Mudvayneowns91 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) No Av player jumped on Bertuzzi until Bert had already hit the ice. And regardless of whether Bertuzzi intended to drive Moore into the ice...Bertuzzi falling on Moore is a direct result of Bertuzzi's suckerpunch knocking Moore out. Therefore Bertuzzi is responsible for it. No suckerpunch, no fall, and no broken neck. Regardless of when the broken neck happens, if Bertuzzi doesn't cross the line and brutally assault Moore by punching him in the back of the head HARD ENOUGH TO KNOCK HIM OUT INSTANTLY, then Moore is still playing today and Bertuzzi is still a Canuck. That's what it all comes down to. Oh, and the fact that Bertuzzi threatened to end Moore's career and then followed up on that threat. It is significantly different from Samuelsson on Neely, where Samuelsson laid that same hit every almost night without ruining careers. If yo ucan show me an instance where someone else was uninjured after Bertuzzi punched them in the back of the head hard enough to knock them out, then I'll buy the argument that he's not 100% responsible for the result. It's not worth arguing, I tried for an hour trying to prove that point. Most of the people are just too thickheaded and ignorant. I'm pretty sure the only reason they argue he's not responsible is the fact they want to convince themselves he's an alright guy because he may be wearing a Wings jersey soon. Edited February 20, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salviaman 104 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 So what if Bertuzzi is responsible for breaking Moore's neck? It was in the PAST!!!!! HE also has apologized many times for it and has even served his suspension/punishment by the NHL(Bettman). He has done his time already for what he did, its time to let the past remain in the past. If that reason alone makes some people hate him then they can just continue to add salt to the wound or just get over it. Bertuzzi is a good soild player and he is EXACTLY what we need on this team. Im looking forward to seeing Big Bert in the red and white soon. I hope we get him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanBarnes! 293 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 I can understand Anaheim not parting with Perry, but Hudler? Do it already! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShanahanMan 473 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 It's not worth arguing, I tried for an hour trying to prove that point. Most of the people are just too thickheaded and ignorant. I'm pretty sure the only reason they argue he's not responsible is the fact they want to convince themselves he's an alright guy because he may be wearing a Wings jersey soon. after a quote like that, you have proven yourself to be the ignorant one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akustyk 84 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) you know... I find it pretty embrassing to read justification over justification about what Thuguzzi did to Moore just because people are falling in love with an idea of having him on their team. yet they always bashed him when he was "far from town". such double standards really makes me wanna puke :puke: IMHO, there was a lot of team "atmosphere" involved there in Canucks, as usual with this butthole Crawford (who is to large extent responsible for the situation), but getting over the line for no special reason is always wrong in my book. I can see logic behind such crap if you play playoff hockey and need a series edge when playing tough opponent (see: Hatcher run on Sykora in 2000 SCF). but in regular season against a team you're not having any rivalry or vital competition... oh puhlease... having said that - when healthy he could be a major improvement for Wings. and have a muuuuuch bigger value to this team than Hudler. we already have skilled, small Euros capable of delivering goals. the point is: we can not stop at this point and a team needs something more than just finesse play. and Bertuzzi brings exactly what we are short of. let's see how he does and pull the trigger for a trade if there's a chance of having Bertuzzi healthy in playoffs. it's up to him then to show there's fire left. but before you bash this line, let me answer a question: would you prefer to retire with people having memories of your playoff acomplishments or rather a sucker-punch you once delivered? thank you Edited February 20, 2007 by akustyk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShanahanMan 473 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 funny thing is, i dont WANT him on the Wings......not because of the Moore incident but because I don't think he can stay healthy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skacore 2 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) No Av player jumped on Bertuzzi until Bert had already hit the ice. And regardless of whether Bertuzzi intended to drive Moore into the ice...Bertuzzi falling on Moore is a direct result of Bertuzzi's suckerpunch knocking Moore out. Therefore Bertuzzi is responsible for it. No suckerpunch, no fall, and no broken neck. Regardless of when the broken neck happens, if Bertuzzi doesn't cross the line and brutally assault Moore by punching him in the back of the head HARD ENOUGH TO KNOCK HIM OUT INSTANTLY, then Moore is still playing today and Bertuzzi is still a Canuck. That's what it all comes down to. Oh, and the fact that Bertuzzi threatened to end Moore's career and then followed up on that threat. It is significantly different from Samuelsson on Neely, where Samuelsson laid that same hit every almost night without ruining careers. If yo ucan show me an instance where someone else was uninjured after Bertuzzi punched them in the back of the head hard enough to knock them out, then I'll buy the argument that he's not 100% responsible for the result. everytime someone mentions this incident, they should also mention the other 1000 times this has happened... like McCarty 10 years ago and just this year, Scott Nichol to name a few.. if Nichol broke Spacek's neck, is he the new guy that everyone talks s*** about? hockey is physical, s*** is going to happen, get over it Edited February 20, 2007 by SkaRockSteady Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NEEDMOREGRIT 12 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 Bring on Big Bert!!!What the hell is Kenny waiting on?Hudler for Bert?Thats a sweet deal for the Wings.I wish Kenny would get over his love affair with munchkin sized soft europeans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EstonianWingsFan#1 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 No Way! First of all, Bertuzzi is way too risky. Secondly, we do not need him to snap again, like Moore's case, but I'm much more worried he isn't the agressive scorer he used to be, it's the mental effect. This will always haunt him forever and as he's getting older, he will probably be like Shanny, good player but not the power forward we're looking for. Hudler is starting to shine now, and guys, he has only some 6-7 minutes per game. Still he has 9 goals already, so I think we should give him at least 12+ minutes per game before we evaluate him as a trade bait. If I knew for sure that Bertuzzi is healthy and gives us the necessary grit, I'd go for it. In my opinion we definitely should't trade Hudler yet, after all, the Wings are doing pretty great. So many years of talk that Hudler doesn't have it what it takes to be a NHL player, now let's give him an opportunity. I'd rather give away few draft picks or forget Bert afterall. I think other teams also see that Hudler is a valuable kid for any team, give him more minutes and few bulky offence-capable wingers to do the dirty work, he'd be great. Bertuzzi was a main part of a deal when the Panthers sent Luongo to Vancouver, now trade him for Hudler?? Either Hudler is showing some serious upside or the Panthers see Bertuzzi fading already ... I say no deal. Let's stick with him. Hudler's a spark after few seasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MoscowDynamo 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 The rumored return for Bertuzzi has now been reduced to a conditional pick. Sorry, no link. I would do that one , though. If he's healthy and plays for the Wings, Florida enjoys all the spoils of a 1st. If he's a bust and doesn't play an allotted amount of games, the Wings lose oout on a 3rd (or whatever). As for people being hypocrites for wanting Todd on the Wings after the horrible incident...of course we're hypocrites! We love having Chelios in red and white, right? We spent the past 2 weeks typing up scenarios that would net us one Peter Forsberg, right? We miss the hell out of Darrin McCarty (the '95-'99 version), right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 everytime someone mentions this incident, they should also mention the other 1000 times this has happened... like McCarty 10 years ago and just this year, Scott Nichol to name a few.. if Nichol broke Spacek's neck, is he the new guy that everyone talks s*** about? hockey is physical, s*** is going to happen, get over it What Bertuzzi did has no place in hockey. It had nothing to do with the moment, the shift, or the game. It was a premeditated assault on another player in retaliation for a clean hit, after that other player had already squared off with one of Bertuzzi's teammates for his 'policing' Attitudes like yours are why hockey has the reputation as a game for goons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 The rumored return for Bertuzzi has now been reduced to a conditional pick. I would consider it for this deal, so long as the pick wasn't a first unless he resigned. We don't lose a roster player or top prospect and potentially get a skilled power forward. I would want to see Williams and/or Maltby dealt off if Bertuzzi were picked up in this manner, however. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 It's not worth arguing, I tried for an hour trying to prove that point. Most of the people are just too thickheaded and ignorant. I'm pretty sure the only reason they argue he's not responsible is the fact they want to convince themselves he's an alright guy because he may be wearing a Wings jersey soon. It's really brilliant how "thickheaded and ignorant" means "disagrees with me" in Mudvaynespeak. I said we could argue this til the break of dawn, and apparently, I was right, despite taking a seven hour break for actually getting some sleep. I guess if you're clearly in the minority on something, the whole rest of the world is thickheaded. Bet that kind of tactic won you all sorts of medals on debate team Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 While I don't want to see Hudler go, the reason I'm ok with this is because we already have a few Hudler-types on this team. The Wings aren't shy of players like him, but Bertuzzi is definitely the type of player the Wings are missing. Pull the trigger Kenny. Jiri, I'll be watching your career unfold though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zion 93 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 Just how bad was his back that it required surgery? I would think his price would be higher than what I'm reading... but if it's for Jiri Hudler and/or a conditional pick, do it... we need the grit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt 1,048 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 The rumored return for Bertuzzi has now been reduced to a conditional pick. Sorry, no link. I would do that one , though. If he's healthy and plays for the Wings, Florida enjoys all the spoils of a 1st. If he's a bust and doesn't play an allotted amount of games, the Wings lose oout on a 3rd (or whatever). I seriously doubt the Red Wings would offer a conditional pick that could potentially be upgraded to a 1st. If there are trades to be made I would assume Bertuzzi would be a secondary one where the primary trade (Guerin, etc.) would gobble up that 1st-rounder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruiser008 37 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) Let's see. Bertuzzi is... - a Winger; we NEED a top-6 Winger. Check - fast; our team lacks speed. Check - big and strong; many of our forwards are small and weak. Check - physical; our forwards are almost all finesse and we need a physical presence like a fish need water. CHECK - hungry; many of our forwards have already won a cup and have been beaten in the desire department in recent playoffs. Check Ok so he's had some personal demons, but if Heatley bounced back why can't Bertuzzi? Plus he is FILTHY cheap right now, so this is clearly a low risk, high reward trade. Is Kenny doesn't make this trade he is the BIGGEST idiot ever, not that he isn't already for his apparent lack of any back up plan in the Datsyuk situation (basically Pavel gets $6 mil a season or he walks). Edited February 20, 2007 by Cruiser008 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyoski 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 Is Kenny doesn't make this trade he is the BIGGEST idiot ever, not that he isn't already for his apparent lack of any back up plan in the Datsyuk situation (basically Pavel gets $6 mil a season or he walks). So you're perfectly comfortable giving up Hudler and a 1st rounder for a guy that hasn't skated in months? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aussie_Wing 354 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 Link It's looking more unlikely that Todd Bertuzzi will be moved because he has yet to play after back surgery, and that's a tremendous risk for any team to take -- unless Florida decides to sell him for a low price. Let's hope a low price it is! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 Let's see. Bertuzzi is... - a Winger; we NEED a top-6 Winger. Check - fast; our team lacks speed. Check - big and strong; many of our forwards are small and weak. Check - physical; our forwards are almost all finesse and we need a physical presence like a fish need water. CHECK - hungry; many of our forwards have already won a cup and have been beaten in the desire department in recent playoffs. Check Ok so he's had some personal demons, but if Heatley bounced back why can't Bertuzzi? Plus he is FILTHY cheap right now, so this is clearly a low risk, high reward trade. Is Kenny doesn't make this trade he is the BIGGEST idiot ever, not that he isn't already for his apparent lack of any back up plan in the Datsyuk situation (basically Pavel gets $6 mil a season or he walks). Bertuzzi is not fast. He has good speed for a big guy, but we have several forwards who are faster than him. And as for hungry, Zetterberg, Lang, Cleary, Samuelsson, Hudler, Filppula, Kopecky, Franzen all do not have a Cup win. Williams was around in 2002 but didn't really play, so he's probably hungry too. Nine of 13 forwards don't have a Cup win. As far as Heatley, there is a huge difference. Heatley was driving recklessly and killed a teammate. That teammate's family forgave him and realized it was an accident. Bertuzzi was playing hockey and committed a brutal assault for which there is, even now, litigation processing. A change of scenery doesn't get Bertuzzi away from NHL ice, where the assault occured. It also doesn't get him away from lawsuits. Heatley could get away from Atlanta, and could clear his mind of something non-hockey related that happened there. Bertuzzi's playing style since the Moore incident, regardless of who he was playing for and where he was, is pretty indicative that a change of scenery WON'T fix it for him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zata40 3 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 Hudler to good to trade for Bertuzzi, huds is still young and has lots of potental. I dont know how old bertuzzi is, but he wont last as long as hudler would on the wings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwedeLundin77 460 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 The draft this year isn't going to be that great anyway, giving up a 1st is not going to have that big of an effect on us since we tend to find the gem's in later rounds ayway. Hudler may last longer than Bertuzzi, yes. But Hudler may also not pan out into what you think he will. And when that happens he'll have ZERO trade value. We already have Datsyuk on this team and he is great - assuming he can turn it up in the playoffs finally. We DON'T need Hudler when we already have Filppula, Grigorenko coming over next season, and more... We need size, this is our chance - one of our chances that is (Tkachuk and Guerin) being the others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 The draft this year isn't going to be that great anyway, giving up a 1st is not going to have that big of an effect on us since we tend to find the gem's in later rounds ayway. Hudler may last longer than Bertuzzi, yes. But Hudler may also not pan out into what you think he will. And when that happens he'll have ZERO trade value. Alternatively, Bertuzzi might not play another game this season, and then sign elsewhere in the offseason. Are you willing to give up Hudler and picks for free? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GuloGulo 0 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 Even if Hudler is disposable, he should render us more than a broken, injured, confidence-shot former power forward with a history of playoff letdowns... really. Bert for picks or incl. any of our scrub players (Williams, LIlja, etc). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aussie_Wing 354 Report post Posted February 20, 2007 Alternatively, Bertuzzi might not play another game this season, and then sign elsewhere in the offseason. Are you willing to give up Hudler and picks for free? Do you think the Wings would give away Hudler if there was no chance of Bertuzzi playing again this season? I highly doubt it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
