Pens > Wings

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

The title of the thread is Pens>Wings...according to the media.

The absurd thing is the reason the Preds are higher than us in the TSN poll.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Where was he yestertday when they let 6 in? I'm not really sure if it is more the goalies aren't doing their job, but you shouldn't be letting in that many against the Islanders.... He may be good, but look at their PK, look at their GAA.

Not that I necessarily support the Eaton = Win thing here, but if you check out the highlights at NHL.com (or other outlet of choice...) you'll see Fleury had a pretty awful game.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Not that I necessarily support the Eaton = Win thing here, but if you check out the highlights at NHL.com (or other outlet of choice...) you'll see Fleury had a pretty awful game.

What's really impressive about the Pens is that they've skyrocketed to 3rd overall in the East (seeded 4th) and tied with San Jose for I believe 8th overall in the NHL. They have 73 points and 31 games remaining. If they play .500 hockey for the rest of the year they'll end up with over 100 pts and coast into the playoffs. Think about that, the Pens "coasting" into the playoffs. Who'd have ever thunk it?

And Sid's now 15 points ahead of anybody else in the scoring race. Slam dunk Art Ross. Kid scores a point like every freaking game and when he doesn't he roars back with like 3 or 4 points the next game. Unbelievable. AO who?

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Not that I necessarily support the Eaton = Win thing here, but if you check out the highlights at NHL.com (or other outlet of choice...) you'll see Fleury had a pretty awful game.

The game was on in the day so I was able to catch the whole thing. Such a exciting ending to the game, but poor goaltending on both parts. The guy has played 24 games has no goals/ 2 assits and 15 shots. But the most important part, he has a +/- of 3. So he's letting about as many goals as they score. http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&am...layerId=8467580

[Anomalously 0]

Guys, I wasn't saying that Eaton is their savior, I was saying that Eaton is an important piece of the puzzle, and he's only played 24 games (of which 18 have been wins). He's averaging 2-1/2 shot blocks per game, a pace that would launch him to 7th in the league had he not been injured blocking a shot earlier in the year. And he's most important on the PK [second on the team in SH TOI/G], which has nothing to do with his plus-minus, nothing to do with his goals, assists or points.

You'd know these things if you watched more than one game.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Anomalously

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

Guys, I wasn't saying that Eaton is their savior, I was saying that Eaton is an important piece of the puzzle, and he's only played 24 games (of which 18 have been wins). He's averaging 2-1/2 shot blocks per game, a pace that would launch him to 7th in the league had he not been injured blocking a shot earlier in the year. And he's most important on the PK [second on the team in SH TOI/G], which has nothing to do with his plus-minus, nothing to do with his goals, assists or points.

You'd know these things if you watched more than one game.

The plus minus is a pretty important stat as a defensemen. a defensive player should be judged more on keeping pucks out of the net, not by how many shots you block(taking nothing away from him). That's good he's on the PK, but that is only a small majority of the game. not to be compared to 5-5 hockey. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's a quality player and he's contributing a lot. But credit more than just Eaton for their streak.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[Cicada 4]

power ranking always seem to be wrong...

when were bad we seem to be high, when were good we seem to be lower..

i'd put us at #3 atm...which i think is what cbs sportline has us at..

i guess they'res some weird algorithm that they use...but it's obviously not great

[Anomalously 0]

The plus minus is a pretty important stat as a defensemen. a defensive player should be judged more on keeping pucks out of the net, not by how many shots you block(taking nothing away from him). That's good he's on the PK, but that is only a small majority of the game. not to be compared to 5-5 hockey. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's a quality player and he's contributing a lot. But credit more than just Eaton for their streak.

If "keeping pucks out of the net" is important, how is blocking shots not important? If it hits Eaton's shin pads, gloves, or chest protector, it's not going into the net.

Also, if the PK is in fact a "small majority" of the game, then it would be important, no? You're taking it further than I would! In reality, I see it as a large minority*, but I'm not going to sit here and debate the merits of +/- vs. shot blocking, or the importance of 5-on-5 vs. special teams. A lot of people in this thread were arguing that the Penguins desperately needed a defenseman. I merely said in response that they were missing a big piece of their defensive puzzle as a result of Eaton's injury. And it's not just this streak. They were 7-4 to start the season before Eaton got injured, which prorates to 52 wins.

A defensive defenseman is not the only thing a team needs to win. All year long this team has had Crosby, Malkin, Recchi, and more recently, Staal (I think I saw he had 12 goals in 16 games). Good one-two punch when you have Crosby and Malkin anchoring the top two lines. They have puck-moving defensemen in Gonchar and Whitney (2nd and 9th in scoring among defensemen). But the Penguins needed a good stay-at-home defenseman this season, and if they have Eaton for the playoffs... it won't guarantee they won't be a complete bust, but it'll help.

"Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's a quality player..." totally kills your argument, because you quoted me as saying he's not their savior but rather a piece of a puzzle, and you've never even seen the guy play. You certainly don't believe yourself to be an authority on the Penguins by the way you've phrased things. You were able to catch the game because it was on early... I'm a season ticket holder.

* 1,594 goals have been scored on the powerplay in 8,978 chances in 894 games. That's about 1.8 goals/game on the powerplay. And it means there's 10 powerplays, about 5 for each team, per game (average conversion rate is 17.8%); 10 powerplays per game (not including fighting/coincidental calls) means potentially 20 minutes or 1/3 of a game on special teams--that is, if the penalty killers do their jobs

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

If "keeping pucks out of the net" is important, how is blocking shots not important? If it hits Eaton's shin pads, gloves, or chest protector, it's not going into the net.

Also, if the PK is in fact a "small majority" of the game, then it would be important, no? You're taking it further than I would! In reality, I see it as a large minority*, but I'm not going to sit here and debate the merits of +/- vs. shot blocking, or the importance of 5-on-5 vs. special teams. A lot of people in this thread were arguing that the Penguins desperately needed a defenseman. I merely said in response that they were missing a big piece of their defensive puzzle as a result of Eaton's injury. And it's not just this streak. They were 7-4 to start the season before Eaton got injured, which prorates to 52 wins.

A defensive defenseman is not the only thing a team needs to win. All year long this team has had Crosby, Malkin, Recchi, and more recently, Staal (I think I saw he had 12 goals in 16 games). Good one-two punch when you have Crosby and Malkin anchoring the top two lines. They have puck-moving defensemen in Gonchar and Whitney (2nd and 9th in scoring among defensemen). But the Penguins needed a good stay-at-home defenseman this season, and if they have Eaton for the playoffs... it won't guarantee they won't be a complete bust, but it'll help.

"Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he's a quality player..." totally kills your argument, because you quoted me as saying he's not their savior but rather a piece of a puzzle, and you've never even seen the guy play. You certainly don't believe yourself to be an authority on the Penguins by the way you've phrased things. You were able to catch the game because it was on early... I'm a season ticket holder.

* 1,594 goals have been scored on the powerplay in 8,978 chances in 894 games. That's about 1.8 goals/game on the powerplay. And it means there's 10 powerplays, about 5 for each team, per game (average conversion rate is 17.8%); 10 powerplays per game (not including fighting/coincidental calls) means potentially 20 minutes or 1/3 of a game on special teams--that is, if the penalty killers do their jobs

Obviously he doesn't keep a lot pucks out of nets if his PLUS/ MINUS is a whopping 3. You're a penguin fan, that's fine. I don't care. There's no reason why your PK should be on the ice all the time. If that's the case, maybe get a little more disciplined. He is on pace to be a +10 player with about 7 pts a year if you multiplied his 24 games into a full season. +10. He's good. But man, if you think he's your number one defense than like I said get another defensemen

Edited February 20, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[Anomalously 0]

Obviously he doesn't keep a lot pucks out of nets if his PLUS/ MINUS is a whopping 3. You're a penguin fan, that's fine. I don't care. There's no reason why your PK should be on the ice all the time. If that's the case, maybe get a little more disciplined. He is on pace to be a +10 player with about 7 pts a year if you multiplied his 24 games into a full season. +10. He's good. But man, if you think he's your number one defense than like I said get another defensemen

I'm not a Penguins fan. I'm a displaced Wings fan, having moved to Pennsylvania nine years ago. I am, however, a season ticket holder because I love going to games. To watch games when the Penguins aren't playing at home, I have Center Ice. Obviously you haven't watched more than one Penguins game, and it's even more obvious you weren't looking for #3 when you did watch. I didn't call him a number one defenseman, that's Sergei Gonchar. He is, however, the best defensive defenseman that the Penguins have and obviously if the Penguins are 18-5-1 with him in the lineup, they don't really need to search for another player -- it seems to be going just fine for them.

How long have you been watching hockey? Plus-minus is a lovely stat but it doesn't tell nearly the entire story. Lang and Draper are both +8, but I think one plays better defensive hockey. Kyle Quincey is on pace for a +41 season. Does that make him as good defensively as Lidstrom? Andreas Lilja was a +18 last year and he's a -1 this year -- did his game decline that much or was he bad last year, too? Or maybe he's changed defensive partners and he doesn't look quite as good now.

Watching games is a lot better than resorting to misleading statistics.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

just let it die. They're 29th on the PK and 25th in defense as a whole. What does it take to convince you they're not good defensively

[Guest Tunbo Batman]

lets give them that : they are exciting. id rather watch a 98-point season like theirs than endure the devils grapple and rope a dope their way to 104 points.

[wingslogo19 281]

just let it die. They're 29th on the PK and 25th in defense as a whole. What does it take to convince you they're not good defensively

Is that why the pens are in 4th

[cr00d 26]

We're ranked 1st on Sportsline's power ranking. And the pens are ranked 7th, they somehow dropped 2 spots since last week.

http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/story/10009884

[Kp-Wings 3]

TSN's reasoning of doing things sometimes is pretty weird. In the power rankings, a team could be on a 5 game winning streak, yet drop a few spots if they lose a guy to injury. Yet, a team that loses 5 in a row could go up if they get somebody back from injury, or make a trade (ala the Preds still holding on to 2nd on the power rankings just because they got Forsberg). If it was by wins or losses the past few games (like it should be), the Preds would probably be in 10th place on the power rankings.

[gowingsgo 3]

The Pens have been hot despite their loss Monday

[jagr68 0]

I don't see how anyone can be surprised the Pens were ranked higher than the Wings. The rankings are not based on the best team the last few years or the best team this entire season, it's the best teams for the week.

They should really have been ranked #1. They had the best record the last 10 games, and their streak was cut at 16 games. They went 16 games with a point. They finally lost to the Islanders. Before that the Pens earned 30 out of a possible 32 points.

I'm not completely sure what factors go into their rankings, but statistically they were the best. Maybe they factor in things such as home games, PP goals, records of other teams they played, etc. They didn't have all easy wins, they beat teams like Buffalo, Nashville, New Jersey and Dallas and beat teams they usually have a terrible time against, like Florida and Carolina.

The Pens lost to the Islanders. And for the first time, it was mainly due to Fleury playing a bad game. His first bad game in a very long time. He stole a lot of the wins the Pens had, but that game he just wasn't on. The winning goal the Islanders scored, is one that will bother him. And he let in another bad goal too. Only 26 seconds or so, they would have gained another point.

Are they a better team then the Wings? I don't think so. But the last 15 games or so they have. We'll have to see how they do after a regulation loss. They have a game coming up against Tampa Bay. They have not beat Tampa in about 11 straight games, maybe 12. If they can beat them, that would be huge for their confidence.

The Pens may be 24th in goals against, but they are 2nd in the league in goals scored and have played less games than most teams. During their streak their PP has been over 30%.

We knew their streak would end, but they deserve respect. I'm a huge Pens fan and I couldn't see them going 6 straight games with a point, so 16 was pretty amazing. I think they will make the playoffs. I can see them winning a playoff series long as it's not against Buffalo, New Jersey, or Atlanta. Guess they need to finish 4th or 5th which they probably will.

How about Crosby, 4pts last night gives him 197 career points. Just three more for 200 career points!

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

You said they're 24th on defense and 2nd on offense. It's hard to believe that a team who is so talented on one side and so bad on the other could be better than us. We have that defense you lack, we have a goaltender who averages letting in about 2.05 gpg and if you haven't noticed, our offense is running pretty smooth.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Just ran into CBS.Sportsline.com's NHL section and their power ranking column has Wings #1, Buffalo #2, Nashville #5, Pitt #7.

http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/story/10009884