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#1 TimeBinder

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 07:28 AM

Where's the great offensive upside that was promised, besides the occasional big hit, i'm not seeing the 2nd coming of our next hof'er dman. A lot of hype and accolades on paper but not on the ice. I understand he's still young but not seeing that glimmer of great potential. Unless he hits someone it seems he just fades into the background. Lebda has surpassed him just with his speed alone. thoughts or am i just missing something - he got money with long term deal, but based on what? "potential" - sorry just not seeing it, hope i'm wrong.
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#2 GuloGulo

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 07:36 AM

He be a big game player.
Watch in the playoffs.

...

However his current play is inexcusable. If I was Babs I'd try put him with #5 until Markov comes back, or demote him back to pair with Lebda like last season.
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#3 TimeBinder

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 07:40 AM

QUOTE(GuloGulo @ March 13, 2007 - 07:36AM) View Post

He be a big game player.
Watch in the playoffs.

...

However his current play is inexcusable. If I was Babs I'd try put him with #5 until Markov comes back, or demote him back to pair with Lebda like last season.

I'd take or deal with a mediacore performance in reg season
if he steps it up in the playoffs and makes an impact
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#4 Zion

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:01 AM

Agreed, and he's still young and injury-prone... needs some more time.
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#5 GordieSid&Ted

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:05 AM

QUOTE(TimeBinder @ March 13, 2007 - 07:28AM) View Post

Where's the great offensive upside that was promised, besides the occasional big hit, i'm not seeing the 2nd coming of our next hof'er dman. A lot of hype and accolades on paper but not on the ice. I understand he's still young but not seeing that glimmer of great potential. Unless he hits someone it seems he just fades into the background. Lebda has surpassed him just with his speed alone. thoughts or am i just missing something - he got money with long term deal, but based on what? "potential" - sorry just not seeing it, hope i'm wrong.



Wasn't he voted the AHL's top defenseman? I think he posted the most points for d-men as well. Anyway, things i've noticed are his shot and his ability to make plays from the blue line in the offensive zone. He doesn't walk the puck like Nick does and he doesn't have the same patience as Nick but then again who does. That may come with time.

Also, when you have Nick Lidstrom and Matt Schneider you are going to play second fiddle offensively for awhile.

I fully expect him to make great strides next season, especially if Schneider is gone.


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#6 interminded

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:16 AM


We make the hype, by acting like he's the next Bobby Orr.
Let him develop into a good defenseman.
He's still young and has a lot to learn.



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#7 GuloGulo

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:28 AM

I agree that the contract isn't justified by his play this season.
He's not playing 3M hockey.

But then, that's perhaps a reason contracts should be kept from the public in the future. A lot of whining about players is related to their compensation.
IF we didn't know Lang cost ~4M, would we rag so much about him? If we didn't know Chelios was making league minimum, would we have as much patience?

This isn't a huge deal with the current Red Wings, but reading other fan boards really makes you think... think about Theodore for instance. If nobody knew his contract, would anybody really care about him losing his starting job?

A tad OT, I know.
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#8 interminded

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:32 AM

QUOTE(GuloGulo @ March 13, 2007 - 08:28AM) View Post

I agree that the contract isn't justified by his play this season.
He's not playing 3M hockey.

But then, that's perhaps a reason contracts should be kept from the public in the future. A lot of whining about players is related to their compensation.
IF we didn't know Lang cost ~4M, would we rag so much about him? If we didn't know Chelios was making league minimum, would we have as much patience?

This isn't a huge deal with the current Red Wings, but reading other fan boards really makes you think... think about Theodore for instance. If nobody knew his contract, would anybody really care about him losing his starting job?

A tad OT, I know.


You're absolutely right.

But isn't that always the point We judge players according to their salary.
If Alexei Yashin would make 850.000 a year, nobody would give s*** about him.

I guess that brings a lot of pressure for young players who do make a considerable amount of money.

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#9 maltbymaniac

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:50 AM

i dont know if i was the only one to see him last game but damn,he was fumbling the puck all over the place......ps take the damn cage off your face(i know he was injured but its gotta be healed up by now) right?

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#10 Bender

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:57 AM

Kronwall - eh, I'm not really impressed (yet) and I do think that he is being overpaid right now. However, that's not to say he won't be earning it after he gains some more experience. The investment may pay off in the long run, but for now he still has a lot to prove.

As for knowing about player salaries in general, I don't see what the big deal is. It's fun to play GM and criticize players performance based on their pay scale somtimes, but it's not my money and I am aware of the fact that I do not know the whole story so I say that as long as the teams are willing to pay for "potential" then good for the players who can get paid while the getting is good.
OTOH, when pro athletes get lazy and start to suck after they are awarded a big contract, there could be some accountability (in the form of performance based incentives or penalties) when they don't play up to their potential.
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#11 interminded

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 09:02 AM

QUOTE(maltbymaniac @ March 13, 2007 - 08:50AM) View Post

ps take the damn cage off your face(i know he was injured but its gotta be healed up by now) right?


Of course it's healed.
He wears the mask cause it's so much fun !!!

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#12 GoalieManPat

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 09:26 AM

Its his first full season with the big club. Give him time. All the time hes spending with Nick, Chelli, and Schneids is gonna pay off on the long run. I think he has also been hurt offensive wise because the wings have basically been a 1 line offensive team the whole year.

#13 Kp-Wings

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 09:27 AM

The injury to his face was over 2 months ago. Surely by now it should have healed.

I think he has a hard time seeing with that thing on. Either that, or he's just naturally that bad of a decision maker when it comes to handling the puck. He must lead, or be close, to leading the team in turnovers. That gem on Fridays game against LA was pretty bad.

#14 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 09:52 AM

It's been a couple weeks since we've had one of these threads.

Because of his injuries, this is Kronwall's first full season with the team. Think about that. It seems like he's been around a while, but this is seriously the first time he's ever played more than 30 games at the NHL level in one season.

He has a lot of skills you can't teach. I've seen him make some great moves on the blueline to hold the puck in offensively. He can move the puck well. And then there's his hitting. He keeps guys honest by hitting them at the blueline.

All that being said, he hasn't put it together quite yet. He needs to pick his spots better. Hopefully he will in time.

But in the new salary cap era, good defenseman come at a premium. The Wings are much better off developing this kid than spending the money and resources it would take to bring in a defenseman who's as good or better than Kronwall.



#15 SoupGuru

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 12:03 PM

How much time do we give him to come around? How much time do we spend to "develop" him?

Quite frankly, Kronwall's big problem is that Lebda is on the same team. Lebda has even less experience than Kronwall but has developed 10x as fast and over the course of a year has become a very reliable defenseman. This makes it seem crazy that we should be giving Kronwall breaks because he needs more time and experience. With Lebda, you can see his development - but I swear Kronwall makes the same boneheaded mistakes he's been making all year.

As I've said before, we have lots of player that need time to develop and need to gain experience. You'll find all those guys in the minors until they can contribute at the NHL level.

#16 Crymson

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 12:04 PM

QUOTE(TimeBinder @ March 13, 2007 - 05:28AM) View Post

Where's the great offensive upside that was promised, besides the occasional big hit, i'm not seeing the 2nd coming of our next hof'er dman. A lot of hype and accolades on paper but not on the ice. I understand he's still young but not seeing that glimmer of great potential. Unless he hits someone it seems he just fades into the background. Lebda has surpassed him just with his speed alone. thoughts or am i just missing something - he got money with long term deal, but based on what? "potential" - sorry just not seeing it, hope i'm wrong.


I don't think Kronnic has had a great deal of time to develop. He's hardly played a full season yet. In addition, I don't think Kronwall would have drawn such a big contract had the management not seen great potential in him. Give him a chance!

#17 Heaton

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 12:06 PM

QUOTE(SoupGuru @ March 13, 2007 - 01:03PM) View Post

How much time do we give him to come around? How much time do we spend to "develop" him?

Quite frankly, Kronwall's big problem is that Lebda is on the same team. Lebda has even less experience than Kronwall but has developed 10x as fast and over the course of a year has become a very reliable defenseman. This makes it seem crazy that we should be giving Kronwall breaks because he needs more time and experience. With Lebda, you can see his development - but I swear Kronwall makes the same boneheaded mistakes he's been making all year.

As I've said before, we have lots of player that need time to develop and need to gain experience. You'll find all those guys in the minors until they can contribute at the NHL level.


And Lebda has devolved into a reliable #5 defensemen who pretty much will only play 5 on 5 and limited PP time.

Nothing wrong with that, but there's a reason why Kronwall plays 6 minutes more every game, and in every situation. He's obviously not reached his peak yet, but he hasn't been awful by any means. The people who believe he's playing horribly are the same ones who bought into the "Nik jr." bulls***.

Newsflash, he isn't going to be anything like Lidstrom.
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#18 Crymson

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 12:11 PM

QUOTE(Heaton @ March 13, 2007 - 10:06AM) View Post

And Lebda has devolved into a reliable #5 defensemen who pretty much will only play 5 on 5 and limited PP time.

Nothing wrong with that, but there's a reason why Kronwall plays 6 minutes more every game, and in every situation. He's obviously not reached his peak yet, but he hasn't been awful by any means. The people who believe he's playing horribly are the same ones who bought into the "Nik jr." bulls***.

Newsflash, he isn't going to be anything like Lidstrom.


I don't think there's any reason to draw this sort of judgment.

#19 SoupGuru

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 12:15 PM

QUOTE(Heaton @ March 13, 2007 - 10:06AM) View Post

...there's a reason why Kronwall plays 6 minutes more every game, and in every situation.


Is there also a reason why Lebda is 7th on the team in +/- and Kronwall is 25th?

No, I'll just give you my opinion: Lebda is twice the defenseman that Kronwall is now and will still be the better defenseman 5 or 10 years from now. I'm not saying that because I think Lebda is so good but more because I think Kronwall is so bad. Maybe I'm wrong and I hope I am.

Kronwall might have great skill and ability but his problem is he's not smart enough to play in the NHL. He makes bad plays. Over and over and over. If I saw any indication that he's learned something this past year I might change my opinion but he's still making those same bad plays. He has to make the simple play over and over and over.


#20 Heaton

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 12:22 PM

QUOTE(SoupGuru @ March 13, 2007 - 01:15PM) View Post

Is there also a reason why Lebda is 7th on the team in +/- and Kronwall is 25th?

No, I'll just give you my opinion: Lebda is twice the defenseman that Kronwall is now and will still be the better defenseman 5 or 10 years from now. I'm not saying that because I think Lebda is so good but more because I think Kronwall is so bad. Maybe I'm wrong and I hope I am.

Kronwall might have great skill and ability but his problem is he's not smart enough to play in the NHL. He makes bad plays. Over and over and over. If I saw any indication that he's learned something this past year I might change my opinion but he's still making those same bad plays. He has to make the simple play over and over and over.


Lebda also has the luxury of playing against the opponents 3rd and 4th line more.

Look, I'm not going to convince you of anything, but the best indication of how good Kronwall can be is going back and looking at the games when Schneider was out. Schneider is dragging down Kronwall by being his partner, Lebda has a partner who is the best American player to play in the NHL ever.

I'm not sitting here and saying Kronwall has been fantastic this year, because he hasn't, but to say, after 1 year that Kronwall is not smart enough to play in the NHL? It's really hard to take you seriously.

When Kronwall first game up he was fantastic, when Kronwall came back from his injury last year he was playing very well, and into the playoffs he played VERY well. This is an off year, obviously, but his first year playing 20+ minutes every night. This is just the tip of the iceberg.


Edited by Heaton, 13 March 2007 - 12:24 PM.

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