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#41 datsyukismyfriend

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 03:57 PM

kronwall's main problem is that he thinks he's more talented than he is, that or he doesn't respect the talent of the players he faces. he rushes the puck when he should stay back and be sound possitionally, he tries to set up plays that are picked off easily when he should just make the simple pass, he goes for the "big hit" when he should be sitting back. i do see his talent. but unfortunately he isn't able to put it together. also, he is injury prone, which sucks.

i haven't been impressed with him much at all this season. he should be laying back and learning the ropes instead of trying to make the big plays because at this juncture he is much more of a liability than an asset when he's trying to make the big plays. that's the main reason lebda (well, that and his speed) has been, imo, a better d-man this year. lebda's improved throughout the year and has taken time and learned from the old guys. kronwall hasn't improved this year, imo. anyway, that's my two cents.
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#42 Sepster

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 04:09 PM

QUOTE
Again, I go back to Wallin as an example. He had injury problems, and wasn't very good in his first season here. So why did we not cut any slack for him but we do for Kronwall?


Wallin was never voted the AHL's Top Defensemen (during a lockout when he would have been playing against more NHL quality players, as Kronwall has) nor was he selected as the Tournament MVP on a Gold-Medal winnig World Championship team.

I think that along with the fact that Kronwall is a much better skater/passer/hitter than Wallin could have hoped to have been might be why the Wings are giving him a little more time than Wallin.

Plus Wallin was projected as a stay-at-home 5th or 6th defensive defensmen - those are much easier to come by than a "potential" top 2-pairing.

And while I agree that Kronwall has looked like he has hit a plateau the past month or so, I find the comparisons to Wallin to be a little ridiculous.

Edited by Sepster, 13 March 2007 - 04:09 PM.


#43 Kp-Wings

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 04:34 PM

QUOTE(Sepster @ March 13, 2007 - 04:09PM) View Post

Wallin was never voted the AHL's Top Defensemen (during a lockout when he would have been playing against more NHL quality players, as Kronwall has) nor was he selected as the Tournament MVP on a Gold-Medal winnig World Championship team.

I think that along with the fact that Kronwall is a much better skater/passer/hitter than Wallin could have hoped to have been might be why the Wings are giving him a little more time than Wallin.

Plus Wallin was projected as a stay-at-home 5th or 6th defensive defensmen - those are much easier to come by than a "potential" top 2-pairing.

And while I agree that Kronwall has looked like he has hit a plateau the past month or so, I find the comparisons to Wallin to be a little ridiculous.

Whatever. rolleyes.gif

#44 Sepster

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 04:53 PM

Ha Ha, yes, "Whatever rolleyes.gif ." Nicely put.

Edited by Sepster, 13 March 2007 - 04:53 PM.


#45 TimeBinder

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 05:14 PM

He has to wear the mask longer because the injury was not a superficial laceration. The lac invovled deeper tissues ? cartilage that takes longer to heal and increase the risk of reopening if trauma to area happened again. AHL trpohies don't mean squat - this is the NHL; not the minors. He needs to be taken down a notch/demoted - give him to Chedli. Grandpa can help him.
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#46 Kp-Wings

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE(Sepster @ March 13, 2007 - 04:53PM) View Post

Ha Ha, yes, "Whatever rolleyes.gif ." Nicely put.

I was joking. I believe what you said.

Don't take it so seriously.

#47 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 05:55 PM

QUOTE(Kp-Wings @ March 13, 2007 - 01:14PM) View Post

Why should it be a valid argument? Again, I go back to Wallin as an example. He had injury problems, and wasn't very good in his first season here. So why did we not cut any slack for him but we do for Kronwall?

Granted, Wallin only played 32 games, but it's still the same situation. Why cut Kronwall slack? Because of what he did in the AHL and in international tournaments? Those are different leagues all together.

I also want to say this: somebody needs to do something about Kronwalls horrendous play, especially over the last few games. I suggest benching him. He deserves it.

What does Kronwall have to do with Wallin?

I don't care what Kronwall did in the AHL either.

I think calling his play horrendous is a bit of an overstatement. The Wings were poor defensively as a team the last few games. Kronwall was no better.

He's not the Lilja-like defenseman people in this thread are making him out to be. And the comparisons to Lebda are apples to oranges. Give Lebda 6 more minutes a game and put him against the better lines and see what his numbers look like.

And to correct something that has been misstated several times in this thread, Kronwall is not making $3 million a year. He currently makes $1.14 million, and is worth that amount of money. Next season he makes 1.5, then it jumps up to $3 million in 2008/09.

So he's still got all of next year, then at the start of the 2008/09 season people can accurately start complaining that he's not worth $3 million.

Like I said before, he's got the skills but he hasn't put it all together yet. I think the Wings are smart in locking him up long term because if he lives up to his potential, Kronwall will be a bargain compared to what it would cost to bring in someone of equal value to the team.




#48 Kp-Wings

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 06:04 PM

QUOTE(haroldsnepsts @ March 13, 2007 - 05:55PM) View Post

He's not the Lilja-like defenseman people in this thread are making him out to be. And the comparisons to Lebda are apples to oranges. Give Lebda 6 more minutes a game and put him against the better lines and see what his numbers look like.

Are you not noticeing the givaways he makes? In this recent stretch, he's looking more and more like Lilja.

Ok, Kronwall doens't turtle like Lilja. And he is (somewhat) more physical. But come on. Just watch him closely. Many of his attempted passes out of the zone usually result in a turnover. He has yet to do anything to really impress me.

And where is this offense that people speak of? ONE GOAL. Right now, he's on pace to have less goals than Lilja did last year. And even though Lilja did play all 82 games, does that really matter in his case?

#49 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE(Kp-Wings @ March 13, 2007 - 04:04PM) View Post

Are you not noticeing the givaways he makes? In this recent stretch, he's looking more and more like Lilja.

Ok, Kronwall doens't turtle like Lilja. And he is (somewhat) more physical. But come on. Just watch him closely. Many of his attempted passes out of the zone usually result in a turnover. He has yet to do anything to really impress me.

And where is this offense that people speak of? ONE GOAL. Right now, he's on pace to have less goals than Lilja did last year. And even though Lilja did play all 82 games, does that really matter in his case?

I see the giveaways, but he's still nowhere near Lilja.

I try not to complain about Lilja because he's already such the whipping boy around here, but every game I see he makes a startlingly bad play. A giveaway at the blueline that leads to a breakaway. Taking a horrible penalty. Looking lost out there.

Kronwall is nowhere near Lilja.

I never said anything about Kronwall's offense, other than his potential.

All I can say is this one last time:

It's his first full season in the NHL (he's played a career 106 games).
He makes $1.14 million (compared to Lilja's $1 mill).
He has the potential to be a great defenseman for the Wings for years to come.

In the salary cap era, I think they did the right thing in locking him up long term and hoping he meets his potential.

With Fischer gone, the only defensemen they have under 30 years old are Lebda and Kronner. Who's going to fill the ice time of Chelios (45), Lidstrom(36), and Schneider(37) when they retire or aren't re-signed? It'd cost too much to replace all those guys by bringing players in from other teams. Have you seen what a solid d-man usually goes for?




#50 Kp-Wings

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 06:50 PM

QUOTE(haroldsnepsts @ March 13, 2007 - 06:17PM) View Post

I see the giveaways, but he's still nowhere near Lilja.

I try not to complain about Lilja because he's already such the whipping boy around here, but every game I see he makes a startlingly bad play. A giveaway at the blueline that leads to a breakaway. Taking a horrible penalty. Looking lost out there.

Kronwall is nowhere near Lilja.

I never said anything about Kronwall's offense, other than his potential.

All I can say is this one last time:

It's his first full season in the NHL (he's played a career 106 games).
He makes $1.14 million (compared to Lilja's $1 mill).
He has the potential to be a great defenseman for the Wings for years to come.

In the salary cap era, I think they did the right thing in locking him up long term and hoping he meets his potential.

With Fischer gone, the only defensemen they have under 30 years old are Lebda and Kronner. Who's going to fill the ice time of Chelios (45), Lidstrom(36), and Schneider(37) when they retire or aren't re-signed? It'd cost too much to replace all those guys by bringing players in from other teams. Have you seen what a solid d-man usually goes for?

Fine. You have a point.

#51 SoupGuru

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 11:13 AM

During that Nashville game, I couldn't count how many times Kronwall was out of position or put himself out of position by trying to check the puck carrier only to have him slip by... causing Kronwall to play catch-up and hook and grab or have a teammate bail him out.

#52 Heaton

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 11:29 AM

And he still managed to play 19 mins, be a +2, get 2 shots on goal and add an assist.
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#53 Hank

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 11:42 AM

QUOTE(toby91_ca @ March 13, 2007 - 02:15PM) View Post

Wait a minute though. If you are comparing his development to someone like Pronger (I know you are not making that direct comparison, but let's pretend), when Pronger was Kronwall's age, didn't he already have a Hart, Norris and 2 plus/minus awards under his belt?

There should come a point in time where he is no longer a young guy that we just need to give him time to see how he develops. I am not saying that is now, I know he has barely played a full season in the NHL (actually hasn't yet). To be honest, at 26 years old now, the fact that this is his first full season in the NHL is a bit of a concern to me.

I am definately not trying to knock him or write him off, but I am certainly not yet sold on him being a star in the future. He certainly is not worth his contract right now and obviously management is banking on the contract being a bargain in the long run, we'll have to wait and see how things go.


I understand your point. But like you said, Pronger had a lot more games under his belt by 26 than Kronwall.

Look at Jay Bowemeester. He's been in the league for a few seasons now but he hasn't developed into Scott Neidermeyer like so many thought he would. But I wouldn't right him off yet either.

Give Kroner time. He'll be worth the wait.

#54 toby91_ca

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 12:01 PM

QUOTE(Hank @ March 14, 2007 - 11:42AM) View Post

I understand your point. But like you said, Pronger had a lot more games under his belt by 26 than Kronwall.

Look at Jay Bowemeester. He's been in the league for a few seasons now but he hasn't developed into Scott Neidermeyer like so many thought he would. But I wouldn't right him off yet either.

Give Kroner time. He'll be worth the wait.

Yes, but Bouwmeester is already further ahead and is almost 3 years younger than Kronwall.

#55 Kp-Wings

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 02:19 PM

QUOTE(Heaton @ March 14, 2007 - 11:29AM) View Post

And he still managed to play 19 mins, be a +2, get 2 shots on goal and add an assist.

Is Kronwall your favorite player?

By the way, I'd take Bouwmeester in a heartbeat over Kronwall.

Edited by Kp-Wings, 14 March 2007 - 02:19 PM.


#56 Heaton

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 03:14 PM

QUOTE(Kp-Wings @ March 14, 2007 - 02:19PM) View Post

Is Kronwall your favorite player?

By the way, I'd take Bouwmeester in a heartbeat over Kronwall.


One of my favorites, and who wouldn't? I'd take Phaneuf and Weber over him too, I'm sure there's more young defensemen out there better than Kronwall.
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