Daytona 500

[betterREDthandead 58]

'K, I realize this thread won't have much of an audience since NHL fans and NASCAR fans are almost entirely mutually exclusive. Still. Anyways, I decided to watch yesterday. I've never followed NASCAR, and I generally only watch a race if I'm flipping channels and one happens to be on. I don't have a favorite driver and I don't get into the whole Ford vs. Chevy thing. No Calvin-pissing-on-an-oval sticker. But after yesterday's race I might just have to watch more races. It was pretty exciting. I decided to watch mainly because it was the first race where I ever had a rooting interest. Since Toyota has decided to invade NASCAR, I was rooting for every Toyota car to hit a wall and burn up. I hate Toyota. Happily, the highest Toyota finish was 22nd. But the actual race was pretty fun too - the two leaders, leading for the whole race almost, crashed each other out of the race with about 45 laps to go, which set up a situation where there was a wreck once every ten laps or so. Best of all was the photo finish between two cars, with pretty much the entire field smashing into each other directly behind. One car literally finished the race upside down and on fire. Apparently there's no rule that says you have to cross the finish line on your wheels

Anyway, now that I have a rooting interest in NASCAR, which is to hope that Toyota never earns a top-20 finish and wrecks as many of its cars as possible, and now that I've actually seen a very exciting NASCAR race, maybe I'll have to actually become a fan now.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

I was going to post a Daytona 500 thread yesterday, but I didn't think there was enough intrest here. As for me I love Nascar! It was the first sport I started watching when I was little. I've been to 4 Nextel Cup races (MIS 3 times, and the Brickyard 400 once). If you ever get the chance to go to a Nextel Cup race I guarentee you will be hooked. Its 100X better being there then on TV. You will have a blast for sure!

As for Toyota: I agree. I hope they all suck even though I think Dale Jarrett is a great guy

Edited February 19, 2007 by mannysBETTER3434

[CopenhagenWing 38]

Just out of curiosity, why the hate for Toyota?

Edited February 19, 2007 by CopenhagenWing

[betterREDthandead 58]

Just out of curiosity, why the hate for Toyota?

Biggest threat to the Big Three, of course. It's a very Detroit thing. One thing that warmed my heart greatly happened just recently at the Joe, when a Toyota Tundra was brought out onto the ice for a promotion of some kind and roundly booed.

I of course feel the same way about Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Volkswagen, etc., but with rather less strength than Toyota, since Toyota is the biggest and the baddest. Toyota's also the only one trying to pass themselves off as American.

Tying in to NASCAR, there are two races at the MIS this year.....I wonder how the Toyotas will be received.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Funny thing is Toyota Camerys are the only Nascar made in America. Dogde Chargers are made in Mexico, and the Fushison/Monte Carlo are made in Canada. Still don't like them though

[betterREDthandead 58]

Funny thing is Toyota Camerys are the only Nascar made in America. Dogde Chargers are made in Mexico, and the Fushison/Monte Carlo are made in Canada. Still don't like them though

Assembled in America, not made in America. Camrys are still made with Japanese parts and Japanese material, designed by Japanese designers and engineered by Japanese engineers. And most importantly, paid for with Japanese money. And there are two Camry plants outside the US as well. Camry doesn't actually sell well in Japan, so the Japanese plant is kicking out cars primarily for export. I don't think every Camry driven in the US is assembled in the US.

[Guest LSSULaker889294]

I used to own a Toyota Camry. It was a great car and it was very reliable.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

I used to own a Toyota Camry. It was a great car and it was very reliable.

Shocking! I own a 2001 Chevy Blazer, and it's a piece of s***. I love American cars, but I don't know how much longer people can be loyal to them

[Hiei 192]

I used to own a Toyota Camry. It was a great car and it was very reliable.

Funny, I used to own a Chevy Caprice, which got hit by a Toyota Camry, and came away virtually unscathed. (there was a little scratch on the rear bumper) Too bad the same couldn't be said of that Camry.

Also funny, Mark Martin's been driving Fords for Jack Roush for over 20 years, and the best he's finished at Daytona was 3rd. Put him in a Chevy this time around and he NEARLY won it!!!

[Sting 11 0]

Funny thing is Toyota Camerys are the only Nascar made in America. Dogde Chargers are made in Mexico, and the Fushison/Monte Carlo are made in Canada. Still don't like them though

The Charger is made in Brampton, Ontario...the Fusion is made in Mexico.

It really doesn't matter where the cars are made anyway, since NASCAR race cars no longer bear any resemblance to their highway couterparts.

Like betterRED, I also hate Toyota. I hate Toyota with an incredible passion. I will never own a Toyota. The reason is Toyota's corporate strategy. Toyota plans to take over the world with cars that are absolutely bland, nondescript, nonoffensive, and completely uninspiring. Car guys tend to hate Toyota because Toyotas are meant to be an appliance like a refridgerator or a TV. Cars evoke passion and emotion, and Toyota bucks that reality by producing emotionless point-A-to-point-B appliances. Screw them.

Not to mention how Toyota appears to get a free pass on quality issues. Camrys had an enormous engine sludge issue and Toyota trucks had a serious ball joint issue. Toyota recalled more vehicles than they sold in 2006. You really have to dig deep to find media coverage on this, though. Their quality is slipping. The Saturn Aura and upcoming 08 Chevy Malibu are flat out better cars than the Camry...hopefully consumers begin to realize this. F**k Toyota.

[Sting 11 0]

I was going to post a Daytona 500 thread yesterday, but I didn't think there was enough intrest here. As for me I love Nascar! It was the first sport I started watching when I was little. I've been to 4 Nextel Cup races (MIS 3 times, and the Brickyard 400 once). If you ever get the chance to go to a Nextel Cup race I guarentee you will be hooked. Its 100X better being there then on TV. You will have a blast for sure!

As for Toyota: I agree. I hope they all suck even though I think Dale Jarrett is a great guy

I've also been a NASCAR fan since I was very little. It's the only sport my family really followed when I was young; I had to learn to like other sports on my own. I don't follow it quite as close as I once did, but I'm still a pretty big fan. I've been to events at MIS 10+ times, and since I live really close to there now, I'm itching to go back. Having grown up with NASCAR in the 1980s (with stories of the glories of the 60s and 70s never far away), I'm a purist. I despise most of the new rules NASCAR has come out with like closing pit road on a caution, pit road speed limit, lucky dog, no racing back to the line, cookie-cutter cars...I hate them all.

That having been said I think NASCAR was wrong with not throwing the caution on the last lap wreck and subsequently allowing a race to the checkered flag, because if they're going to make a rule, no matter how stupid it is, they need to be consistent and enforce their rule. I had no dog in the fight at the finish because my boy, and fellow Purdue alum, Ryan Newman blew the engine with 25 to go. I was just hoping for a good finish, and it was, but I'm disappointed that NASCAR adjusted their rules on the fly to ensure that close finish.

[Jwo 7]

I never understood why Americans like this garbage. Formula and Rally Racing seems to be the biggest motorsport racing in the world and Americans snub off those motorsports. Sure you can say Americans dont hate this sport but the only time Formula gets coverage is at Indy 500, then it dissapears from the sportscenter.

P.S. Our police force in America should switch over to Mercedes and BMW cars like European police use. Dump the Ford's and Chevys police cars.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Jwo

[betterREDthandead 58]

I've also been a NASCAR fan since I was very little. It's the only sport my family really followed when I was young; I had to learn to like other sports on my own. I don't follow it quite as close as I once did, but I'm still a pretty big fan. I've been to events at MIS 10+ times, and since I live really close to there now, I'm itching to go back. Having grown up with NASCAR in the 1980s (with stories of the glories of the 60s and 70s never far away), I'm a purist. I despise most of the new rules NASCAR has come out with like closing pit road on a caution (???), pit road speed limit, lucky dog???, no racing back to the line???, cookie-cutter cars...I hate them all.

That having been said I think NASCAR was wrong with not throwing the caution on the last lap wreck and subsequently allowing a race to the checkered flag, because if they're going to make a rule, no matter how stupid it is, they need to be consistent and enforce their rule. I had no dog in the fight at the finish because my boy, and fellow Purdue alum, Ryan Newman blew the engine with 25 to go. I was just hoping for a good finish, and it was, but I'm disappointed that NASCAR adjusted their rules on the fly to ensure that close finish.

You'll have to explain some of those to me cause I haven't the faintest idea what all those mean. Especially about pit road on a caution.....I see EVERYONE going to town on pit road during cautions.

Oh....and I love the fact that they didn't throw the caution for that last wreck. That last lap is going to make me a NASCAR fan yet. Absolutely thrilling finish. In that moment, you had almost everything that's great about racing all wrapped up in one: thrilling photo finish, massive pileup behind, and nobody got hurt. Cars all skidding across the line upside down. Great stuff. That's certainly a race I'll never forget. NASCAR was in a huge no-win with that one, because had they knee-jerked a yellow flag, they'd have had people howling to let 'em race, that the wreck had no bearing on the finish between Martin and Harvick, that they're ruining NASCAR with all these namby-pamby cautions, etc. People might cry safety and say they were risking the drivers by not throwing the caution, but I don't buy it - I believe they threw yellow as soon as the race was decided for Harvick. Any earlier, and it wouldn't have had an effect on safety, as cars were still skidding and crashing and it would have been too soon for other drivers to react and slow down.

I never understood why Americans like this garbage. Formula and Rally Racing seems to be the biggest motorsport racing in the world and Americans snub off those motorsports. Sure you can say Americans dont hate this sport but the only time Formula gets coverage is at Indy 500. then it dissapears from the sportscenter.

And the rest of us can't understand why policemen get killed over soccer riots. So you'll forgive me if I don't give a s*** what the world thinks of American sporting tastes. Formula One gets great popularity in Europe because most of the races are in Europe.

P.S. Our police force in America should switch over to Mercedes and BMW cars like European police use. Dump the Ford's and Chevys police cars.

P.S.: F**k no. If you love European stuff so much, move there.

[BlakChamber 8]

I never understood why Americans like this garbage. Formula and Rally Racing seems to be the biggest motorsport racing in the world and Americans snub off those motorsports. Sure you can say Americans dont hate this sport but the only time Formula gets coverage is at Indy 500, then it dissapears from the sportscenter.

P.S. Our police force in America should switch over to Mercedes and BMW cars like European police use. Dump the Ford's and Chevys police cars.

I've never understood why the rest of the world likes soccer. And I know, I'm disgracing my German heritage by saying I don't like it

Why would American police forces switch to cars that are more expensive, have more expensive parts, cost more to get fixed, and don't help the American auto makers?

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

That having been said I think NASCAR was wrong with not throwing the caution on the last lap wreck and subsequently allowing a race to the checkered flag, because if they're going to make a rule, no matter how stupid it is, they need to be consistent and enforce their rule. I had no dog in the fight at the finish because my boy, and fellow Purdue alum, Ryan Newman blew the engine with 25 to go. I was just hoping for a good finish, and it was, but I'm disappointed that NASCAR adjusted their rules on the fly to ensure that close finish.

I see where you are coming from, but I think NASCAR made the right choice by letting them race. I have to agree with BRed on that one. The finish was very exciting. The only reason I wanted them to call caution right away was so Mark Martin would win, and not Harvick (who's a jerk).

I never understood why Americans like this garbage. Formula and Rally Racing seems to be the biggest motorsport racing in the world and Americans snub off those motorsports. Sure you can say Americans dont hate this sport but the only time Formula gets coverage is at Indy 500, then it dissapears from the sportscenter.

P.S. Our police force in America should switch over to Mercedes and BMW cars like European police use. Dump the Ford's and Chevys police cars.

Formula One sucks. When I was ten years old I went to MIS with my dad to watch some type of Indy car racing and it sucked! You can't even see the cars go past you. There is a reason why Indy races are empty (besides the Indy 500), and NASCAR packs 200,000+ every single race.

As for cop cars...SCREW THAT!! I'm a criminal justice student, and the cars we got now are fine! The Chevy/Ford police cars haul ass. Plus most police stations now have jacked up cars such as Dodge Chargers, Chevy Camaroes, and Ford Mustangs for the high speed stuff.

[Sting 11 0]

You'll have to explain some of those to me cause I haven't the faintest idea what all those mean. Especially about pit road on a caution.....I see EVERYONE going to town on pit road during cautions.

I'll give it a shot. In 1989 or 1990, there was an accident on pit road that killed a tire changer. NASCAR instituted two rules that were supposed to stop pit road accidents: pit road speed limit and closing pit road. When a caution flag comes out, pit road is closed until all the cars form up behind the pace car and form a pacing line. I've never understood the safety aspect of this; I think they do it to make scoring easier. The problem closing pit road causes is that since cars can't pit until they're all formed up in a slow-speed line, that entire line of 30-40 cars pits at once. Before they started closing pit road, cars would dive into the pits 5-or-so at a time immediately when the caution flew, a good half a lap before cars formed up behind the pace car. That left pit road far less congested. Why they haven't figured this out is, to me, one of life's great mysteries.

There were almost no pit road accidents before implementing the new pit "safety" rules. Since then they're commonplace. Go figure.

Racing back to the line and the "lucky dog" are interconnected. Before a couple of years ago, when a caution flag came out, the leaders would keep racing until they crossed the start-finish line and took the caution. If a car is laps down, if they could get in front of the leader by the time they crossed the stripe, he'd get a lap back.

A few years ago, NASCAR thought it would be a good idea to stop racing back to the line for safety's sake. The field is now frozen immediately when the caution lights come on. Since racing back to the line was the primary way lapped cars got their laps back, NASCAR implemented a fairness rule that automatically gave the first car one lap down their lap back when a caution came out, regardless of where they were on the track reference the race leader. They call the guy who gets his lap back the lucky dog. Stupid rules, all.

I never understood why Americans like this garbage. Formula and Rally Racing seems to be the biggest motorsport racing in the world and Americans snub off those motorsports. Sure you can say Americans dont hate this sport but the only time Formula gets coverage is at Indy 500, then it dissapears from the sportscenter.

P.S. Our police force in America should switch over to Mercedes and BMW cars like European police use. Dump the Ford's and Chevys police cars.

The answer here is obviously because Americans are, in general, stupid hick rednecks who are stuck in the past and are nowhere near as enlightened and progressive as the marvelous Europeans.

[Jwo 7]

I've never understood why the rest of the world likes soccer. And I know, I'm disgracing my German heritage by saying I don't like it

Why would American police forces switch to cars that are more expensive, have more expensive parts, cost more to get fixed, and don't help the American auto makers?

Why would you want to help the American auto makers? Those guys dont care about the consumers. I can barley fit a bottle water in a cup holder in a American car when I can fit that same bottle in a foreign car.

And the rest of us can't understand why policemen get killed over soccer riots.

Thats a good question. Perhaps we should ask why Firemen get killed in America while travling on the road in their trucks.

P.S.: F**k no. If you love European stuff so much, move there.

I will in about about 2 more years when im done with my schooling.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Jwo

[BlakChamber 8]

Why would you want to help the American auto makers? Those guys dont care about the consumers. I can barley fit a bottle water in a cup holder in a American car when I can fit that same bottle in a foreign car.

That's your rational for having American police forces use German cars? The Amercan car companies have too small of cup holders, so we should punish them by making the cops use German autos.

Again, why would it make sense to have police forces, who are usually strapped for cash as it is, especially now that a lot of federal funding they used to get is drying up, use cars that are more expensive, have more expensive parts, and cost more to get fixed.

In addition, what benefit would the police forces obtain by using a BMW 5 series over a Crown Vic?

[betterREDthandead 58]

I'll give it a shot. In 1989 or 1990, there was an accident on pit road that killed a tire changer. NASCAR instituted two rules that were supposed to stop pit road accidents: pit road speed limit and closing pit road. When a caution flag comes out, pit road is closed until all the cars form up behind the pace car and form a pacing line. I've never understood the safety aspect of this; I think they do it to make scoring easier. The problem closing pit road causes is that since cars can't pit until they're all formed up in a slow-speed line, that entire line of 30-40 cars pits at once. Before they started closing pit road, cars would dive into the pits 5-or-so at a time immediately when the caution flew, a good half a lap before cars formed up behind the pace car. That left pit road far less congested. Why they haven't figured this out is, to me, one of life's great mysteries.

There were almost no pit road accidents before implementing the new pit "safety" rules. Since then they're commonplace. Go figure.

Racing back to the line and the "lucky dog" are interconnected. Before a couple of years ago, when a caution flag came out, the leaders would keep racing until they crossed the start-finish line and took the caution. If a car is laps down, if they could get in front of the leader by the time they crossed the stripe, he'd get a lap back.

A few years ago, NASCAR thought it would be a good idea to stop racing back to the line for safety's sake. The field is now frozen immediately when the caution lights come on. Since racing back to the line was the primary way lapped cars got their laps back, NASCAR implemented a fairness rule that automatically gave the first car one lap down their lap back when a caution came out, regardless of where they were on the track reference the race leader. They call the guy who gets his lap back the lucky dog. Stupid rules, all.

Now that you explain it, I agree with most of it.....the lucky dog rule sounds stupid and overly complex. Racing back to the line would only make sense, since the pace car comes out from pit row just ahead of the line anyway. I guess people behind the wreck shouldn't be racing past it though.

I was thinking during the race that they ought to have a speed lane in pit row where there is no speed limit, well away from the pits themselves. I wouldn't want to see them get rid of the speed limit entirely though. I always figured part of the reason they had a speed limit was so drivers don't shortcut.

Now, I did think it was hilarious, during the race, when one driver (forget who) was forced to go down pit row to avoid a wreck, and blew a tire without knowing it. The image of a guy screaming down pit row and coming straight back out into the middle of the pack and taking another vehicle to the wall is a lasting impression of the chaos of those last 45 laps. Did he get penalized for that?

Oh, and one other question: I know they've got some races where restrictor plates are required, and some not. What's the difference?

[Jwo 7]

That's your rational for having American police forces use German cars? The Amercan car companies have too small of cup holders, so we should punish them by making the cops use German autos.

Again, why would it make sense to have police forces, who are usually strapped for cash as it is, especially now that a lot of federal funding they used to get is drying up, use cars that are more expensive, have more expensive parts, and cost more to get fixed.

In addition, what benefit would the police forces obtain by using a BMW 5 series over a Crown Vic?

I'm sure you make a deal with the Germans like they make a deal with the American car companys on parts and cars. If these so called third world countries can have them as their police cars then why cant a big and rich country like America have them as well?

[betterREDthandead 58]

I'm sure you make a deal with the Germans like they make a deal with the American car companys on parts and cars. If these so called third world countries can have them as their police cars then why cant a big and rich country like America have them as well?

Because there's an ocean in the way.

[BlakChamber 8]

I'm sure you make a deal with the Germans like they make a deal with the American car companys on parts and cars. If these so called third world countries can have them as their police cars then why cant a big and rich country like America have them as well?

Honestly, go back to your soccer thread. You haven't posted one thing here that makes any sense. All you're doing is trolling here.

[Jwo 7]

Sorry I never heard of a sport called soccer

[Sting 11 0]

Now, I did think it was hilarious, during the race, when one driver (forget who) was forced to go down pit row to avoid a wreck, and blew a tire without knowing it. The image of a guy screaming down pit row and coming straight back out into the middle of the pack and taking another vehicle to the wall is a lasting impression of the chaos of those last 45 laps. Did he get penalized for that?

Oh, and one other question: I know they've got some races where restrictor plates are required, and some not. What's the difference?

He got parked for that.

The restrictor plates are only required at Daytona and Talladega. These tracks are by far the biggest tracks on the circuit, and without the plates the cars would be turning laps 220-230 mph. The plates limit airflow into the carburetor and sap RPMs and horsepower. They were implemented after a 1987 crash at Talladega where a car almost went into the grandstands (video here explains it).

The problem the plates cause is they limit the cars' ability to accelerate and also cause the cars to run at speeds low enough to allow drivers to never have to lift off of the throttle at Daytona and Talladega (especially Talladega). These two factors make it so the cars have difficulty separating out of large 20-30 car packs. These packs lead to the wrecks drivers call "the big one".

I remember all the talk back in 1988 and 89 of how the plates were supposed to be "temporary". 20 years later we still wait for NASCAR to come up with a real solution.

[Sting 11 0]

I will in about about 2 more years when im done with my schooling.

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.