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Bertuzzi ethics... help settle an argument

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My husband and I are going round and round about Bert playing still in the league after he hit Moore and ended his career. He states that he deliberately choose to sucker punch someone and ended their career. I stated that while I don't like what happened, it did and Bert has paid his dues. My hubby thinks that he should have retired and never played again; I say that it is no different than a hit from behind that hurt someone. Does anyone have any stats about career ending injuries on the ice due to hits? He did not intend to deliberately cripple the guy, it happened... help?? Thoughts?

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If you ask me even from a realistic pro-Moore standpoint Bertuzzi should still be playing. It'll make that 20 million civil lawsuit Moore and his family is filing against Bertuzzi more feasable since he'll have the big income of playing in the NHL.

Bertuzzi's been exiled by many fans, faced constant scorn and served 80 hours community service on top of a year's worth of probation due to an assault charge. So I feel with yet another change of scenery for the big man it's time to switch focus on things. There are alot more intriguing storeis brewing abou the NHL then some incodent that happened years ago on accident.

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My husband and I are going round and round about Bert playing still in the league after he hit Moore and ended his career. He states that he deliberately choose to sucker punch someone and ended their career. I stated that while I don't like what happened, it did and Bert has paid his dues. My hubby thinks that he should have retired and never played again; I say that it is no different than a hit from behind that hurt someone. Does anyone have any stats about career ending injuries on the ice due to hits? He did not intend to deliberately cripple the guy, it happened... help?? Thoughts?

I'd say that people in general need to get over it. It's done, no thing can "make up" for the fact that Moore can't play hockey anymore--I don't see why people have this need to try and fix the broken bottle of milk, when it's all over the floor.

I think if anything Bert -is- somewhat responsible for any financial winnings... provided that Moore really will have need for it at any point in his life, considering, yeah, this -is- the NHL, and yeah, this -is- where people get paid thousands and millions of dollars just to play a simple game. I don't know what you could really say to your hubby though--if he thinks that about Bert, I doubt there's anything to change his mind.

A lot of people don't change their minds in light of new evid. They just think what they want to, as long as they want to.

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The past is in the past. What Bert did was a stupid mistake, but he gave a heart felt apology. He knows he crossed a line and he will never do it again. Hasn`t the guy gone through enough? Yes, Steve Moore should get his settlement. Berts probably in therapy for what he did.

Let his life move on, and thats what his trade to the Wings has helped him do. I nice fresh start with a great (amazingly awsome good) team.

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I guess, other than the guilt of what you have done, is this different than a hit from behind? A hit on a concussion prone player on purpose?

It's even less than a hit from behind, honestly - there was no way Bert could have imagined that this would have resulted. He punched him, yeah, sucker punched him, and then all of Moore's Avs teammates dogpiled him once he fell... which I don't know for sure if -that- was what did it, but it definitely is questionable.

It's just sad.

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Another simple note, Bertuzzi struck Moore in frustration because he turned his back on him when he challenged him to a fight (never turn your back on an enemy btw.) The punch however didn't cause nearly as much damage as the fact of him toppling forward to the ice unable to protect himself, being stunned from the hit. The ensuing man-pile likely compounded any injuries that were caused by the initial collision with the ice.

All of that is irrelavant though when you take into consideration it was far from Bert's intentions for things to go that badly. Besides, Moore deserved to be retaliated against. His hit on Naslund might have been legal, but it was a clear lack of respect to charge someone of Naslund's calibur while he was reaching for the puck to make a play. Intending to injure someone like that is dirty and offensive despite whether legal or not. Had Bertuzzi simply roughed up Moore instead of having things go as badly as they did, he'd have been welcomed a hero in the locker room for standing up for his team's captain. However because Moore unfortunately was injured so badly we're still talking about it today. Had he been alright, and fell slightly different, no one would even care so please let's let this die.

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It's even less than a hit from behind, honestly - there was no way Bert could have imagined that this would have resulted. He punched him, yeah, sucker punched him, and then all of Moore's Avs teammates dogpiled him once he fell... which I don't know for sure if -that- was what did it, but it definitely is questionable.

It's just sad.

Yeah your right, Im sure the 3 or 4 Avs jumping on the pile didnt do any good for Steve Moores neck.

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I don't like Bertuzzi much on a personal level, but seriously, we got to let this incident just fade away.

It was in the heat of the moment act...

That still doesn't excuse what Bertuzzi did...

Bertuzzi probably regrets what he did...

He's done his time and is trying to resume a normall career...

He'll never forget this but he's moved on...

We should too.

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Bertuzzi certainly didn't intend to injure Moore to the extent that he did. Anyone who claims that Bertuzzi tried to break Moore's neck is an idiot or an Avs fan. And much has been made about Moore's broken neck but it was never as serious from a medical standpoint as many people claimed. There were 2 small undisplaced right-sided C3 and C4 transverse process fractures that required nothing more than for Moore to take it to easy for them to heal. Sometimes these fractures even go undiagnosed for a period of time.

The neck has not been what has kept Moore out of hockey. The only thing holding him back now is post-concussion syndrome; common among NHL'ers and commonly recovered from, especially after an initial concussion like Moore's. And interestingly enough, commonly recovered from in a far shorter time than it's taking Moore to recover.

I know. I'm sounding sceptical of Moore's injuries, but the vast majority of athletes who suffer a first moderate concussion go on to recover to play again. With a massive lawsuit launched by a player whose earning potential in the NHL would have never matched what he could have made in the lawsuit -- damn-right I'm sceptical.

But I hated what Bertuzzi did and it was a major meltdown on his part. He apologized and I felt it was sincere so as a Canucks fan and a forgiving person, I forgave him the same way I forgave Marty McSorley. I've seen Bertuzzi compared to pedophiles and murderers. The man has been truly vilified because of the publicity surrounding a player of his calibre and the injuries suffered by Moore. In my opinion he's paid his dues and it's time to move on. Hope he entertains you all very well and doesn't have too much of an impact against the Canucks.

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Hi All,

Here’s the thing was it a brutal hit and cheap shot? Yes. Was it all Bertuzzi’s fault? Yes and No. Every action has an equal reaction. Crawford was the one who wanted retaliation on Moore for Moore’s hit. Now to the question of should he been suspended for life? Who knows but the NHL did not think so. Moore was a goon as well and took a cheap shot and he didn’t get suspended so I guess the answerer is no. Bertuzzi did his time and it was on ice and not on the street so the laws should be different and he should not have had to face a judge any way.

Now about the law suit for Moore suing and tiring to get 20 Million and his family wants to get 2 Mill or so for stress. Give me a break it was on the ice during a NHL Hockey game that should not happen. When a football player gets a cheap shot and hurt you don’t see the player suing the NFL would not allow it. It’s a sport where retaliation happens. I know this will sound bad but, Moore should let it rest. Moore would of done the same thing mayby not a side of the head hit but would of retailated.

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what's in the past is in the past and i have to admit that i'm glad Bertuzzi is now on the wings but one thing you can't say is that he paid his dues for it. he ended missing like 15 games or so for ending a player's career. now emotionally i'm sure he's been through a lot but in no way did he get penalized enough for what he did

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what's in the past is in the past and i have to admit that i'm glad Bertuzzi is now on the wings but one thing you can't say is that he paid his dues for it. he ended missing like 15 games or so for ending a player's career. now emotionally i'm sure he's been through a lot but in no way did he get penalized enough for what he did

It was more than 15 games. Since he was suspended by the NHL, he missed the World Cup as well. He also could not play during the lockout because the every member league of the IIHF recognizes the suspensions of others. He was not reinstated by the NHL until August 2005, a year and a half suspension.

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Guest GordieSid&Ted

My husband and I are going round and round about Bert playing still in the league after he hit Moore and ended his career. He states that he deliberately choose to sucker punch someone and ended their career. I stated that while I don't like what happened, it did and Bert has paid his dues. My hubby thinks that he should have retired and never played again; I say that it is no different than a hit from behind that hurt someone. Does anyone have any stats about career ending injuries on the ice due to hits? He did not intend to deliberately cripple the guy, it happened... help?? Thoughts?

I suggest you find a clip of Matt Johnson when he was with the Kings I believe. Johnson skates up behind Jeff Beukeboom and delivers one of the most vicous sucker punches i've ever seen. Beukeboom was an enormous man, 6-5, 230 pounds maybe and a pretty good fighter and Johnson flat out KO'd him with a glove on punch from behind. It in effect ended Beukeboom's career.

Beukeboom couldn't play anymore, Johnson got suspended for like 10 games and nobody in the hockey world batted an eyelash.

Show your husband that clip. Then tell him that there have been about 1000 more incidents like this or worse (the Maki-Green stick to the head incident, Tie Domi KO'ing Ulf Samuelsson, etc...) The Bertuzzi incident resulted in the most freakish of injuries to Moore. And that's what it was, a freak incident. The actual punch, the intent from Bertuzzi IMO pales in comparison to the episode with Matt Johnson or even one with Gino Odjick punching Todd Harvey from behind. Those punches seemed to be thrown with more ferocity yet nobody got their neck broke. I guess the point i'm making is that maybe you can convince your husband that what Bertuzzi did is not all that uncommon in hockey. It's a cheapshot no doubt but hardly the most wicked cheapshot in history, it just had the most devastating effect. The injury to Moore was probably one in a million but the actual act by Bertuzzi was nothing too out of the ordinary as far as hockey cheap shots go.

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It is impossible to institute a rule that makes it that a person who injures a player should sit out as long as the injured player is out.

The punishment should fit the crime and while I feel Bertuzzi still should've sat some more games last year, I don't feel he should be banned from the league.

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Guest Crymson

My husband and I are going round and round about Bert playing still in the league after he hit Moore and ended his career. He states that he deliberately choose to sucker punch someone and ended their career. I stated that while I don't like what happened, it did and Bert has paid his dues. My hubby thinks that he should have retired and never played again; I say that it is no different than a hit from behind that hurt someone. Does anyone have any stats about career ending injuries on the ice due to hits? He did not intend to deliberately cripple the guy, it happened... help?? Thoughts?

I doubt that Bert intended to cripple the guy. Who do so?

For ethical reasons, I did not want the team to pick up Bert. However, I feel that since he's on the team any further discussion is entirely academic. What can we do?

It is impossible to institute a rule that makes it that a person who injures a player should sit out as long as the injured player is out.

Yeah, that'd be a mess. Imagine putting on a slightly illegal hit and causing an entirely fluky injury, then needing to sit out for who knows how long until the guy you hit comes back to the ice.

Noooo way.

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what's in the past is in the past and i have to admit that i'm glad Bertuzzi is now on the wings but one thing you can't say is that he paid his dues for it. he ended missing like 15 games or so for ending a player's career. now emotionally i'm sure he's been through a lot but in no way did he get penalized enough for what he did

Read my first post in this thread and throw in the fact he also missed the playoffs. Had he been on Vancouver's roster they'd have beaten Calgary rather than lose it in 7 most likely. Do we remember how Calgary fared that year at all?

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I suggest you find a clip of Matt Johnson when he was with the Kings I believe. Johnson skates up behind Jeff Beukeboom and delivers one of the most vicous sucker punches i've ever seen. Beukeboom was an enormous man, 6-5, 230 pounds maybe and a pretty good fighter and Johnson flat out KO'd him with a glove on punch from behind. It in effect ended Beukeboom's career.

Beukeboom couldn't play anymore, Johnson got suspended for like 10 games and nobody in the hockey world batted an eyelash.

Show your husband that clip. Then tell him that there have been about 1000 more incidents like this or worse (the Maki-Green stick to the head incident, Tie Domi KO'ing Ulf Samuelsson, etc...) The Bertuzzi incident resulted in the most freakish of injuries to Moore. And that's what it was, a freak incident. The actual punch, the intent from Bertuzzi IMO pales in comparison to the episode with Matt Johnson or even one with Gino Odjick punching Todd Harvey from behind. Those punches seemed to be thrown with more ferocity yet nobody got their neck broke. I guess the point i'm making is that maybe you can convince your husband that what Bertuzzi did is not all that uncommon in hockey. It's a cheapshot no doubt but hardly the most wicked cheapshot in history, it just had the most devastating effect. The injury to Moore was probably one in a million but the actual act by Bertuzzi was nothing too out of the ordinary as far as hockey cheap shots go.

Very good examples. Odjick hitting Harvey was crazy. Out of nowhere he just totally clocks Harvey right in the jaw! That wasnt a love tap either, he had some serious force behind that one.

Edited by Lou_Siffer

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It is impossible to institute a rule that makes it that a person who injures a player should sit out as long as the injured player is out.

The punishment should fit the crime and while I feel Bertuzzi still should've sat some more games last year, I don't feel he should be banned from the league.

I've actually always thought there should be such a rule - obviously with a "clear intent to injure" clause however. Length of the injury, plus five games. But capped at a year.

Granted it would indeed be a difficult rule - for it to work it'd have to be filled with all kinds of definitions and clauses and such. And there would be a dilemma of, lets say Joe Thornton loses his temper and injures a fourth-liner Duck; what's to stop the Ducks from claiming their player is hurt much longer than he really is and deny their main rival the services of their best player? So yeah, it'd probably have too many obstacles to really come into play - but, still, I hate it when a guy like Marchment or Bryan Allen can get a chintzy five-game suspension for deliberately causing a knee injury that ends a season in November.

I suppose it's only fair that Bert pay a monetary compensation of some kind - after all, his actions did result in the end of Moore's career, even though Moore's injury was fluky. But ban him from the NHL? No, I would say that's not necessary in any case like this unless the player in question were a repeat offender and/or considered too dangerous to be allowed on the ice. I very much doubt that's the case with Bert here.

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I suggest you find a clip of Matt Johnson when he was with the Kings I believe. Johnson skates up behind Jeff Beukeboom and delivers one of the most vicous sucker punches i've ever seen. Beukeboom was an enormous man, 6-5, 230 pounds maybe and a pretty good fighter and Johnson flat out KO'd him with a glove on punch from behind. It in effect ended Beukeboom's career.

Beukeboom couldn't play anymore, Johnson got suspended for like 10 games and nobody in the hockey world batted an eyelash.

Show your husband that clip. Then tell him that there have been about 1000 more incidents like this or worse (the Maki-Green stick to the head incident, Tie Domi KO'ing Ulf Samuelsson, etc...) The Bertuzzi incident resulted in the most freakish of injuries to Moore. And that's what it was, a freak incident. The actual punch, the intent from Bertuzzi IMO pales in comparison to the episode with Matt Johnson or even one with Gino Odjick punching Todd Harvey from behind. Those punches seemed to be thrown with more ferocity yet nobody got their neck broke. I guess the point i'm making is that maybe you can convince your husband that what Bertuzzi did is not all that uncommon in hockey. It's a cheapshot no doubt but hardly the most wicked cheapshot in history, it just had the most devastating effect. The injury to Moore was probably one in a million but the actual act by Bertuzzi was nothing too out of the ordinary as far as hockey cheap shots go.

The fact that what Bertuzzi did has to be compared to those incidents to show that it's not THE worst thing to ever happen in the NHL shows just how bad it was.

Although I think Eddie Shore might be a better example...a ridiculous, unexpected, and unwarranted assault by a star player that caused career-ending injury.

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The neck has not been what has kept Moore out of hockey. The only thing holding him back now is post-concussion syndrome; common among NHL'ers and commonly recovered from, especially after an initial concussion like Moore's. And interestingly enough, commonly recovered from in a far shorter time than it's taking Moore to recover.

I know. I'm sounding sceptical of Moore's injuries, but the vast majority of athletes who suffer a first moderate concussion go on to recover to play again. With a massive lawsuit launched by a player whose earning potential in the NHL would have never matched what he could have made in the lawsuit -- damn-right I'm sceptical.

But its steve Moore ,an avs, a duster , a 4th liner.

Bertuzzi has payed his dues , teh media needs to drop it

Agreed..... I always get so frustrated at people who take such pro-Moore extremes as to say Bertuzzi is a violent criminal, who should never play hockey again, who should be in jail, etc. Todd has paid his dues in full, he has issued a very sincere apology, and has put up with the scrutinizing media for a long time.

I have a lot of respect for how he has handled the situation over the past three years, contra Steve Moore who has ignored the apology, instead opting to take it to the courts thinking he can make more money there than he could at hockey.....a cheap shot in itself as far as I'm concerned.... <_<

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Yeah your right, Im sure the 3 or 4 Avs jumping on the pile didnt do any good for Steve Moores neck.

Nor did it do the real damage. This debate is old and settled. It was the punch and driving Moore's face into the ice. Period. Don't start to sound like NUCKleheads now... Bert meant to hurt to him and did so; there's no way around it. He totally lost it. But I doubt he expected to cause permanent, career-ending damage. And what a career! Moore was a marginal player, let's face it. I think it's a fair question to ask, whether he would make out better in a courtroom or the icerink in the long run... The fact that Moore looked like a mealy-mouthed little weasel with his neckbrace on afterward should have no bearing on the situation. Ahem... but I digress.

Bertuzzi has been vilified because of it and he has paid dearly for his actions. I don't believe in shunning him for the rest of his life. Time to move on. And if you can't move on, atleast STFU.

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I would like to put more "blame" on the league itself, if they took away the instigator rule, then this probably would have never happened. Moore a player I had ever heard of before this incident takes a run at the captain. No one goes out and deals with it then as they are all scared of an extra 2 minutes or even a suspension. Look at the sabres - sens game - Neil hits Drury, Drury gets hurt - (I forget the name) but another sabre goes and drops the gloves with neil ASAP. Now the Ruff sending the goons out was a bit much, but it was dealt with that game and the next game 2 nights later is calmer then what could have been

Bertuzzi is a very skilled hockey player and is only 32, he made one mistake and i think its time everyone drops it and gets over it. I have seen this guy play first hand and man its great to see him in the red and white

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