg's last year scoring, and I won't be surprised if a similar picture emerges.
EDIT-typos.

Edited by sibiriak, 19 February 2007 - 12:05 PM.


#58 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:10 PM

QUOTE(sibiriak @ February 19, 2007 - 11:02AM) View Post

After the line was reunited in December (Dec.20), Zetterberg's scoring went from 0.59 pts per game to 1.61 PPG. Datsyuk's scoring went from 0.75 to 1.4 PPG. Holmstrom's from 0.38 to 1.04 PPG. You tell me who benefited the most?
Zetterberg is getting more than 1 PPG more when playing with Datsyuk and Holmstrom, than without them. And that doesn't even take into account the fact that Zetterberg scored 6 of his 12 pre-Dec. 20 goals when on PP with ... Dats and Homer. When I'll have time, I'll do the same analysis of Zetterberg's last year scoring, and I won't be surprised if a similar picture emerges.
EDIT-typos.

If you want to get technical Z's scoring has gone up 273% while Holmstrom's has gone up 274%. tongue.gif Just thought I'd point that out.

You know whats really funny though? That we have to argue about two players that are both playing great hockey right now.
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


"They are the best team in the world. They are a team that can just take over when they want to," Chicago's Patrick Kane said (of the Detroit Red Wings).

#59 TheUkrainian

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:10 PM

Answer to question 5...... a) Ozzy b) Hasek c) Markov d) Lilja..... ph34r.gif
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#60 wingnut129

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:19 PM

QUOTE(Wings_Dynasty @ February 19, 2007 - 01:19AM) View Post

5. Of all the players on the Wings roster, who would you want to have the puck with 1:00 left on the clock down 2-1 in game seven of the finals with the goalie pulled?


Not Datsyuk... have you watched any playoff hockey the last 3 years??? He doesn't score in the playoffs... and until he starts, I'm not sure he's worth 5+ million a year you want to give him. I love Dats, but if I had to choose I'd take Hank 100% of the time.


QUOTE(TheUkrainian @ February 19, 2007 - 01:10PM) View Post

Answer to question 5...... a) Ozzy b) Hasek c) Markov d) Lilja..... ph34r.gif


Nice clap.gif Add to that anyone that is on IR at the time. The IR has a better chance of getting on the score sheet in the playoffs than Pavel does.






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