Cherry on the Wings...

[scotzman 29]

Let me preface this by saying I am a die-hard Wings fan and always will be, but we have to many emotionless games... I love winning, but I would love it even more if we had a little passion.

Let Don Cherry explain (after all the Simon stuff).

[Heaton 1]

He's taking a very narrow minded look at the Wings games.

1. The Wings have had ZERO competition in the regular season, how the hell are we supposed to have passionate regular season games if almost every single team we play against is a push over? Hell, we routinely take off the first 2 periods just to play hard for 15-20 minutes and get our 2 points.

2) About the Joe having empty seats, like, OMG! Every arena has empty seats these days, the Joe is no exception.

3) It's nothing new that Wings fans have had the mentality of waiting for the playoffs to come around to get passionate, I'm not that way, but I can see why it is. Adding Bertuzzi helps and re-signing him would probably help a little more.

4) Losing guys like Yzerman and Shanahan is going to hurt ANY team, Yzerman was our passion, he was our emotion. It's going to take a few years to adjust.

[scotzman 29]

He's taking a very narrow minded look at the Wings games.

1. The Wings have had ZERO competition in the regular season, how the hell are we supposed to have passionate regular season games if almost every single team we play against is a push over? Hell, we routinely take off the first 2 periods just to play hard for 15-20 minutes and get our 2 points.

2) About the Joe having empty seats, like, OMG! Every arena has empty seats these days, the Joe is no exception.

3) It's nothing new that Wings fans have had the mentality of waiting for the playoffs to come around to get passionate, I'm not that way, but I can see why it is. Adding Bertuzzi helps and re-signing him would probably help a little more.

4) Losing guys like Yzerman and Shanahan is going to hurt ANY team, Yzerman was our passion, he was our emotion. It's going to take a few years to adjust.

Like I said, I love the Wings and I will always watch them, but you look at how crazy everyone went when the Senators and the Sabres got into it. Are you telling me you don't remember the passion and excitement of the games we played with Colorado? That was an amazing time to be a Wings fan... we probably helped put the Avs franchise in a great position to succeed based on that rivalry alone.

Even when the Wings were not that great in the 80's, people loved being a part of the action at the Joe, because you had guys like Probert and Kocur along with a Superstar in Steve Yzerman.

I think Cherry's observation has some validity.

[WhiteLightning91 105]

4) ...Yzerman was our passion, he was our emotion...

And yet there were a ton of empty seats at that game because it was boring as hell...

[BlueMonk 102]

The stuff he says about Wings fans is absolutely correct. There are other reasons for declining attendance, and it's everywhere, not just Detroit. But does the lack of any hitting (I'm talking meaningful hits, not some flimsy attempt at a body check by Jiri Hudler) detract from the enthusiasm of the fans? I believe so. Fans get fired up about the hits and fights, especially when they've seen what a really physical hockey game can be. We had that for a long time around here, but it's not an element of this team. It's hard to have a rivalry with any club when they're the only ones doing the hitting.

There are a ton of other factors, but that's a very legitimate one and I'm glad Cherry brought it up.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

He's pretty much right on.

I will say however, that once this team gets healthy and everyone is back in the line up..that the *passion* will come back. Having Bert come in will make a huge difference,especially heading into the post season.

Edited March 11, 2007 by hockeycrazy3033

[joshy207 156]

The games are boring. Part of that is because there's not nearly enough emotion on the ice, but part of it also comes from the fact that there are so many empty seats. The overselling of corporate season tickets is a problem. Too many of those seats go unused--either nobody from the company takes the tickets, or they spend the entire night in the Olympia Room impressing clients or dates. Also, with our horrid economy in Michigan, less and less fans can afford to go to games. If they'd cut the corporate ticket sales down and lower ticket prices in general (especially the top of the upper bowl), more fans would be in their seats watching the game, and the atmosphere would improve.

I also think the fans would rather watch a hard-working "blue-collar" team--like the Pistons or Tigers--since this is a blue-collar city. People here identify with that kind of player and team. More big hits, a more intimidating style of play, more fights... that's why I like watching the late games on HNIC, it's always a Western Canadian team and they always play that style. Most of the best games I've watched this year have been those late Saturday games. A team that plays that hard-nosed, in-your-face style would KILL in Detroit. Adding Bertuzzi and Calder was a good first step, but they need to add more guys of that mold this summer.

[Heaton 1]

The stuff he says about Wings fans is absolutely correct. There are other reasons for declining attendance, and it's everywhere, not just Detroit. But does the lack of any hitting (I'm talking meaningful hits, not some flimsy attempt at a body check by Jiri Hudler) detract from the enthusiasm of the fans? I believe so. Fans get fired up about the hits and fights, especially when they've seen what a really physical hockey game can be. We had that for a long time around here, but it's not an element of this team. It's hard to have a rivalry with any club when they're the only ones doing the hitting.

There are a ton of other factors, but that's a very legitimate one and I'm glad Cherry brought it up.

But don't you also agree that passion also comes from competition? We could be a very heavy hitting team and have tough physical games against St. Louis, Columbus and Chicago every time, but if we win 95% of the time and do it easily, I don't think it would make a difference. I don't care if we have the Calgary Flames of 2004 lineup or have the hardest working team in the league, if the other team sucks, you're not going to be as passionate as you would be if the other team were good.

I'm also not sure how you could say Wings games are boring, every Preds game has been entertaining but like I said, too many games are too easy for the Wings. Did you think the playoff series last year was boring?

Edited March 11, 2007 by Heaton

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

The games are boring. Part of that is because there's not nearly enough emotion on the ice, but part of it also comes from the fact that there are so many empty seats. The overselling of corporate season tickets is a problem. Too many of those seats go unused--either nobody from the company takes the tickets, or they spend the entire night in the Olympia Room impressing clients or dates. Also, with our horrid economy in Michigan, less and less fans can afford to go to games. If they'd cut the corporate ticket sales down and lower ticket prices in general (especially the top of the upper bowl), more fans would be in their seats watching the game, and the atmosphere would improve.

That is pretty much dead on. I'm sick of the corporate business crap. The real/true fans of the Wings rarely get to go to games because of this. They look for tickets and it's sold out because a bunch of guys in suits that don't give two s***s about the game have tickets, and won't use them or will go there and just talk during the entire game. Also right about ticket prices. They are way too high.

[My GF Wishes I Was Hank 0]

Ok i watched this live tonight on hockey night in canada and again just now, and i dont really understnad what this guy is bitching about. Hes complaining that the wngs dont have any hitters. Well the last 2 years thats what hte league was trying to get rid of. They got rid of the big "enforcer" on most teams because they beleived it was to violent for the game and they wanted less injuries. Now this season more and more they are starting to state that we need those types of players again. So we went out and aquired some grit with calder and bertuzzi. And now hes saying that we are playing without emotion? I dont get that. What does that even mean? Cause last time i checked, there was plenty of emotion out there. Just because we arent creaming the other team into the boards and we are beating them in a fairly clean game of hockey doesnt mean we dont have any passion. And that cut about the attendance? Every team in the NHL has been having declines in attendance. The only problem with the wings i think is the fact that so many people/businesses have season tickets. And for the most part, these businesses dont have anyone that wants to go so they sit there and get wasted. Myself, i know of atleast 15 different busineses that have 2 seats a pieace that more than half of the time do not get used. For some reason so many seats were sold to season tiket holders. The even biiger shame is that there is a list with a 3 year long wait to purchase season tickets for the wings. So you have all these businesses that are wasting these tickets and taking perefectly god seats away from epople who could actually enoy them. Getting back to the first topic, Now im a huge supporter for the Enforcer, i hated how htey started to faze it out. Brett Hull said it best when he said "its because of those type of players that players like me get to be so good" The league needs these type of players, but i dont think that by bringing them back that attendance is going to get any better. And i dont think that by bringing these types of players back that teams are going to start to show more "emotion". I dunno maybe im just a little confused on what Cherry was trying to say....go figured right? Because hes always so clear on exactly how he feels about everything hahaha

Oh and another thing....lower the costs of the fricken tickets and maybe the attendance will go up. You pay 44 bucks for decents seats for 3 periods of play. Hell i can go to 4 tigers games for he same price. Prices are just ridiculous especially with the decreasing economy around here. I hate how sports have become all about profit and less about the actual game...

[YoungGuns1340 1]

But don't you also agree that passion also comes from competition? We could be a very heavy hitting team and have tough physical games against St. Louis, Columbus and Chicago every time, but if we win 95% of the time and do it easily, I don't think it would make a difference. I don't care if we have the Calgary Flames of 2004 lineup or have the hardest working team in the league, if the other team sucks, you're not going to be as passionate as you would be if the other team were good.

I'm also not sure how you could say Wings games are boring, every Preds game has been entertaining but like I said, too many games are too easy for the Wings. Did you think the playoff series last year was boring?

I COMPLETELY agree. Ive been to an Oilers game and the Kings game last night so far this year and BOTH games, because they were close and competitive, were very emotional in terms of the audience.

...and in case anyone doesnt know, DON CHERRY IS PRO CANADIAN EVERYTHING. Hes pushing Staal for rookie of the year over Malkin. Staal's having a great year, but Malkin is the clear-cut winner hands down. This is coming from the SAME guy that thinks Nick Lidstrom ISN'T one of the best defenseman in the league because he doesnt HIT enough.

In any academic realm, Cherry would be termed a racist. The Red Wings have a predominantly European team and (surprise) they're still doing well. He completely overlooks the fact that ALL of Detroits biggest hitters - Kronwall, Markov, and Franzen - are (surprise again) ALL European players.

Now, do I agree that the Wings need more edge? Absolutely. Would it be nice to see more fights and harder-hitting? Hell yes. But he acts like the Wings are a soft team because Ken Holland wants it that way. He completely forgot what happened when the salary cap came in: players with cap unfriendly salaries were cut loose. And who was cut loose????? MCCARTY and HATCHER. Is it because Holland hates grit and north americans or is it because its not logical to tie up 7.5 million in two guys who arent even suited for the new league??

Its great and all that Cherry thinks their should be more physicality on the Wings and in the league in general - I AGREE -but picking on the Wings for trying to assemble a competitive team after cutting their salary IN HALF and doing it at a time when Zetterberg, Cleary, Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Markov, and Kopecky - most of which are emotional, hard-nosed players nonetheless - says a lot about Cherry's agenda.

Edited March 11, 2007 by YoungGuns1340

[Majsheppard 203]

I would agree with what he says.

It is the fact that they have become even more finesse based that has driven off many casual fans.

I myself love the game of hockey, so I apprecate the Wings for playing it at such a high level with such consistancy. I just wish they were the a bit more complete at times, which is why I will always pick an Orr or a Howe as the best player over a Gretsky anyday.

They played a more complete game and where entertaining for more then one reason.

Like it has been said in this thread, the fans are complacent. They see the Wings as a team that will play this skill style of hockey and can be ignored until the playoffs, when its for all the marbles and the game is more inline with what Don thinks is the best type of hockey.

[theman19 47]

the nhl reached its real peak in popularity in the late 80's early 90's,....why? There was character to the game

yes you had the flashy guys who could score flat out or, just fly like the wind, but those guys arn't nearly as remembered as the guys who lunchbucketed it, guys like probert and kocur are a perfect example. During those days in the late 80s when we really stunk it up we still had fans? why? Because we had the flash in yzerman and the blue collar efforts of probert and kocur. The NHL is at an impass we have a league full of guys who can straight score all day and who are truly amazing, now where's the passion. Where's the mcsorlys, proberts, kocur, hell where are the domi's? hockey needs passion,..which means hockey needs fighting and hitting.

[CrossCheck24 2]

1. The Wings have had ZERO competition in the regular season, how the hell are we supposed to have passionate regular season games if almost every single team we play against is a push over? Hell, we routinely take off the first 2 periods just to play hard for 15-20 minutes and get our 2 points.

If every team is a pushover we should be on top of the league by a large margin.

They should be passionate because they are gatting a 6 or 7 figure paycheck.

They should be passionate because the playoffs start soon.

They should be passionate to please the fans because the fans pay their salaries.

The reason I don't watch the NBA is because they don't try, college BB is much more intense and exciting. I hope hockey doesn't end up like that. I have always thought that the NHL has always been the best sport becaue they players payed less and played harder than any other pro sport. Hopefully they keep it like that.

If it were a different situation, I don't think anyone would go to a concert or to a movie or play that the band/actors didn't bother to perform the the first 2/3 of the show. I know that if I "took a period off" any of my coaches would have me sitting for the rest of the game and skating for the next practice.

Bring back fighting. Fighting = Intensity

The wings will get a wake up call when Dats/Zet gets injured on a cheap shot and there is no one to stand up for them.

Edited March 11, 2007 by CrossCheck24

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

He's taking a very narrow minded look at the Wings games.

1. The Wings have had ZERO competition in the regular season, how the hell are we supposed to have passionate regular season games if almost every single team we play against is a push over? Hell, we routinely take off the first 2 periods just to play hard for 15-20 minutes and get our 2 points.

2) About the Joe having empty seats, like, OMG! Every arena has empty seats these days, the Joe is no exception.

3) It's nothing new that Wings fans have had the mentality of waiting for the playoffs to come around to get passionate, I'm not that way, but I can see why it is. Adding Bertuzzi helps and re-signing him would probably help a little more.

4) Losing guys like Yzerman and Shanahan is going to hurt ANY team, Yzerman was our passion, he was our emotion. It's going to take a few years to adjust.

1. I wouldn't say all the games are passionless, but I definitely see what you are saying. The team is going through the motions for better/worse before the postseason starts.

2. Fully agree. Corporation thingy unfortunately that has been talked about ad naseum in here, no need to go through it again.

3. Fully agree as well, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It just means that fans have known that the Wings will usually put a good product out there (in terms of these last 10 years roughly) and while they want the WIngs to win the game obviously, they aren't going to go bonkers over 1 loss in the regular season over 80+ games when you know you're team is going to be in the playoffs in all likelihood.

4. Agree as well.

So, in terms of players/fans with passion.

If the players aren't playing with a whole lot of passion right now, I'm not going to say that they should do it now, b/c if they don't it'll come back and bite them in the a** in the playoffs. A lot of the Wings are experienced enough to know what playing in the postseason is al about, they know when it's time to be desperate, etc.

For fans showing emotion, see #3. The corporation thing sucks again, but what can you do. They pay money to the Red Wings business, Illitch and company would be foolish to just reject the money (even though they are probably loaded off their rear) because they might not be into the games as much. You own a business to make money, so......

As for me personally, I'm kinda in the same boat in #3. I don't get too emotional or passionate b/c I know the Wings will probably play in the playoffs, I'm that way with all sports I watch (whether they are successful or not). I don't yell or scream or get rowdy that much, I'm not a cheerleader, I don't constantly scream at my TV. I rarely miss games though b/c I like to watch Wings games or my other sports teams. Just because I'm not into the games as much mentally/emotionally doesn't make me any less/worse of a fan.

[scotzman 29]

I COMPLETELY agree. Ive been to an Oilers game and the Kings game last night so far this year and BOTH games, because they were close and competitive, were very emotional in terms of the audience.

...and in case anyone doesnt know, DON CHERRY IS PRO CANADIAN EVERYTHING. Hes pushing Staal for rookie of the year over Malkin. Staal's having a great year, but Malkin is the clear-cut winner hands down. This is coming from the SAME guy that thinks Nick Lidstrom ISN'T one of the best defenseman in the league because he doesnt HIT enough.

In any academic realm, Cherry would be termed a racist. The Red Wings have a predominantly European team and (surprise) they're still doing well. He completely overlooks the fact that ALL of Detroits biggest hitters - Kronwall, Markov, and Franzen - are (surprise again) ALL European players.

Now, do I agree that the Wings need more edge? Absolutely. Would it be nice to see more fights and harder-hitting? Hell yes. But he acts like the Wings are a soft team because Ken Holland wants it that way. He completely forgot what happened when the salary cap came in: players with cap unfriendly salaries were cut loose. And who was cut loose????? MCCARTY and HATCHER. Is it because Holland hates grit and north americans or is it because its not logical to tie up 7.5 million in two guys who arent even suited for the new league??

Its great and all that Cherry thinks their should be more physicality on the Wings and in the league in general - I AGREE -but picking on the Wings for trying to assemble a competitive team after cutting their salary IN HALF and doing it at a time when Zetterberg, Cleary, Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Markov, and Kopecky - most of which are emotional, hard-nosed players nonetheless - says a lot about Cherry's agenda.

I don't remember hearing him make one comment about the Euro's on our team... Secondly, are you seriously trying to tell me that Markov and Franzen have thrown any big hits? Can you link me to some video on YouTube of their amazing hits, because I'm sure they made a hilight reel of some kind? While I think Markov and Franzen are tough, Chelios has thrown bigger hits than those two.

As for Mac and Hatcher... both of them are not really suited for the new NHL... but, there are players with grit and tenacity who fit in the league and fire up their respective teams and the crowd. Right now, the only person that we have who SOMETIMES throws a good check is Kronwall. Not even Maltby hits anymore...

Edited March 11, 2007 by scotzman

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I dont think anyone will find it surprising i agree with Cherry on 99.3% of the things he says! This being another one. Whoever said the blue collar comment was right. The one game i went to this year, the loudest cheer aside from a goal came from a nothing scrum. I mean, doesnt tell you how starved the fans are for some physical hockey? Im not gonna say every game i see is boring, but unfortunately most of them are. I remember the days where i used to record Wings' games when i wasnt home...now i wouldnt even think of it. Just not enough passion and physical play for me. Im hoping Bertuzzi can inject some life and maybe Bootland will stick around for a while.

The Red Wings have a predominantly European team and (surprise) they're still doing well. He completely overlooks the fact that ALL of Detroits biggest hitters - Kronwall, Markov, and Franzen - are (surprise again) ALL European players.

Well, i think this part would feed Cherry's side of the argument. Aside from Kronwall, no one else would be deemed a hitter. And even in Kronwall's case, i wish he would do a little more than just look for that one big hit.

But he acts like the Wings are a soft team because Ken Holland wants it that way.

Actually, ive thought for quite some time that he DOES want it that way. I feel like any time the Wings have added a physical player its like its some sort of concession on his part. He's definitely finesse oriented.

Edited March 11, 2007 by Lou_Siffer

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

has the wing's sellout streak ended????

[Rice 42]

Secondly, are you seriously trying to tell me that Markov and Franzen have thrown any big hits? Can you link me to some video on YouTube of their amazing hits, because I'm sure they made a hilight reel of some kind? While I think Markov and Franzen are tough, Chelios has thrown bigger hits than those two.

Considering you missed that, which was probably a top three goal in the league this year, I'm sure you've missed a few other hits Markov and Franzen have thrown. There have been some nice ones.

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

has the wing's sellout streak ended????

No

[dadair 0]

Oh and another thing....lower the costs of the fricken tickets and maybe the attendance will go up. You pay 44 bucks for decents seats for 3 periods of play. Hell i can go to 4 tigers games for he same price. Prices are just ridiculous especially with the decreasing economy around here. I hate how sports have become all about profit and less about the actual game...

That's a moot point as every game is sold out. Even if there are tickets available through Ticketmaster in advance, they're gone before the game starts. If they were only selling 12,000 tickets you could make the argument that the ticket prices are too high. The fact that people have tickets and aren't going is more troubling even with the team near the top of the standings. It's along the lines of the Atlanta Braves. They won the NL East 13 consecutive years and you could get a walk-up ticket to a playoff game. It's about expectations at this point, the Wings will be in the playoffs and the regular season is meaningless.

[RedRum #1 0]

Let's keep it real for a second....if this team was full of grit and toughness, but only played .500 or so hockey with a Conference Final appearance thrown in every 4 or 5 years the Joe STILL would have empty seats all over the place. Honestly, do you think "blue collar" cities like Philly or Boston wouldnt kill for Detroit's style of play if it brought them 3 Cups and all the winning and success we've had? Fans have become spoiled by the Wings winning. They've been the winningest team in the league for well over a decade, they're a motral lock for the playoffs every season. So in turn fans take that for granted. It's happens to every franchise that has dominated for an extended period. I mean, the Atlanta Braves had trouble selling out 1st round playoff games for goodness sake!

[Kp-Wings 3]

Like YoungGuns already said, Don Cherry is pro canadian everything. He doesn't like the Wings because their European. I remember about 2 weeks ago he actually made a duragatory comment about Zetterberg just because he's not a canadian. Zetterberg is probably about as good as any canadian you throw at him. While some things that Cherry said are true, like not enough grit, his solution would be the Calgary Flames goon squad of 2004. I know how much he likes McCarty, but McCarty is awful now, and hasn't played a game in months.

Point being, I take really don't take anything into consideration for what he says, because he's so biased. If he had to pick McCarty or Krzysztof Oliwa as a fighter, he'd pick McCarty simply for the sake of being canadian. I agree with him in the sense that the Wings need grit, but his solution would be someone like McCarty that can't keep up anymore or someone else that purely fights and does nothing else.

[BlueMonk 102]

But don't you also agree that passion also comes from competition? We could be a very heavy hitting team and have tough physical games against St. Louis, Columbus and Chicago every time, but if we win 95% of the time and do it easily, I don't think it would make a difference. I don't care if we have the Calgary Flames of 2004 lineup or have the hardest working team in the league, if the other team sucks, you're not going to be as passionate as you would be if the other team were good.

I'm also not sure how you could say Wings games are boring, every Preds game has been entertaining but like I said, too many games are too easy for the Wings. Did you think the playoff series last year was boring?

Competition is huge, but I don't think the kind of competition the fans crave comes just from two evenly matched teams. You need something extra. The Colorado rivalry was a perfect example. That kind of hatred breeds from hits and fights and physical play. Just watching two teams stickhandling isn't going to bring out the passion from the fans. It's pretty to watch, but it's not going to really fire up the fan bases of the teams.

[Chairman Maouth 97]

2) About the Joe having empty seats, like, OMG! Every arena has empty seats these days, the Joe is no exception.

Actually, no.

Vancouver has a streak of sellouts and full seats that goes back many years now. I'm pretty sure Calgary and Toronto are the same. Probably Edmonton too, even at this stage of their season.

And I think Cherry's point was that in "Hockeytown, USA", he's disappointed that there isn't more interest in the game.

Edited March 11, 2007 by One of the Few