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Peguins Declare Impasse in Arena Talks...


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#21 MacK_Attack

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 08:53 PM

QUOTE(Majsheppard @ March 5, 2007 - 08:21PM) View Post

I don't care what was said in any posts or in previous talks at the meetings. The Wings have desire to move east and alot of pull. If the West with the exception of the Wings wants them to stay, and all of the East wants the Wings to move east, that means 16-14 Wings win and go East.
Plus if they move the Jackets east, I will burn their building to the ground. flamingmad.gif Then we will go anyways.

The Western teams will vote to keep Detroit in the East, and most of the East teams really don't care all that much, so they will probably vote to with the other Western teams. It would be better for league economics to keep Detroit in the West, which is why it will be Columbus going East.

Detroit has a huge impact on attendance in the West, but would have minimal impact in the East. They would be playing a lot of their road games in Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal & Buffalo, where the seats are already full.

Also, motions need a 2/3 vote of confidence from the board to pass, so at least 20 votes are needed.

Edited by MacK_Attack, 05 March 2007 - 08:54 PM.


#22 Blood On The Ice

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:18 PM

QUOTE(Icer @ March 5, 2007 - 04:16PM) View Post

1. Penguins to Kansas City.
2. Detroit to Eastern Conference.



I would love to see the Wings in the East. However, I do not believe the NHL will ever allow that to happen. The wings are the big money winner in the west. The NHL and the other west teams count on the money that the Wings bring to thier markets. Look for them to move Columbus or even Nashville

#23 Majsheppard

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:25 PM

QUOTE(MacK_Attack @ March 5, 2007 - 08:53PM) View Post

The Western teams will vote to keep Detroit in the East, and most of the East teams really don't care all that much, so they will probably vote to with the other Western teams. It would be better for league economics to keep Detroit in the West, which is why it will be Columbus going East.

Detroit has a huge impact on attendance in the West, but would have minimal impact in the East. They would be playing a lot of their road games in Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal & Buffalo, where the seats are already full.

Also, motions need a 2/3 vote of confidence from the board to pass, so at least 20 votes are needed.


uhh a few things wrong here.

1. Detroit is the number one drawing away team in the league. If the teams in the East like money, they will want more games against the Wings. Trust me, ever single team in the East will vote with Detroit.

2. Motions do need a 2/3rds vote, but in the case of Pittsburgh moving physically to the west the case becomes one in which it is not a motion. It is a necessary thing, it will be decided on a majority basis.
Even if it is not, then Columbus wouldn't get the 2/3rds because, like I said before and everyone should agree, people want the money Detroit brings.

3. The league does not want to make an enemy of the Illich family. If they step in the way of their seniority, it will mean war. The NHL is not on very firm ground for a power struggle.

4.hmm, Teams like Ottawa, Montreal, and Toronto where seats are already full? You mean nothing like teams like Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, or Colorado. You know West teams where the seats are already sold.

Just like how Phoenix can charge extra for games against Detroit, so can teams like Tampa and Florida.

Edited by Majsheppard, 05 March 2007 - 09:30 PM.

"It is a lot easier to be an ******* to words than to people"-xkcd

Tootoo does NOT belong on this team. He is classless and I would rather see the Wings be bad than classless. I feel the same way about Bertuzzi as well, but he at least CAN make the team better. With Tootoo the team becomes worse and in danger of being classless. Would you have liked Claude on the team? Or Roy? No. So why would you be okay with that POS.

This thread has been closed due to emotions being higher than people's ability to read, interpret, and properly respond to simple posts.

#24 MacK_Attack

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:43 PM

QUOTE(Majsheppard @ March 5, 2007 - 09:25PM) View Post

uhh two things wrong here.

1. Detroit is the number one drawing away team in the league. If the teams in the East like money, they will want more games against the Wings. Trust me, ever single team in the East will vote with Detroit.

Yes, but unlike the West, the East has many teams that draw very well.

Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Rangers, Philadelphia already draw very well. It wouldn't mean much, if any, additional revenue for those teams. What would be the benefit?

QUOTE(Majsheppard @ March 5, 2007 - 09:25PM) View Post

Just like how Phoenix can charge extra for games against Detroit, so can teams like Tampa and Florida.

Tampa already sells out every game.

#25 T-Ruff

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:45 PM

QUOTE(Majsheppard @ March 5, 2007 - 09:25PM) View Post

1. Detroit is the number one drawing away team in the league. If the teams in the East like money, they will want more games against the Wings. Trust me, ever single team in the East will vote with Detroit.

2. Motions do need a 2/3rds vote, but in the case of Pittsburgh moving physically to the west the case becomes one in which it is not a motion. It is a necessary thing, it will be decided on a majority basis.
Even if it is not, then Columbus wouldn't get the 2/3rds because, like I said before and everyone should agree, people want the money Detroit brings.


If 15 teams in the East vote for Detroit to move to the East because of Detroit being a good drawing away team wouldn't the teams in the West vote against Detroit for that very same reason? The West doesn't have draws like Crosby, Ovechkin, Toronto, Montreal, either.... methinks their would sooner be a majority vote for a Columbus move than Detroit...... crazy.gif

That is, however, not taking into account seniority, ownership as you mentioned, and other possible factors.....

#26 sixer

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:46 PM

Go East!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#27 auxlepli

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:48 PM

I've reached my threshold with Mario, et. al. ... STFU or move.

#28 Yzermania19

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:48 PM


Are we fairly certain the Pens would go to Kansas City? I mean, the NHL already tried that 30 years ago and couldn't cut it, so they bailed after 2 seasons. I think it would be a mistake to put a team there.

Of course Bettman put a team in Atlanta again, too, so who knows?
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#29 evilmrt

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 11:13 PM

QUOTE(T-Ruff @ March 5, 2007 - 09:45PM) View Post

If 15 teams in the East vote for Detroit to move to the East because of Detroit being a good drawing away team wouldn't the teams in the West vote against Detroit for that very same reason? The West doesn't have draws like Crosby, Ovechkin, Toronto, Montreal, either.... methinks their would sooner be a majority vote for a Columbus move than Detroit...... crazy.gif

That is, however, not taking into account seniority, ownership as you mentioned, and other possible factors.....


If you want to talk about drawing people...

You guys seem to forget that the West will be getting Crosby...plus Malkin, etc. Sid the kid is the next Gretz. Thats actually a big loss for the East. People come to away games in low-draw markets just to see this guy play.

On that note, CBJ doesn't seem a very fair trade for the Pens + Crosby, does it? laugh.gif I'd say the Wings look more attractive.





#30 Viperar

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 11:27 PM

evilmrt, i completely agree
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#31 MacK_Attack

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 01:23 AM

QUOTE(Yzermania19 @ March 5, 2007 - 09:48PM) View Post

Are we fairly certain the Pens would go to Kansas City? I mean, the NHL already tried that 30 years ago and couldn't cut it, so they bailed after 2 seasons. I think it would be a mistake to put a team there.

Of course Bettman put a team in Atlanta again, too, so who knows?

It was a different scenario in the 70s. That team was doomed from the beginning, largely from cheap ownership. They cut every corner imaginable, which meant that no star players stood a chance of ending up in a Scouts uniform.

The fans realized this quickly and stopped caring.

Also, Kansas City is much larger now than it was 30 years ago. It can handle the team.

#32 juice71285

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 02:00 AM

There is no doubt in my mind that IF Pittsburgh moves its going to be in Kansas City. Kansas City is a very good pick to in my mind. The reason being is that in the last thirty years the Midwest and Plains states have become a hot spot for hockey. Look at all the recent editions to the AHL Omaha, Iowa, Peoria, possibly Rockford, IL. If they would have tried this even fifteen years ago it wouldn't have happened. Also the UHL is almost enitrely based in the Midwest, while the CHL is mostly Texas and surrounding states. You take a look at the top two junior A programs and one of the top junior B programs (USHL, NAHL-A and CSHL-B) have their entire leagues in the Midwest and Plains.

Kansas City may not be a very big city but it does have some close proximity to other somewhat smaller cities such as Independence and others. Also Topeka is about an hour to hour and a half drive from there. You know people will be willing to drive that if they get the likes of Crosby and Malkin.

As for what happens with Detroit whether or not they move East, I could care less. All I care is about them playing and rooting them on. I don't want to see what happened a couple seasons ago happen again.

On a personal note, I wish I had the money and resources to start up my own little semi-pro league here in the Midwest. Being in Illinois near Peoria, which has had some form of semi-pro to pro hockey for quite some time now. I would like to recreate the old Continental Hockey League, or All-American League. A lot of these cities that held these teams have grown, and some now do support some semi-pro to pro league teams. These teams would mostly be made of local guys who have some junior or college level experience. Since these guys are local to their areas I think it would draw some good crowds not to mention a lot of these teams would have at least 1 or 2 other teams in close proximity so you would have some good rivalries started up.

I know you guys probably didn't care about that last paragraph but oh well its there.

#33 Olympia Stadium Fan

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 08:21 AM

QUOTE(auxlepli @ March 5, 2007 - 09:48PM) View Post

I've reached my threshold with Mario, et. al. ... STFU or move.


Why blame Mario? He's been trying to get a new arena for YEARS. Blame the idiot governor and local officials. See this link--very few Mario bashers from those closer to the situation:

http://bwi.rivals.co...a...751&style=1
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http://sports.groups...PIASTADIUM1927/

#34 The Enforcer

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 03:46 PM

I could care less where Pit ends up.......It's actually getting kind of old listening to "Super Mario" whine about his luck. Make a decision, stick with it and quit holding the people hostage.
"The place was filled with every cutthroat and low-life from Bombay to Calcutta. It was worse than being in Detroit."

#35 YoungGuns1340

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 05:26 PM

Is anyone else sick of other teams piggybacking off of the Red Wings? I understand that our team benefits from having great ownership, but it is pathetic how often Illitch has to pay for other owners not pulling their weight. Take some money out of your pockets, put it towards some exciting players, and stop complaining about how the Red Wings organization is monopolizing the sport of hockey in the U.S.


Simply because Detroit is a great pull - meaning, it cares about winning and Illitch runs this organization as such - it may be stuck in the West just so our fans can complement other teams income.

Edited by YoungGuns1340, 06 March 2007 - 05:27 PM.

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#36 Wingsfan31

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 05:34 PM

The Wings have been propping up franchises in the West for better than 10 years now. Hell, the Wings games are about the only time Nashville sells out. There is no way the Wings move East aside from Ilitch threatening to dissolve the team or some other drastic move. The NHL won't allow it, they'll move C-bus East and either go back to the two-division format with KC, Minny and Dallas in the "Norris" for lack of a better description. Or, they'll keep things they way they are and move Minny into the Central and try to make it so K.C. plays in the N.W. division, or whatever they call it this week, so Sid the Kid can get home to Canada four times a year in Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver.

#37 Hiei

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 07:43 PM

http://en.wikipedia....sburgh_Penguins

Kansas City, MO (Large town, an arena that isn't Kemper, neighboring cities of Independence, KC Kansas, plus fans from Joplin-2 hours, Topeka-1/1.5 hours, and Northwestern Arkansas maybe-3 hours)
Portland, OR (Rose Garden has the NBA, No NHL Teams in the Northwest, save for Vancouver)
Houston, TX (AHL Success, Dallas is the only NHL team in Texas, home to many minor league franchises, Largest City in Texas)
Winnipeg, MB (Once had the Jets now Coyotes, New arena although it only holds a little over 15,000)
Tulsa, OK (Metro Area with Bartlesville totals 1 million, New BOK Center opening Oct, 08, Good draw from CHL's Oilers already, Oklahoma City is 2 hours away, Northwestern Arkansas is 1.5 hours away)

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#38 HoustonWingsFan

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 08:50 PM

By DALE ROBERTSON
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell says he will turn to the NHL to prevent the Pittsburgh Penguins from leaving the state.
The announcement came one day after the team said it had reached an impasse in negotiations with state, county and local officials to finance a new arena.
``The governor believes we have put an exceptionally attractive offer on the table,'' according to a statement released by Rendell's office.
Later in the day, Rendell told reporters, ``If they don't take it, we're going to be up in New York asking the NHL to bar the Penguins from moving.''

Formidable obstacles on all fronts remain before Houston sports fans should dare believe it possible the city could inherit the NHL's best young hockey team, but it now seems likely the Pittsburgh Penguins' owners will finally pay a visit this week to tour the Toyota Center.

Lemeiux and Burkle will then fly on to Los Angeles, where the company that's going to operate Kansas City's new arena is based, to continue discussions on a possible lease. Kansas City is assumed to have the inside track on landing the Penguins if Pittsburgh can't keep them. However, before returning home, Lemieux and Burkle are said to be contemplating a detour through Houston.


Late last week it appeared the Penguins was close to finalizing a deal on the construction of a building to replace Pittsburgh's nearly half-century old Mellon Arena. But team officials, who had been silent on the subject for weeks, suddenly issued a statement Monday declaring an impasse, saying they intended "to aggressively explore relocation."

The biggest hurdle for a move to Houston, even if the Penguins prove willing, is thought to be Alexander. A team as attractive as the Penguins, who are led by 19-year-old superstar Sidney Crosby, could become a drain on the Rockets' revenues that whatever extra income it generated might not offset. Also, while Alexander has expressed interest in bringing hockey to Houston, it has always been assumed he would only want to own the NHL team himself.



#39 evilmrt

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 10:22 PM

QUOTE(HoustonWingsFan @ March 6, 2007 - 08:50PM) View Post

Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell says he will turn to the NHL to prevent the Pittsburgh Penguins from leaving the state.
The announcement came one day after the team said it had reached an impasse in negotiations with state, county and local officials to finance a new arena.
``The governor believes we have put an exceptionally attractive offer on the table,'' according to a statement released by Rendell's office.
Later in the day, Rendell told reporters, ``If they don't take it, we're going to be up in New York asking the NHL to bar the Penguins from moving.''


This is getting to be rediculous. Didn't we hear this before? If Rendell doesn't want the Pens to move out of his state, maybe he should try to push forward a better package for a new arena. Money talks, not whining to Uncle Bettman about Mario and how he won't play nice.

How about the odds on Bettman banning a move?

#40 theman19

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 10:33 PM

zero, the nhl will promptly tell the penn. goverment to pay up or stay out of the way





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